Ahu’s Ramblings: Everstorm Is An Unmade

[+Child of Hodor]

Spoiler

 

“Which one got to you little one? The Black fisher, the spawning mother, the faceless one? Moelach is close I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking through walls.”

”I have no idea what you’re talking about.”

“Madness.” Ahu said, then giggled.

“I used to think It wasn’t my fault. But you know, we can’t escape what we did? We let them in. We attracted them, we befriended them, took them out to dance and courted them. It is our fault. You open yourself to it and you pay the price. They ripped my brain out and made it dance. I watched.” - OB Ch. 88 

 

Looking at Ahu’s ramblings led me to connect the Unmade to the Heralds breaking as others have and while I was writing this it clicked that the Everstorm could be 10th Unmade created from the 10th Herald breaking. 

OR should I say E-Vers-Torm?!?!

 

I hid the passage above for length. It is Jezrien rambling to Dalinar in the flashback.

What’s he talking about?

I know the very end he is referencing the Fused torturing him. But the beginning is about the Unmade and the middle fits the Unmade since they are ancient spren, better than the Fused who are cognitive shadows of Singers. 

“We let them in” They let the Fused OUT, doesn’t seem right. 

“We attracted them” How many times have we heard ”attracting a spren” used in SA?

”Befriended them” eh, restating the last thing doesn’t tell us much. 

“You open yourself up to it and you pay the price” - open up to a bond like with a Spren? 

”They ripped my brain out” This has to be the Fused. 

Is there more of a connection between the Unmade and the Heralds than previously thought? I know there is the theory that one was created when each of the nine Heralds broke their first time. 

I was skeptical of it, where is the 10th now that Taln broke? But Jezrien seems to be lumping them in with the start and cause of all the problems.

What if the Unmade were previously the Dawnshards and were bonded to Heralds to help with the Oathpact? The breaking of the Heralds damaged these spren and allowed Odium to Unmake them.

“We were made, then Unmade” Sja-Anat to Shallan CH. 84

The Unmade weren’t always as they are now and the change was a destructive one. People make oaths. The Heralds “bent” their Oaths according to the Stormfather OB ch. 38. One oath Unmade per Herald.

“A champion could work well for you but it is uncertain. ... And without the Dawnshards” tWoK Ch. 75

Honor seems to imply the Dawnshards were helpful against Odium in the past, but won’t be available.

“Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind all creatures mortal and voidish, he crawled up the steps made for Heralds ten strides tall apiece toward the grand temple above.” tWoK Ch . 36

A Dawnshard that was “known to” as in had already proven it can bind creatures including voidish. It proved this when it helped with binding the Fused for the Oathpact. 

“One Dawnshard is different from all the rest”  -WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/226/#e4824

One is different cause it’s the one Odium wasn’t able to corrupt. He got 9 out of 10. 

“That matches the vision Dalinar saw, though some reports mention ten Unmade”.- OB Ch 77 

There are 10 Dawnshards 9 of which have been Unmade leading to the 9 or 10 confusion. 

But if Taln broke shouldn’t there be a 10th now? Yes, it’s the Everstorm. 

Unmade we’ve seen are all corrupted / co-opted black or red investiture. The Everstorm clouds are black and it’s lightning is red. 

Its not spelled E-Vers-Torm like a proper Unmade, but that would give the game away. 

Possible that Everstorm is what it used to be called before Odium modded it. Which is why Tanavast and the Stormfather already knew its name before it came. Tanavast calls it that in the visions. 

[Lunamor she/her]

4 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

  Hide contents

 

“Which one got to you little one? The Black fisher, the spawning mother, the faceless one? Moelach is close I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking through walls.”

”I have no idea what you’re talking about.”

“Madness.” Ahu said, then giggled.

“I used to think It wasn’t my fault. But you know, we can’t escape what we did? We let them in. We attracted them, we befriended them, took them out to dance and courted them. It is our fault. You open yourself to it and you pay the price. They ripped my brain out and made it dance. I watched.” - OB Ch. 88 

 

Looking at Ahu’s ramblings led me to connect the Unmade to the Heralds breaking as others have and while I was writing this it clicked that the Everstorm could be 10th Unmade created from the 10th Herald breaking. 

OR should I say E-Vers-Torm?!?!

 

I hid the passage above for length. It is Jezrien rambling to Dalinar in the flashback.

What’s he talking about?

I know the very end he is referencing the Fused torturing him. But the beginning is about the Unmade and the middle fits the Unmade since they are ancient spren, better than the Fused who are cognitive shadows of Singers. 

“We let them in” They let the Fused OUT, doesn’t seem right. 

“We attracted them” How many times have we heard ”attracting a spren” used in SA?

”Befriended them” eh, restating the last thing doesn’t tell us much. 

“You open yourself up to it and you pay the price” - open up to a bond like with a Spren? 

”They ripped my brain out” This has to be the Fused. 

Is there more of a connection between the Unmade and the Heralds than previously thought? I know there is the theory that one was created when each of the nine Heralds broke their first time. 

I was skeptical of it, where is the 10th now that Taln broke? But Jezrien seems to be lumping them in with the start and cause of all the problems.

What if the Unmade were previously the Dawnshards and were bonded to Heralds to help with the Oathpact? The breaking of the Heralds damaged these spren and allowed Odium to Unmake them.

“We were made, then Unmade” Sja-Anat to Shallan CH. 84

The Unmade weren’t always as they are now and the change was a destructive one. People make oaths. The Heralds “bent” their Oaths according to the Stormfather OB ch. 38. One oath Unmade per Herald.

“A champion could work well for you but it is uncertain. ... And without the Dawnshards” tWoK Ch. 75

Honor seems to imply the Dawnshards were helpful against Odium in the past, but won’t be available.

“Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind all creatures mortal and voidish, he crawled up the steps made for Heralds ten strides tall apiece toward the grand temple above.” tWoK Ch . 36

A Dawnshard that was “known to” as in had already proven it can bind creatures including voidish. It proved this when it helped with binding the Fused for the Oathpact. 

“One Dawnshard is different from all the rest”  -WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/226/#e4824

One is different cause it’s the one Odium wasn’t able to corrupt. He got 9 out of 10. 

“That matches the vision Dalinar saw, though some reports mention ten Unmade”.- OB Ch 77 

There are 10 Dawnshards 9 of which have been Unmade leading to the 9 or 10 confusion. 

But if Taln broke shouldn’t there be a 10th now? Yes, it’s the Everstorm. 

Unmade we’ve seen are all corrupted / co-opted black or red investiture. The Everstorm clouds are black and it’s lightning is red. 

Its not spelled E-Vers-Torm like a proper Unmade, but that would give the game away. 

Possible that Everstorm is what it used to be called before Odium modded it. Which is why Tanavast and the Stormfather already knew its name before it came. Tanavast calls it that in the visions. 

This... this is genius!!! It totally makes sense! I am out of upvotes, but will give one tomorrow!

Edited March 10, 2019 by Lunamor

[+Child of Hodor]

I want to add that the Everstorm barely behaves like a storm. Even by Roshar magic storm standards.

It’s default speed is 9 day revolutions but before the battle of Taylen City it came in 5 days. Then it comes to a complete stop for the battle.

Sometimes it’s loud but a lot of times it’s windless and silent except for the red lightning. 

“It was hauntingly silent. Those red lightning bolts didn’t rumble in a proper way.” - OB CH. 4

“Some reports of the Everstorm mention no wind, only lightning. Other confusingly reported no rain, but burning embers. The Everstorm varies greatly, even within each passing” - OB CH. 59 

The Highstorms seem like a healthy mix of natural storm and magic. 

This is something else. The OG Stormspren summoned by the Singers with little stormspren in their hearts. 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

Aren't the Dawnshards just another name for Shards of Adonalsium? I always assumed they meant that they had destroyed their planet using Odium's power.

[+Child of Hodor]

25 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Aren't the Dawnshards just another name for Shards of Adonalsium? I always assumed they meant that they had destroyed their planet using Odium's power.

They are a Roshar system specific thing.

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Dawnshard

Brandon usually RAFOs any questions about them. 

The Stormfather tells Dalinar “He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls.” OB Ch. 113

Why would the stormfather call his god a weapon and why the plural if Odium was the weapon that destroyed Ashyn? 

Honor mentions the Dawnshards in a vision. Why we would he call himself that when he calls himself a god and The Almighty in the same vision? 

[Blightsong he/him]

Interesting interpretation, good theory. I'm still convinced that this conversation was alluding to a theory of mine: that the scream's Dalinar hears are connected to Szeth and the Herald's madness. Read the below WoB and let me know what you think:

Quote

Blightsong [PENDING REVIEW]
People tend to hear a lot of voices on Roshar in their heads. And I've noticed that a lot of people either have been confirmed to be in contact with Unmade or show a lot of signs of that. Is there a correlation there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Yes.

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Blightsong

[Spoolofwhool]

All WoBs on the matter indicate that there are only nine Unmade. Unless Brandon is deliberately lying to us to mislead us, which would be incredibly out of character for him as far as I can tell, I can't see how there could be a tenth Unmade. I'm not entirely disinclined to believed the "Unmade were dawnshards" theories, but I think it's fairly strongly stated that at this point in time there are still only nine Unmade. 

Quote

Pagerunner [PENDING REVIEW]

The Starfall vision. Ten Deaths, referring to the Midnight Essence. That's what the one Radiant said, they're the Ten Deaths. Is that the Unmade, the Ten Deaths.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Well, there's nine Unmade, so...

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

Quote

XS-Terrain [PENDING REVIEW]

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain [PENDING REVIEW]

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

 

[dvoraen]

4 hours ago, Blightsong said:

Interesting interpretation, good theory. I'm still convinced that this conversation was alluding to a theory of mine: that the scream's Dalinar hears are connected to Szeth and the Herald's madness. Read the below WoB and let me know what you think:

Yeah I'm still trying to decide how I feel about Brandon's answer to you on that particular point (voices in the head and the Unmade).  I feel like I've both overthought it, and that it's a lot simpler than we think.  The latter means: "people affected by the Unmade are more open/vulnerable/receptive to other things", because the Unmade 'consume' and have been shown to cause Cognitive damage (Ashertmarn, Nergaoul) as well as Spiritual damage (Yelig-nar, Ba-Ado-Mishram's capture).

 

In other words, Rosharan people may well be at "1.5 cosmere standard" for cracks in the soul, you might say.

Edited March 10, 2019 by dvoraen

[Calderis he/him]

My biggest issue with any the Unmade/Herald theories that have emerged over the past year has always been this WoB. (and it's a fun WoB) 

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Is the number of Unmade fixed?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Argent (paraphrased)

Is it ten, is it ten, is it ten, is it ten, is it ten?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Is it ten? No, it's not ten.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

The number of Unmade is "Fixed" 

[ginger_reckoning]

This theory makes a lot of sense!

[+Child of Hodor]

20 hours ago, Calderis said:

My biggest issue with any the Unmade/Herald theories that have emerged over the past year has always been this WoB. (and it's a fun WoB) 

The number of Unmade is "Fixed" 

Agreed if he says it’s fixed then that pretty much settles it.

On 3/10/2019 at 4:13 AM, dvoraen said:

Yeah I'm still trying to decide how I feel about Brandon's answer to you on that particular point (voices in the head and the Unmade).  I feel like I've both overthought it, and that it's a lot simpler than we think.  The latter means: "people affected by the Unmade are more open/vulnerable/receptive to other things", because the Unmade 'consume' and have been shown to cause Cognitive damage (Ashertmarn, Nergaoul) as well as Spiritual damage (Yelig-nar, Ba-Ado-Mishram's capture).

 

In other words, Rosharan people may well be at "1.5 cosmere standard" for cracks in the soul, you might say.

Yeah, I thought about it more I think when he says “we” he means he and Dalinar attracted Unmade through the bad things they did. That’s why they hear voices and such.

One other minor thing of note, Jezrien says “I used to think it wasn’t my fault” which is the thing Odium loves to tell people.

”I drove you to do this. It wasn’t your fault.” OB ch 118

“Give up your pain ... You can’t be blamed. Stop carrying that burden.” OB ch 54 Moash hears a voice in his head. It’s either Odium or his spren.

It’s more a theme than anything and it’s a very human thing to blame others even without Odium.

But maybe Odium got them to feel less responsible for their actions which made it easier for them to quit. 

[Argent he/him]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:20 AM, Calderis said:

My biggest issue with any the Unmade/Herald theories that have emerged over the past year has always been this WoB. (and it's a fun WoB) 

The number of Unmade is "Fixed" 

Still upset I don't have that on audio

[Calderis he/him]

44 minutes ago, Argent said:

Still upset I don't have that on audio

Me too. You're "is it ten is it ten is it ten is it ten!?!?!" needs the audio. 

[ScavellTane]

Im wondering if the Unmade became Unmade because 9 were individually changed or because they are a set of 10 and became Unmade because one was destroyed.

[Karger he/him]

On 3/10/2019 at 0:20 PM, Calderis said:

The number of Unmade is "Fixed" 

This implies that the method by which the Unmade where made is not repeatable.

On 3/10/2019 at 4:26 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

So according to your theory Ishar who the stormfather calls the maddest of them all does not have an unmade.  Why is that?  Is he crazy for unrelated reasons?  Also if each herald had an unmade corresponding directly to them then it would be one to one as each order has one herald as a patron. 

Look forward to hearing responses I actually like this theory but I think we might need to plug some holes.

[Spoolofwhool]

34 minutes ago, Karger said:

So according to your theory Ishar who the stormfather calls the maddest of them all does not have an unmade.  Why is that?  Is he crazy for unrelated reasons?  Also if each herald had an unmade corresponding directly to them then it would be one to one as each order has one herald as a patron. 

I never proposed a theory, I just said that I think it's basically fact that there are nine Unmade and posted WoBs on that. With regards to your question though, I don't think that Unmade really correspond to Heralds and that any correspondence to Knight Radiant orders is pretty minimal, as Brandon points out.

[Karger he/him]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:42 PM, Child of Hodor said:

But if Taln broke shouldn’t there be a 10th now? Yes, it’s the Everstorm. 

Is this not a theory?

[Scion of the Mists]

11 hours ago, Karger said:

On 3/9/2019 at 9:42 PM, Child of Hodor said:

But if Taln broke shouldn’t there be a 10th now? Yes, it’s the Everstorm. 

Is this not a theory?

That is a theory; however, it is from a different person.  

[Karger he/him]

33 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

That is a theory; however, it is from a different person.  

I am aware.  The original statement was not meant for him.

[+Child of Hodor]

12 hours ago, Karger said:

This implies that the method by which the Unmade where made is not repeatable.

So according to your theory Ishar who the stormfather calls the maddest of them all does not have an unmade.  Why is that?  Is he crazy for unrelated reasons?  Also if each herald had an unmade corresponding directly to them then it would be one to one as each order has one herald as a patron. 

Look forward to hearing responses I actually like this theory but I think we might need to plug some holes.

12 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I never proposed a theory, I just said that I think it's basically fact that there are nine Unmade and posted WoBs on that. With regards to your question though, I don't think that Unmade really correspond to Heralds and that any correspondence to Knight Radiant orders is pretty minimal, as Brandon points out.

That's a good point. I don't know that I buy my theory anymore that they had to do with the Heralds breaking. I'm thinking the unmade were previously part of a group 10 spren that represented the fundamental forces. Whether these were known as the Dawnshards I dunno.

10 is the magic number of the Roshar system and of the surges aka the 10 fundamental forces. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/74/#e9725

Odium may not have wanted the Connection spren or surge because he's not a fan of bringing things together. He turns people against each other, he splinters shards, he doesn't want to pick up any other shards because he doesn't want to connect Odium with another intent. He may just not want that spren or the fundamental force of bringing things together that it represents because it runs counter to his intent. 

There may be a 10th fundamental force spren that he chose not to co-opt. 

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

There may be a 10th fundamental force spren that he chose not to co-opt. 

That's what I believe the sibling is, and also why I believe that bonding an Unmade would result in a Bondsmith, explaining why the in world Words of Radiance mentions that talk of expanding the order of Bondsmiths was seen as seditious. 

[Karger he/him]

This does beg the question of why he chose not to corrupt it or why he could not.

[twenty second of the sun]

 

On 3/9/2019 at 10:31 PM, Blightsong said:

Interesting interpretation, good theory. I'm still convinced that this conversation was alluding to a theory of mine: that the scream's Dalinar hears are connected to Szeth and the Herald's madness. Read the below WoB and let me know what you think:

 

WHY do these people who have killed many hear these voices

 

[Blightsong he/him]

3 hours ago, twenty second of the sun said:

 

WHY do these people who have killed many hear these voices

 

This is my answer to that question.

[Quantus he/him]

On the topic of the number of Unmade being Fixed:  that doesnt necessarily mean that there can't be any new UnMade, it could instead means that there are somehow only a Fixed number of UnMade "Slots" and to get a new one requires that Odium loose, sacrifice, and/or destroy one of his existing ones.  For example, if the Everstorm is a new one, maybe he destroyed one of the ones we havent seen to use as raw materials.  Or maybe one of the UnMade defecting to Team Honor would free up a slot to create a new one.