How Shallan Acquired Her Blade: the Ghostblood Conspiracy

[Confused]

My second post! In this one, I posit that Jasnah ordered Liss to assassinate Shallan’s mother. Shallan in turn killed Liss and took possession of Liss’s shardblade.

 

Known Facts:

1. Jasnah planned to assassinate her sister-in-law by using a shardblade-bearing female assassin named Liss and nicknamed “the Weeper.” Instead, she used Liss to “observe” Aesudan and gather information.
2. Despite Liss’s voluptuous figure and long hair (at least for the palace maid assignment), hardly anyone knew she was a woman. She gouged out her victims’ eyes to hide the fact that she killed with a shardblade.
3. One of the two corpses laid out in the room was Shallan’s mother (the “woman in white”). She was killed by a shardblade (reference to her “horrible eyes”). The other, according to Shallan, was a “man” with blood on him. Someone (presumably Shallan’s father) had flipped Shallan’s mother’s corpse face down to hide the eyes from Shallan.
4. In WoK, Shallan had been surprised that Jasnah knew her family, minor rural nobility in a neighboring kingdom.
5. Shallan’s father bore the tattoo of the Ghostbloods.
6. WoB suggests that Shallan’s mother was someone important.

 

Theory: The Ghostblood Conspiracy

 

I believe the Ghostbloods desire to reinstate Hierocracy rule of Roshar to better prepare for the Desolation. (Thanks to my son for this insight.) I believe Taravangian is a Ghostblood (its leader?). His discussion with Szeth at the end of WoK suggests the Ghostbloods’ method for achieving their goal was to destroy Roshar’s political structure. One element of this plan was to put Shallan’s father in a position where he could lead Jah Keved to join the Hierocracy, but that tactic failed with his death.

 

Immediately prior to Gavilar’s murder, Jasnah sees him conversing with Amaram. I believe Gavilar was ordering Amaram to lead a covert war against the Ghostbloods, the war in which Kaladin fought. It was covert in the sense that the war was portrayed as being about a border dispute. Gavilar initially thought that Thaidakar (the Ghostblood leader – alias for Taravangian? WoK Ch. 51) had hired Szeth.

 

I believe Jasnah was also concerned about the Ghostbloods and suspected Aesudan, Elkohar’s wife, of working on their behalf to undermine Alethkar. After deciding to have Liss observe but not kill Aesudan, Jasnah discovered, through Liss, communications between Shallan’s mother and Aesudan. Shallan’s mother was someone high up in the Ghostbloods. Perhaps she was bribing or blackmailing Aesudan to weaken Alethkar. Jasnah ordered Liss to assassinate her.

 

Shallan Kills Liss and Gains the Shardblade

 

Shallan saw Liss enter Shallan’s mother’s room, or heard a commotion, or just entered the room at the wrong time. She saw Liss kill her mother. Liss then bent over Shallan’s mother to gouge out her eyes and remove the evidence of the shardblade. Shallan either held or found a knife, or took one from Liss while Liss was kneeling over her mother, and stabbed Liss in the back. (Perhaps Shallan unknowingly used Lightweaving to hide her presence.) Because Shallan killed Liss, she inherited her shardblade. Shallan thought she had killed a man because Liss dressed like a man (that is, not wearing a dress) and fell forward onto her stomach, hiding her female anatomy. Shallan was too traumatized to notice otherwise.

 

When Shallan’s father showed up, Shallan was holding the shardblade. He realized what had happened. He asked Shallan if he could have the shardblade. Because she gave him permission to take it, he was able to put it in his safe – the “other monster.”

 

First theory problem: what would make the shardblade glow? Perhaps Shallan inadvertently “Lightwove” the glow around the blade, at least in her own perception? Perhaps her heightened senses imagined the glow? Perhaps something else in the safebox glowed?

 

Second theory problem: if Jasnah ordered the assassination, why did she later accept Shallan as her ward? Did she feel guilt? Did she know that Shallan had no knowledge of the Ghostbloods? Did she think she could learn more from Shallan than Shallan could learn from her? Did she want to co-opt Shallan?

 

Thoughts?

[Havoc]

Fantastic theory. For extra points, can you tie in this occurrence: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6124-voidsphere-speculation-i-havent-heard-before/

[Swimmingly]

Belated welcomings to this community. Excellent theory.

[Cromptj]

The glow from the safe was probably the soulcaster with infused gems.

[Mr_Doe]

Overall I like this theory, but the one problem that really jumps out at me is why didn't Shallan's father take the shardblade?

[Morsk]

This is great! I had a theory that no one knows Shallan has the Shardblade. (I think it's a secret known only to her and the Cryptics.) But I couldn't explain the problem with her mother's eyes. Surely her father would have noticed, and wondered where the Shardblade went. But if her father only saw gouged-out eyes from Liss, no one would know a Shardblade was involved at all. Shallan walked in, bonded it and made it disappear, and no one else ever saw it.

The rest of my theory doesn't work with this, since I think the "monster" in the safe is just some other sword, and that her father doesn't know about the Blade at all.

[shinintendo]

Nice thought out theory, Can you explain with it why she killed her father?

[Swimmingly]

An unrelated incident involving him either finally turning his bottled rage on her or him brutally beating one of her brothers? She tries to intervene and accidently (or in rage) summons a Shardblade which she tries to use to force him to stop. He calls her bluff, and she's forced to follow through.

[garlick]

It's a good theroy but I was under the impression nobody new Liss wasn't a woman meant they assume the assassin was a man. A good assassin doesnt leave witnesses so noone has ever seen her in action to know it was a woman, not that she dresses/looks like a man.

i would have to reread the chapter it seemed to me her father was hurt due to Shallans actions and was killed but I dont think it was with the shard blade. I say this because if she did mortal damage with a shard blade how was he holding her and singing to her he would either be crippled or dead if attacked with a blade....severing the limps soul or death if it touches the spine. I still like the idea of the soul caster in the safe over the shard blade. I think her father had the shardblade along with the soulcaster, having both would help his push for becoming a high prince. But when shallan killed him, Which im not even sure she is responsible but she may beleive she is, possibly it was her inaction that cause his death and she blames herself. the blade poped out she bonded to it and found the soulcaster in the safe. Your idea is a good plot twist but i don't think its very likley.

[Confused]

I'm not sure Shallan did kill him. One important aspect of the drawing Shallan made of his death scene was that he lay in a pool of blood. A shardblade wouldn't leave blood. Also, her view of the scene was from the far end of the room, and her father was already laying in blood, presumably dead. It is unlikely Shallan killed him and then paused on her way out to take her mental picture.

 

There are a lot of reasons she may think he killed him. Maybe whatever happened caused her to blame herself for the death. Maybe she blanked out and Balat told her she killed him. He is, after all, a cruel and self-identified coward. Maybe her memory was inaccurate, caused by Pattern. Maybe in fact she did kill him, for whatever reason, but not with her shardblade. We'll find out soon enough...

[Moogle]

It's good that your first posts are excellent theories. Many deserved upvotes are yours.

 

I, too, made a huge theory linking Taravangian with the ardents/Ghostblods. If you haven't read his Interlude, though (it's on Tor as I recall) he seems to be more involved with stormwardens and that would put him in Restares' camp.

[Shardlet]

A point which needs to be tidied up is that during the battle we saw Kaladin in as a part of Amaram's army took place after Gavilar was dead.  If I am not mistaken, within the last year.  The war of Reckoning has been ongoing for over five years (nearly six).  Also, Kaladin spoke of a desire to join in the fighting at the shattered plains.  Unless Sadeas was directly involved in prosecuting this ghost war against the Ghostbloods, I don't see how Amaram could have continued in this effort for five years after its progenitor had been killed.

[wlmkfi]

Great work confused, a definitely well thought out theory. It also supports 2 theories I have been working on. How did Shallan "soulcast" so strongly prior to bonding with a spren ? The only answer I can come up with, is that she possesses an "honor blade". Her taking the blade off Liss ties it up nicely . Oh my other theory is Liss is Shalash due to her sex being indiscriminate in reputation although in her meeting with Jasnah she displays a "plump and attractive figure" (perfect for her current role). Sounds like illusion to me. Her indifference in killing light eyes or dark eyes also supports this. Bring on March 6 (I live in Australia) !

*edit*

After 5 minutes of pondering, I have changed my mind, Liss is not Shalash, but I think she has/d her honor blade and therefore has/d the lightweaving ability it gives similar to Szeth and his ability to windrun without a nahel bond.

Edited February 22, 2014 by wlmkfi

[shinintendo]

It's good that your first posts are excellent theories. Many deserved upvotes are yours.

 

I, too, made a huge theory linking Taravangian with the ardents/Ghostblods. If you haven't read his Interlude, though (it's on Tor as I recall) he seems to be more involved with stormwardens and that would put him in Restares' camp.

I love the theory Moogle, Can I add something to the theory that maybe seems obvious?

I think you can add that it explain Gavilar speaking to Amaram in secret (Jasnah prologue).

I believe Gavilar sent BrightLord Amaram to act as highmarshal in the northern border to invade Jah Keved since he believed this country was ruled by ardents/Ghostbloods who wanted to rule over all of Roshar.

It also explains Amaram actions of self justification about killing Kaladin's squad members.

There are many things to think about to arrange your theory and Confused theory to make some sense of it all.

I also think "Take this. They must not get it" refer to them about having the dark sphere.

 

Edit: without meaning to I stated some of Confused canon from the book. wasn't intentional really.

Edited February 22, 2014 by shinintendo

[Duskshard]

Liss's sex wasn't ambiguous. People just didn't know that the Weeper was a woman, everyone just assumed that the Weeper was a man. Which was good for Liss because no one would expect her to be the Weeper because she's a woman.

 

I really don't see an assassin of her reputation being so sloppy and causing that bloodbath, and I don't believe for a second that Shallan would mistake the body of a woman for a man.

 

Other that that you've got an interesting theory. 

 

Shallans mother could very well of been a Ghostblood, Brandon certainly suggests she's a person of interest.

 

 

LIGHTFLAME

When Shallan is appealing Jasnah, Jasnah reveals that she has heard about Shallan's step-mother, Malise Gevelmar. Has Malise Gevelmar ever met Jasnah or one of her associates (excluding Shallan)?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, she has not. You'll learn more about Malise in Book Two. She really is just a rural lighteyes of not much consequence. Shallan's mother, however...

 

Edited February 23, 2014 by Duskshard

[Luke.spence]

I do not know if this has been postulated yet, but this works with this theory as well.

 

I believe Shallan's eldest brother was the shardbearer that Kaladin killed while saving Amaram. 

 

1. Shallan said her brother disappeared a year ago, and Kaladin fought the shardbearer a year ago.

 

2. He was noted as having been from Jah Kaved.

 

3. He was most likely involved with the Ghostbloods. If Shallan's mother was a high ranking official, it would make sense for her to involve her adult son as well.

 

I apologize if this has been suggested before, I'm fairly new to all this conspiracy theorizing lol.

[Swimmingly]

And that means that she will hear Amaram describing her brother as an "assassin". Won't go over too well, I imagine.

[Humph]

One glaring weakness of the theory is how such a young child could slice up a trained assassin.  A trained killer on a mission would be vigilant all the time, and so I have a hard time picturing Shallan being able to sneak up or catch her off guard.  One possible "work-around" would be to postulate that Shallan had at the time other powers that are heretofore unmentioned e.g. teleportation  -- but it would be hard to support that with any evidence at all that we have so far.

[Confused]

Thank you all for your kind and insightful comments. Some responses:

 

1. Shardlet: I'm sure Sadeas would have known of what Amaram was doing and why. He, along with Dalinar, were Gavilar's two closest advisors. Sadeas may even have suggested to Gavilar that Amaram should command the army and prosecute the war from Sadeas's territory. That would make the war look like a border dispute. Alethkar's national security needs don't change simply because the prior monarch had been replaced.

 

I believe Amaram finally came to the Shattered Plains because the Ghostbloods abandoned the war after Shallan's father's death became known to them. That would have occurred fairly recently.

 

2. Moogle: Excellent ideas in your linked post. If I had known of the post, I would have simply cited it, rather than reinvent the same ideas.

 

3. Regarding the likelihood of Shallan killing a skilled assassin: First, Liss would have dressed in utilitarian clothing, which probably meant pants and a head covering, to keep her hair from interfering with her vision. In Shallan's limited experience, particularly at her age, that would have identified Liss as a man.

 

I also suspect that Shallan showed her proto-surgebinding abilities at a young age (Pattern seems so to imply) - the reason her father coddled her? Couldn't a Lightweaver make herself invisible by bending the light around her? Or at least create an illusion of the room in which Liss and Shallan's mother appeared to be the only occupants? And the Interlude does not state that it was a "bloodbath," just that the "man" had "bled." Liss killed her mother with "little blood there" because she killed with her shardblade. In short, Liss was not "sloppy"; she just didn't anticipate a Lightweaver sneaking up on her from behind.

[EK55]

Gavilar initially thought that Thaidakar (the Ghostblood leader – alias for Taravangian? WoK Ch. 51) had hired Szeth.

 

 

I like the theory, though I do think there are a few holes. I just want to point out though, that Thaidakar is not an alias for Taravangian. I don't have a quote from the book, but I'm pretty sure I remember an Alethi Highprince named Thaidakar.

[Brotherbard]

I like the theory, though I do think there are a few holes. I just want to point out though, that Thaidakar is not an alias for Taravangian. I don't have a quote from the book, but I'm pretty sure I remember an Alethi Highprince named Thaidakar.

 

Thaidakar is mentioned twice in tWoK. Once by Gavilar just before he dies and once by Amaram just before he kills Kaladins men. Neither one refers to him as a Highprince.

[Duskshard]

 And the Interlude does not state that it was a "bloodbath," just that the "man" had "bled." Liss killed her mother with "little blood there" because she killed with her shardblade. In short, Liss was not "sloppy"; she just didn't anticipate a Lightweaver sneaking up on her from behind.

 

Those weren't the only corpses. At the start of the Interlude it makes out like there's multiple corpses on the floor of the room behind her father, then she goes on to remark on the bodies of the man and the woman in the room with her.

 

A familiar lullaby, one he always used to sing to her. In the room behind him, dark corpses stretched out on the floor. A red carpet once white.

 

 

A red carpet once white indicates a bloodbath to me.

[Palladia]

I guess this is obvious/implied but I don't think anyone said it straight out yet: This explains why there was a full Shardbearer riding against Amaram in what Kaladin assumed to be a border dispute. It was clearly a fight with much higher stakes.

 

Also, the strongbox would glow because Shallan's shardblade would glow - this is part of a different theory: The Plate and Blades of surgebinders glow, just like in the past when the Knights Radiant would glow.

[Swimmingly]

I guess this is obvious/implied but I don't think anyone said it straight out yet: This explains why there was a full Shardbearer riding against Amaram in what Kaladin assumed to be a border dispute. It was clearly a fight with much higher stakes.

 

Also, the strongbox would glow because Shallan's shardblade would glow - this is part of a different theory: The Plate and Blades of surgebinders glow, just like in the past when the Knights Radiant would glow.

Hi Palladia, welcome to the forums!