Lady_Yasha

It ever occur that some people are just evil? Some men just want to watch the world burn... or something >.>

Funny how writers write different things not related to each other. I'm not sure what's a "remarkable coincidence" about it when we have it confirmed from not only Brandon himself, but his close confidants. FirstRainbowRose knows Brandon in person, so she has a good grasp on his personality. I'd believe her if she says Brandon isn't prone to lying about his work.

Neither are necessarily evil, just enacting the provisions of their Intent. Scenes in Hero of Ages might suggest Ati wasn't always villainous and we know that a Shard's Intent molds the holder. Odium's holder could have been a saint before (s)he picked up the Shard. At this juncture it's too vague to estimate exactly what Brandon was referring to. You could weave your theories all night long and still doubt yourself. Until we learn more about the 17th Shard and Hoid's intent (who for all intents and purposes could be hunting Hoid down for shattering Adonalsium, or they shattered him and Hoid is the last remaining agent of Adonalsium - like I said: vague), we can't know for sure. Although the question Brandon answered in the affirmative used "opposed," contrary to "opposite of Adonalsium." So it's entirely possible that Adonalsium's opposition is not of the same being and could be anything or anyone.

Actually, I was quoting your interpretation of Brandon's answer. It was a genuine question not intended to hurt or slander you. If you took it as offensive then you misinterpreted it, not me. If you had a problem with the way it was phrased you should have drawn attention to your concern then. I have very dutifully, and very comprehensively addressed every point you have made. Unlike yourself who has ignored several points made by not just me, but everyone else in this thread. If you felt I was being terse then why did you treat everyone else who was trying to have a discussion with you under the same pretense? This thread is going to get moderator intervention soon and I've said everything within limits that I need to.

In speech, grammatical rules are often dropped or misused. Related parts of speech don't conform to the set standards of written syntax which can be analysed and optimized. As I said before, these quotes are written ad verbatim, and still carry the same irregularities as spoken language. Our interpretation is valid not just on these grounds however. As Windrunner has pointed out, Brandon speaks in rhetoric and hypothetical, possibly to generate mystery about his work. Besides, I'm not the only one to interpret it this way and I have no formal education in linguistics. Also, congratulations on cherry picking both Windrunner's and my posts again. Maybe you should adhere to your own criticisms.

So you admitting that you read it means you conveniently ignored it in your last post to make a jab at my integrity? I find that offensive. Given that this is verbatim it's very plausible to relate Brandon's restriction to the Atium and Lerasium alloy. Only you interpreted it the way you have, are you saying multiple people all arriving at the same conclusion independently are wrong? The fact is we don't know what Brandon truly intended with that statement. But we know that some of the characters that have understood the Realms have never been in a position to hold a Shard. You can make unsupported claims that they were touched by a Shard's mind but there's no evidence for it, so we're free to assume - by logical deduction - that Realmatic Theory has the possibility to be understood by normal people. Most. Referring to the theories of alloying Lerasium with Atium, a complex subject in Realmatic Theory that you'd need to be a Shard to understand. Why is that interpretation not valid?

... I answered that latter point in a previous post. Here it is: It's post #46 if you want to read it again. Don't accuse me of ignoring a point when you lack the conviction to thoroughly explore your own defense.

Put two sticks and three sticks together and you have five. Break two of those sticks evenly and you have 4 halves. Each stick is one quarter of that group of broken sticks. Take away three sticks and you're left with two. That basic logic of mathematics is dependent on being able to understand why putting two sticks with three equals five. Some lesser minds could sit there and scratch their heads if I say 128 + 128 = 256, but you need to understand it as a function to appreciate more complex formula. You also need to understand decimal point systems to know that the 2 is of a higher order than the 5 and which is to the 6. If you understand arithmetic, you have a basic understanding of mathematics, because you understand the operators of addition and subtraction and also multiplication and division. These operators are basic, no arguement. You're detrimentally under-estimating the importance of Realms by avoiding the definition of basic, and substituting your own false convictions to argue your point. Can't load a rifle? You can't fire your gun. Can't fire your gun? Sorry son but you can't be a soldier. Can't do arithmetic, you have no hope of being able to do mathematics. It is so fundamental that it provides mathematics with its functionality. Just as the Realms provide Realmatics with a basic foundation for higher and more complex phenomena to interact. Try doing any integration without arithmetic... You can't. Try explaining sDNA without the Spiritual Realm.

So by that logic the Phoenician abjad isn't important to the development of language? Alphabets aren't really important to linguistics at all. Arithmetic's not important to mathematics. Biology's not important to medicine. See where I'm going with this? The Three Realms are what allow Realmatics to function as a valid construct of the cosmere, and what allow the cosmere to exist. My analogy of the atom given function by its constituent parts was not inaccurate; strip away the proton and you'd have to redefine the entirety of physics. Take away one of the Realms and you'd have to redefine Realmatics. That is nothing to undervalue as something less than basic when the entire theory is dependent on it. Just as mathematics is dependent on the basic function of arithmetic and numeral systems. However, I feel that the Realms are more akin to the mathematical law that governs every aspect of mathematics. For someone to discover and describe with accuracy the three layers of the universe it'd be quite important to further understanding of the science. Just as we described particle physics before we could even begin to understand quantum mechanics or M-theory, Realmatics is only possible because of the existence of the Realms and their definition. Saying that isn't important or even basic is absurd.

No. No it's not. [source: Coppermind.net] They're pretty important to understanding Realmatics... Without the Three Realms, Realmatic Theory can't exist. He's also said Realmatic Theory was part of the Terris religion.* An entire religion of people can't be Shards can they? And I'm pretty sure more than a few people in this thread have interpreted what Brandon said differently to you. Of note: advanced knowledge of alloying two God metals would almost certainly require an intimate knowledge of the Shards that created them. I believe that was what Brandon was referring to. *http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977 #182

Your point was that non-Shard holders couldn't begin to understand or comprehend Realmatics, when evidence shows that several members of the cosmere have displayed that ability. Shai has a profound understanding of the three realms - her knowledge is not "so-so." If we're comparing it to the atomic model, her description is beyond Dalton's Plum Pudding theory and has already begun laying groundwork for the Standard Model. Every magic system we've seen obeys the laws of physics, so I have to operate on the logic that Realmatics is a readily observable scientific phenomena. Given sufficient technology, the magic of the cosmere could be examined by its inhabitants. It's underlying principles defined via theoretical examination. We've made theories for countless phenomena based purely on speculation and mathematical analysis. If Realmatics obeys the laws of physics it is constrained by mathematical law and can therefore be examined in this way. If Shai has already described a starting point, what's to stop people examining her theory? You can't say that the three realms don't count; they are integral to the composition of Realmatics. That's like saying up-quarks are not essential to the atom. Realmatics is a law of the universe.

So are you going to address the rest of my post that I courteously took the time to write? Also, if you're right in your assessment about having to be a Shard to begin to understand Realmatics, how come Shai has a clear understanding of the basics? ~Shai to Gaotona* Not to mention Realmatics is, in part, present in the Terris, Vorin, and MaiPon religions. In The Way of Kings, Gavarah had also proposed the theory of the three realms, related to Shallan by Jasnah in one of her lectures. Here's the quote: ** I haven't just cherry picked that quote, the rest of the context gives no reason to not believe it's Realmatic related. * http://coppermind.net/wiki/Realmatic_Theory ** http://tinyurl.com/l3mcwpt (opens in same tab)

There's zero profanity in it that's not engineered by Robert Jordan himself. Lots of "bloody" but I don't consider that profanity anyway. But there is actually no colloquial profanity in the Wheel of Time books. As far as sex goes the scenes are fairly mild, lightly descriptive, and cut short of anything too descriptive, or before intercourse starts. I believe there is one scene, but it was so vague in description I'm doubting if I remembered it correctly. In short, the romance in WoT is done tastefully. Belgariad was Eddings' best series; worth a shot at least if you were already looking into it. And you say you like Dune and Asimov's works, have you tried Phillip K. Dick? Arthur C. Clarke is a paragon of science fiction too. And there's also William Gibson, though his stuff if very heavy on the literature. His prose is very noir, which is either something you'll enjoy, or you won't.

Word of god, or your opinion? We're not even sure if Hoid held a Shard yet and he's able to manipulate Realmatic Theory. Sazed's mental capacity was increased astronomically when he took up Preservation and Ruin - processing logical conclusions based on observation and evidence seen through the lense of a Shard would happen instantly only to our perceptions. How fast can you do complex mental arithmetic? Much faster than some people, right? And still others with a higher IQ can do it faster than you. Some people can comprehend in a year a medical course that would take the average student four years of struggle and dedication. Some people just "get" physics, while others are confused by it. All of that is relative to intellectual capacity. It's safe to say a Shard's capacity is much greater than our own. Seeing and then understanding how atoms work is a matter of deduction for Sazed. In realistic terms it'd be like condensing the time it takes Bill Nye to understand a concept in mechanical engineering versus one of his average students. Nye is the Shard who is able to look at the various components of what is observable, and present a sufficiently accurate conclusion. The knowledge is not innate to Sazed, he is just able to compute the constituents much faster than we can comprehend. He still struggled with his powers while trying to find an equilibrium for Scadrial. While adjusting the solar system he had to experiment and observe the results, and then adjust to find suitable conditions. That doesn't speak of innate knowledge to me.

Driving's awesome. It's the one place I can turn my inward anger at people blaring dubstep as they drive by when I crank up the volume on Iron Maiden, driving by a group of tracksuit clad cretins.

Intelligence is as superficial as the existential mind. It has no physical reality, only a concept; a concept that allowed creativity but is itself not created.

I'm still hungover from two nights ago.

Steris is not a tsundere. Tsundere's will belligerently and vehemently abuse you before making sweet love to you. Steris just shows indifference and exasperation towards Wax, which is nothing indicative of tsun-tsun. If you want a true tsundere character have a look at Taiga from Toradora, or Revy from Black Lagoon. Hell, I imagine even Ranette could turn out to be one if she takes Wayne up on his googly eyes, she certainly likes shooting people from what we've heard, especially Wax and Wayne.

Best. Topic. Ever! Muse are okay, but Survival was a terrible song. Most of their material since Black Holes is nothing impressive. I'd be embarrassed for Kelsier if this played behind him in his battle. He deserves Two Steps From Hell.

It still stands that it'd be possible to kill yourself if you store too much Luck. Tripping over and breaking your neck when if you weren't storing Luck that would have been a little stumble, or nothing at all. I don't see why a roof should collapse on you unless you start storing Luck before you chose and walked into a building that just happens to have a rotted roof support. Luck would affect your choice of building to reside in, not the roof magically becoming unstable. Likewise, just before you make a choice to turn either left or right while being pursued, storing Luck would increase your chance of turning down the dead-end alley. Of course, this could still happen to normal people so storing Luck doesn't have to mean every decision or choice results in a negative outcome. It just decreases the odds that you'll make the right decision or avoid stepping on that one loose cobble in the entire street that makes you trip and fall into a noble woman's breasts and her husband challenges you to a duel, or gets very offended and hits you with his cane. On topic: Tin Allomancy - I'd love the increased senses. Sparker for Feruchemy. Or if I had tin as Feruchemy then I'd have steel in Allomancy.

SPOILERS: Rand's realization was very important and essential to his sanity. Without love he would have broken the world in anger. Veins of Gold spoke volumes about the entire story; with the exception of Those Who Fight, this was my favourite chapter of the entire series because it illustrated a very basic and raw human emotion that the Shadow could never possess. Love was not the weapon against the Shadow - nothing cheesy like that. But it was important for Rand to learn this as he'd been teaching himself the opposite by suppressing his compassion. //spoiler Besides that I was very satisfied with what the Dark One turned out to be and Rand's battle with it. I've followed Wheel of Time for seven years but even if you're new to the series I think the ending will captivate and bind your wonder into the myth and legend tale it is. The final pages of the book are a perfect send off to a wonderful story.

I don't think I ever saw the glory in Rand being tortured in Lord of Chaos, or Egwene being chained as a damane, or Mat being hung for knowledge. Rand had to contest with claustrophobia after those events, and a severe mistrust of all Aes Sedai that threatened to break alliances important to the survival of the world. Egwene's crippling hatred of the Seanchan almost destroyed their already shaky truce in A Memory of Light, and caused her to lash out several times in the past that left her and the people in her company with the repercussions. Mat didn't want the memories of dead men in his head, however useful they are, he didn't want to be a hero - he hates that stuff. All their experiences and others have shown to have had negative consequences for the development of the character. I don't think we read the same books because I felt the horror that they had to endure and then live with even when they were free from it. How about Semirhage collaring Rand and making him hurt Min? It made Rand guilty and only strengthened his conviction that he had to protect everyone, which as you saw in the climax of AMoL almost destroyed him to let the Dark One win. So no, I never saw them as "glorious." Obstacles yes, but they were natural in the sense that our characters didn't necessarily have to overcome them in a cliched fashion and tie them all in a pretty bow at the end. But rather how they dealt with them and was it even possible to overcome them, or did they just have to live with the scars beyond the final words of the last book. Granted, you didn't like the books. That's fair. But I just can't see how you interpreted Robert Jordan's work as glorifying abhorrent behaviour. A reaction to a book is very much personal. If I decided to go out and scream "I'M THE DRAGON REBORN, BOW TO ME!!" in public then I've been affected on a personal level. Just as you would tell people who inquire about a review that it's not worth the effort. Likewise, if I started knife duels because it's okay in Ebou Dar people would call me insane (and rightly so). If I go out and start deriding a woman because characters in WoT do it, it must be acceptable behaviour, right? I've interpreted that from the books personally. But we know it's bad, we can understand it's bad, and if you can't see why it's unacceptable behaviour then it's not the fault of the book. The book is not explicitly telling you to go outside and be a racist bigot just because the Tairens and Illianers are. And yes, I know all about Mark Twain. But even he would agree that Mat is just awesome.

There's a passage in both Eye of the World (chapter 51) and A Memory of Light that sounds as if the Creator is talking directly to Rand. In the former, the Creator says the world's fate is down to the Chosen One, specifically referencing Rand. But it could still hold up to your theory if what Rand is hearing is an echo of a distant past when he was once born as the Dragon Reborn, much like he hears the voice of his predecessor as though it's a present and continuous voice.

If you're reading a book and stop to think, "huh, maybe bullying people isn't so bad after all," then it's not the book's fault. You just had shaky morals to begin with that could have been catalyzed by almost anything. Don't blame a book for that behaviour. I don't think I've thought for one moment that WoT conveyed the negative traits of humanity as something admirable. There's a little compensation for the gender issues in WoT, in that their magic system has divided men and women distinctly. Because it's so prominent in the world it's affected the development of society in a way that both genders clearly define themselves in mimicry of this. The bad things in WoT are nothing short of what history tells us is accurate in society back then, when WoT would likely have taken place in a mid-late Renaissance setting when gunpowder was just being developed. Everything you just mentioned was quite common back then thanks to the caste system and organised groups of founding philosophies, religions, and movements, similar to how the Children, the Aes Sedai, et al, exert their influence on people. On another note: Keep rape out of books and you guys will be happy. Check. Bigtones, it's well worth reading even if you feel you have to slog through the mid-section of the series. Though Path of Daggers and Crossroads of Twilight are the only ones that gave me grief you'll hear Winter's Heart dragged as well, despite that being my favourite. But keep reading for the end of A Memory of Light: You won't be disappointed, I can assure you.

I think Meg was yanking your chain, kroen.