Why didn't the stormlight heal Kaladin's scars?

[+eveorjoy]

Okay so if stormlight could give Renarin 20/20 vision, why didn't it heal Kaladin's scars?

 

The characters seem to be wondering this question. I think Kaladin and Shallan each think about it at different points in the book.

 

Does it have something to do with how Kaladin perceives himself? Do you think he will heal from them before the end of his overall story arc? Why do you think he still has them?

[Bremen]

I think it is entirely how Kaladin perceives himself.

 

I wonder what would happen if Kaladin became convinced he was a stick while holding stormlight.

[Bobobagins]

I'm a STICK!!!!!!

He's a STICK....

Odeam Wins K.O.

[+eveorjoy]

But he seems to have gotten over his slavery in WoR, or at least I hope he has. I had no issues with his darkness in WoR. He needed to deal with being enslaved and betrayed when a finally had control of his life again before moving on. I found his character arc quite compelling and believable in WoR. However he is a Knight Radiant now, or at least the closest thing to one on Roshar. Shouldn't he be past seeing himself as a slave?

 

If so then why does he still have the scars?

[Aleksiel]

I think healing with stormlight is tight to the spiritual realm (Shardblade cuts the soul and Kal healed that). So, if the scars are part of how he sees himself, that is more of a Cognitive realm; remember Spiritual realm is about the soul. Perhaps the slave brands are scars of his mind and they will remain until he's able to truly perceive and believe himself a free man; because stormlight heals on spiritual and not cognitive level.

[Hilda]

I actually expected the scar to disappear with the healing of the cut-by-ShardBlade-arm.

This latter is a bigger feat the the former, no?

I was shocked as he lost the arm. I was so sure nothing could ever heal a ShardBlade-dead limb.

I even thought his character was gonna deal with one-arm life for the rest of the saga.

That would have been the greatest twist...

But in a moment he was healthy again.

Ok, more easy to go on eight book and a half this way.

But the scar is still there.

[Cayden]

I dont think it will heal until his issues with Amaram are resolved, either Amaram dies or is redeemed/put to justice. Until then its an unresolved issue and I just dont think Kaladin can get past it.

 

Even with this 3rd ideal, Amaram is not protected by that in anyway shape or form. Elhokar deserved protecting, Amaram does not. And I doubt that the 4th ideal will be anything to bar him killing Amaram either. I suspect the 4th will be something about leadership. Which will tie in with Elhokar asking him to train him. and the fact that Jezrien was the one who taught people to lead.

 

So no I really dont think this will get healed until Kaladins mental scars are healed.

[weebojello]

I dont think it will heal until his issues with Amaram are resolved, either Amaram dies or is redeemed/put to justice. Until then its an unresolved issue and I just dont think Kaladin can get past it.

 

Even with this 3rd ideal, Amaram is not protected by that in anyway shape or form. Elhokar deserved protecting, Amaram does not. And I doubt that the 4th ideal will be anything to bar him killing Amaram either. I suspect the 4th will be something about leadership. Which will tie in with Elhokar asking him to train him. and the fact that Jezrien was the one who taught people to lead.

 

So no I really dont think this will get healed until Kaladins mental scars are healed.

I think that's a really great way of looking at it, and I've been thinking along the same lines. I think the conflict / 4th ideal for him to overcome will be met in Alethkar when he goes back to Hearthstone....perhaps after that he might be healed. There's enough conflict left for him to eventually heal to the person he needs to be.

[The Count]

Even with this 3rd ideal, Amaram is not protected by that in anyway shape or form. Elhokar deserved protecting, Amaram does not. And I doubt that the 4th ideal will be anything to bar him killing Amaram either. I suspect the 4th will be something about leadership. Which will tie in with Elhokar asking him to train him. and the fact that Jezrien was the one who taught people to lead.

 

Disagree with this.

I think the whole point of Kaladin's third ideal is that he does not get to choose who is worth of saving.

If Amaram needs protecting and Kaladin is around then he would break his oaths if he did not protect even Meridas Amaran (even though he is a certified This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the ruleshole).

Everyone is someone's Tien.

Edited March 12, 2014 by The Count

[Delightful]

He will protect those he hates "if it is right." With Amaram, that would depend a whole lot on the situation. Though I would hate to see Kal having to protect Amaram.

 

Aside from the tattoo scene, he never thinks about his scars, so maybe they don't bother him therefore Stormlight doesn't heal them?

[dionysus]

His slavery is part of his past and his identity. Even if he comes to complete peace about his past, I do not think they will heal. For them to heal I would think he would have to do something unhealthy, like repress his past or deny the parts of his personality influenced by those events.

[Sphinx]

I've read on these forums that stormlight heals to where you believe yourself to be. Unfortunately I don't know where that statement comes from, but I find it believable.

 

While Kaladin is still making progress on his issues, his reactions to Bridge 4 wanting to stay Bridge 4 with the tattooing, and his vehement disbelief of the idea that he is now a lighteyes, suggest that his mentality is still conflicted over his own identity as a slave. His stormlight heals the tattoo of freedom, rather than the scars of his slavery. The shash brand of violence still seems very much part of his identity, with his constant focus on using violence to protect.

 

I'm actually more surprised that Renarin healed his eyesight, than that Kaladin hasn't healed his scars. I wish we'd gotten some Renarin viewpoint, as he also seems to be struggling with identity issues and trying to be the revered and admired warrior while he fears his own insanity. Healing his eyesight seems to indicate a trust in his vision and identity as a clear-sighted warrior that I wouldn't have expected from his other actions. Or maybe I'm just reading way too much into it.

[+eveorjoy]

He will protect those he hates "if it is right." With Amaram, that would depend a whole lot on the situation. Though I would hate to see Kal having to protect Amaram.

 

Aside from the tattoo scene, he never thinks about his scars, so maybe they don't bother him therefore Stormlight doesn't heal them?

 

Actually he thinks about the scars several other times in WoR.

 

 

“To other men, yes,” Kaladin said, raising his hand, feeling the scars on his forehead. Why had the Stormlight never healed those?

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 471). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

 

“That was a joke, bridgeboy.”

“My mistake. I was under the impression that jokes were supposed to be funny.”

“Only to people with a sense of humor.”

“Ah, of course,” Kaladin said. “I traded in my sense of humor long ago.”

“And what did you get for it?”

“Scars,” Kaladin said softly.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (pp. 636-637). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

 

“They’d need more slaves,” Kaladin said, contemplative . “A lot of honest men might find themselves with brands.”

“Still sore about what happened to you, I assume.”

“Wouldn’t you be?”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 837). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

[darkanimereal1]

But he seems to have gotten over his slavery in WoR, or at least I hope he has. I had no issues with his darkness in WoR. He needed to deal with being enslaved and betrayed when a finally had control of his life again before moving on. I found his character arc quite compelling and believable in WoR. However he is a Knight Radiant now, or at least the closest thing to one on Roshar. Shouldn't he be past seeing himself as a slave?

 

If so then why does he still have the scars?

 

Actually, I think it has less to do with the slavery and more to do with why he became a slave. He because a slave because he was unable to protect people. We know that this, more than anything, is what kills Kaladin. He constantly beats himself up over it (Shallan makes a comment about it and he agrees, noting his father used to say the same thing--however, it's just a part of him that he can't change). Actually, I think I just made my point in the parentheses (by accident). The fact that Kaladin holds himself ultimately responsible for the deaths of everyone he should have been able to protect is a part of him that can't change. The scars are a symbol of that, and until he is able to either 1) change that part of himself or 2) finally come to terms that he can only do the best that he is able, I think he'll be stuck with the scars.

 

His slavery is part of his past and his identity. Even if he comes to complete peace about his past, I do not think they will heal. For them to heal I would think he would have to do something unhealthy, like repress his past or deny the parts of his personality influenced by those events.

 

Actually, this sounds more to me like something Shallan would do. Shallan hides from her past, while Kaladin constantly brutalizes/tortures himself with his own past. I don't think repressing his past would heal him--he needs to come to terms with it.

 

I've read on these forums that stormlight heals to where you believe yourself to be. Unfortunately I don't know where that statement comes from, but I find it believable.

 

While Kaladin is still making progress on his issues, his reactions to Bridge 4 wanting to stay Bridge 4 with the tattooing, and his vehement disbelief of the idea that he is now a lighteyes, suggest that his mentality is still conflicted over his own identity as a slave. His stormlight heals the tattoo of freedom, rather than the scars of his slavery. The shash brand of violence still seems very much part of his identity, with his constant focus on using violence to protect.

 

I agree with this idea. Everyone in Bridge 4 seems to think that Bridge 4 was their salvation. Kaladin never understands this. Even as his men are getting tattooed and as Hobber is explaining that he was freed not from Bridge 4, but by it, Kaladin is squirming inside. I think that, more than anything, is why the tattoos didn't take. Kaladin does not believe that he was freed by Bridge 4, and so it's not a part of him.

[ranstang94]

 

I agree with this idea. Everyone in Bridge 4 seems to think that Bridge 4 was their salvation. Kaladin never understands this. Even as his men are getting tattooed and as Hobber is explaining that he was freed not from Bridge 4, but by it, Kaladin is squirming inside. I think that, more than anything, is why the tattoos didn't take. Kaladin does not believe that he was freed by Bridge 4, and so it's not a part of him.

 

Kaladin wasn't really freed by Bridge 4. He, in taking responsibility for bridge 4, is still serving bridge 4 more than anyone else. He is more hurt when one of them dies than when anyone else does. He is still in some ways chained to the bridge.  

[Rybal]

Honestly, I'd use a scene from The Matrix to support the explanation that his own perception of himself is the reason his scars are still there.

 

Remember the scene where Neo first goes into the simulator. His real self did not have hair, but his digital self did. Even though he knew it wasn't real, his subconcious still gave him a full head of hair.

 

I think that this is similar. Those scars became deeply ingrained into his understanding of who he was. I also tend to think that, were he given the choice, he would keep them as a reminder of who he is and what he's gone through. Also, as with the Parshendi belief that one should let their target know that they are coming when they are planning an assassination, Kaladin would be perfectly OK with showing off his Shash glyph. Imagine someone coming at you with a glowing "Dangerous" coming at you.

[zephyr1011]

 

 

I'm a STICK!!!!!!

He's a STICK....

Odeam Wins K.O. 

 

I have a theory on how Odium will win

 

I think that at the end of Book 10 there will be an epic showdown with Odium, where the Knights Radiant have some hitherto unrevealed plan, it appears to work perfectly, but at the last minute Odium will have an epic monologue.

 

Something along the lines of:

 

"You little things scurry around so, meddling in affairs you cannot hope to comprehend. Do you not appreciate how much simpler, how much better, how much kinder, life would be without thought. Without the endless motion and chaos that leads only to pain?

 

A stick cannot suffer. Nor may a stick know guilt, or remorse, or shame. Sticks are at peace with themselves. Sticks have a pleasant woody aroma, so much more tolerable than the fumes that emanate from your fleshy carcasses.

 

You guys should totally become sticks. just sayin'

 

Signed, your Pal Odium"

 

All the Knights Radiant turn into sticks, and Odium rules eternally

Edited March 12, 2014 by zephyr1011

[garlick]

Kaladin has always done a lot of soul searching. Even in the way of kings and through WoR he speaks about not being ableto be the person he was back in Aramams army. He view him self something different. He was broken by the slaver then bridge four and what came away was a reforged man. It is how he sees himself. I don't think they will go away, atleast until he he comes to terms that hes no longer that man anymore. Possibly when he truly excepts hes a radiant they will go away until then this is how he sees himself.

Edited March 13, 2014 by garlick

[Velnica]

From WoB:

 

 

 

I also asked about healing something like eyesight and whether that would require Regrowth or if it was just the result of holding Stormlight and he said it would all depend on how the person envisioned himself.

 

To Kaladin, his tattoo is a mark of the man that he was. He didn't consider himself a family of Bridge Four (hence the failed tattoos) and neither was he content with his past. Remember he was still stewing about Amaram too at the time, hence why his 'slave' persona was the one in the forefront.

 

Maybe in the future when everything is resolved he'd finally remove the brand.

[lookingglass]

I was thinking that maybe Kaladin was protecting himself. During most of WoR he was avoiding becoming the knight radiant that Dalinar wanted. If his scars suddenly dissipated people would be suspicious so he instinctively stopped himself from healing the scars until he was ready to come forward and tell people of his powers. So maybe he'll heal them now?

[Walker]

The Windrunners ideals are protecting and leadership.  He has come to terms with protecting, but has a long way to go as a leader.  I think the slavery scars will disappear as part of that process.

[+eveorjoy]

The Windrunners ideals are protecting and leadership.  He has come to terms with protecting, but has a long way to go as a leader.  I think the slavery scars will disappear as part of that process.

 

Actually I think he is a really good leader now. What does he still need to learn about leadership?

[Walker]

Actually I think he is a really good leader now. What does he still need to learn about leadership?

 

He can lead Bridge 4 because they were from a similar social class.  He has serious issues with light eyes still.  He needs to be able to cross social boundaries.

[Seloun]

Actually I think he is a really good leader now. What does he still need to learn about leadership?

 

One of the major things I think he still needs to learn is that he needs to be able to let go. He's still too overprotective of his men; they aren't the powerless any longer, and he has to accept that one of the consequences of that is that his men may choose to sacrifice themselves for what they feel is important. In particular, Kaladin has to realize there's a difference his men being in danger unwillingly versus accepting danger to protect others. Syl seems to recognize this in the chasms:

 

 

“In Bridge Four, you dedicated everything you had to saving them,” Syl said. “Well, they’re saved. You can’t go about protecting every one like a . . . um . . . Like a . . .”

 

“Father kurl watches over his eggs?”

 

“Exactly!” She paused. “What’s a kurl?”

 

He can't save everyone...by himself. He has to be able to accept help, and that means that sometimes other people are the ones that put themselves in harms way. Look at what he's doing at the end of WoR; he's taking it completely upon himself to save his hometown, despite Dalinar's actions to warn Alethka in general. He has to learn to let go; that's the part about leadership he still needs to accept.

[Malevericas]

Lopen often told jokes about how his hand was giving the bird from an animal's stomach.  He breathes stormlight and it starts to regenerate.  I think it is fair to say that that his mind has always seen him as having 2 arms.  Cognative.  His soul was not changed by losing an arm.  Consequently I conjecture that storm light heals to the point of your cognitive version of your self.  A person sees himself as healthy so wounds heal.  The slave brand is on his body and soul.  Brandon has made it abundantly clear that Kaladin is a slave to his desire to redeem himself for what he considers to be his failures at protecting.  Once he heals the spiritual wound, the scar only exists in the cognitive realm and he will then be able to heal it with stormlight.