Fullborn or Full Radiant

[StanLemon]

36 minutes ago, CMac716 said:

Has anyone considered if the Radiant Plate could simply form around the Fullborn and decide they have to stand still? Could they harm the Plate somehow?

I doubt it would work unless the Fullborn let it happen. A Fullborn would have access to greater strength than the Plate has. Plus they could move faster than the spren making up the Plate could move. In direct combat, the Fullborn only loses if they aren't taking things seriously 

[Frustration]

49 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I doubt it would work unless the Fullborn let it happen. A Fullborn would have access to greater strength than the Plate has. Plus they could move faster than the spren making up the Plate could move. In direct combat, the Fullborn only loses if they aren't taking things seriously 

Um, I don't think we have a known limit to spren speeds, and given that they have no mass it very well could be the speed of light.

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

Um, I don't think we have a known limit to spren speeds, and given that they have no mass it very well could be the speed of light.

Considering that the sprens are still partially in the CR where they do have their limits, I don't think that sprens in PR can move without restrictions. The biggest one is how people have viewed them for ages. 

[CMac716]

Speaking of the Cog realm, wouldn't the Radiant be able to transport themselves in or out, or just make the approach from the Cog realm and soulcast the air to stone before the fullborn knows what's going on? Or potentially do it from the Cog realm, never put themselves in danger to begin with. 

[alder24]

Just now, CMac716 said:

Speaking of the Cog realm, wouldn't the Radiant be able to transport themselves in or out, or just make the approach from the Cog realm and soulcast the air to stone before the fullborn knows what's going on? Or potentially do it from the Cog realm, never put themselves in danger to begin with. 

Yes, full Radiant can just transport himself to CR via either perpendicularity or transportation surge and soulcast even Fullborn metalminds from CR. Full Radiant can fight fully from CR, where Fullborn can't fight him. 

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Considering that the sprens are still partially in the CR where they do have their limits, I don't think that sprens in PR can move without restrictions. The biggest one is how people have viewed them for ages. 

They do have limits, like not being able to move through objects, but they can move in the PR in ways they can't  in the CR, so I don't think Speed of light is off the table, especially with how fast they can move when summoned as a blade.

[StanLemon]

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They do have limits, like not being able to move through objects, but they can move in the PR in ways they can't  in the CR, so I don't think Speed of light is off the table, especially with how fast they can move when summoned as a blade.

 

Considering that no spren in the PR has moved with anything resembling such speed, it's unlikely. Maybe a lightspren or something similar could but its unlikely others could. 

As far as being summoned as Blades go. That's always seemed more like a SR transition through the Connection to their wielder. 

[Frustration]

Just now, StanLemon said:

 

Considering that no spren in the PR has moved with anything resembling such speed, it's unlikely. Maybe a lightspren or something similar could but its unlikely others could. 

As far as being summoned as Blades go. That's always seemed more like a SR transition through the Connection to their wielder. 

Syl zips away as ribbons of light all the time.

[StanLemon]

Just now, Frustration said:

Syl zips away as ribbons of light all the time.

She takes the form of ribbons of light. Ribbons of light that are at very much still noticeable speeds

[alder24]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

They do have limits, like not being able to move through objects, but they can move in the PR in ways they can't  in the CR, so I don't think Speed of light is off the table, especially with how fast they can move when summoned as a blade.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that if spren is too far away from Radiant, he can't summon his blade or it takes longer? With the speed of light, the distance shouldn't matter, at least for movement of spren, there are different factors here as well.

Also Shallan used process of summoning and cancelling it before summoned to navigate Pattern to her location. This very much tells us that it's not fully instantaneous - which effectively would be if sprens were moving with the speed of light. 1 meter away or 1000 km away is still the same with the speed of light for human senses.

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that if spren is too far away from Radiant, he can't summon his blade or it takes longer? With the speed of light, the distance shouldn't matter, at least for movement of spren, there are different factors here as well.

Distance doesn't matter

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Also Shallan used process of summoning and cancelling it before summoned to navigate Pattern to her location. This very much tells us that it's not fully instantaneous - which effectively would be if sprens were moving with the speed of light. 1 meter away or 1000 km away is still the same with the speed of light for human senses.

Shallan just didn't complete the process of summoning, more of half-willing it to her than anything.

4 hours ago, StanLemon said:

She takes the form of ribbons of light. Ribbons of light that are at very much still noticeable speeds

And we know that how?

[StanLemon]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Distance doesn't matter

Shallan just didn't complete the process of summoning, more of half-willing it to her than anything.

And we know that how?

WoR Chapter 5

Quote

When he said nothing more, Syl sighed and zipped into the air, becoming a ribbon of light. She followed him up there, moving between gusts of wind. 

WoR Chapter 9

Quote

Syl zipped off Kaladin's finger, becoming a ribbon of light and flittering over to Rock.

WoR Chapter 32

Quote

"Kaladin!" Syl said, her form a ribbon of light

WoR Chapter 46

Quote

As he made his way toward Bridge Nineteen, Syl floated past on a current of wind in the form of a small patch of mist. She melded into a ribbon of light and zipped around him in circles before coming to rest on his shoulder.

These among many others demonstrate that she is turning into a ribbon, not because of any after effect of light from her movement. And Kaladin has never had any trouble following her movements. Many descriptions sound as if she moves at the speed of the wind though that I can't for sure confirm but the fastest she has moved in the books is slightly faster than Kaladin lashing himself. 

[Tglassy]

I'd go with Fullborn.  

First, Stormlight.  It's just too limiting.  Everything the Radiant can do besides Plate and Blade needs Stormlight.  While having PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWER is tempting, you sitll need Stormlight.  Take that away, and youve got fancy plate and blade.  

Mistborn/Feruchemist/Hemalurgist fuels everything with metal, most of which is cheap.  I'm not even that interested in the whole compounding Youth thing.  Just having near infinite strength, speed, healing, mental speed, never needing to eat or sleep or breath again...I mean, that's insane.  And also being able to manipulate metals, manipulate people's emotions, hide myself from other's senses, warp time around me, see my own future...it's just too much.  

Yeah, Radiants can control gravity, teleport, create illusions, heal themselves and others, burn things, control friction, etc.  But...all of that uses Stormlight.  And you'd need A LOT of it.  Fullborn compounding basically makes their own fuel.  

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

I'd go with Fullborn.  

First, Stormlight.  It's just too limiting.  Everything the Radiant can do besides Plate and Blade needs Stormlight.  While having PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWER is tempting, you sitll need Stormlight.  Take that away, and youve got fancy plate and blade.  

Mistborn/Feruchemist/Hemalurgist fuels everything with metal, most of which is cheap.  I'm not even that interested in the whole compounding Youth thing.  Just having near infinite strength, speed, healing, mental speed, never needing to eat or sleep or breath again...I mean, that's insane.  And also being able to manipulate metals, manipulate people's emotions, hide myself from other's senses, warp time around me, see my own future...it's just too much.  

Yeah, Radiants can control gravity, teleport, create illusions, heal themselves and others, burn things, control friction, etc.  But...all of that uses Stormlight.  And you'd need A LOT of it.  Fullborn compounding basically makes their own fuel.  

Full Radiants can just open a perpendicularity whenever you need stormlight.

[Tglassy]

Just now, Frustration said:

Full Radiants can just open a perpendicularity whenever you need stormlight.

That is actually true.  And in fact, not even needed.  Dalinar can charge radiants and gemstones without opening a perpendicularity. 

Hmm.  So a full Radiant basically has infinite Stormlight.  THAT's interesting...

[SPECTRE120]

If someone was a FullBornRadiant, the Cosmere would be done for.

Soulcasting + compounding = Infinite metal

Steelrunner + Lashings + Slider + Edgedancer = near-light speeds

Gold + Radiant healing + Atium Compounding = Invincibility

Duralumin + Atium + Chromium compounding = Future sight

Nicrosil Compounding = Infinite Investiture

 

I don't even think a shard could kill that.

 

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, SPECTRE120 said:

If someone was a FullBornRadiant, the Cosmere would be done for.

Soulcasting + compounding = Infinite metal

Steelrunner + Lashings + Slider + Edgedancer = near-light speeds

Gold + Radiant healing + Atium Compounding = Invincibility

Duralumin + Atium + Chromium compounding = Future sight

Nicrosil Compounding = Infinite Investiture

 

I don't even think a shard could kill that.

An elantrian with enough prep time, or someone with a Dawnshard could do it.

[Tglassy]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

An elantrian with enough prep time, or someone with a Dawnshard could do it.

I don't know about that.  You'd have to be able to hit something that can move and think at the speed of light at all times, and which has infinite luck.  

That's another thing.  Fullborn have infinite Fortune.  Yeah.  Even with all the cool crap a Full Radiant could do, I'd still go with the Full Metalborn.  

[Frustration]

54 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

I don't know about that.  You'd have to be able to hit something that can move and think at the speed of light at all times, and which has infinite luck.  

That's another thing.  Fullborn have infinite Fortune.  Yeah.  Even with all the cool crap a Full Radiant could do, I'd still go with the Full Metalborn.  

Fortune is future sight, not luck.

And you can't move or think at the speed of light, going faster than sound would be a once in several year event, and only for a few seconds at that.

[Tglassy]

49 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Fortune is future sight, not luck.

And you can't move or think at the speed of light, going faster than sound would be a once in several year event, and only for a few seconds at that.

But a Fullborn CAN think that fast, because of Zinc.  And with Compounding, they can can ramp up the amount of speed in their metalminds so it lasts as pretty long time.  Yeah, moving that fast will drain it, but no where near as much as one who just has feruchemical speed.  

And the Coppermind says "A chromium Ferring is known as a Spinner. Chromium is used to store Fortune. A Spinner filling a chromiummind will be unlucky, and can tap it to increase their luck."  Which is why I said Luck.  

[Frustration]

26 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

But a Fullborn CAN think that fast, because of Zinc.  And with Compounding, they can can ramp up the amount of speed in their metalminds so it lasts as pretty long time.  Yeah, moving that fast will drain it, but no where near as much as one who just has feruchemical speed.  

That still won't overcome the speed of light, or even get to it. Unless you literally had unlimited, and I mean real unlimited, not just I can get more, the loss you experience from compressing an attribute will eventually become too great to overcome.

27 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

And the Coppermind says "A chromium Ferring is known as a Spinner. Chromium is used to store Fortune. A Spinner filling a chromiummind will be unlucky, and can tap it to increase their luck."  Which is why I said Luck.  

There is no such thing as luck, the law of causality means that it cannot exist.

[Werewolff Studios]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

37 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

And the Coppermind says "A chromium Ferring is known as a Spinner. Chromium is used to store Fortune. A Spinner filling a chromiummind will be unlucky, and can tap it to increase their luck."  Which is why I said Luck.  

There is no such thing as luck, the law of causality means that it cannot exist.

The term 'luck' from a cosmere perspective is moreso being drawn from a more basic understanding of the property of Fortune. You're right, Fortune is more about future sight, but it's also not something like Atium where the Spinner can 'see' the future.

Our best look at the properties of Fortune is probably Hoid, who himself has stated that he often finds himself in the right place at the right time, without knowing specifically what he's there for. I would argue that 'luck', as a concept, is similar - finding yourself in the right place at the right time, and taking the opportunity presented to you there. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Werewolff Studios said:

The term 'luck' from a cosmere perspective is moreso being drawn from a more basic understanding of the property of Fortune. You're right, Fortune is more about future sight, but it's also not something like Atium where the Spinner can 'see' the future.

Our best look at the properties of Fortune is probably Hoid, who himself has stated that he often finds himself in the right place at the right time, without knowing specifically what he's there for. I would argue that 'luck', as a concept, is similar - finding yourself in the right place at the right time, and taking the opportunity presented to you there. 

That is true and is what f-Chromium would do, but I still would not call that 'luck'.

[Werewolff Studios]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That is true and is what f-Chromium would do, but I still would not call that 'luck'.

By definition, Luck is the 'success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions'. If one didn't know the Arcanist-definition of Fortune, a Spinner would certainly be known as a lucky, or unlucky, individual.

I feel that the word luck is merely a simpler way of describing what's going on with Fortune, especially for more general conversations. Rather than saying a Spinner 'knows the probability of an effect occurring in the future and therefore establishing it's cause prior to the effect' it's easier to say 'they're lucky.' At least, that's my way of thinking about it. 

 

[Tglassy]

Luck is a coloquialism.  It's what people say when something good or bad happens that has little to do with what you try.  Drawing the right card, rolling the right dice, randomly hitting the breaks on your car a split second before the deer runs out in the road letting you miss it instead of hit it if you hadn't just happened to hit the breaks right then.  

We don't know how tapping Fortune would actually function, but it, in essence, gives you 'luck'.  Things caused by random chance that you prefer to happen are more likely to happen.  Rolling the dice is more likely to come up a 7.  Shuffling the deck, it is more likely the cards will turn up in your favor.  

I understand "the law of causality means luck cannot exist" but since Luck is just a blanket term to mean "Good things happening by random chance", then yeah, both can happen.  Tapping Fortune, I'd assume, would simply, magically, make it so that all the teeny tiny variables that affect EVERYTHING would magically (cause it's magic) line up better in your favor.