speculation The Puppetmaster?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Okay to preference this, I do not want this to be true.  I wish I could just set it aside and forget it but I just can't.
 
A while back we learned that "something" was influencing Miles in Alloy of Law:
 

Question

Miles Hundredlives, is he possessed by a svrakiss from Elantris?

Brandon Sanderson

*long pause* That's a RAFO, you are onto something... I wouldn't say possessed, but influenced by something is definitely a possibility. You are not 100% on.

 

(source)

 

In the preview chapters of Shadows so far we've also seen people acting strangely.  Idashwy killing a Winsting, the guard opening fire on the Governer.

 

What do these have in common?  They are all in opposition to a corrupt, largely Noble government.  Does that sound familiar to anyone else?  Because to me that sounds an awful lot like Kelsier.  A clinical psychopath, who loves killing, especially Nobles and worked to bring down the Final Empire and Noble rule.

 

This even ties back into the Miles question, a svrakiss is kind of a half-demon/half spirit of the dead, and what is Kelsier?  A Cognitive shadow, a dead guy who is sticking around in the three realms instead of passing into the final beyond.

 

The how of this all is something I really don't know, and I'm kind of scared to go down that rabbit hole.

 

Again I do not want this to be true, I really hope that Shadows/Bands prove me wrong, but I just had to write this up.

[Slater he/him]

If it is him it's funny to imagine Harmony getting really tired of Kelsier's crap by now.

 

Harmony: What the hell man? You started killing Nobles again? When I specifically asked you not to?

Kelsier: I'm sorry my hand just slipped.....forty times........in twenty seconds...

Harmony: Your a ghost!! You don't have hands!!

Edited September 29, 2015 by Slater

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

I don't think Idashwy killed WInsting. someone killed her, took her power, then killed winsting. But yeah I could see Kelsier doing all this stuff.

[natc]

Half the point of AoL was basically the exact same conflict as TFE from the opposite perspective (and a different side winning) so yeah, Kelsier is the type.

Miles' goldminds pierced his skin yes? And he seemed to have one hidden inside him left during his execution. Might be in an organ.

[Kaymyth she/her]

This is...plausible.  I agree, it's full of dislike, but it does fit with Kelsier's character.  It also might be that floating around as a ghost for 300 years has unhinged him even more than he was already.

 

I don't think Idashwy killed WInsting. someone killed her, took her power, then killed winsting. But yeah I could see Kelsier doing all this stuff.

 

Well, someone matching her description was in the Prologue at the soiree.  I'm actually leaning to the notion that she did indeed kill Winsting, and someone killed her for her power afterwards.  Maybe she attracted someone's attention.  Maybe someone wanted those nobles out of the way, and wanted to take her out of the equation lest she have a crisis of conscience and decide to turn herself in.

[WayneSpren he/him]

I don't think Idashwy killed WInsting. someone killed her, took her power, then killed winsting. But yeah I could see Kelsier doing all this stuff.

In chapter 6 of SoS it is revealed her powers were stolen hemalurgically.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

I know that. that's why I think it wasn't her. I thought it was the bodyguard dude.

[Moogle]

I know that. that's why I think it wasn't her. I thought it was the bodyguard dude.

 

But a woman matching her description appears at the party, and her body wasn't devoured (it also seems like she was freshly killed after the party, when her metalminds were all tapped - taking on a Steelrunner when they have all their metalminds full seems like a stupid idea), so it doesn't seem like a kandra in her body. It definitely definitely seems like her.

 

---

 

@General thread topic:

 

I can definitely see it as Kelsier. We came to the same conclusion. It's hard to say how Kelsier is doing it all - what does a Cognitive Shadow do? Can it influence someone like Ruin? I brought up the idea of Kelsier as holding a Splinter of Ruin, but it still doesn't feel right. We're in the dark.

[Zathoth]

Brandon has said that Kelsier could be the villain of another story and thats why he finds him an interesting character, so this theory is very possible.

[Kaymyth she/her]

@General thread topic:

 

I can definitely see it as Kelsier. We came to the same conclusion. It's hard to say how Kelsier is doing it all - what does a Cognitive Shadow do? Can it influence someone like Ruin? I brought up the idea of Kelsier as holding a Splinter of Ruin, but it still doesn't feel right. We're in the dark.

 

Augh!  Callback to the part in Alloy of Law where Wax considers that in another time and place, Miles would have been a hero.  Like Kelsier was a hero back in FE, but might be the big bad today.

 

The clues were right there in front of us the whole time.

[alylime]

Presumably Kelsier is hanging out in limbo to complete unfinished business. Perhaps he really really wanted to complete the Atium heist. We know Sazed is doing something with the extra bits of Ruin to keep his shards in balance, so maybe upon learning the true nature of Atium, Kelsier decided his rest would be incomplete until he laid his hands upon the Ruin stash. We know he was able to grab the power of Preservation to keep it in check before Vin drew in the mist, so taking up the extra bits of Ruin is quite plausible.

 

And once he took up the power, he could suddenly whisper into the ears of all spiked individuals...so he figured he might as well overthrow the corrupted nobles. His last attempt to overthrow the Lord Ruler didn't quite go as planned, but here is another chance to do so. Basically, he's avoiding the great beyond until he takes a second stab at all of his goals from Final Empire!

Edited September 29, 2015 by alylime

[Tellingdwar he/him]

Came here to post this exact theory. Brought to mind this WoB:

 

rags

How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power...

(source)

 

It could be that Harmony let someone he trusted take up the excess power of Ruin, and after 300 years of feeling the Intent of the Shard (Splinter?) and seeing a corrupt upper class, that someone is getting a little uppity.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Tellingdwar

[Blaze1616 he/him]

Came here to post this exact theory. Brought to mind this WoB:

 

(source)

 

It could be that Harmony let someone he trusted take up the excess power of Ruin, and after 300 years of feeling the Intent of the Shard (Splinter?) and seeing a corrupt upper class, that someone is getting a little uppity.

 

But that would mean that the big bad would be just another Ruin, albeit less powerful? That seems too cheap for Brandon, in my mind.

[Michael Portz he/him]

No matter WHAT was created, Harmony had a hand in it! Sazed would never have just created a Ruin-Baby 2.0.

 

But that would mean that the big bad would be just another Ruin, albeit less powerful? That seems too cheap for Brandon, in my mind.

[Tellingdwar he/him]

But that would mean that the big bad would be just another Ruin, albeit less powerful? That seems too cheap for Brandon, in my mind.

Oh I agree. Given my track record for predicting Brandon, I'm probably either totally wrong or this is only a footnote to the bigger issues.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I don't think Idashwy killed WInsting. someone killed her, took her power, then killed winsting. But yeah I could see Kelsier doing all this stuff.

 

As several people have pointed out, a woman matching her description was there that night.  Regardless of that however, something hinky was definitely going on with her what with her being "visited" by her dead brother.  I'm willing to bet that that is involved with all of this, especially since the guard who shoots at the Governor was also whispering to someone/something.

 

But a woman matching her description appears at the party, and her body wasn't devoured (it also seems like she was freshly killed after the party, when her metalminds were all tapped - taking on a Steelrunner when they have all their metalminds full seems like a stupid idea), so it doesn't seem like a kandra in her body. It definitely definitely seems like her.

 

---

 

@General thread topic:

 

I can definitely see it as Kelsier. We came to the same conclusion. It's hard to say how Kelsier is doing it all - what does a Cognitive Shadow do? Can it influence someone like Ruin? I brought up the idea of Kelsier as holding a Splinter of Ruin, but it still doesn't feel right. We're in the dark.

 

Eh, hehe.  I think somehow I completely missed your post in that thread, which is incredibly shameful since I was the next poster...  I think I was maybe distracted by the thing I wanted to respond to in Argent's post?

 

Brandon has said that Kelsier could be the villain of another story and thats why he finds him an interesting character, so this theory is very possible.

 

Yeah that was another thing running through my mind as I thought of all this.

 

Came here to post this exact theory. Brought to mind this WoB:

 

(source)

 

It could be that Harmony let someone he trusted take up the excess power of Ruin, and after 300 years of feeling the Intent of the Shard (Splinter?) and seeing a corrupt upper class, that someone is getting a little uppity.

 

I really hope that Sazed didn't just give a Splinter of Ruin to Kelsier, 'cause in my opinion that would just be a phenomenally stupid decision on Sazed's part.  Sure, let's give the fragment of the power that wants to destroy everything to a guy that loves killing people. 

[Argent he/him]

Oh, Rusts... It kind of fits. Or, rather, it could fit. I want to think that Kelsier changed towards the end, especially with him saving Elend and presumably keeping an eye on how things developed after his own demise, but I'll be willing to buy the argument that it wasn't enough to change him. 

 

I will owe some of you a big hat tip of Kelsier ends up behind all this. I don't think he will, but I am far from convinced. It's far too possible for me to just discard.

[Windrunner he/him]

This is honestly a really interesting theory. I would not be at all disappointed if it ended up being true. I am, however, hesitant to believe it fully. Here's my thought process.

 

At the end of Alloy, Marsh gives Wax the book on Hemalurgy that Spook wrote, because (I paraphrase) Wax, "does [his] brother's work." The takeaway there being that Marsh thinks that Wax acts as Kelsier would have. However, this book is certain to prove instrumental in the upcoming conflict, whatever it may be. Hemalurgy is definitely involved. If Kelsier is behind this whole situation, Marsh just gave his enemy a huge helping hand. In what universe is Wax doing Kel's work if Wax is going to be fighting against Kel?

 

My only potential way around this is that Marsh meant that Wax acts as Kelsier would have long ago, when he was human, and now for whatever reason, Kelsier is different. That feels kind of like a cop-out to me. So, I don't really know what to believe.

[SweetLift she/her]

It just seems like it would follow the same plot, but the other side of the coin. So would we end up with Ruin winning? It is not a bad theory, but IMO it does not make for a great story (at a high level). I love Wax and Wayne and will read until the bitter end, but it would disappoint me if Kel is now Ruin's mini-me. I still have a lot of WoB to read before I can come to any sort of conclusion myself. I still think there is something new that we have not yet seen. 

[Moogle]

Found a bit of evidence in AoL, where Miles speaks with Mister Suit:

“You’re careful,” Mister Suit continued. “You have a goal, you believe in it, but you don’t let it cloud your vision. In fact, your cause is not so different from that of my associates and me. I think it is a worthy goal, and you a worthy leader.”

 

Miles' goal is to overthrow the corrupt elite who enforce their own laws. If what Suit says here is true, and they too are against corrupt nobles... that fits Kelsier very very well.

[alylime]

Mr. Suit is also trying to manipulate both Miles and Wax, so it isn't always clear what his own beliefs are. At the end of AoL is this exchange:

 

"You are of a noble bloodline," Ladrian said. "Directly back to the Counselor of the Gods himself. You are Twinborn, and a powerful Allomancer. It was with great regret that I ordered your death, and I only did so under pressure from my colleagues. I suspected, even hoped, that you would survive. The world needs you. Us."

 

"You sound like Miles," Waxillium said, surprised.

 

"No," Ladrian said. "He sounded like me." He tucked his handkerchief into his collar, then began to dine. "But you are not ready. I will see that you are sent the proper information."

 

 

I find this exchange interesting because:

• like Miles, he emphasizes the twinborn/allomancy as a reason for Wax's superiority
• opposite to Miles, he also cites his noble bloodline and descent as a reason for superiority
• he claims to be the influence behind Miles' beliefs
• he implies a plan to deliver information to Wax...shortly before Wax receives the book from Marsh. The book is written with Marasi's passage intermixed with the Wax/Ladrian conversation, but I'm not 100% convinced that forms a reliable timeline. Thoughts?

[Zas678 he/him]

I personally don't think Kelsier is behind the Hemalurgy. I think Marsh is in contact with his brother, (he does have a bajillion spikes and Brandon says that makes it easier to talk to someone in limbo), and I don't think a Ruin!Kelsier would give the greatest opponent to his work the key to breaking it down.

 

Unless....

 

It depends on how much there is of Ruin in Ruin!Kelsier. He could go for an all out war against Suit and Wax, and helping out both with Hemalurgy makes the fight more bloody and would give Ruin more control. That would mean that Kelsier is really really far gone though. To throw away the title of the Survivor and to start inciting a war for war itself. 

 

I really hope it's not true. It could be, but I hope it's not. 

 

Yet someone's got to be showing hemalurgical tricks, which means either Ruin or someone who was around while Inquisitors were being made, which either means Marsh, or an evil Inquisitor trained Kandra. Ooooh, that'd be scary. But in that case, why wait 300 years? 

 

Who knows. We'll find out in a day or so!

[Kaymyth she/her]

For the record, I don't think it's necessary for Kelsier to be carrying a piece of Ruin for this theory to be true.  It's too much in line with his past actions.  He sees the nobility getting corrupt and the common folk suffering for it...yeah, he's going to take action.  At this point, I'm honestly going to be surprised if it isn't Kell.

 

Who knows. We'll find out in a day or so!

 

Or not.  There's no guarantee that the Big Bad will be revealed in this book.  There are, after all, two more after it!

[Argent he/him]

Or not.  There's no guarantee that the Big Bad will be revealed in this book.  There are, after all, two more after it!

 

Or it might be. Or Brandon could pull a double whammy on us - reveal the Big Bad in Shadows of Self, reveal that the real Big Bad is somebody else in Bands of Mourning, and then reveal (in The Lost Metal) that the original Big Bad is the actual Big Bad, manipulating us to think that the Bands Big Bad is the real Big Bad.

 

The next logical step is a triple whammy in the Era 3 series.

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald he/him]

Although never explicitly stated in SoS, the rest of book left a TON of hints that this could be a future reveal.

 

Wax's uncle literally invokes Kel as justification for his actions, saying that Kel would've approved, and TenSoon has a bit about Kel's darker nature.

 

I think there's a good chance that this theory (or some version of it) will come to fruition down the road.