Cosmere 101

[SamsonSeaBorn]

Thought,will and action. The mind, the spirit and the body. Are the three realms possibly splinters of integrity?

[Landis963]

Thought,will and action. The mind, the spirit and the body. Are the three realms possibly splinters of integrity?

 

The Realms are far larger than any one Splinter could ever be, especially a Splinter of a Shard.  

[SamsonSeaBorn]

The Realms are far larger than any one Splinter could ever be, especially a Splinter of a Shard.

yeah probably but the corollary is driving me nuts

[HonorIsDead]

I'm curious, where do you guys think Trell fits into all of this, which shard is he, he has been mentioned on both Roshar and Scadrial but who is he really?

Also what about his opposite, Nalt, where are they, who are they, and what are they trying to accomplish at the moment, Nalt seems not to have come up aside from in the stories by the people of the salt lake which is concerning as he has essntialy dissapeared, but Trell might be even more concerning at the moment as he seems to be trying to fight saized, and doing fairly well, even though saized should have twice the power he does.

[HonorIsDead]

On ‎2011‎-‎04‎-‎14 at 6:57 PM, ZeldaDad said:

I just thought this was really interesting and goes along with the whole guide thing. I'm just really curious who "the man who didn't know who he was" is. Interesting description. Also, "a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died".... Shadesmar??? I don't know. Just thought the whole thing was interesting because I didn't even know the Cosmere existed when I read Warbreaker.

i forget what the story was about so maybe this makes no sense but my imidiate thought Scadrial, there are two worlds there, that of the main characters such as wax and wayne, and then that of the other people, the people with the masks and the flying machines, also 2 gods have died there, both ruin and preservation, though i suppose you could argue they live on in Saized, also the man who didn't know who he was could easily refer to Kelsier after he returned for the dead in that case as i bet when we get the rest of his story, if we get it, he will be very confused as to what/who he is after seeing all he did in the cognitive realm

[Landis963]

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 3:43 PM, The_God_King said:

I'm curious, where do you guys think Trell fits into all of this, which shard is he, he has been mentioned on both Roshar and Scadrial but who is he really?

Also what about his opposite, Nalt, where are they, who are they, and what are they trying to accomplish at the moment, Nalt seems not to have come up aside from in the stories by the people of the salt lake which is concerning as he has essntialy dissapeared, but Trell might be even more concerning at the moment as he seems to be trying to fight saized, and doing fairly well, even though saized should have twice the power he does.

"Trell" and "Nalt," pre-Catacendre at least, are pretty closely parallel to Ruin and Preservation.  The "Trell" whose agents have been wreaking havoc during Era 2 does not have a "Nalt", and much evidence points toward it being Odium from Stormlight.  (Said evidence is far from conclusive, and I suspect it will continue to be argued as such until and unless we hear him talk)

[HonorIsDead]

sorry but that was slightly confusing to me, are you saying that the Trell in Mistborn is not the same Trell as spoken of by the people at salt lake, that it is just a name he took to confuse Saized/Harmony, or that Trell and Nalt were both hosts, much like Ati and Leras, or that Trell is just another name for Odium and that he some how beat his opposite, who was Nalt, or something else completely?

 

14 hours ago, Landis963 said:

"Trell" and "Nalt," pre-Catacendre at least, are pretty closely parallel to Ruin and Preservation.  The "Trell" whose agents have been wreaking havoc during Era 2 does not have a "Nalt", and much evidence points toward it being Odium from Stormlight.  (Said evidence is far from conclusive, and I suspect it will continue to be argued as such until and unless we hear him talk)

 

[RYANHOME]

14 hours ago, Landis963 said:

"Trell" and "Nalt," pre-Catacendre at least, are pretty closely parallel to Ruin and Preservation.  The "Trell" whose agents have been wreaking havoc during Era 2 does not have a "Nalt", and much evidence points toward it being Odium from Stormlight.  (Said evidence is far from conclusive, and I suspect it will continue to be argued as such until and unless we hear him talk)

Trell was worshipped before TLR's Ascension. 

[Landis963]

1 hour ago, The_God_King said:

sorry but that was slightly confusing to me, are you saying that the Trell in Mistborn is not the same Trell as spoken of by the people at salt lake, that it is just a name he took to confuse Saized/Harmony, or that Trell and Nalt were both hosts, much like Ati and Leras, or that Trell is just another name for Odium and that he some how beat his opposite, who was Nalt, or something else completely?

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, RYANHOME said:

Trell was worshipped before TLR's Ascension. 

Yes.  "Trelagism" was mentioned by Sazed as one of the religions he had recorded in his copperminds, complete with the pair of gods, one good, the other evil.  Trell watched over his adherents, the Nelazan, by night, with his "thousand eyes" (i.e. the stars) and Nalt jealously glared at Trell's worshippers by day with his one eye (i.e. the Sun).  (Sazed would later use the documents of Trelagism, most notably the highly detailed star charts they produced in Trell's honor, to triangulate where Scadrial's orbit used to be).  The Era 2 worship of Trell, however, does not mention a Nalt, ever.  Furthermore, kandra of any description do not predate the Ascension, which makes it implausible at best that Trell "had Faceless Immortals of [his] own." (Suit's inner monologue, penultimate chapter, BoM) No, the evidence points toward some other Shard that is using the Trell name as a handle. 

[HonorIsDead]

13 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

 

Yes.  "Trelagism" was mentioned by Sazed as one of the religions he had recorded in his copperminds, complete with the pair of gods, one good, the other evil.  Trell watched over his adherents, the Nelazan, by night, with his "thousand eyes" (i.e. the stars) and Nalt jealously glared at Trell's worshippers by day with his one eye (i.e. the Sun).  (Sazed would later use the documents of Trelagism, most notably the highly detailed star charts they produced in Trell's honor, to triangulate where Scadrial's orbit used to be).  The Era 2 worship of Trell, however, does not mention a Nalt, ever.  Furthermore, kandra of any description do not predate the Ascension, which makes it implausible at best that Trell "had Faceless Immortals of [his] own." (Suit's inner monologue, penultimate chapter, BoM) No, the evidence points toward some other Shard that is using the Trell name as a handle. 

ok, thanks, so Trell might be like Adonalsium, he isn't, so far as we know, a shard, but he is still a very powerful force, one we can assume is pre-shattering, Also we know he has been to 2 of the worlds (Scadrial and Roshar, which we know because of myths and stories) Does that mean that there was possibly more than one great power of creation? If so might he have helped Odium to shatter Adonalsium in the hopes of gaining his power? Trell was said to be very jealous so it doesn't seem that out there that if he was a force from the pre-shattering era, he might have helped shatter Adonalsium so that he could try and collect the shards himself.

[RYANHOME]

I'm still holding firm to the theory that Trell is the name of a Shard we haven't meet yet. There are still seven unaccounted for.

3 hours ago, Landis963 said:

 

Yes.  "Trelagism" was mentioned by Sazed as one of the religions he had recorded in his copperminds, complete with the pair of gods, one good, the other evil.  Trell watched over his adherents, the Nelazan, by night, with his "thousand eyes" (i.e. the stars) and Nalt jealously glared at Trell's worshippers by day with his one eye (i.e. the Sun).  (Sazed would later use the documents of Trelagism, most notably the highly detailed star charts they produced in Trell's honor, to triangulate where Scadrial's orbit used to be).  The Era 2 worship of Trell, however, does not mention a Nalt, ever.  Furthermore, kandra of any description do not predate the Ascension, which makes it implausible at best that Trell "had Faceless Immortals of [his] own." (Suit's inner monologue, penultimate chapter, BoM) No, the evidence points toward some other Shard that is using the Trell name as a handle. 

 

[Oversleep]

3 hours ago, RYANHOME said:

I'm still holding firm to the theory that Trell is the name of a Shard we haven't meet yet. There are still seven unaccounted for.

But there is a WoB saying that the metal Bleeder used comes from a Shard we met / we know of (I don't remember it well, so I'm not sure which one).

[HonorIsDead]

4 hours ago, RYANHOME said:

I'm still holding firm to the theory that Trell is the name of a Shard we haven't meet yet. There are still seven unaccounted for.

 

I think that would make the most sense, he and his brother could be shards such as jealousy and gratefulness or something, but I don't really know, I doubt any of us really do, we really don't have all that much to go on about Trell, he's just kinda mentioned here and there, I was just curious as to people theories about how he fits in and why his name (and Nalt's) wasn't on the list on the first page.

[Oversleep]

Found it:

Quote

Eric
For the metal in Bleeder, is it from a Shard we know?
Brandon Sanderson
Yes.

source

Since trellium is, indeed, of Trell... It implies Trell is a Shard we know. (And we know 9 at that point, three of which Shattered)

Edited August 14, 2016 by Oversleep

[RYANHOME]

38 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Since trellium is, indeed, of Trell... It implies Trell is a Shard we know. (And we know 9 at that point, three of which Shattered)

Ten if we count the one that wants to hide. I'm thinking Trell is the Shard that is not invested in any planet. As his followers believe he's the darkness between stars and they are his thousand eyes.        [SO MUCH WE MUST LEARN]

[Blainejstephenson]

On 4/8/2011 at 11:31 AM, Link Von Kelsier Harvey said:

I've often wondered about this myself. I see two possibilities.

1) Mistborn becomes the series that ties the other series together. The third trilogy will (according to interviews) feature an extremely scientifically advanced Scadrial, with space ships and who knows what else. This seems like good way to tie everything together. Downside would be that it doesn't really change the "Who the hell are these guys" reaction you predicted.

2) Brandon will make a new series that features Adonalsium/Hoid/17th Shard as its primary conflicts/characters/organizations. We already know he has plans for books featuring Hoid, presumably from before the shattering, so this seems likely. This also ensures that no reader needs to know about Adonalsium in order to enjoy his other books. But once they read this Adonalsium series reading his other books suddenly becomes more awesome.

That's what I think anyway.

So, just a theory, one I'm sure that has been presented before, but what if the 'Ones Above' from Sixth of the Dusk are the scientifically advanced people from Scadrial? 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Blainejstephenson

[Eki]

9 hours ago, Blainejstephenson said:

So, just a theory, one I'm sure that has been presented before, but what if the 'Ones Above' from Sixth of the Dusk are the scientifically advanced people from Scadrial? 

This is the most common theory, yes. Although I think some have theorized that they could be a mix of different civilizations, rather than only from Scadrial.

[Pattern]

My best guess is that Trell and Nalt are two aspects from one shard, not local to Scadrial. Worshipped is the Night with a thousand stars rivalled by Day with a glaring sun. Not being sure which spoilers are allowed, I hint to the system descriptions in AU by Khriss and a shard that acts hypocritcally.

[Silarn]

On 2/17/2017 at 2:26 AM, Pattern said:

My best guess is that Trell and Nalt are two aspects from one shard, not local to Scadrial. Worshipped is the Night with a thousand stars rivalled by Day with a glaring sun. Not being sure which spoilers are allowed, I hint to the system descriptions in AU by Khriss and a shard that acts hypocritcally.

I hadn't noticed this until now. So I'd guess this is a pretty good sign that this Shard is involved. Still, Sazed and this Shard are both invested in planets, which would make it hard for a direct assault, and you'd assume Harmony would have the upper-hand. I still think it's possible there's at least a temporary alliance of Shards working against Harmony.

The Shard in question is now known to have worked with Odium, but I wouldn't count out working with other Shards, if the alliance was beneficial.

[NotSteve]

Shouldn't Sazed be the most powerful shard because he holds two shards? Or is it like allomancy where the OG's are way more powerful?

[NotSteve]

Also I feel it is far more likely that Hoid is from Scadrial because the Voice says that it has remarkable technological progress. And since even if you would say other planets would achieve FTL before Scadrial, it would actually make more sense then because he is from the future and would have a general knowledge of the past and would be able to know where to go.

[+ElephantEarwax]

1 hour ago, NotSteve said:

Also I feel it is far more likely that Hoid is from Scadrial because the Voice says that it has remarkable technological progress. And since even if you would say other planets would achieve FTL before Scadrial, it would actually make more sense then because he is from the future and would have a general knowledge of the past and would be able to know where to go.

Hoid was alive before the shattering of Adonalsium. He is from Yolen.

[Landis963]

1 hour ago, NotSteve said:

Shouldn't Sazed be the most powerful shard because he holds two shards? Or is it like allomancy where the OG's are way more powerful?

Sazed is the most powerful Shard.  However, he is also the most inexperienced.  Which is something that Trell is exploiting the rust out of.  

1 hour ago, NotSteve said:

Also I feel it is far more likely that Hoid is from Scadrial because the Voice says that it has remarkable technological progress. And since even if you would say other planets would achieve FTL before Scadrial, it would actually make more sense then because he is from the future and would have a general knowledge of the past and would be able to know where to go.

Hoid's not from Scadrial, nor does he have the ability to travel back in time (so far as we know).  He's from Yolen, and is using Fortune (used in Chromium Feruchemy, but which we haven't seen in-depth yet) to determine where to go and what to do.  Which "Voice" are you speaking of?  

Edited July 19, 2017 by Landis963

[Calderis]

13 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Hoid's not from Scadrial, nor does he have the ability to travel back in time (so far as we know).  He's from Yolen, and is using Fortune (used in Chromium Feruchemy, but which we haven't seen in-depth yet) to determine where to go and what to do.  Which "Voice" are you speaking of?  

@NotSteve

Hoid is not from the future. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=622#106

Quote

ERIC LAKE ()

Can Hoid jump through time? If so, can Shards jump through time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid, so far, has only moved forward in time. He has not 'lived' all of those years, but has used some time dilation techniques. That said, he is far older (both in relative and real time) than a normal person can live.

 

[Oversleep]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

@NotSteve

Hoid is not from the future. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=622#106

 

Also, we know he can't go back in time:

Quote

Question

Can Worldhoppers travel forwards and backwards in time or are they stuck going forward?

Brandon Sanderson

They are stuck going forward. Good question.

Question

So Hoid has to move in a straight line?

Brandon Sanderson

He has to move in a straight line. It can squish-- stretch or squish that line but he cant go back along the line.
source

The question whether time travel into past is possible is - I think - open at the moment and Brandon has been evasive with "nobody has managed it" or "we haven't seen it".