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What Happens if Shallan draws Kaladin


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I can't take credit for this idea. It was Zen at Stormlight Archive Reread that came up with it and I just wanted to take the discussion here. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/06/the-way-of-kings-reread-chapters-16-and-17#355750

If Shallan did draw a picture of Kaladin, would syl be on it?

I'm looking forward to the situation as it could potentially be the event that causes them to start working together and start searching for others with abilities. I also think that it could happen quite soon after Shallan comes to the shattered plains as they will probably meet quite soon due to the close relationship between Dalinar and Jasnah. Kaladin should be quite a novelty as a darkened captain responsible for Dalinars guard and also with command over a whole battalion and should be an early target for Shallans Drawing.

Shallans abilities could be the thing that could make it possible to fast find enough knight radians before the desolation destroys everything.

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This would be extremely interesting.  I think there's no doubt she'd depict Syl.  As for his being a KR detector, tho I think It'd be pretty demeaning work for Shallan it would be cool if Kaladin is once again a special case.  He has such an up front and obvious bond with Syl because he's Kaladin but other potential KR don't even know they have honorspren following them and causing mischeif.

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I could see it going either way, but I agree it would be very likely that Syl would show up in a drawing of Kaladin.  Of course, only if she was next to Kaladin when Shallan creates her Memory.  If she wasn't there then she wouldn't show up.  Which is why I don't think she will be a KR detector, during the early days of their bond Syl did not spend that much time with Kaladin.  By the time that she did, he knew something strange was up.

 

In my opinion Kaladin and Bridge Four will let it be known that if something strange is happening with spren the person involved should go see them or something.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how reliable Shallan would be as a KR-finder. She can see things other people can't, but she can't see what isn't there, and bonded spren aren't shoulder-dragons.

 

But even if that weren't an issue, she'd still have to recognize the bonded spren for what it is. I'm not sure how she'd do that from a single Memory, because Syl still looks like a windspren: a little more complex and detailed than most, perhaps, but I'm not sure that's enough to be especially remarkable. If Syl were to consistently hang around Kaladin in a whole bunch of Memories, that would certainly attract attention, but it would require Shallan to take a lot of Memories and draw a lot of sketches before she even knew there was something to look for.

 

Then again, we've only seen Book 1, and Syl has already gone through quite a lot of transformation. It's possible that over time, she'll start to look even more distinctive than before, and that could clue Shallan in much sooner.

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It's an interesting possibility that Shallan draws Kaladin and Syl.  There are some really interesting scenarios that Brandon could create. 

One possibility is at one of the King's Banquets.  I can imagine Shallan drawing away shyly (is that a word) and attracting attention for the sheer number of creationspren.  What if she somehow got drawn into one of those "duels" that the women engage in and started drawing a spren that most other people can't see?. 

She could just do her own drawing privately, find Syl there and ask Jasnah about it. 

 

It's fun to imagine the interactions, given the possibilities Brandon has set up:

  1. Kaladin hates lighteyes.
  2. Kaladin may have killed her brother.
  3. Kaladin should probably tell Dalinar about his abilities, so they can plan his protection better.  Particularly since Kaladin has seen Szeth in the highstorm dream. 
  4. Kaladin is likely to be sitting in on readings from tWoK.  He could ask to have it read to him.  Shallan could be assigned the task. 
  5. Jasnah and Dalinar could compare notes.  Even if Dalinar doesn't know about Kaladin's abilities, if he describes the Tower battle to her, she could see that something unusual was going on.  If he describes seeing Kaladin glowing, she might know what it means.
  6. If they ever get to communicating with the Parshendi, the Parshendi could ask about the surgebinder/Radiant (not sure of the translation for "Neshua Kadal"). 
  7. Or they could have the big attempted assassination where Kaladin surprises everybody not in Bridge 4 by flying around super-fast and glowing while interfering with Szeth's actions and Shallan whips a Shardblade out of nowhere. 

 

For that matter, what if she draws Cryptics around king Elhokar?

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My first thought was: yes, she would be seen, as same as Shallan is depicting the cryptics or Elhokar sees them in mirrors.

But though I'd like my thinking to be right, I'm not really sure. 

 

Kurkistan: 4) Could Syl, or any other type of Spren, be seen in a photograph?

 

BS: 4) Excellent question, and I like the way you phrase it. Let's give this one a little more time before I get into the specifics of whether spren are manifesting physically or not.

 

Source: Ama-Reddit 15.04.13  Opening post, inside first spoiler-part. 

 

 

I -- with my no-knowledge about physics -- understand this, as only physically manifested objects can be banned on a photograph. 

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One possibility is at one of the King's Banquets.  I can imagine Shallan drawing away shyly (is that a word) and attracting attention for the sheer number of creationspren.  What if she somehow got drawn into one of those "duels" that the women engage in and started drawing a spren that most other people can't see?

 

In that case, I pity the poor doomed fool who dared to challenge her. I am quite certain Shallan will be drawn into a "duel" of drawing exactly once.

 

But, on the topic of syl, I think it's highly likely that she would be able to draw her. THe only way I can think this may not work is if one needs to be honorable to see an honorspren (unless it wants to be seen). In that case, shallan is far from honorable. She don't appear to be a bad person, but decent people will commit bad stuff as long as they can rationalize it into not being bad. shallan killed her father, stole a shardblade, stole a soulcaster with the purpose of using it for a scam. She had good reasons all the times, but it is possible she won't be able to see syl, even with her memory. I wonder if kaladin will try to keep the secret or will admit it.

 

Then I imagine the possibility of szeth coming in to kill dalinar. I think it would be quite amusing, in a "what the hell" fashion. there's this group of seemingly helpless targets: 3 women, 1 common guard, one retired ex-shardbeared without shards; adolin would be the only one szeth would expect to be vaguely dangerous, but he would have no time to put on his armor, and he would probably die before having the time to summon his sword.

Then one of the girls pop out a shardblade, the other start soulcasting stuff, navani probably carries around some device useful for such an occasionnote, the common guard is actually a windrunner, adolin is probably the best shardbearer duelist in alethkar and would likely be a challenge to szeth by himself, and dalinar has probably some kind of latent power too, and what better time to start manifesting it?

I would really love to see szeth face then. Maybe we could get a depiction of it in the cover of the book :D ?

 

note: why scientist in fiction are such badasses and in real life are mostly helpless nerds? I mean, I am a chemist, and I would know plenty of ways to poison somebody or make stuff explode, but I don't carry any dangerous compound on me for self defence. Even if I did, if someone pointed a gun at me, and i poisoned him, he would still have all the time to kill me before the poison start working. And if I managed to survive, there's a good chance i got poisoned myself too, since i would be close and wouldn't have the time to don protective gear. Life just has no respect for the narrative conventions :D

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Ugh. This whole thread reminds me of how much I'm actually dreading book 2. If this were a Wheel of Time book (or most books, for that matter), Dalinar won't be telling Kaladin about his storm dreams any time soon, and Kaladin won't be telling Dalinar and crew about his powers.

I actually do think Shallan will end up drawing Syl. I just don't think she'll get to figure out what it means until like book 9.

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Ugh. This whole thread reminds me of how much I'm actually dreading book 2. If this were a Wheel of Time book (or most books, for that matter), Dalinar won't be telling Kaladin about his storm dreams any time soon, and Kaladin won't be telling Dalinar and crew about his powers.

I actually do think Shallan will end up drawing Syl. I just don't think she'll get to figure out what it means until like book 9.

One of the biggest things that built resentment between WoT books was that we'd collect prophecies from (say) books 1-5, then book 6 would come out and none of them were fulfilled. Then 7 would come out, and none of them were fulfilled. It's very frustrating. Brandon's said he thinks most mysteries should be resolved after a book or two, not go on and on, but I don't know if he's motivated by the same frustration I'm talking about, or if it's something else for him.

I like to think he's enlightened to longer series meaning "more plot", not "same plot, but slower and in great detail". So Shallan should discover Syl as soon as she would in a 3-book series, and after that Brandon will go on to make up more cool new things. I hope!

Edited by Morsk
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Ugh. This whole thread reminds me of how much I'm actually dreading book 2. If this were a Wheel of Time book (or most books, for that matter), Dalinar won't be telling Kaladin about his storm dreams any time soon, and Kaladin won't be telling Dalinar and crew about his powers.

 

Then shallan would draw syl and think it is an evil spirit and mistrust kaladin for that, and kaladin will think dalinar has his own schemes and will interfere with them just to spite him, navani will try to manipulate dalinr into doing something else, elokhar will not trust any of them and will exile them all, and no character will ever talk openly to each other, and if they talk they will always come to the wrong conclusions andd think they cannot trust each other...

I liked the wheel of time, but really, I so wanted to kick all the main characters for being such dumbasses.

 

However, it on't appear to be sanderson's writing style. I guess kalandin's power will be revealed to most other main characters, if not on book 2, no later than book 3.

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And then the descendants of the crew of the Wandersail would come back from around the Origin, with an absurdly evil culture and preposterously large collective ego. We will then be treated to far, far too much conflict with this group, when considered in proportion to the whole "dark god about to kill us all" threat that rightly ought to be slightly more central to the plot.

Edited by Kurkistan
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If Shallan did draw a picture of Kaladin, would syl be on it?

Shallans abilities could be the thing that could make it possible to fast find enough knight radians before the desolation destroys everything.

As far as detecting Radiants goes wouldn't Rock's ability to see spren like Syl be more useful?  Given that he can just see them and doesn't have to do any drawing.  I'm just sayin.... :)

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/>/>And then the descendants of the crew of the Wandersail would come back from around the Origin, with an absurdly evil culture and preposterously large collective ego. We will then be treated to far, far too much conflict with this group, when considered in proportion to the whole "dark god about to kill us all" threat that rightly ought to be slightly more central to the plot.

Wheel of Time reference?

Edit: stupid question now that I've read more of the thread.

Edited by Leuthie
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As far as detecting Radiants goes wouldn't Rock's ability to see spren like Syl be more useful?  Given that he can just see them and doesn't have to do any drawing.  I'm just sayin.... :)

 

Very true! Why didn't I think of that? :wacko:

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Very true! Why didn't I think of that? :wacko:

 

 

Because there was really no kind of connection between Rock and Elhokar? Now, being part of Dalinar's guard, they might meet as for I think Dalinar will be around Elhokar often in the next time given Dalinar's statement to Elhokar and what he told Kal. Then, I think, if Brandon likes us :), maybe we will see whether Rock sees the cryptics or not. 

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Because there was really no kind of connection between Rock and Elhokar? Now, being part of Dalinar's guard, they might meet as for I think Dalinar will be around Elhokar often in the next time given Dalinar's statement to Elhokar and what he told Kal. Then, I think, if Brandon likes us :), maybe we will see whether Rock sees the cryptics or not. 

 

Although, Rock refuses to fight.  So, I would not expect him to participate in the guard.  I am curious to see what role Rock and Lopen will play in the new arrangements since neither of them are fighters.

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I -- with my no-knowledge about physics -- understand this, as only physically manifested objects can be banned on a photograph. 

I think he's actually referring to the possibility that the spren are, for lack of a better word, imaginary -- that they only exist as a part the collective consciousness of the sentient beings around them. I do believe that between this quote and a number of others, Brandon has strongly implied that spren are created by human minds.

What happens if Shallan draws Kaladin? Well, depends if she has enough white mana to play him or not.

 

I see Kaladin as white/red. He has too little respect for laws and rules to be mono-white.

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I don't know that I would go so far as to say Brandon implies spren are created by the human mind.  I think, given the fact that the same spren can seen by multiple individuals and the fact that Syl has a distinct personality that is perceived by Rock as well as Kaladin, it may be more accurate to say that Spren can only be perceived by a sentient mind that is in their presence (i.e., a camera, having no sentience, would not be able to record a spren because it cannot be perceived by the film [or for you younguns, a sensor]). 

 

But that is only if a camera cannot record a spren in a photograph.  Recall, Brandon does not tell us whether a spren would show up in a photograph.

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Syl clearly can physically affect things in the physical realm (such as in the leaf example you pointed out).  But, does she visibly manifest in the physical realm or is she visible due to some cognitive resonance between her and Kaladin.  This would explain why nobody else can see her (except in a couple of notable cases).

 

I would liken it to the movie "ParaNorman" where Norman can see the spirits of dead people whereas no one else can.  Norman has some kind of resonance with spirits which are present in the physical realm which allows him to see perceive them while those lacking such a resonance (everyone else) cannot.

 

On Roshar, perhaps mundane spren have a general cognitive resonance with everyone while sentient spren have a more selective cognitive resonance.

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