Non-Cosmere? Right......

[aeromancer]

Funny how Brandon seems to be coming out with multiple books set in alternate earths.

Funny how the inherit magic systems seem to be both evil, and soft magic.

Funny how he claims that both are non-cosmere.

 

This seems like an awfully large COINCIDENCE and you know what they say about COINCIDENCES?

      "It takes an awful lot of work to make a coincidence" - Winston Churchill (probably)

 

Perhaps this has some connection to this mysterious "Adolnasium Opposing Force"?

 

Anybody think I'm on to something; or that this theory is the work of 999 monkeys in a room with a typewriter?

Edited July 14, 2013 by aeromancer

[firstRainbowRose]

 Word of Brandon is that none of the books set on Earth (or alternate earths such as Scribbler) are cosmere.  Sorry.

[Windrunner]

I also want to point out that Brandon doesn't lie. He'll be evasive, he'll give Aes Sedai answers, he'll RAFO stuff that's a plot point for a future book, but he doesn't lie.

[aeromancer]

Therefore what?

This is not "Cosmere-related" this is "anti-Cosmer".

 

Even still, this is a remarkable coincidence

[Windrunner]

I am not following you even one bit. Firstly, the magic in the Rithmatist is not inherently evil and is not soft magic, it's one of the most rigidly defined systems Brandon has ever written.

Secondly, Adonalsium is in the cosmere, so by definition, so is its opposing force. These are children's series, the cosmere is adult novels. There is no connection whatsoever beyond the occasional Easter egg in his children's books.

[aeromancer]

Rithmantist? The whole "Line of Making" thing? The wild Chalkings?

[firstRainbowRose]

I'm afraid I'm not understanding, and I don't see where you're going with some of your comments.  To help me understand, will you explain what you're thinking as though you were talking to someone who has only a passing understanding of cosmere theory?

[Carcinios]

I think I get where you're coming from but I highly doubt that Brandon would mix hard and soft magic systems (although I agree that the Rithmatist is not a soft system at all). The whole point of having the distinction between the two is so that you don't get a situation where something ill defined trumps a system that has been highly developed making the reader wonder 'why did I read all that exposition of magic systems if it wasn't going to do any good' and in the reverse where hard trumps soft you have the most lame villianous power imaginable. 'oh he has some kind of power but we are not going to develop it very well... oh look we beat him. hooray!'

 

Soft magic systems tend to take a back seat in the stories they are in whilst hard systems are integral to the resolution of the plot. I can't see a system where these would gel well together.

[happyman]

I think I get where you're coming from but I highly doubt that Brandon would mix hard and soft magic systems (although I agree that the Rithmatist is not a soft system at all). The whole point of having the distinction between the two is so that you don't get a situation where something ill defined trumps a system that has been highly developed making the reader wonder 'why did I read all that exposition of magic systems if it wasn't going to do any good' and in the reverse where hard trumps soft you have the most lame villianous power imaginable. 'oh he has some kind of power but we are not going to develop it very well... oh look we beat him. hooray!'

 

Soft magic systems tend to take a back seat in the stories they are in whilst hard systems are integral to the resolution of the plot. I can't see a system where these would gel well together.

 

I still have no idea where the original poster is coming from, but I wanted to address this.

There is nothing wrong with having soft magic systems in your book---if all they do is make life hard for the protagonists!  Magic that the main characters can't use can be abused by the author far more than magic which the main characters use and understand.

This is why some books, such as Lord of the Rings, which leave their magic undefined, have resolutions which involve no magic, and have the good-oriented magic users strongly constrained, whereas Mistborn has the magic largely understood and defined by the time the plot is resolved with it.  Even in soft magic systems, the magic can be central to the plot, as long as it is central to making the plot hard on the protagonists.

 

Edit: quick spelling fix

Edited July 15, 2013 by happyman

[Observer]

Am I the only one who read this post as a joke?

[Kurkistan]

Also, here's the essay by Brandon that I hazard happyman is drawing from. Either way, it's worth reading.

[Windrunner]

Am I the only one who read this post as a joke?

His response seems to indicate otherwise. If he comes here and says so, then I'd believe it.

[Lady_Yasha]

Funny how writers write different things not related to each other.

 

I'm not sure what's a "remarkable coincidence" about it when we have it confirmed from not only Brandon himself, but his close confidants. FirstRainbowRose knows Brandon in person, so she has a good grasp on his personality. I'd believe her if she says Brandon isn't prone to lying about his work.

[Shardlet]

No doubt.  Rainbow and Rubix are canon now because of AoL .

[Carcinios]

I still have no idea where the original poster is coming from, but I wanted to address this.

There is nothing wrong with having soft magic systems in your book---if all they do is make life hard for the protagonists!  Magic that the main characters can't use can be abused by the author far more than magic which the main characters use and understand.

This is why some books, such as Lord of the Rings, which leave their magic undefined, have resolutions which involve no magic, and have the good-oriented magic users strongly constrained, whereas Mistborn has the magic largely understood and defined by the time the plot is resolved with it.  Even in soft magic systems, the magic can be central to the plot, as long as it is central to making the plot hard on the protagonists.

 

Edit: quick spelling fix

 

Just to clarify. I am not against soft magic systems at all. But given Brandon Sanderson's observed preference for hard magic I would be massively surprised if there is anything magical in his books which is a big plot point and vague in its function or explanation.

 

So as far as what OP seems to be saying (I think...)

1. Cosmere uses hard magic
2. Alternative Earth uses Soft (or softer) magic
3. Assuming the 'opposing force' of Adonalsium is 'opposite' rather than just 'against' as I and others have done in different theories, but is by no means certain, then we could imagine that the opposing force is outside the Cosmere since Adonalsium is inside the Cosmere.

4. Therefore we get a multiple universe theory where Cosmere and Alternate Earth are conntected but not in the same universe.

 

I don't agree with this theory but that was what I understood the OP to be suggesting

[aeromancer]

I'm kind of joking. Obviously this has no relevance whatsoever to the Cosmere and it would be cool if it it did.

 

There is a coincidence still at work here. Also, Alcatraz is set on Alternate Earth. (If you are paranoid and think Alcatraz is real, the Maxim Suffolk Hospital for the Criminally Insane has a cozy cell for you. Seriously. Don't kill Liebrarians)

 

Rithmantist: The "Line of Making" is definetly soft magic. I don"t have a quote, but there so much poetic stuff of "if the chalking sees itself as beautiful" and etc. Other components no, but the Line of Making, yes.

 

Edit: There is nothing wrong with soft magic. The rarity of it in a Brandon book is what I'm driving at.

 

Just to clarify. I am not against soft magic systems at all. But given Brandon Sanderson's observed preference for hard magic I would be massively surprised if there is anything magical in his books which is a big plot point and vague in its function or explanation.

 

So as far as what OP seems to be saying (I think...)

1. Cosmere uses hard magic
2.  
3. Alternative Earth uses Soft (or softer) magic
4.  
5. Assuming the 'opposing force' of Adonalsium is 'opposite' rather than just 'against' as I and others have done in different theories, but is by no means certain, then we could imagine that the opposing force is outside the Cosmere since Adonalsium is inside the Cosmere.

6.  
7. Therefore we get a multiple universe theory where Cosmere and Alternate Earth are conntected but not in the same universe.
8.  

 

I don't agree with this theory but that was what I understood the OP to be suggesting

 

Yeah, basically in a nutshell what I was saying.

Edited July 18, 2013 by firstRainbowRose
Please use the edit button instead of double posting

[Kurkistan]

Though my post is unrelated to the main point of the thread as well, I'd hardly say we must needs categorize Rithmatics as "soft". Brandon likes his hard magic.

 

If it was Cosmere, I'd throw the Cognitive Realm and Forms at chalklings so fast that they wouldn't know what hit them. As it is, I've no doubt that the perceptions of the drawer/the local population/humanity at large/THE UNIVERSE plays into how chalklings work.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Observer]

I feel chalklings are no less rigid in their rules than any other line, they are simply less understood. In future books I'm sure the exact rules behind them will be explained more thoroughly.

[Windrunner]

Those are my thoughts as well, Observer. A good question to ask would be whether someone who was a terrible artist but believed that they were great would create powerful chalk longs or not.

[Shardlet]

If I may use some realmatic terminology without actually referring to realmatics, there definitely is a cognitive aspect (so to speak) to rithmatics.  A rithmatic line does nothing unless you know what you are drawing and you intend for that effect to happen.  This would not be apparent with lines of warding and forbiddance since your intent in drawing them would always be for maximum defense.  This is coupled and limited by your skill at drawing these lines.  Now, the line of silencing is rather unexplored.  Could you draw the line with the intent to invoke a specific level of silencing without having to draw a physical difference in the line?  I think maybe so.  At one point Joel can't speak louder than a whisper while at another he can't speak above talking level.  So, it is entirely possible in my mind for such a cognitive aspect (remember, only borrowing terminology to identify a concept; no realmatics involved) to apply to lines of making as well.

 

No actual realmatic theory was applied to any settings, persons, or actions outside the Cosmere in the above post. Any similarities in the above post to realmatic theory are purely coincidental and do not represent any belief of a connection between the Rithmatist and the Cosmere or that any Cosmere phenomenon such as the existance of a cognitive realm can, is, or should be applied to any books set an Earth or an alternative reality Earth or any book known to not be set in the Cosmere.

[Windrunner]

An upvote because your disclaimer cracked me up. There's definitely a mental component there.

[Observer]

Clearly Lightsong's drunk monkey is sitting in the sky as judge. And monkeys don't like colored circles.

[Ethan_sedai]

it seems Obliteration is a brass ferring