The Ring

[Mailliw73]

What is the Ring?

The Ring said we should choose you.

it sounds like they assign spren to surgebinders to form Nahel bonds to make them into KR. Does the Ring only assign Cultivationspren or Edgedancerspren?

[WeiryWriter]

In my opinion The Ring is the ruling body of just the Crystal Vine Spren like Wyndle.  I don't really have anything to support it beyond gut feeling though.

 

It is interesting that they might have some influence over when and who spren bond. It certainly sheds new light on things.

[Mailliw73]

I wonder if there is a group like that for each type of bonding spren or if The Ring governs all of them.

[Windrunner]

I agree with Weiry. For some reason, I kind of doubt that the Ring rules all spren, especially considering how Wyndle's people were the ones making the preparations for his transfer of consciousness.

[Argent]

Obviously there is very little we know about this, so theory we come up with will likely be more than a little baseless. Still, let me approach this as logically as I can.

 

We do know one thing for certain - they were the cause Wyndle was bound to Lift. Three options come to mind here:

• The Ring is the sole deciding factor when it comes to deciding which humans and spren are to be bound. There may be a restriction on the number and/or type of spren the Ring has control over. More on that a little later.
• The Ring has strong influence over the decision process. We know that Wyndle hoped for "a distinguished Iriali matron" or a "grandmother, and an accomplished gardener." It's possible that this Ring persuaded him that Lift would be a better choice in the long run, and he grudgingly accepted. Note that both in this and in the case before, Wyndle could have been a part of this Ring.
• The Ring has control/influence only over Wyndle. This feels less likely than the other two options, but it is possible that the following scenario is true. Only some spren - either specific individual spren, or specific types of spren - can form Nahel bonds. If only certain individual spren can form bonds, then maybe each one of those has a Ring associated with it - perhaps the other spren of the same type. To illustrate, imagine that Syl is the only Honorspren or windspren (whatever she and the relationship between the two is) is the only Honor- / windspren (at the moment?) that can form a Nahel bond. The other spren of her type - say, the other Honorspren - are her Ring, and they collectively decide which candidate-Radiant Syl should bind to. The other hypothetical option here, the one where only certain types of spren can form bonds (e.g. all Honorspren could, in theory, form a bond with a candidate-Radiant; flamespren, on the other hand, can't bond at all), is very similar. Except I imagine the Ring her would be more like a council of members of different spren types - maybe all types, maybe only a defined subset.

Alright. I can't think of anything else the Ring could be. I am almost completely certain it's a group of spren - and the options above are all the ones I can think of. Those options touched on the problem of the extent of this Ring's influence. Do they control only Wyndle? All spren of his type? Multiple types of spren? All spren? The only hint here comes from knowing that Lift has visited the Old Magic, the Nightwatcher herself. There are three key ideas I want to combine here:

• The Nightwatcher is probably Cultivation
• Many spren (though most likely not all of them) are at least in part of Cultivation.
• Wyndle strongly suggests that it was her visit to the Old Magic, or the Nightwatcher, that had made Lift such a prime candidate. She had been "blessed" by Wyndle's (figurative or literal) mother. Given Wyndle's nature-y... nature...  it isn't difficult to imagine that that his (and the Ring's) mother - very likely Cultivation - and the Nightwatcher are the same being. This is more of an offtopic reinforcement of that theory.

Those things in mind, I find it plausible to assume that the Ring consists of either spren that are exclusively of Cultivation, or of spren that are at least partially of her (though I'd bet they would have to be more Cultivation and less Honor). It's possible that Honorspren and Cultivationspren have "rulers" of some sort. The Ring could be them.

 

Finally, I am left to wonder - what does this Ring want to mold Lift into? Do they have an agenda of their own, or do they simply want to mold her into a "proper" Radiant, one that lives in harmony with the Ideals of her (future / hypothetical?) order?

[Shardlet]

@ Mailliw and Windrunner- Besides, one Ring to rule them all would be a bit corny.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Shardlet

[WeiryWriter]

I'm thinking each order of spren has their own method of choosing bond-mates.  Honorspren like Syl seem to do it on an individual basis, each spren choosing a bond-mate for themselves (at least that is how it appears, no mysterious body of honorspren showed up and said "No you can't bond with him").  Likewise I think Ym's spren is in the same boat.  She seems very much like Syl in the early days of her bond with Kaladin, she can't remember what is happening or what everything means.

[Stormfather]

I think it depends on if the spren are more related to Cultivation or Honor.  Though it is pure speculation I think that is why Ym's spren and Syl don't remember much (they are from honor who has died) and Wyndle is from Cultivation who is still alive but does has lost interest since Honor's death.  I think the Ring is a group of her spren that is trying to hold things together until she gets her stuff together.  I know it doesn't have much to support it, but it's my gut feeling in this.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Stormfather

[Argent]

Incidentally, Stormfather's reply is very similar to a theory that had been brewing in my head. Of course I took my sweet time putting it together and he beat me to it

[deddinty]

Since we're going on pure speculation for this, if the Ring consists of all spren, or even some, I could totally see Cusicesh, the giant Protector spren, being a part of it.  The faces it flashes are people that it observes and even judges to give information to the rest of the "Ring".  This spren definitely feels like it could be a great candidate for resulting more from Adolnasium than Honor or Cultivation as well.

 

I'm wondering though, do you think the spren lost their memories when Honor died? Or was it something to do with the radiant's abandoning their power (that feeling of betrayal?). Or could it just be the general transition to the physical realm?  Or some combination depending on the type of spren?  I can't wait to get answers to our questions.

[WeiryWriter]

I believe that some spren, like Syl, lost there memories because they got stuck in the Physical Realm when the Radiants severed their bonds.  Without the Nahel bond the spren lost the ability to "think" while in the Physical Realm.  Those that were in the Cognitive Realm did not suffer from that problem

[Mailliw73]

But, as Wyndle does have slight memory problems, maybe he lost some of his memory in either partially coming into the Physical realm or by bonding with Lift.

[WeiryWriter]

But, as Wyndle does have slight memory problems, maybe he lost some of his memory in either partially coming into the Physical realm or by bonding with Lift.

 

I think he attributes that to the transition between the Cognitive and Physical Realms.  Which makes sense.

[Argent]

But surely, not all windspren were bonded to Radiants? It is strongly suggested that all of them exhibit very short memory span, inability to comprehend complex thoughts, and playfulness. If the reason Syl lost her memories was because her previous Knight had severed their bond, they you must apply this rule to all of her kind - and that's a lot of spren.

[deddinty]

But Syl isn't a Windspren, but a cousin to windspren.  So there are plenty of flighty real windspren, then there's Syl Honorspren/Windspren.  

[WeiryWriter]

But surely, not all windspren were bonded to Radiants? It is strongly suggested that all of them exhibit very short memory span, inability to comprehend complex thoughts, and playfulness. If the reason Syl lost her memories was because her previous Knight had severed their bond, they you must apply this rule to all of her kind - and that's a lot of spren.

 

I'm saying nothing of the sort.  The conversation was about sentient spren, not normal spren like windspren.  Also, I'm pretty sure no windspren were bonded to Radiants, they are a separate sub-type as honorspren, like Syl.  They are cousins of a sort but not the same thing.

[Argent]

I am not sure I buy into the "cousins" idea. Spren (which is a word my phone now recognizes as a valid English word!) are very closely related to very specific... things. Honor is nowhere near wind on conceptual (Cognitive?) level. I don't see why they would look and even behave alike. Unless Kaladin's first impression of her was flat wrong - it's very possible that of he wasn't aware honorspren existed (which is very likely), he would think Syl to be whatever made sense at the time. But even so, this doesn't suggest relationship.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Argent

[deddinty]

The "cousin" thing comes from this AmA:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9fs6dc?context=3

 

2) Are all wind spren really just unbonded honor spren?

2) No, they are cousins to one another, but not exactly the same thing.

 

I can see the argument that there are many different "honorspren" and "cultivationspren", and WoB does add to that.

[Shardlet]

I think it depends on if the spren are more related to Cultivation or Honor.  Though it is pure speculation I think that is why Ym's spren and Syl don't remember much (they are from honor who has died) and Wyndle is from Cultivation who is still alive but does has lost interest since Honor's death.

 

I am disinclined to link Ym's spren particularly close to Honor.  One of Ym's surges is Regrowth which means he also has Growth (since Regrowth is an expansion of Growth).  This surge smacks heavily of Cultivation to me.

 

As to the cousin comments and quote, I think bonding spren are a base-type spren with a bit of extra on the side that makes them bonding spren.  I think this jives nicely with the cousin quote.  I explain the same idea more in depth in the What spren is Wyndle thread.

[Argent]

I did count Ym to be in the Cultivation half of the Double Eye. His spren is why, but she might know who the Dark Constable is and from what I understand she did prompt Ym to use an infused sphere, presumably so she and Ym can do some Surgebinding. That seems to imply a higher level of awareness and / or knowledge than anything we've seen from Syl for most of her post-bonding life.

[Shardlet]

They definitely do surgebinding.  Ym uses regrowth on the kid's feet.

[Argent]

I was referring specifically to his spren prompting him to do so when he is being chased by probably-Nalan. It's not a part of the transcript we have, somebody apparently attended a signing where he read the entire interlude, and spoiled the ending for us

[Shardlet]

I suppose I should have fleshed it out a bit.  I suspect that Ym and his friend have been together for a little while at least since he is consciously and intentionally using regrowth.  It was intended to be a support of your point that they had progressed to a somewhat substantial level in their bonding.

[Stormfather]

I was referring specifically to his spren prompting him to do so when he is being chased by probably-Nalan. It's not a part of the transcript we have, somebody apparently attended a signing where he read the entire interlude, and spoiled the ending for us

 

Which signing?

[Meg]

Which signing?

 

I'm to lazy to look through the stalking-forum, but here you find transcriptions of all not-steelhunt-readings.