What spren is Wyndle?

[Chaos]

He's almost like a scholar, in a way. I want to say it is something like logicspren, but obviously he does not have the same appearance as one. What spren do you think he is?

[Mailliw73]

So, for the other bindspren, we have truthsprenand honorspren; I think this would mean he is a lovespren or healingspren. I don't think he really fits either. What I think he could be is a helpspren, but that doesn't sound like a real spren.

[WeiryWriter]

I've just been referring to him as a "Crystal Vine Spren" since we don't know the name of his sub-type.  I'm having a hard time relating him to logicspren though, the appearance is all wrong.  Of course appearance could have nothing to do with it.  I'm thinking though they will have a somewhat esoteric name like the Cryptics.

[Mailliw73]

Cryptics are also called truthspren, though, so I think Wyndle-type spren will also have a simple name.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Mailliw73

[Shardlet]

Judging by his comments about gardening back home as well as his vine-like manifestation, I would tentatively call him a cultivationspren proper.  In the same way that Syl is an honorspren.

 

@mailliw-  I haven't seen anything to indicate that truthspren is an actual alternate name for the cryptics.  I'm pretty sure that that was just a conventional name.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Shardlet

[WeiryWriter]

Cryptics are also called truthspren, though, so I think Wyndle-type spren will also have a simple name.

 

Truthspren isn't canon.  It was a name Brandon gave us because we wanted something to refer to them but he didn't want to reveal their name yet.  Cryptics is what they refer to themselves as in-world.

 

I guess I could see him being a cultivationspren.

[Windrunner]

I've been calling him a vinespren in my head, personally.

 

It's interesting that he refers to Cultivation/Nightwatcher as his mother though.

[Shardlet]

That also suggests that he is very close to Cultivation on the Cultivation/Honor-spren-composition-scale.  Which is another reason why I think Wyndle is a cultivationspren.

 

Edit: given the spren we know of so far, I would guess that the base spren-type for Wyndle would be a lifespren in the same way that Syl's base spren-type is a windspren.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Shardlet

[Argent]

Cultivationspren is what I've been thinking about too, for reasons similar to the ones Shardlet listed. He seems to be much closer to Cultivation than to Honor on the C-H spectrum; so much closer, in fact, that there may be no Honor Investiture in him. He is obviously related to and interested in plants, and Cultivation kind of goes hand-in-hand with the implied "of plant life" after her name. He also almost certainly refers to her as "mother." 

[WeiryWriter]

I'm definitely of the opinion that most spren think of Cultivation and Honor as their parents, since in a way they are.  Most spren are a result of the mingling of their powers which is kind-of like reproduction...

Edited October 22, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[Argent]

I wouldn't say that most spren are the magical offspring of the two Shards. We know some are of Honor, some are of Cultivation, some are of both, and some apparently are of Adonalsium itself. Nothing I've seen suggests ratios.

[Mailliw73]

/>Truthspren isn't canon. It was a name Brandon gave us because we wanted something to refer to them but he didn't want to reveal their name yet. Cryptics is what they refer to themselves as in-world.

Oh, sorry, for the error on my part. I thought that was canon.

I think he is fully of Cultivation, that's just speculation on my part, but that's what I feel. There's also that line that she(Cultivation) hasn't been the same since he died. I assume that the he is Honor, and the way Wyndle says it makes it sound like, to me at least, that she loved Honor. Did anyone else think that too?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Mailliw73

[LightReader]

Maybe Wyndle could be something like growth-spren, as that is related to the surge Lift uses.  Or maybe something more related to the loving/healing attributes.  Maybe a teaching-spren, as he does seem to have an interest in Lift's education, even if she doesn't. 

 

I'm also interested in the ways Wyndle is different from Syl. Wyndle's complaining about how he came to be bonded with Lift, because a group of spren (assuming that the Ring Wyndle refers to is in fact a group of spren) apparently decided she was a good candidate, indicates that these kind of spren already possess a significant amount of self-awareness and decision making ability, not to mention some kind of leadership system among themselves.  The Cryptics appear to be similarly self-aware, so maybe the more cultivation related spren are more cognizant of themselves before their bonds than the more honor-related spren like Syl.  That could be related to Honor being splintered and Tanavast's death while so far Cultivation appears to be intact.

 

So perhaps in the same way that Syl is an Honorspren, perhaps Wyndle is a Cultivationspren.  Its not a complete theory or anything and I'm too lazy to do all the research required to formulate it in its entirety,  but I'm of the inclination that there are subsets of Honorspren and Cultivationspren.  Something like Syl is a wind-type Honorspren, maybe Wyndle is a growth type Cultivationspren, and the Cryptics are truth type Cultivation spren?  This whole thing needs more thinking through, since I can see arguments for the Cryptics being in the Honor category more than the Cultivation category, and vice versa.

 

Edit: Heh, it took me so long to write all this that by the time I hit post the ideas had all been discussed already and I just didn't see it until the page refreshed. I guess that's what people call getting ninja'd. 

Edited October 22, 2013 by LightReader

[deddinty]

I like cultivationspren for Wyndle right now.  I've personally been calling him growthspren, because he can grow in his unique way. 

 

I'm not personally of the opinion that there are multiple types of "Honorspren" with subsets within them.  I like to cite the Dalinar's vision of the king and how he says "not all spren are as discerning as honorspren".  While this can be interpreted either way, it seems to me like he's saying very few Nahal bonds are with honorspren.

[Stormfather]

I vote creationspren.  I like it

[deddinty]

Unfortunately we already have creationspren. We see them when Shallan draws, and they aren't vine like.

[Argent]

It's starting to feel like Honorspren and Cultivationspren are not real spren in the way that flamespren, or rotspren, or musicspren are. It feels more like they are a... rank. So you can be a windspren, and you choose your Radiant based on his leadership and desire to protect. He starts displaying impressive sense of honor, however, and you level up. Congratulations, you are now an Honospren. Nohadon's comment about Honorspren being discerning (and more specifically, Brandon's comment that "there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren") suggests that the situation is almost like "Okay, this Radiant has reached Honor level 9000. One more and his windspren gets to be Honorspren!" Similarly, the other end of the spectrum would depend not on being honorable, but on having a desire to cultivate, to develop, to improve things. 

 

I definitely see issues with the specifics of this theory, but the general idea sounds mostly alright to me.

[Mailliw73]

Sounds like the rep system to me. Now I want there to be an Honorspren rank.

[deddinty]

I've seen the theories of certain windspren being so called "leveled up" to being honorspren, but I just don't buy it. It seems to me there's spren for almost everything else in the world, so it makes sense that there's a type of spren attracted specifically to displays of great honor.  The fact she resembles a windspren doesn't mean she was originally one, in my opinion.  

 

Where is that quote of Brandon's Ardent?  I don't think I've seen that one anywhere.

[Kurkistan]

It's starting to feel like Honorspren and Cultivationspren are not real spren in the way that flamespren, or rotspren, or musicspren are. It feels more like they are a... rank. So you can be a windspren, and you choose your Radiant based on his leadership and desire to protect. He starts displaying impressive sense of honor, however, and you level up. Congratulations, you are now an Honospren. Nohadon's comment about Honorspren being discerning (and more specifically, Brandon's comment that "there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren") suggests that the situation is almost like "Okay, this Radiant has reached Honor level 9000. One more and his windspren gets to be Honorspren!" Similarly, the other end of the spectrum would depend not on being honorable, but on having a desire to cultivate, to develop, to improve things. 

 

I definitely see issues with the specifics of this theory, but the general idea sounds mostly alright to me.

 

I doubt this. People disagree about who is really an X all the time without there being a ranking system. Especially if there is a C–H scale, I imagine that those closest to H are leery of letting more "Cultivationy" spren call themselves Honorspren, or the like.

 

EDIT: 2048 posts! A nice round number!

 

Too bad is was a mean nit-picking comment instead of a nice fluffy one like all my other posts are.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Kurkistan

[11thorderknight]

Has anyone else noticed a pattern in the appearance of Nahel bonding spren?

 

Kaladin, Windrunner - Windspren

Lift, Edgedancer - growing vines, with crystals mixed in

Ym, order 5 - Lightspren (Ym's own description)

 

When we only had Syl as our reference, I assumed that bonding spren would appear as something related to the Essence of the Order they bound to. However, both Wyndle and Ym's spren don't fit the pattern. Instead, they seem related to one of the two Surges available to their respective orders. This also fits the pattern of the Order's names, in that the names seem much more closely aligned to one of the available Surges than the other. Strangely, however, the spren-surge and the name-surge are different. 

 

Examples:

 

Windrunners; so named, presumably, because they can "run on the wind", i.e. fly. They do this using Surge 10/1, Gravity. Yet, Syl's appearance is that of a windspren, which is much more related to Surge 1/2, Pressure.

 

Edgedancers; so named because they can both stick to things and slide on things using Friction. Lift's spren, while showing a few crystal qualities, looks like a growing vine, clearly related to Growth.

 

Palah's order; don't know their name, but I'll bet it has something to do with growth and/or healing. Ym's spren looks like a lightspren.

 

Lightweavers; clearly named after Surge 5/6, light. Don't know what a transformation-spren would look like, and I'd argue that the Cryprics are....well....cryptic enough at this point that we can't make any conclusions based on their appearance. But they certainly are not lightspren.

 

Elsecallers; the name, while odd, obviously references change, i.e. soulcasting. (calling something "else" into existence than what's currently there). We don't know what Jasnah's spren looks like, other than that it has something to do with shadows. Venturing off into total speculation-land here, but there are lots of references in fantasy literature to shadows being related to travel, especially in another dimension. Also..."Shadesmar?" 

 

Bondsmiths; reference to the "bonds" perhaps, that give objects their shape/structure? This is the first order who's name seems to be related to their clockwise surge instead of their counterclockwise one. (i.e. no one named after transportation).

 

Stonewards; we don't know what Surge 9/10 is, so not much room to speculate on.

 

Order 10; no info.

[Mailliw73]

Skybreakers seem to be related to the division surge but that would mean their Spren-name would have to deal with pressure but windrunners already does, assuming your theory is correct.

[Shardlet]

I personally suspect that bonding spren are basically a base-type spren with extra umph on the side.  So, Syl is a windspren as her base-type, but an honorspren because of the extra.  This extra bit gives her heightened self-awareness with a distinct personality as well as the capability to bond with a person and provide them with enhanced ability via some symbiotic relationship.  From Wyndle's comments, it seems he retained his full self-awareness because he came directly to Lift from the cognitive to initiate the bond.  It is even conceivable that the first stages of bonding were accomplished while Wyndle was in the cognitive realm.  In contrast, Syl has apparently been floating around the physical for quite some time and slowly regained her self-awareness and knowledge as her bond with Kaladin progressed.  She manifested initially as a windspren (her base-type) because she needed that bond to access those portions of herself that make her more than a windspren.

 

As to Shadesmar being called Shadesmar, seems to me that it essentially means sea (mar) of ghosts (shades) or something like that.  This seems an apt interpretation since the portions of Shadesmar that correspond to land in the physical, are made up of beads that are at least representations of the cognitive aspects of everything on Roshar.  Each bead presumabley has the ability to communicate in some manner (as shown by the goblet that Shallan soulcast).  It is essentially a sea of ghosts.

 

Edit: As to Wyndle's teaching efforts, these seem to be principally concerned with training her to use her new abilities.  He attempts to give her a technical understanding while she is only interested in a practical understanding.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Shardlet

[Windrunner]

I don't see Wyndle as a cultivationspren, mostly because I feel like those would go on the opposite end of the chart to the honorspren, and we're all pretty certain at this point that the Edgedancers are order 4, not 6. Not sure if the cryptics really seem to be cultivationspren though. It's an interesting question.

 

Also, honorspren and windspren are confirmed to be "cousins" whatever that means for spren.

[Argent]

Are those two in particular confirmed to be cousins, or are all spren said to be so? I seem to recall theories from years ago that revolved around the idea that all spren were once one single entity - and the core of that theory was a WoB that all spren are cousins. TheoryLand is being silly with searching (lately? for me?), so I can't find the answer myself quickly enough.

 

I also don't remember the split of the Double Eye between Honor and Preservation being left/right. This, I think, came from the the idea of the two dragonwasps - larkin? - meeting and merging, and the assumptions that they represent the two Shards. I was coming from a different split - one where Honor is top half and Cultivation, the bottom. This would place Jasnah, Shallan, Lift, and Ym in Cultivation's domain, with Jasnah being closest to Honor, followed by Shallan and Lift, Ym trailing behind, associated most closely with Cultivation. Which, I admit, could be a problem...

Edited October 23, 2013 by Argent