Argent

Chicago Steelheart Signing #2 (Wheeling)

28 posts in this topic

Wow great questions! And confirmation that fabrials can mimic all the radiant abilities!

 

 

 
Q: Is Cultivation's Shardholder still alive.
A: Good question, what do you think?
Q: I want to say, but that's based on my knowledge before I read Lift's interlude from Words of Radiance. Now I am leaning towards no. Based on that interlude, it looks like spren have essence from both Honor and Cultivation. It's almost like they exist in a spectrum, on one end of which is Honor, and on the other - Cultivation; so there are spren that are, for the lack of better example, 90% Honor and 10% Cultivation, and there are spren that are 15% Honor and 85% Cultivation.
A: That's a very astute observation!
Q: And since we know that Honor is Splintered, then it might be the case that Cultivation is also Splintered, and their Splinters form the spren.

 

Some one asked him this a couple months ago and he said Cultivation was still alive.

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Aw, bummer. We really need a better organizational tool for those kind of things - the interview database is nice if you have a specific topic in mind, but it doesn't work as well if you just want to read everything. Reading further down that thread, Cultivation might end up being Nightwatcher though - Lift's interlude adds some light support to this claim.

 

Still, maybe I am onto something with the spren living on a gradient...

Edited by Argent
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Yah, definitely.  Brandon talks a little about how spren are mixture of Honor and Cultivation here.

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This is great. It's amazing that Brandon can go from remembering Renarin's hair color, into the religion of Seons, and little things like Nightblood thinking he needs sleep even if he doesn't.

I tried adding Honorspren to the Splinter page on the Coppermind, but {{ref|17s|4254|post|66703|Are Honorspren Splinters, or do they hold Splinters?}} is officially the weirdest thing I've ever written that isn't a regular expression, so I'm not sure it isn't wrong somehow...

edit: It's interesting to finally see something that is a Splinter, rather than "The ________ inside of it a Splinter." I have a theory that spren are made of Stormlight, since they can be trapped in gems. We know you can use a Divine Breath in place of normal Breath. It makes me wonder if you can infuse a flamespren or Honorspren and use it instead of Stormlight. Ethical considerations aside!

Edited by Morsk
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Hmm, this might sound a bit crazy, but his "Mark XVII" comment could imply that there is someone named Mark in the Seventeenth Shard. A robot or golem, perhaps.

 

... and I just realized the connection between the Lifeless from Warbreaker and The Golem (The Jewish tale).

 

Good Questions and interesting answers.

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@The Questionhe didn't actually say Mark XVII, I am afraid. Flawless theory otherwise. "Number 17" might've been closer.

 

It's interesting to finally see something that is a Splinter, rather than "The ________ inside of it a Splinter." I have a theory that spren are made of Stormlight, since they can be trapped in gems. We know you can use a Divine Breath in place of normal Breath. It makes me wonder if you can infuse a flamespren or Honorspren and use it instead of Stormlight. Ethical considerations aside!

 

This made me think of something. Seons, Skaze, and Honorspren obviously have conscience (though it may be different from that humans have). It wouldn't be too big of a stretch of the imagination to consider the idea that the Divine Breaths of the Returned, on the account of them also being Splinters, also have it. Which would explain why they return with no memory of their past lives - the Returned themselves are really Divine Breaths / Endowment's Splinters inside a body, a husk. And the memories they do sometimes regain could be based on purely (plus some magic?) physiological processes - for example, since memories are encoded by way of neuro-networks in the brain, if a person Returns before his or her brain has had a chance to degenerate, those networks will still be present, just "locked away" by the Splinter's "personality."

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@The Questionhe didn't actually say Mark XVII, I am afraid. Flawless theory otherwise. "Number 17" might've been closer.

 

 

This made me think of something. Seons, Skaze, and Honorspren obviously have conscience (though it may be different from that humans have). It wouldn't be too big of a stretch of the imagination to consider the idea that the Divine Breaths of the Returned, on the account of them also being Splinters, also have it. Which would explain why they return with no memory of their past lives - the Returned themselves are really Divine Breaths / Endowment's Splinters inside a body, a husk. And the memories they do sometimes regain could be based on purely (plus some magic?) physiological processes - for example, since memories are encoded by way of neuro-networks in the brain, if a person Returns before his or her brain has had a chance to degenerate, those networks will still be present, just "locked away" by the Splinter's "personality."

 

While plausible, it still 'felt' in the book like they were REALLY the people. Llarimar seemed to feel that Lightsong still acted somewhat like his brother, he still cared about the same things as his brother. I realize this COULD all just neuro-chemical, but that doesn't feel like the case.

 

Also, there's the fact that at the end, Lightsong remembers crossing the veil and being asked if he wants to Return. Even if the "real" man was really just donating his body for a Divine Breath, why then would that Breath remember that moment?

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Lets speculate the dead guys Breath gets additional investiture and is then Retuned, but the rest of the persons soul stays somewhere else, maby similar to where Kelsier is. That could let the Divine Breath actually have experienced the events of his life, but still represent a new consciousness.

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I am sorry, @Darnam, I misrepresented my idea (happens when I try to watch a movie and post here at the same time...). I was trying to suggest that the two merge, but the Divine Breath, the Splinter, remains the dominant one, while the human soul (Spiritual aspect? form? entity?) turns dormant. In fact, it may be possible that the Divine Breath transforms all three aspects of the human it brings back to life - reshaping the physical slightly, strongly replacing the cognitive, and... modifying to an unknown degree the spiritual. 

 

@Isomere, doesn't Kelsier's soul reside in the Spiritual Realm, but can touch (very slightly) the Physical?

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Hey, just something I noticed. You use Sel instead of Scadrial in the Mistborn questions. ;) I figured it out, I just think it might be confusing for newer members.

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Goddamnit! It was an issue in my previous thread, it's an issue in this one as well. I am putting a sticky note on my monitor right now!

 

EDIT: I do not lie.

Edited by Argent
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Nice information!

 

I think, now we have the confirmation that Honorspren are Splinters of Honor.

 

@ the idea that every Shard from which Splinters exist is Splintered: I'm sorry, I can't follow this idea at the moment. It would imply that Endowment is Splintered (Shattered), too, what I don't believe (though we don't have any evidence about this question as far as I know).

I think that a Shard can create Splinters of itself (that's what I understand Endowment does). So why wouldn't Cultivation be able to do so as well? Maybe she kind of released a lot of Splinters in reaction to Honor's Splintering (to create a balance, out of frustration, or whatever reasons) but I'm not convinced Cultivation is Shattered, too.

 

edit: A question for clarifying because of me not being sure how to read it:

 

Q: Ashe says to Sarene "your god" (emphasis added). Do Seons (and Skaze) have a religion/god?
A: They have an inkling of the nature of their original Shards, which they would consider they gods.
Q: Kind of like a first, a prime, a parent?
A: Yes. They kind of know what happened that created them, and they also know this is not the god being worshipped (by Sarene), so...

 

About the emphasized part: My lacking English makes me feel there is something missing or wrong. Should it read: "which they would consider they are gods." or "which they would consider their gods". Or do I miss something entirely?

I apologize for my -- seemingly stupid -- questions.

Edited by Meg
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A typo. Fixed it. 

 

But yea, considering that Endowment does create Splinters of itself, Cultivation should be able to do it too. I completely walked over this fact...

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There is a chain of logic which makes honorspren voluntary splinters of Honor. 

 

  1. Nohadon mentions honorspren and surgebinders.
  2. Nohadon was before the Radiants and may have helped create them.
  3. The Radiants were present before the Heralds packed it in.
  4. WoB that Honor was still intact around when the Heralds packed it in. 
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WoB that Honor was still intact around when the Heralds packed it in. 

 

It's late and I can't find that "WoB". Would you be so kind and link the reference?

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here. Bear in mind there is a lot of wiggle room in interpreting this answer.

Was the Almighty still alive when the Heralds packed it in, and did the Radiants pack it in in direct response to what the Heralds did?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Radiants did NOT abandon their post as a response to the Heralds. The Radiants abandoned it for some other reason which will become evident eventually. The Almighty was still around when the Heralds did their thing.

Edited by Isomere
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@Isomere, doesn't Kelsier's soul reside in the Spiritual Realm, but can touch (very slightly) the Physical?

Kel's in the Cognitive Realm.

 

FIRSTRAINBOWROSE (17 OCTOBER 2008)

I just wanted to add in my two cents and say it was absolutely brilliant... and I think I'm starting to be able to breath again (crying that much hurts)...I also really loved that there's an "cameo" for Kelsier at the end... that made me really happy to see.

BRANDON SANDERSON (17 OCTOBER 2008)

Glad you liked the book, Rainbow!

You may want to note that the moment Preservation dropped out and let the last of his consciousness die, someone was waiting in the Cognitive Realm to seize the power and hold on for a short period until Vin could take it up more fully. You'll find him using it to whisper in moments of great stress in the book, to one person in specific in two places. (I'll bet someone on here has already found them.)

He never could just let things well enough alone....

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Hah, it was the Hero of Ages Q&A back on TWG I do believe.

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I keep confusing Cognitive and Spiritual (for the longest time I kept thinking Shadesmar was the Spiritual...), like I keep confusing Sel and Scadrial... 

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Q: Anything you can tell us about Steelheart's sequel, Firefight?

A: It starts off in Chicago, but then moves to New York. It will show off an... interesting version of Manhattan, similarly to how Steelheart's showed off an interesting version of Chicago. It will also introduce three new Epics.

 

This was my question, yay!

The new Epics are the ones from the "case files" in the various exclusive editions of Steelheart, namely Newton, Regalia, and (I believe) Obliteration.

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I pre-ordered one of the signed and personalized copies from Brandon, no shiny stuff for me... :(

 

Did anyone upload the images somewhere at least?

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I'm just going to think of the spren as the children of Honor and Cultivation.  Some take after their father, and some take after their mother.  So here's the thing that's bothering me, if the spren have been influenced by the Splintering of Honor, shouldn't that effect some of them more than others?  If there's two separate categories, one of Nahel bond spren, one of environment/situational spren, which is what I've been thinking, that still doesn't help explain anything.

 

Poor Nightblood, it's not insane, it's just Vasher's and Shashara's fault for giving it a very complicatd Command to follow. ("Destroy evil.")  Although I wonder if it still would have developed sentience if it was a simpler Command.

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If there's two separate categories, one of Nahel bond spren, one of environment/situational spren, which is what I've been thinking, that still doesn't help explain anything.

 

Sure it does Cheese.  Nahel spren could be voluntary splinters of Honor and Cultivation together each type having a varying degree of each Shard, where honorspren are likely exclusively of Honor and cultivationspren (theoretical) are exclusively of Cultivation.  Meanwhile, the more mundane spren are all involuntary splinters of Honor formed at the shattering of the shard and are formed exclusively of Honor.

Edited by Shardlet
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