+eveorjoy Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Suffering changes a person's appearance. This link shows examples of the effect war leaves on soldiers' faces. Kaladin has been to Damnation and back, suffering nearly two years of physical, emotional, and mental torment as a slave. He is aware that he is broken inside and considers the man he was in Amaram's army dead. I'm sure he doesn't look like that man anymore either, even if you don't consider the scars. Also, Amaram has been busy doing important stuff. He might spare a thought now and then for the man whose life he destroyed, but considering all the pressure he is under I doubts he allows himself to dwell on that unfortunate squadleader for long. Do you think Amaram will recognize Kaladin when he sees him again? I have my doubts that he will, unless he talks with Kaladin for more than a few minutes. It's possible Amaram may not recognize Kaladin at all unless Kal reminds him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azul Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Perhaps at a casual glance he could overlook him but I think between Kaladin's interactions with Dalinar and him likely staring daggers at Amaram it will be very hard for Amaram not to notice him and realize who he is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinintendo Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think he will recognize the brand on his face and even not just one look into kaladin eyes will reflect the rage in his heart. that's pre-talking to him of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think he will recognize the brand on his face and even not just one look into kaladin eyes will reflect the rage in his heart. that's pre-talking to him of course. Lot's of slaves get that brand and he has one more brand since he got his original glyph pair. If Amaram does recognize him, it won't be because of the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Suffering changes a person's appearance. This link shows examples of the effect war leaves on soldiers' faces. Kaladin has been to Damnation and back, suffering nearly two years of physical, emotional, and mental torment as a slave. He is aware that he is broken inside and considers the man he was in Amaram's army dead. I'm sure he doesn't look like that man anymore either, even if you don't consider the scars. Also, Amaram has been busy doing important stuff. He might spare a thought now and then for the man whose life he destroyed, but considering all the pressure he is under I doubts he allows himself to dwell on that unfortunate squadleader for long. Do you think Amaram will recognize Kaladin when he sees him again? I have my doubts that he will, unless he talks with Kaladin for more than a few minutes. It's possible Amaram may not recognize Kaladin at all unless Kal reminds him. Won't Dalinar have the courtesy to introduce the captain of his personal guards? If he recognises, then the first thought probably on Amaran's mind will be "rust! I'm screwed" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Maybe. Maybe not. Dalinar doesn't need to introduce his bodyguards. You do have a point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandalhearts Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Suffering changes a person's appearance. This link shows examples of the effect war leaves on soldiers' faces. Kaladin has been to Damnation and back, suffering nearly two years of physical, emotional, and mental torment as a slave. He is aware that he is broken inside and considers the man he was in Amaram's army dead. I'm sure he doesn't look like that man anymore either, even if you don't consider the scars. Also, Amaram has been busy doing important stuff. He might spare a thought now and then for the man whose life he destroyed, but considering all the pressure he is under I doubts he allows himself to dwell on that unfortunate squadleader for long. Do you think Amaram will recognize Kaladin when he sees him again? I have my doubts that he will, unless he talks with Kaladin for more than a few minutes. It's possible Amaram may not recognize Kaladin at all unless Kal reminds him. Wow look at the eyes of the people in your link. Are the photos legit (no photoshop) because they are so bright in the middle and so dull afterwards. Anyways I don't think Amaram is going to recognize him. From the small glimpses of him we've seen, he seems not to have lost any sleep over what he did to Kaladin, probably more concerned with the voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 "Hello this is Kaladin, he and his squad saved both Adolin and I along with several thousand of our troops from a Parshendi ambush, oh he also saved me from a Shardbearer..." Think Amaram might recall something similar. Personally though I think he will remember him and I would not be surprised if he still doesnt feel guilty about it, I actually think Amaram was one of the better lighteyes until he did what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikorr Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think it virtually impossible that Amaram won't recognise him. - what Cayden said - Kaladin staring daggers (ie meaning he knows Amaram) - this man saved Amarams life from a shardbearer ...does anyone really think Amaram could forget such a man? - it hasn't been all that long - he's the 'miracle' (re surviving the highstorm)...everyone in Sadeas warcamp knew of him (and Amaram is a subject of Sadeas) - his freedom was purchased with a shardblade...every single warcamp would be talking about that. - he's a darkeyed Captain...what the? - he's marked a slave...and is a dark eyed captain...what the? Seriously, how is it possible that Amaram won't know who Kaladin is? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandalhearts Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think it virtually impossible that Amaram won't recognise him. - what Cayden said - Kaladin staring daggers (ie meaning he knows Amaram) - this man saved Amarams life from a shardbearer ...does anyone really think Amaram could forget such a man? - it hasn't been all that long - he's the 'miracle' (re surviving the highstorm)...everyone in Sadeas warcamp knew of him (and Amaram is a subject of Sadeas) - his freedom was purchased with a shardblade...every single warcamp would be talking about that. - he's a darkeyed Captain...what the? - he's marked a slave...and is a dark eyed captain...what the? Seriously, how is it possible that Amaram won't know who Kaladin is? I don't think he won't ever recognize him just that I doubt he'll recognize him right away. 1. He's not expecting to see Kaladin. He probably thinks he's still a slave cleaning out someones latrines somewhere. 2. Kaladin is not likely to storm up to Amaram and challenge him to a duel, not after the way Dalinar greets him. I don't doubt that Amaram remembers the event. I just think his other concerns and his lack of guilt/worry will probably hide Kaladin from him for a while. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duskshard Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Even if he doesn't recognise him by appearance straight away, I bet he'll recognise the name Kaladin Stormblessed. Amaram: Dalinar old friend, who is that young guard looking at me like he wants to drive his spear through me? Dalinar: Oh, that's just the new Captain of my guard. Kaladin Stormblessed. Amaram: Err... if you would excuse me Dalinar, I think I've just soiled my Shardplate. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think Adolin's priority of claiming that particular set of shards will jump to top priority if Amaram doesn't just hand them over. The truth will come out and Dalinar will not be amused. As for the man himself yes recognizing kaladin will happen though only after the meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisapx Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 As for the extra mark, I think Amaram might be even expecting that, since he saw Kaladin take down a shardbearer, that's pretty much the roof of dangerous lvls in Roshar! Kaladin earning his sash mark while being enslaved was a 100% sure event, due to the way he was unjustly enslaved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) On another note, though I don't condone vengeance no matter how much Kaladin deserves to dish it out... I hope Syl goes all out in making the man miserable. Mischief can be an honorable occupation. Edited February 25, 2014 by Darkarma 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 When Amaram spoke to Kaladin after he slew the Shardbearer assassin he didn't recognize him from Herthstone and Roshone's conscription of Tien. I imagine Kaladin has grown harder since then and i think he might have trouble recognizing him by sight but the name Kaladin Stormblessed might be recognizable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well, to start with it has been 1 year as a slave for Kaladin. 8 Months with various masters and about 2 months with Sadeas. Also, even though Amaram took the plate and blade, I don't think he was happy with the way he got them. He had to be convinced by Restares and others that he should take that path. I believe that Amaram truly betrayed his own honor in that action and I would be rather surprised if he was not in some way haunted by that choice. That being the case, I would expect that Kaladin would always be somewhere in the back of his mind (particular the stinging rebuke Kaladin threw at him). He may not immediately recognize him, but Kaladin occupies a very conspicuous position in Dalinar's camp, as pointed out by vikorr, and I think that as soon as Kaladin is pointed out to Amaram, Amaram will recognize him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Even if Kaladin's face isn't enough for Amaram to recognize who that is, the hate in Kal's eyes will be unmistakable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 If Amaram does not recognize him immediately, he will very quickly. There is no other darkeyed Atheli who is allowed to stare down lighteyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Yes. I can remember the face of the random kid that wanted to fight my best friend in 4th grade. I think Amaram is gonna have no problem with this one. Edited February 25, 2014 by Bloodfalcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Oh I suppose if Amaram spoke to Kaladin for five minutes, including Dalinar introducing him, he would recognize him, but Kaladin might try to avoid such meetings. Could he avoid them forever? No, but it is possible. Was Kaladin only with Sadeas for two months? He was with bridge 4 for several weeks before he tried to save it. It took several weeks to get bridge 4 to follow him. It would take several more weeks for them to be as in shape as they were when Kaladin was strung up. Then a few weeks for Kaladin to heal. Then several weeks for Kaladin to train the bridgemen. Maybe it wasn't a whole year, but I think it was more than two months. Also in Chapter 67 "Wordsl" pg 912, Kaladin says he has been a slave for years. The type he’d have practically killed to get during his years as a slave.. I don't think Amaram would remember the name Kaladin Stormblessed. He didn't seem to recognize it when he took the shards. I doubt he ever heard it. I bet the name was known only among the darkeyes in Amaram's army. He might hear the name now, but I'm not sure he will realize who it is, at least at first. And I don't think he expected Kaladin to get a Shash brand. Most slaves who receive that are killed. @Bloodfalcon. You may have a better memory than Amaram. He did remember Kaladin from there first meeting. Their second meeting was more memorable, but Kaladin as I said, looks different now. In fact, do you think you could recognize what that kid looked like today. Edited February 25, 2014 by eveorjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 about 2 months is correct, but keep in mind Rosharan weeks/months are different. Weeks are only five days long and Months are fifty days long. Kaladin has definitely not been a slave for "years" he was made a slave only 8 months before becoming a bridgeman. Also Kaladin was made a slave a bit before the Weeping, and the next one has not yet occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) about 2 months is correct, but keep in mind Rosharan weeks/months are different. Weeks are only five days long and Months are fifty days long. Kaladin has definitely not been a slave for "years" he was made a slave only 8 months before becoming a bridgeman. Also Kaladin was made a slave a bit before the Weeping, and the next one has not yet occurred. I agree Kaladin was over estimating his time when he made that statement. Still, I think he has been with Sadeas longer than twenty weeks or two months. Still, if it has only been two months, can you show how you know this? I admit I could be wrong, but it seemed longer to me. Edit: I guess you would know, but could you point me in the right direction. Edited February 25, 2014 by eveorjoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kersplattle Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Hmmm, dramatic moment in the narrative. I think whether Amaram recognizes Kaladin immediately depends on Brandon's use of the drama in the narrative ! But to argue instead as if this was real (as we tend to), in logic I'd be of the camp that says that Amaram should recognize him. The gaining of the set of shards was a turning point for Amaram, and as he himself very clearly recognized he did so in the most dubious of circumstances. Dubious especially because in Alethi culture this was a hallowed tradition; everyone knows it (even the Horneaters rely on it, and they're not strictly Alethi), that if you defeat a shard-bearer you obtain his shards. Moash sets out his goals as being that too, it's ingrained. For a person like Amaram, a senior noble (just one step down from High Prince by the looks of it), with an apparently reasonably well deserved reputation for honourableness, to take a decision to illegally take the shards would be a huge step and one that would stay with him. The very way he talks about it strikes me as odd, circumlocutory, short on detail. I bet most Alethi would really like to hear of the epic battle how a full shard-bearer was defeated, and every time he gives a story Amaram knows it's false (though he probably uses the "facts" as it happened, just substituting his hand not Kaladin's for the skilful strike through the visor). Oh yes, he'll know. And it will be a huge psychological blow to him. What will he do, unless he's stupid he should recognize that he cannot bluster his way out of it; he has to come clean, and to Dalinar and Kaladin; and justify it and beg forgiveness. He's rather like "Mr T", did what he thought was right even though it is in many ways morally repugnant. But for the story, I'd bet that there's a lot more to it with conflict on many levels. If he holds out it will put Dalinar in a dreadful position; Dalinar implicitly trusts Kaladin (reasons, many and a separate thread I think) very deeply given the position he has, and if his "oldest and best friend" is in a serious confrontation (not necessarily physical at all) with Kaladin, which side does he take ? He almost cannot now disavow Kaladin, so my guess that if this happens, he has to put the hard word on Amaram, or breaks with him. Great conflict subject, how will it go ? Just on a week to find out ! Edited February 25, 2014 by Kersplattle 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjibooboo Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Looking at some of the reviews, many people are saying that their frustration with the book ddervices from kaladin not speaking his mind or voicing his concerns, so I doubt the Amaram vs kaladin thing will come to any fruition anytime soon in the book. More likely, Kaladin ends up avoiding Amaram, contemplating killing him, forgiving him, whether to tell Dalinar or anyone else etc.. I would imagine there is some end brought to this but my guess is, the big reveal of "hey im kaladin you son of a gun" won`t happen right off the bat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I agree. It seems very in character for Kaladin to stew over Amaram rather than confront him directly. Kaladin doesn't want to trust any lighteyes, this gives him something to hold against Dalinar. I can hear the internal dialog now "How am I supposed to trust a man who has Amaram for a friend?" This allows Kaladin to continue to hold Dalinar in suspicion and delay his own big reveal that he promised to Syl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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