Jofwu

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Jofwu last won the day on March 5 2018

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2,297 Steel Inquisitor

About Jofwu

  • Birthday 09/22/1987

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    The Cosmere, Wheel of Time, The Expanse, Kerbal Space Program, Mass Effect, Civilization, Zelda, Elder Scrolls, space, physics, math, soccer

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  1. The fight to save Notum was right after, so I'm not sure if they had time or not But they certainly had a lot of time between then and the end of the book. I was talking about this question with my wife and she proposed this as a way for her to have a child between books even if Adolin dies. It's a bit cliche, but it could certainly work.
  2. Quote marks don't go at the end of a paragraph if the same speaker continues in the next. Just a heads up so you don't feel the need to report more, as there should be quite a lot of these in the book(s).
  3. Kaymyth knows better, but I think they were breaking 1000 the last couple years. Various Covid-related issues obviously keeping attendance a lot lower this year. Going to make it? I'm sure we'll definitely have an informal get-together of some kind. Which day? (Guessing you were trying to avoid Saturday?) Or did you just decide on the full weekend?
  4. I pay VERY close attention to the non-RoW forums lately, I promise. I had a 2020 ticket, so I was all set. I'll be there too.
  5. I was kind of hoping she might be pregnant in RoW to be honest. Feels like fantasy never really covers new mothers. Alas... She's pretty clearly not, and there's definitely not going to be time for "new mom Shallan" in book 5, given the timeline. So now I'm expecting that she will have a kid during the time jump after book 5. This assumes both she and Adolin survive book 5 though... I feel like both of them are fair game for a death, so this is possibly a bad assumption. If Shallan dies, obviously that's the end of the road for this discussion. If Adolin dies, I'm skeptical Brandon would marry her off and give her a kid with someone else prior to book 6. That would be quite jarring... Kaladin's the only one she's been suitably set up for, for that to happen, and I just don't think Brandon intends to circle them back around to each other. I'm sure others disagree. Just my opinion.
  6. ***** Warning: Rhythm of War spoilers below ***** While working on some updates to our "Interactive Map and Timeline of Roshar" I came across something that intrigued me regarding Rosharan units for distance. Some background info first @Paleo was working on a tool to measure distance on the map by clicking two points. In the process, we realized that the grid overlay we were using was not correct. @Otto Didact was the first to realize that our world map of Roshar is a "azimuthal equidistant projection", which is an interesting globe projection where all points are at a consistently proportional distance from a chosen center point. It is perhaps best well known for it's use in the United Nations emblem, where the North Pole is used as the center point. You don't have to use one of the poles as your center point, though that's the most common use. For example, the one on the right, centered on Taipei. It's a great projection to use for Roshar because the the central area of the map looks accurate, as if seen from space. The distortion is worse along the edges. Roshar conveniently has all of it's land in one corner of the globe, so the distorted parts (of the full map) are off in the middle of the sea on the other side of the planet. The map we get in the books of course is just a cropped portion of the full projection. Anyways... We were looking into this distance measurement tool and realized the calculated coordinates for points toward the edges of the map didn't match up with the grid we were using. Oops! Conveniently, Oathbringer came with a beautiful map of Roshar that included the planet's grid. We just need to adjust things to match this map. And come to find out not only was our grid wrong, but the calculations weren't quite matching the Oathbringer grid either. We never did figure out what was wrong with the grid, so we'll have to make a new one from scratch. As for the calculations, it turns out we needed to pick a better center point. It's hard to say precisely what the center point of the projection should be. The IDEA behind the projection, is that a great circle passing through the center coordinate will appear on the projection as a straight line. We know the center point must be on the "prime meridian" of the map, because it's the meridian that appears as a straight line, but we don't know the right latitude. I used my globe of Roshar to draw great circles through different latitudes on the "prime meridian", and then sketched horizontal lines across the map looking for a match. Through this I found that the center point must be somewhere around 16 or 17 Rosharan degrees south of the equator. Paleo realized that 16 Rosharan degrees is the center point of the image file, so we went with that. Distance Discrepancy I've used my globe, linked above, to measure distances in the past... But I was never entirely sure of how accurate my projection for the globe was. (plus we realized the globe website wasn't quite calculating distance right through this) After working through everything above, I was quite confident with what we had. Our new grid, calculated mathematically was a pretty solid match to the one used on the Oathbringer map. We know the circumference of the planet is about 22,110 miles. So we should have distance measurements that are as accurate as possible. With that done, I wanted to check something that I've always wondered about.... The Map of Alethkar in The Way of Kings has a scale on it. So I was curious if our measurements would match this scale. I wasn't expecting it to match actually, because I've been under the impression that the scale was wrong. There is a new version of this same map in Oathbringer, and it has the scale removed. That has given me the impression the last few years that they were retconning some map details. Indeed, the TWoK version also includes a "North" compass heading that conflicts with the Oathbringer world map, and which the OB Alethkar map also removed. Curiously, however, the 10th Anniversary TWoK leatherbounds DID remove the compass but DID NOT remove the scale. So I was curious about what's going on there... Is it right or wrong? An oversight? Something else? One problem right off the bat is that it's not clear how the scale is meant to be used. Alethkar covers a sizeable chunk of the planet's surface, so a single linear scale can't really be highly accurate for the entire map. So we have to realize there's some margin of error built in. But I did find that the map of Alethkar overlays quite nicely onto the Oathbringer map of Roshar. From there, it was very easy to count pixels on the world map and compare them to known distances. For the azimuthal equidistant projection that we have, any line radiating from the center point as a constant scale. So given the circumference of the planet, we know the distance from the center point at 16 Rdeg South to the intersection of the prime meridian and the equator. If we count the number of pixels on the image, we have our distance/pixel relationship. Now I can draw a straight line (or line segment) at any angle through the center point, count the number of pixels to figure what the distance is. Meanwhile I can overlay the Alethkar map and count the number of pixels for the scale (in the same map). Here's what I got: So the Alethkar map's scale was for a total distance of 300 units. Presumably miles. Presumably Rosharan miles I should say, because it's an in-world document, which I'll refer to as "Rmiles" from here on out for clarity. Note also my use off Rdeg for Rosharan degrees--they use 200 Rdeg in a circle.I should also note that the "22,110 mile circumference" that we have is NOT entirely clear whether that's Rosharan miles or "real" miles. I tend to get the feeling that they use real miles, internally, and so it's probably that. But we don't know. For all we know, the two are equivalent. Anyways, what I've done in the image above is mark 300 mile long line segments. We know these are accurate because that's simply how the projection works. And they DO NOT match the scale on the Alethkar map by a significant margin. In fact, I found the scale to be 95% longer. Almost double in length. So what do we make of this? The very first thing I should say is that this could simply be an error. There are WoBs which clearly indicate that Brandon and his team had NOT entirely nailed down the details of the world map at the time The Way of Kings was written. Isaac notes in that particular one that the continent is 4000 miles across. It's currently at ~6400 miles across if measured through the center point. Depends where you measure from exactly, but it's definitely more than 4000 miles now. The scale WAS included in the leatherbound... but this could simply be an oversight. An error seems highly plausible to me. Rosharan Units of Distance But what if it's not an error? Then what do we make of this? You COULD take it as the discrepancy between "real" miles and Rosharan miles. What if the Alethkar map approximates 300 Rmiles while the segments I've drawn are just 300 real miles? Remember that the scale is... a bit ambiguous... The trick of measuring pixels like I did only works along lines radiating from the map's center point. The scale's pixel measurement that I did is not quite a radial line segment, and any measurements on the Alethkar map that are perpendicular to these radial lines will vary in consistency from left to right. That is to say, the scale of vertical measurements distorts as you move across the page from left to right. Where does the 300 mile scale apply? Unclear. But the margin of error shouldn't be SO far off. I'd be surprised if it's more than +/- 5%. So let's run with this notion that Rosharan miles are about 1.95 times the length of a real mile... 1 Rmile = 1.95 miles = 1.95 x 5280 feet = 10,296 feet. I can't help but notice how close this is to a metric-like multiple of 10 as we would expect from Rosharans. Indeed, we know that they use ten inches per foot. Or rather, I should say they use 10 Rinches per Rfoot. And for the number of feet per mile we're really more interested in Rfeet per Rmile. BUT we know that Rosharan feet are just a BIT longer than real feet, and Brandon's use of the word isn't meant to imply something highly unintuitive. This is pretty straight forward though. If we imagine 10,000 Rfeet per Rmile we get: 1 Rmile = 1.95 miles = 1.95 x 5280 feet = 10,296 feet = 10,000 Rfeet 1 Rfoot = 1.03 feet = 12.36 inches = 10 Rinches 1 Rinch = 1.24 inches In Khriss's essay on Roshar she DOES say that their units of measurement are larger than the cosmere standard equivalent units. And with these assumptions it's precisely what we get. Miles that are about twice as long as "normal". Feet that are perhaps something like 5% longer than "normal". (which matches this WoB--5% on top of 6'-4" adds 4 inches) Inches that are ~25% longer than "normal". (emphasizing once again that this is all very approximate, based on me measuring pixels on a world map... There's room for some variance. Textual Issues Unfortunately, there are a few references in the text that conflict a bit with this interpretation. BUT there is one that, in my opinion, affirms it. And it's possible that these references could be adjusted in future leatherbound versions as none of them are in TWoK. The Purelake is a little over 1000 miles across and 400 miles wide. For 2X long Rmiles, that would be 500 and 200, so this fits nicely. For 2X Rmiles, it looks like the eastern coast is only 150 Rmiles away. Could say Shallan's sense of geography is off... but with her photographic memory I think this is pretty unlikely. The distance from Narak to "not quite Hearthstone" looks to be about 1700 miles. That would only be about 850 Rmiles. Though maybe Kaladin's judge of distance just isn't quite right. Or maybe with error it's just barely over 1000 Rmiles. This one actually AFFIRMS the idea of 2X Rmiles in my opinion. I'm measuring the diameter of the Shattered Plains as about 170... The exact edges aren't clear, so it depends where you measure from. But it's definitely over 150 miles. That means the radius is 75 miles minimum. In the Words of Radiance finale, we see Lopen's arm heal back in the warcamps while Kaladin is presumably somewhere around Narak. Lopen was easily more than 50 miles away, and certainly more than the 30-mile limit where their powers supposedly diminish. But for 2X Rmiles, the Shattered Plains has a radius of perhaps about 40 Rmiles, give or take. That fits MUCH better with Lopen's healing. I'd go so far as to say that if this "theory" about Rosharan miles is wrong, this reference is an error. This is Dalinar going to visit Azir. Azir is less than 800 miles from Urithiru, so he's just plain wrong about that distance regardless. Though I suppose overestimating 800 miles would be more reasonable than for him to say "a thousand" when it's only ~400. This is correct either way. This is correct either way. (spoken from Shadesmar in the vicinity of Kholinar) These distances seem to refer to real miles. The distance from Thaylen City to the coast of the bead ocean where they landed is about 200-300 miles. So this doesn't jive with 2X Rmiles. Reshi Isles is thousands of miles either way... Well, for 2X Rmiles it's not quite 2000 miles I think, but seems reasonable enough for her to say. Works either way. Works either way. This is Dalinar flying from their base in Emul to Ishar. It's not entirely clear where teir base was (or precisely where Ishar was). I think this works either way though, eyeballing the area. Final Thoughts I think the scale on the Alethkar map is probably just an oversight, and that it's wrong... BUT I really like this idea for the units. I think it's safe to assume that a Rosharan foot must be similar in length to a foot. If Rosharan miles are supposed to be closer in length to miles, there's not a great way for Rmiles to be a 10X power of Rfeet. Again, assuming feet are fairly similar, using 1000 Rfeet per Rmile gives an unreasonably short Rmile. I think the best alternative idea is that they use 5000 Rfeet per Rmile. That means you just need Rfeet at 6% longer than a real foot to give Rmiles the length of miles. Increasing the foot size a bit more gives Rmiles a bit longer as well. Using a multiple of 5 like this has precedence in their units. We know that there are 50 Rosharan minutes in a Rosharan hour, rather than 100. So this seems reasonable... But using 10,000 Rfeet per Rmile is a really nice alternative that seems to fit with the scale on the Alethkar map! That said, there ARE definitely some quotes (mostly in Oathbringer) that would need some revisions if this is the intent. (and one that needs to be revised if it's not)
  7. It's been a while so I don't recall precisely... I think I've done word counts different with different books. I think I opened the ebook in Calibre and downloaded a word count plugin? Graphs and charts all in Excel, yep. All pivot charts I think.
  8. You missed the chasm quote where it describes Patternblade as glowing garnet, I think? We see two mentions of a "silver" Blade and one mention of a "glowing garnet" blade. Like I said... these COULD be the same Blade. Maybe the glow was missing (for some logical reason) or just not mentioned previously. I just tend to think it's Brandon's way of giving a subtle hint that it's not the same Blade. The sort of hint that you wouldn't notice in a first read if you don't start from the (at the time) outlandish premise that Shallan actually has TWO Shardblades. Agreed. It would be more compelling if there was evidence that he was still trying to reach the guards at the time the Blade was drawn. But there's descriptions to suggest her guards at come to the tent (thus Pattern had already reached them) early in the excerpt. I just thought it was interesting that he seemingly wasn't there. There's no reason should couldn't have summoned him back. Pattern being gone just feels to me like a light nod to the idea that it wasn't him.
  9. Sorry I must have missed this. I manually pulled word counts from the ebook and entered the data in Excel. That's all it is. Might be some smarter way to automate getting the word counts, but it would be tricky (at the very least because of mid-chapter PoV changes) and require some manual work regardless (seeing who the PoV is and entering that). Takes a few hours of work, but I'd spend far more trying to do something "smart".
  10. The point was that it could be a double-fakeout. At first you think she needs ten heartbeats because that's how Shardblades work. Then you come to the end of WoR and realize living Blades are a thing, and they don't require ten heartbeats. So Shallan was just lying to herself. THEN you read RoW and realize she wasn't using a living Blade there, so she did need ten heartbeats after all. (maybe) That's not to say I've taken back my original thrust that Testament isn't subject to the ten heartbeat rule. Like you said, Adolin/Maya is evidence enough that Testament maybe doesn't require ten heartbeats. It's just an interesting, twisty idea that maybe she does after all. (or at least did at that point, perceptions aside) Oh, I think you're right. Thanks. That goes against my intuition, but I do seem to think evidence was in favor of the idea that they return to a relative location. But then I would fall back on the argument that, if Testament were summoned at some point after being found by the business partner, the partner would be aware of that fact. (having seen her disappear and come back at one point or another) And it feels a significant detail that would have come up. Certainly possible the inkspren just failed to mention it... but it's at least one more nail in the coffin of the idea that Shallan summoned Testament post-WoR in my opinion.
  11. I've been meaning to come here and make an addendum... When I first made this theory there were several pieces to it that I was unsure about. Pieces which had a safe, easy answer or, alternatively, a more extreme and probably unlikely answer. Most notably, I'm thinking of the assertions that Shallan used Testament throughout Words of Radiance, including in the chasm and Oathgate. (if that surprises you, don't bother questioning me here--you can read the arguments for these ideas earlier in the topic) Ultimately, I figured it would encourage more discussion and be more fun if I posted a more provocative version of the theory. But after letting things stew for a while, I definitely think I've landed with a more conservative interpretation of events. Shallan Shardblade References Shallan uses her Shardblade(s) only a handful of times, and doesn't think about them many times beyond that. Here are all of them that I can think of in the first two books, with a few others... If you think I'm missing one that's of any note, please let me know! Not much to say on this one. It's the first hint that she has a Shardblade though. There's reason I've highlighted "ten heartbeats" though... And here's the next hint. Also not much to tackle... Worth mentioning that I think this is Testament speaking, rather than Pattern. But I've covered this, including basis for that opinion, in my original post. I suppose it's a bit interesting that she claims to have "promised herself" not to use her Shardblade. We never saw this in her flashbacks. Could be a very minor moment without much more to say, but it's also very possible that this refers to when she broke her bond with Testament. In light of something we see a big later, again don't forget about this repeated insistence that it requires ten heartbeats to summon her blade. Another mention of the ten heartbeats... I'll get to my point on this soon. The most exciting thing here, however, is that it's our first description of the Blade she used to kill her mother. (or at least that's very much what it seems to be) "A silvery sword". Nothing here, but including the quote for completeness. Okay, this is a juicy one. Especially because someone asked Brandon about it in December, as to whether we see Pattern or Testament here. Brandon RAFO'd but also said, "I think this one is pretty clear." Let's be clear: Brandon often says things are clear when they very much are not, or vice versa! But I think he's rigth about this one. It's notable, I think, that Pattern doesn't seem to be present. Further up the page, we see that he was. (It seems, at least, that he imitated Jasnah's voice to confuse Tyn.) But at the beginning of the excerpt I've quoted, we see Shallan call Pattern and he doesn't respond. It's simple to assume that he simply didn't answer... But at the end we also have Red claiming that a voice told them to come help her. This all suggests to me that Pattern left to get help, and wasn't present when Shallan summoned her Blade. This doesn't mean she couldn't have summoned Pattern. But I DO think it's a clue that's at least a big suggestive. The description ("briliantly silver") is a BIG clue. We saw in WoR chapter 3 that she killed her mother with a "silvery sword". And we're dealing with two quotes from the same book, which makes me extra comfortable with the assumption that attention was paid to continuity on this description. I think Shallan used Testament to kill Tyn. So why have I been harping on the ten heartbeats thing? I've theorized previously that perhaps Testament isn't subject to that limit. And of course in our pre-RoW reads of these books, it's easy to ASSUME Shallan is correct at the end of Words of Radiance when she says she doesn't need ten heartbeats after all. And, well, she is partly correct. Partly. When it comes to Pattern. But what if Testament does indeed require ten heartbeats? What if these insistences on ten heartbeats are not entirely wrong? When she says "I don't need ten heartbeats" (and then buys herself more time by Lightweaving a distraction) she isn't wrong. To summon Testament she does need ten heartbeats. Also worth noting that Testament doesn't scream at her. (unless there's some next-level mental blocks going on, which isn't impossible) My theory on this was that Shallan being Testament's Radiant means she behaves a bit differently than other deadeyes. Part of me wondered if we see the Blade appear in less than ten heartbeats here... But it's too hard to say, especially with her heart beating pretty fast. Actually, I guess I lean towards the assumption that she DID wait ten heartbeats. It takes me ten seconds to read that line from Taln with barely any natural pauses. A frightened person's heart definitely beats 10 times in about that long. But that's not proof it's not Pattern, so this doesn't tell us much. And here's the next big one--the chasm. Now... it's possible (in my opinion) to rationalize that this is the same "silvery" Blade. Silvery with a soft glow of garnet seems... not impossible. But I don't think this is the intent at all. This is Pattern. It's notable that it glows, like all "living" Blades we've seen, from a glyph. Contrasted with Testament, who is a dull silver with no such glow. (edit: eh.... well, Testament was alive when she killed her mother, so maybe this isn't quite right. maybe the idea is simply that Testament happens to be more silvery and Pattern glows a more distinct garnet?) And there's also the length-change thing, again strongly indicating Pattern. There's a few other references in this chapter that I haven't quoted. One at the very end of 72, but I think this is everything notable. So here's where she uses her Blade to open the Oathgate. Again, I've argued this could be Testament... But I think that's unlikely. It's probably Pattern, just as it appears. (despite the insistence that it's the Blade she used to kill her mother) Some have proposed this as another truth for Shallan. I was originally very skeptical of this, but... Maybe? I skipped a reference of her holding the Blade with Mraize, but zero details there. And here's Shallan reliving the death of her mother. This is Testament as a Blade of course, despite Pattern's lie. Another description of her Shardblade. "A long, thin weapon nearly as tall as she was." Unfortunately we don't see a description of the length elsewhere. Almost certainly Pattern here. Aside from the general sense that she seems to have moved on from using Testament at this point, we know that Testament's inkspren business partner found her far in the east somewhere in the timeframe of Oathbringer. If Shallan had used Testament in Urithiru (or Kholinar, later) then she wouldn't have been in the east still. (And if Shallan had used her since then, she would have been pulled away from the partner after being found--which obviously never happened) It's safe to assume there are no more Testament uses after WoR. There are several other Oathbringer references... some in Urithiru... One when she draws it to activate the Kholinar Oathgate. These can ass be dismissed. And here's Shallan stepping out of Shadesmar into Thaylen City. Long and thin matches the Patternblade description in OB 115, so safe to assume this is Pattern once again I think. Slight curve is a new detail we've never seen mentioned before. So Pattern also has a faint latticework pattern along the Blade. And there's not many references in Rhythm of War because Shallan spends most of it in Shadesmar. She draws it when dealing with Ialai, but there's no descriptions there. Testament is with her business partner at that point of course, so it was Pattern there regardless. And that's it. Shallan's Truths And then we come to the truths... One of the biggest things I was trying to explain by reaching hard with the original concept here was the timing of when Shallan gets Patternblade. The biggest issue that I'm left with, by walking back from the idea that Shallan used Testament to operate the Oathgate an didn't reach "level 3" with Pattern until "I killed my mother" in Urithiru... Is explaining how she had Pattern at an earlier time. Let me break it down... I'm pretty dead set on the idea that "I'm terrified" was NOT a truth spoken to Pattern. See original post for this argument. It seems to be a different voice that spoke to her there (surely Testament). Rather, the first truth spoken to Pattern seems to have been "I killed my father" at the end of TWoK. But we don't have any other clear truths from Shallan between that point and the chasm scene, where (as we covered above) she clearly seems to have utilized Pattern. Someone has pointed out "deeper truth" reference when she operates the Oathgate, where she sort of speaks a truth in insisting that her Shardblade is different. You COULD take that as her 2nd truth, giving her a Shardblade at the standard level JUST before she needs to use it. But it doesn't help with the chasm scene, and that one is pretty darn compelling to me. So what are our options? I'm wrong about "I'm terrified"... But I'm firmly against that idea. Shallan spoke some earlier truth to Pattern and "I killed my father" is her second. On one hand... this could explain why we never see a clear First Ideal exchange with Pattern. (though I've never seen a strong need for that) The idea here being that she regressed like Kaladin did with Syl in WoR. She didn't kill Pattern like Testament... just caused their bond to fade... ... until she spoke "I killed my father" and pulled him back out of limbo. But I really hate this for the idea that she has blanked out on TWO spren bonds prior to TWoK. That's just silly... and difficult to believe. Maybe Lightweavers get Blades at "level 2". Don't love this without more suggestive proof. Especially since RoW showed us Lightweavers who have a spren but no Blade. Maybe Lightweaver truths make them advance at different rates and she got to "level 3" sooner than we realize? When speaking "I killed my father" there's an interesting line about "stronger truths make a more powerful bond" (paraphrasing) Something about her bond to Testament is allowing Patternblade at an earlier point? This could go lots of different directions... Maybe it's a simple consequence of already bonding a spren up to some point. If second honorspren wants to bond a Windrunner (for who knows what reason) I'm inclined to think they could advance their bond swiftly and maybe even without Ideal reruns? Maybe it's a combination with #4 and truths count for more in such cases? Maybe Shallan being more Invested than usual makes it possible to have a Shardblade at a lower level? Maybe something else? I think I'm inclined to assume #5 at the moment... Maybe with a bit of #4 going on as well...?
  12. I don't see this matters at all. He knew what he needed to say for the 4th before he said it, if I'm not mistaken. Regardless, there was NOTHING mysterious about the 1st Idea. The third was really the only one where the very idea of the Ideal was a shocking revelation to Kaladin. The epicness of Kaladin's Ideals isn't usually a matter of us being excited for him to discover something new. It's about the emotion of him committing to something that's difficult for him.... And even more important than that is just the epic circumstances that he speaks them in. There's nothing particularly memorable about the words of "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves". That's what he was doing the entire book. Doesn't mean Kaladin jumping across a chasm solo to fight Parshendi wasn't memorable.
  13. I can barely think of any instances where Kaladin takes care of himself without essentially being ordered to do so. And even most of those is with a mindset of "if I push myself too hard I won't be there for my men when they need me", which isn't the most healthy state of mind. I'm not saying that he doesn't recognize this is an issue. But I don't think it would be EASY for him to swear that he will do a better job paying attention to his own health and actively take steps to protect himself when he needs it. Would it be as hard for him to swear as the 4th ideal was? No. But I'm not expecting the 5th to be as hard as the 4th for Kaladin. The journey to the 4th oath had two whole books of setup, with a major moment devoted to it. His 5th oath is going to be one exciting moment buried among many.
  14. The fundamental value of the Windrunners is protecting people, not self sacrifice. You can't be good at protecting people (or even just helping people in general) if you don't know how to take care of yourself. Which is precisely Kaladin's biggest issue. The point of "I will protect myself" (as I mean it) isn't to say that they will always lookout for themselves above all else, if that's not clear. It could very well have more words tacked on, just like "I will protect those I hate" includes a "so long as it is right" for Kaladin. The Windrunner oaths don't build on on another, such that the later ones are somehow more important or whatever. The idea is simply that he needs to recognize when it's time to pause and take care of himself. You can't keep going and going and going and going nonstop. Kaladin is a mess. He's drowning in PTSD and survivor's guilt because he keeps pushing and pushing to do everything he can to protect every last person he can. He's a workaholic. And it's killing him. It's the reason he's in such a bad place now. It's the reason he lost Tarah. (putting less value on his relationship with her than on his drive to be a good soldier, so he can protect his men) I'm not saying he can't NEVER sacrifice himself for people. But the man needs to learn that it's okay to take care of himself once in a while.
  15. I could see a few other directions, but the intuitive fifth oath to me is "I will protect myself". I think the oath has to be something that's HARD for a 4th level Windrunner to say. A lot of the ideas being thrown out are cool, but I don't see Kaladin having a hard time saying them. On the other hand, this really is the last big lesson that Kaladin needs to learn. He gives and gives and gives. The man needs to learn that he has limits. He needs to accept that, especially after the 4th oath, sometimes I needs to not just accept that he can't save everyone. Sometimes he has to choose saving himself over trying to save everyone. My guess is that we'll see a big confrontation with Kaladin and Moash that ends with Kaladin having a choice. Save Moash at great personal risk, or let the guy go. And he'll opt for the latter. Something to that effect anyways. I can see it play out a few different ways.