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Three Metallic Arts - Oversleeped

Oversleep

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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My first theory, yeah!
Less more of consistent theory, more of pointing out things we don't know which are important for better understanding of TMA.
What's in blue is what I'd like to get WoBed about. Or see WoBed.

First (Question/Theory): Double godmetal alloys
We have:

  • 16 base metals
  • lerasium + 16 alloys with base metals
  • atium + 16 alloys with base metals

If we assume that harmonium is not atium-lerasium alloy, then another question arises:
Are there lerasium alloys which make atium (and atium alloys) Mistings? Seers are a thing, but we don't know if they can be created by lerasium alloy.
Assuming it's possible, now everything goes weird, since there should be also lerasium alloys of atium alloys, to make atium alloys Mistings (like malatium Mistings and so on).
But the number of lerasium alloys now goes up to 33 (16 base + atium + 16 atium alloys).
So now also atium should have alloys with lerasium alloys, and also lerasium itself (lets wave it away with lerasium alloy of atium being 70% lerasium and 30% atium (allomantically making a Seer) and atium alloy of lerasium being 70% atium and 30% lerasium). So now atium also has 33 alloys.

We don't want to explode our heads, so no lerasium alloys of atium alloys of lerasium-something alloys and vice versa.

We need WoB on existence of atium-alloys Mistings and if lerasium alloy of atium creates a Seer and also if there are lerasium alloys of atium alloys.


Second (Statement): Atium not universally burnable
I want to deal a blow to the theory that atium can be burned by anybody/any Allomancer. TLR has been experimenting for 1000 years and Yomen confirmed existence of system of finding Seers (which implies that if there was an overlap of Mistings and atium Mistings, somebody would notice this), so there would be no need to spike Mistborns for allomantic atium. Hell, Ruin would also know that.
I am not sure about atium alloys, maybe Mistings can burn god-alloys of their metal? So Coinshots can burn atium-steel maybe? Very unlikely, but can't rule that out.

Third (Theory): On Atium and its alloys
It fits too well with malatium and gold and electrum. But this could be linked to the 'switching' Preservation did with cadmium and bendalloy.
I am not sure I agree with this whole "atium being of Ruin makes perfect killing machines of Allomancers". Because it does nothing like this to Feruchemists and it's almost useless to them. I'd rather say it's connected with temporal effects - allomantically lets you look into the future, feruchemically store age, Hemalurgically... well, I go with it being supermetal in its own system, so there is an exception.

What atium alloys do Hemalurgically? I have two theories:

  • It lets you steal what the not-alloyed metal steals, but better. Remember, lerasium alloys take its application (lets you burn everything) and split it to match the metal its alloyed with. So atium-steel steals what steel steals, but better.
  • Second theory is connected with something I have seen around here. It states that allomantically atium switches one of the traits of given metal (external -> internal, Pushing->Pulling etc). Like it does with gold.
    So Hemalurgically it would steal what not-alloyed metal can steal, but the charge gets changed. So atium-steel could steal allomantic tin from a Thug. Or allomantic iron from a Coinshot.

I like the first one more.

Fourth (Question/Theory): On Feruchemy and harmonium
What god metals and their alloys do in Feruchemy? (apart from atium, obviously. Or maybe there is some misconception about feruchemical atium and storing age is just part of its traits. Extremely unlikely)

I assume that harmonium is it's own metal and not lerasium-atium alloy. More like a nuclear fusion of atium and lerasium.
With god metals being jokers in their respective systems, I propose harmonium being a perfect, universal metalmind. Also creates a Feruchemist.
It's alloys could be a perfect container, working like not-alloyed container. So harmonium-steel is perfect container for speed.

No idea about allomantic and hemalurgical harmonium.

But things get weird again with alloys - there are probably alloys with base metals, but we encounter the same problem as in First:double godmetal alloys - harmonium alloys of god metals and god metals' alloys. I'm leaning more and more towards no double godmetal alloys. I guess I will go with 'no-triple-godmetal-alloys' rule.

Also, it's really hard to figure out what any given metal does in Feruchemy, since Feruchemy doesn't obey the classification of external/internal Pushing/Pulling.

Fifth (Theory) : Number of metals

  • 16 base
  • lerasium: pure + 16 alloys + atium alloy + 16 base atium alloys + harmonium alloy + 16 base harmonium alloys
  • atium: pure + 16 alloys + lerasium alloy + 16 base lerasium alloys + harmonium alloy + 16 base harmonium alloys
  • harmonium: pure + 16 alloys + atium alloy + 16 base atium alloys + lerasium alloy + 16 base lerasium alloys

= 67 metals.
= 169 metals.

Godmetals have way more alloys than sixteen.

Also, is it confirmed that Mistborn can burn all the metals?

Sixth (Question/Theory) : Godmetals

I'd really like to know what is the bronze pulse of lerasium and atium and their alloys. Would help a lot.
Maybe lerasium and atium belong in a bigger system? Like, what if all Shards were on Scadrial? Then we would get a Shardmetal system. With 16 godmetals, then maybe they would be properly categorized?
Also, we would get something like tanavastium and its alloys... 17*16 godmetals and their alloys + base 16. 288 metals. (Pure wildguessing) If I'm right and we can have alloys with more than one god metal in it, then the number of all combinations skyrockets. Too lazy to count them, but with only 16 base, one god metal alloys and two god metal alloys we're reaching 4128 possible metals and the more god metals, the worse it gets (exponentionally, or even faster). It's all assuming that there is a difference between (one_god_metal)-(second_god_metal) alloy and (second_god_metal)-(one_god_metal). If they are the same, the number drops a little but the order of magnitude remains unchanged.

Also, I suspect lerasium lets you store Allomancy and its alloys respective metal Allomancy.

Summary: There it goes.
Questions are what are really questions we need to ask oursleves, Theory is what I invented and Statement is what I very strongly believe with some backing from the books.
Your thoughts? Anybody wants a cookie?

Edited by Oversleep
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I_am_NOT_fire

I_am_NOT_fire

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Phew, that was really long, but it is also a very interesting theory. I'm just going to think on this, because, wow, I don't know if I'm suited to lay judgment on something like this. It's an amazing theory in general, and welcome to the theormuchists, please pick up your coppermind at the door.

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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I updated the main post with the WoB I found about god metal alloys.

 

Phew, that was really long, but it is also a very interesting theory. I'm just going to think on this, because, wow, I don't know if I'm suited to lay judgment on something like this. It's an amazing theory in general, and welcome to the theormuchists, please pick up your coppermind at the door.

Thanks! Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
Do I have to sign something? Can I get two copperminds? Do you want a cookie?

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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If it's cookies you are looking for, we from the Dark Alley have absolutely wonderful fresh spikes cookies for you if you'll just follow us...

I thought more like joining Dark Alley, since I already got somebody to accept my spike cookie.

Any thoughts on my theory?

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Stormgate

Stormgate

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On the subject of atium alloys:

In anWoB I found, someone asked if Demoux, an Atium Misting, could burn malatium. Sanderson said something to the effect of that's an interesting theory. I believe that Atium Mistings can burn all alloys of atium, and Sanderson will simply reveal this in later books.

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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On the subject of atium alloys:

In anWoB I found, someone asked if Demoux, an Atium Misting, could burn malatium. Sanderson said something to the effect of that's an interesting theory. I believe that Atium Mistings can burn all alloys of atium, and Sanderson will simply reveal this in later books.

 

Nice, if that turns out to be true it can back my claim to Mistings being able to burn their metals' godmetal alloys.

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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Well, I have to say, you have successfully confused the living hell out of me. Im gonna have to go over this a lot before I even begin to grasp it. Just to be clear, I dont think its your fault that Im confused. Already had a bit of difficulty understanding alloys and how they combine and what they do.

Um... Thanks? I was aiming to make people to have something to think about instead of producing another theory.

But PM me if my wording was unclear somewhere or something wasn't explained enough.

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Stormgate

Stormgate

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Well, I have to say, you have successfully confused the living hell out of me. Im gonna have to go over this a lot before I even begin to grasp it. Just to be clear, I dont think its your fault that Im confused. Already had a bit of difficulty understanding alloys and how they combine and what they do.

The pure metal pulls, and the alloy pushes. The metal the base metal is alloyed with doesn't effect the power in the way that addition does (bronze is an alloy of copper and zinc, but you don't get the powers of a Smoker and a Rioter. If you are confused about how burning metal brings investiture, read Elantris. The Aons they draw work in a similar way, but the metal is internal.

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Landis963

Landis963

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Well, I have to say, you have successfully confused the living hell out of me. Im gonna have to go over this a lot before I even begin to grasp it. Just to be clear, I dont think its your fault that Im confused. Already had a bit of difficulty understanding alloys and how they combine and what they do.

 

Think of it as Keys and Keyholes.  Each Allomancer has one of 16 locked doors (or I guess one of 16 sets of doors, given that info?) inside them.  Each metal (or I guess each metal and its godmetal alloys?) is the key opens its specific Allomancer's door, and they can open it up a crack to access the power at a normal rate, or they can swing it wide open to "flare" the power.  Mistborn, of course, have access to all the doors.  The metal, however, breaks down at a specific rate related to how open the door is, and as soon as it breaks down completely, the door shuts.  

 

EDIT: As for metals, it's like making an alteration to a key that allows you to open a specific door - but that alteration prevents you from using it to open the first door.  The key metaphor breaks down a bit when discussing the relationship between base metals and their base alloys.  

Edited by Landis963
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Kaymyth

Kaymyth

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Think of it as Keys and Keyholes.  Each Allomancer has one of 16 locked doors (or I guess one of 16 sets of doors, given that info?) inside them.  Each metal (or I guess each metal and its godmetal alloys?) is the key opens its specific Allomancer's door, and they can open it up a crack to access the power at a normal rate, or they can swing it wide open to "flare" the power.  Mistborn, of course, have access to all the doors.  The metal, however, breaks down at a specific rate related to how open the door is, and as soon as it breaks down completely, the door shuts.  

 

EDIT: As for metals, it's like making an alteration to a key that allows you to open a specific door - but that alteration prevents you from using it to open the first door.  The key metaphor breaks down a bit when discussing the relationship between base metals and their base alloys.  

 

Right...so then base metals that are impure, or alloys whose mixes are a little off, would be keys with burrs on them or teeth that aren't quite in the right place.  They'll open the door, but it takes some wiggling and it might damage the lock Allomancer in the process.

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Landis963

Landis963

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Right...so then base metals that are impure, or alloys whose mixes are a little off, would be keys with burrs on them or teeth that aren't quite in the right place.  They'll open the door, but it takes some wiggling and it might damage the lock Allomancer in the process.

 

Hey, It's more forgiving than AonDor is.  

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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Hey, It's more forgiving than AonDor is.  

It is? Wouldn't most of the Aon just not work if drawn wrong?

Oh, I remember something about misdrawn healing Aon. On the other hand, Allomancers may even kill themselves why burning bad alloys.

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natc

natc

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At least unlike AonDor, you can't actually channel the power incorrectly and produce unfortunate results like the failed healing, at most it just kills you (and you have to be way off on your metal to die from it. The healing failure, as I recall, happened from just one missing line).

With allomancy, it either works, sorta works with side effects, or doesn't work at all and kills you. With AonDor, "doesn't work" is perfectly safe while "kinda channeling right" (far more likely if you have a lot of experience and just made an absentminded slip up) is potential disaster. You can only do it completely right or completely wrong without making things worse.

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Oversleep

Oversleep

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With AonDor, "doesn't work" is perfectly safe while "kinda channeling right" (far more likely if you have a lot of experience and just made an absentminded slip up) is potential disaster. You can only do it completely right or completely wrong without making things worse.

Oh,Almighty. AonDor is really much more like programming than I thought.

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DrakeMarshall

DrakeMarshall

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This is an impressive theory. It is correct to say that the permutations of god metals are... problematic. So long as a maximum depth for permutations (in the case of most of your calculations, 2 god metals max per alloy) is established, it fits what Sanderson has so far said.

 

Yes, AonDor can encounter logic errors, basically a magical programming language which is great :) 

At least it doesn't have buffer overflows... Or does it? :P

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