Question 19

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Uhm this does pose something of a problem since I only wish to ever play one character (its hard for me to keep up with several different ones). The idea of not having it work quickly enough to prevent a fatal wound also would be sort of not what I would want, since this healing factor is more of making it so her powers don't kill her. She is a character more based around utility (since she would and could run from most fights). But if that is what pushes her into high epic territory and that is disallowed, I can't see how any alternative that would be as effective would not result in the same classification. Also, part of the reason I wanted it to be a healing factor versus danger sense or durability was so that she had an active reason not to want to use it. Her character isnt really based around utlizing her healing factor. That is much more of a secondary thing that helps enable her to be the somewhat playful and irreverant character that she is.

Instead of changing the power is there something else that could be done? I'm sorry to ask. I just didn't know when making her that this would be an issue D:

 

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but I don't think nerfing her powerset would have as much impact on the story as you think. Take my Portland character, Doctor Funtimes. She has two powers—matter manipulation and teleportation, both of which are quite strong—and no invincibility whatsoever, prime or not. She's playful (she turned Fortuity's gun into a hamster and one of his doors into bubble wrap during a visit to Newcago) irreverent (she gave Corpsemaker bright orange hammer pants when he asked for clothes) and more than a little insane—a personality that has remained despite her not having any sort of healing factor or invulnerability.

 

In The Dalles, Kobold has a character called Glamour, whose power involves control over light, which he's used to awesome effect. Glamour also has no PI, and he still shows the bare minimum of respect toward authority and everyone else. There are more similar characters, but my point is that playfulness and PIs don't have to go hand-in-hand. It's a character's personality that determines how they act, not necessarily their powers. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Noelle]

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but I don't think nerfing her powerset would have as much impact on the story as you think. Take my Portland character, Doctor Funtimes. She has two powers—matter manipulation and teleportation, both of which are quite strong—and no invincibility whatsoever, prime or not. She's playful (she turned Fortuity's gun into a hamster and one of his doors into bubble wrap during a visit to Newcago) irreverent (she gave Corpsemaker bright orange hammer pants when he asked for clothes) and more than a little insane—a personality that has remained despite her not having any sort of healing factor or invulnerability.

In The Dalles, Kobold has a character called Glamour, whose power involves control over light, which he's used to awesome effect. Glamour also has no PI, and he still shows the bare minimum of respect toward authority and everyone else. There are more similar characters, but my point is that playfulness and PIs don't have to go hand-in-hand. It's a character's personality that determines how they act, not necessarily their powers.

I definitely agree with you! However I always imagined Lena as a very, well, cowardly and petty sort of person. The healing factor was always about her not accidentally killig herself if, say, she ran face first into something at high speeds and also a sort of "safety blanket" that let her interact with others, since otherwise I felt her personality lent itself to sort of staying out of thick of things even if that is boring to her simply to assure her own survival. I didn't realize that it would be an issue and when I was thinking about her without the power her ability to fly in the manner I was intending would be quite limited as was much of her impetus to interact with other characters due to her own cowardice, if that makes sense? I just don't think she "works" without that ability since it was originally just about enabling her to fly in the manner I intended.

Like, if she would die from running into something or from G-Forces (since I assume such an immunity would be problematic as well) and I sort of made it that she would, because she has faster reaction times but not /that/ fast, then it severely limits the sort of cool flying power fantasy I was going for with her powers. She can't exactly go at breakneck speeds if doing so will actually break her neck and kill her, you know?

But if it is a problem I can definitely just make a different character. I'm quite sorry! I did not realize that her powerset would be an issue.

(Sorry for any spelling/grammatical errors. I am typing on my phone ^^; )

Edited June 8, 2016 by Noelle

[Mailliw73]

Yup! Why do you ask?

Just curious. You might not remember me, but I used to be over there. I dropped out a while back though, so you may not remember me. 

 

Twi, I don't know if this should be a thing or not, but I'm willing to vouch for Noelle's writing, if that makes a difference at all or if recommendations should ever become a thing. 

[Chandrian]

Just an idea I had for you Noelle:

Since healing is a P.I. and all, I was wondering of you NEEDED that as your ability. I was thinking that instead of healing, you could add something like a reflexive use of gravity. Say you're about to hit a wall at 500 KPH, but you reflexively alter your gravity to throw you backwards or off course. In the case of bullets, maybe you could Windrunner-style lash the gravity of the bullets away from you (although I know that ability wouldn't currently be in your power set). If someone tries to stab you, they'd be gravitated like 20 meters away. I dont know if it's what you want, but I figure it was worthe a try.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Chandrian

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Just curious. You might not remember me, but I used to be over there. I dropped out a while back though, so you may not remember me.

Twi, I don't know if this should be a thing or not, but I'm willing to vouch for Noelle's writing, if that makes a difference at all or if recommendations should ever become a thing.

It's less about writing and more an issue of having High Epics out the wazoo. Mid-range Epics are sorely underrepresented, and vanillas are practically nonexistent. While I have no doubt Noelle could carry a High Epic, the purpose of the rule was to limit the number of new High Epics, so I'll still have to say Lena needs to be nerfed.

Noelle, if you kept her healing factor but weakened it considerably, she could still use it as a security blanket. Its inability to protect her from fatal wounds could limit her there, or it could make her even more clever as she finds ways to be playful without needlessly endangering her life.

[Noelle]

Just an idea I had for you Noelle:

Since healing is a P.I. and all, I was wondering of you NEEDED that as your ability. I was thinking that instead of healing, you could add something like a reflexive use of gravity. Say you're about to hit a wall at 500 KPH, but you reflexively alter your gravity to throw you backwards or off course. In the case of bullets, maybe you could Windrunner-style lash the gravity of the bullets away from you (although I know that ability wouldn't currently be in your power set). If someone tries to stab you, they'd be gravitated like 20 meters away. I dont know if it's what you want, but I figure it was worthe a try.

I thought about that too! But I'm pretty sure if she can't be durable due to healing factor/immunity to g-forces then, like, she would die if she went that fast to begin with? Even if she's more durable than the average person, I'm pretty sure making sudden changes as those speeds would just straight up kill her. Like, after a certain point there's not much difference if you run into something or not. If you're changing your direction super fast there will be effects that end with death. Jet pilots, for instance, have to wear certain gear to try and counteract the g-forces they undergo when flying, and those would probably be far less than ones Lena would experience since she can change direction much, much faster than a jet plane. That's why her whole deal with only gifting the flight ability results in so many deaths. That's also why I don't really see how it can be weakened while still getting to do the fun flying bits which were why I ever gave her the ability in the first place. If there's any sort of immunity she could have that's not PI that would allow her to do that then I'd be more than happy to change it. Otherwise I am fine with making a new character, I just need to think of one.

 

Also hello Will! Of course I remember you! I just couldn't read your username when I saw that post on my phone. It's good to see you ^^

[Chandrian]

I thought about that too! But I'm pretty sure if she can't be durable due to healing factor/immunity to g-forces then, like, she would die if she went that fast to begin with? Even if she's more durable than the average person, I'm pretty sure making sudden changes as those speeds would just straight up kill her. Like, after a certain point there's not much difference if you run into something or not. If you're changing your direction super fast there will be effects that end with death. Jet pilots, for instance, have to wear certain gear to try and counteract the g-forces they undergo when flying, and those would probably be far less than ones Lena would experience since she can change direction much, much faster than a jet plane. That's why her whole deal with only gifting the flight ability results in so many deaths. That's also why I don't really see how it can be weakened while still getting to do the fun flying bits which were why I ever gave her the ability in the first place. If there's any sort of immunity she could have that's not PI that would allow her to do that then I'd be more than happy to change it. Otherwise I am fine with making a new character, I just need to think of one.

That's the joy of this RP, you can make up abilities on a whim! Just give her G-force immunity or something in that vein.

[Noelle]

So it's alright if she's immune to certain things like friction or G-forces then? And she could have like, a slight danger sense to keep herself from running into things? None of that would cause her to be a high epic? 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

So it's alright if she's immune to certain things like friction or G-forces then? And she could have like, a slight danger sense to keep herself from running into things? None of that would cause her to be a high epic?

I think that so long as she can be injured or killed without triggering her weakness, she wouldn't reach High Epic status. How slight is her danger sense? I ask more because the logistics of this game make true precognition practically impossible, but I think a sort of Spidey Sense would be okay. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Noelle]

Not precognition, it would more be like a reaction. If something that would hurt her (like say a tree) is in her path, she'll just instinctively move out of the way. I was hoping her weakness could be claustrophobia, the more enclosed a space she is in the less her powers work. Is that alright to use?

[Chandrian]

I think that seems alright. What you need to keep in mind is that a weakness is hardly a gradual thing. There's a limit in which it triggers, and then the powers simply shut off.

[Noelle]

I wasn't actually sure of the extent of how weaknesses worked. This is what I get for not reading all the books D: I figured that it was more of them getting weaker until they don't work at all, since that seemed to be how the first Epic worked in Steelheart? (The only whose danger sense gets much worse if he's attracted to someone). I'd have to work out the exact size of room she can be in then, I guess!

[the winter system]

I think it might depend on the Epic in particular, to be honest. 

[Chandrian]

I think it might depend on the Epic in particular, to be honest.

Good point, the books never did specifically mention that parameter.

[Noelle]

So it would be fine if just being in enclosed spaces sort of dampens her powers and extinguishes them if the space becomes too enclosed?

Edited June 9, 2016 by Noelle

[Aonar]

I wasn't actually sure of the extent of how weaknesses worked. This is what I get for not reading all the books D: I figured that it was more of them getting weaker until they don't work at all, since that seemed to be how the first Epic worked in Steelheart? (The only whose danger sense gets much worse if he's attracted to someone). I'd have to work out the exact size of room she can be in then, I guess!

 

What can be inferred from the books roughly runs as such:

 

1. An unredeemed Epic, when faced with their exact weakness, will have their powers cancelled. (Such as [spoiler's] illusions breaking, or Steelheart's invulnerability being nullified.) Depending on the exact weakness, this might mean that they cannot use their powers at all, or that their powers fail when used against a specific person, so on and so forth; but when it comes to their exact weakness, their power is completely cancelled, not just weakened. 

 

2. Things that are close to (or remind one of; the connection won't always be intuitive to someone who is not the Epic) the weakness, can cause their powers to become weaker or inconsistent. (This is what you observed with Fortuity; his precognition was less effective against attractive women; it's been theorized that it shuts down entirely if he's rejected by one. There's a better example of this from later in the books, but it's very spoilery. )

 

3. Redeemed Epics are more resistant to their weaknesses; they are still effected, but those effects wear off more quickly, and tend not to be effected by anything that is not their true weakness. (This was implied in-book by spoiler characters, and confirmed by WoB, I believe. I could be wrong in this one though.)

 

 

In the case of claustrophobia, it would probably make sense for her powers to start going on the fritz in smallish rooms, especially if she's stressed, but not cancel completely until she's actually in a space small enough for her to feel claustrophobic. So yeah, I think you're fine to run it like that.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Aonar Faileas

[The Swan Dragon]

So it would be fine if just being in enclosed spaces sort of dampens her powers and extinguishes them if the space becomes too enclosed?

That's essentially how the weakness for my character (ThunderSpear) works. Being near the trigger dampens his powers and resistances, and actual contact cancels them.

[Comatose]

Hey Noelle! Sorry I didn't warn you about the High Epic thing. I didn't realize how strong your healing factor would need to be.

If you want to do healing, how would people feel if the healing factor was strong enough to protect her while flying, but not quick enough to protect her from other forms of death? So splats and crashes would be fine, but a bullet to the brain might not be? Or, maybe she's only immune to/heals from blunt impacts, but is vulnerable to piercing or other forms of damage. You'd have to nuance it a bit, but she could also be vulnerable to drowning or suffocation, poison, or burning? Those are some ways to keep the healing/pain thing, but still be kill able by others.

For example, I had an NPC epic who was resistant to projectile damage, but not to close combat.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Hey Noelle! Sorry I didn't warn you about the High Epic thing. I didn't realize how strong your healing factor would need to be.

If you want to do healing, how would people feel if the healing factor was strong enough to protect her while flying, but not quick enough to protect her from other forms of death? So splats and crashes would be fine, but a bullet to the brain might not be? Or, maybe she's only immune to/heals from blunt impacts, but is vulnerable to piercing or other forms of damage. You'd have to nuance it a bit, but she could also be vulnerable to drowning or suffocation, poison, or burning? Those are some ways to keep the healing/pain thing, but still be kill able by others.

For example, I had an NPC epic who was resistant to projectile damage, but not to close combat.

 

I like that. It's a good way to keep some of the healing and give her a way to get around the danger of G-forces, but it doesn't turn her into a High Epic. 

[Noelle]

Hey Noelle! Sorry I didn't warn you about the High Epic thing. I didn't realize how strong your healing factor would need to be.

If you want to do healing, how would people feel if the healing factor was strong enough to protect her while flying, but not quick enough to protect her from other forms of death? So splats and crashes would be fine, but a bullet to the brain might not be? Or, maybe she's only immune to/heals from blunt impacts, but is vulnerable to piercing or other forms of damage. You'd have to nuance it a bit, but she could also be vulnerable to drowning or suffocation, poison, or burning? Those are some ways to keep the healing/pain thing, but still be kill able by others.

For example, I had an NPC epic who was resistant to projectile damage, but not to close combat.

Having her heal from bludgeoning-type damage works for me! She might have a few other things going on if it's alright. Like being able to resist friction and such (for the wind resistance), or being able to breathe with little air (high altitude), but I'd be very happy with this if it's alright with everyone.

[Blackhoof]

Having her heal from bludgeoning-type damage works for me! She might have a few other things going on if it's alright. Like being able to resist friction and such (for the wind resistance), or being able to breathe with little air (high altitude), but I'd be very happy with this if it's alright with everyone.

 

sounds good

 

although there isn't a need to give her little extra abilities to help her fly- small resistances like that are usually part-and-parcel of a power.

 

For instance, we can assume that all pyrokinetic Epics are also immune to fire damage. Or that speed Epics are immune to the pain of wind resistance. So we can assume that flying Epics are resistant to wind resistance, and can breath at higher altitudes.

[Edgedancer]

Just curious. You might not remember me, but I used to be over there. I dropped out a while back though, so you may not remember me. 

 

Twi, I don't know if this should be a thing or not, but I'm willing to vouch for Noelle's writing, if that makes a difference at all or if recommendations should ever become a thing. 

Recommendations may not become a thing for the High Epic situation, which seems to have been solved anyway, but the question is if we count this for the trial period.

[Voidus]

sounds good

 

although there isn't a need to give her little extra abilities to help her fly- small resistances like that are usually part-and-parcel of a power.

 

For instance, we can assume that all pyrokinetic Epics are also immune to fire damage. Or that speed Epics are immune to the pain of wind resistance. So we can assume that flying Epics are resistant to wind resistance, and can breath at higher altitudes.

Unless Voidus made the Epic, in which case they usually don't have the passive resistance because it's fun to have a pyrokinetic Epic who gets severe burns whenever they use their power

Personally I'd quite like to see a circumstance-limited healing, we've seen a few with side effects like Nighthounds black smoke but I don't think we have an Epic who can only heal from something specific.

[Comatose]

sounds good

 

although there isn't a need to give her little extra abilities to help her fly- small resistances like that are usually part-and-parcel of a power.

 

For instance, we can assume that all pyrokinetic Epics are also immune to fire damage. Or that speed Epics are immune to the pain of wind resistance. So we can assume that flying Epics are resistant to wind resistance, and can breath at higher altitudes.

I think the reason Noelle is shying away from a parcel power is because she want her epic to be able to gift Vanillas the ability to fly without any of the resistances. If they were one power, wouldn't they have to be gifted as one?

This is something that has me confused about Profs abilities. In the third book, we see him start to use his force field power to their full extent, and they become green instead of invisible (like the bubble he used to contain Stormfront or whatever her name was). He also has the ability to make those spears, and I wasn't sure if that was still force fields or another power. Tia remembers he only gifted her the spears that one time, but she has been gifted force fields at other times, so are they separate, or could prof choose to only gift certain aspects of his power?

[Blackhoof]

Perhaps it is different levels of the power? Like at a minimum the field protects you, but is penetrable and diffused, thus being invisible. Add more power (more power than he gave the Reckoners) you can project and shape them.

Also consider that none of the Reckoners TRIED using the fields like that, and were trying to keep their existence low-key. Maybe if they had tried, they could have done some of that.