Question and Answer

[Moogle]

Another question: How does time work in the Cognitive Realm? Elsecallers and Lightweavers must travel to/appear in Shadesmar to soulcast, and this seems to take no Physical realm time at all. However, when Jasnah escapes the assassins in WoR she doesn't reappear until the end of the book.

 

While there do seem to be some funky effects with time, you don't need to fully hop on over to Shadesmar to Soulcast, as far as we know. You sort of already exist there, anyways. It's not like these are separate planes of existence, per se, but more like you can view the world through three lenses. (This is complicated by the part where you can physically completely go there, but nobody in WoK and WoR does this on-screen as far as I know, they just go there "in their minds" and Physically they're just staring there blankly.)

 

There's a bit on how this works in SA3, if you want to read the sample chapters.

 

And another question (sorry): How does a person's body appear in Shadesmar? We've seen the floating lights representing the soul, but does the body appear as a bead, and if so, what would its "personality" be? I'd imagine it wouldn't want to transform, but we've already seen that it can be convinced.

 

You probably wouldn't have three separate bits of you represented in Shadesmar, so I think if flames represent living things, they aren't going to have beads. Flames would represent all the parts of you. This is speculation on my part, but again I'd recommend reading the sample chapter in SA3.

[thecatinthehat]

Didn't one of Taravangian's chapters imply that the Thrill was caused by one of the Unmade?

You can be right. But aren't the Unmade serving Odium?

[The Great and Powerful Og]

You can be right. But aren't the Unmade serving Odium?

 

AFAIK, yes, I'm just over-clarifying. 

[thecatinthehat]

Ok. After all, these are nothing more but conjectures.

[kaladamSB he/him]

Does a Type IV awakening bring the cognitive entity of said object more into the physical? Simmilar to how the nahel bond grants spren intelligence on Roshar?

[skaa he/him]

Does a Type IV awakening bring the cognitive entity of said object more into the physical? Simmilar to how the nahel bond grants spren intelligence on Roshar?

It's a good guess, but I don't think we know enough to answer that yet. I think it's a great question to ask Brandon, though!

Alright, I have a question: Other than TLR, have we seen anyone using a Hemalurgic spike for Feruchemical storage? Do the Inquisitors that have Feruchemy use such "metalmind spikes"? Or do they use the more traditional bracers/rings? (Edit: I suppose earrings can be Hemalurgic spikes.) Unfortunately I don't have the books with me right now, so I'd be grateful to anyone who could quote relevant passages here for me. Thanks!

Edited January 8, 2015 by skaa

[Kurkistan he/him]

I don't have my books on hand just now either, but IIIRC it's a pretty firm "yes" on Inquisitors using their spikes as metalminds.

I may be wrong on that recollection, though. At the least, they could.

Source:

17th Shard: Would [inquisitors] be able to tap?

Brandon: Would they tap [spikes]? They can use [hemalurgic spikes] as metalminds, yes.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Kurkistan

[entropicscholar he/him]

Allomantic Gold:

First, I'd like some clarification of the known effects of this metal. The book (The Final Empire) describes that gold has several simutanious effects, and I'd just like to know that my observations are accurate.

 

While burning Gold, a 'shadow self' appears in front of you.

This image is not tangible, and may be seen, heard and felt only by the allomancer whose shadow it is.

The Shadow is a representation of a different version of yourself, if you had taken some different decision in your past, and shows how that changed decision would have influenced your life from that time forward.

While the Shadow Self Persists, the allomancer may gains the memories of, and emotional outlook of the version of their self that they have summoned, as well as retaining their current memories, and outlook.

The allomancer may see through their own eyes, as well as the eyes of the shadow self. This is mildly disorienting, but is also true of all of the other senses as well.

The Mistborn Adventure Game suggests that an Auger (gold misting) can choose a single decision in their past, and see how things would play out if the decision had been made in a specific different way, determined at the time the Auger begins Burning Gold.

If a specific event is not selected, the novel suggests that the decision selected defaults to the most obviously pivotal event which has taken place in their life thus far.

 

Before moving any further, are each of the above true? Or false? On an individual basis.

 

Next, some questions we may or may not be able to answer yet:

1.Can the Auger control the actions of the Shadow Self, while it persists? Can they suggest a course of action to that self, and receive a response other than thought. (getting the shadow to look around the room for you, etc)

 

2.Can the auger physically interact with the Shadow Self, or is the interaction entirely illusionary.

 

3.If the Auger is Twinborn... I assume they cannot tap the metalminds of their shadow?

Edited January 10, 2015 by entropicscholar

[Oudeis he/him]

Vin does physically touch, and believes she feels, her gold-shadow.

[Moogle]

The idea of seeing an "alternate past" is nothing special - The Emperor's Soul's magic system is founded on this premise. I would say that our current idea of what gold does (views how things could have turned out had something been different in your past) is most likely correct based on that. Why Vin can touch her own gold shadow and not a malatium one is still a fascinating question, and whether or not using gold can actually change you to be your shadow (like an instinctive version of Forgery) is still up in the air.

[Iredomi]

Okay this is probably a really dumb question and it shows I really need to give Mistborn a reread, but why did the Lord Ruler move Scadrial again?

[Moogle]

Okay this is probably a really dumb question and it shows I really need to give Mistborn a reread, but why did the Lord Ruler move Scadrial again?

 

The Mists were covering the world, choking out plant life (called "the Deepness") because of Ruin. TLR moved the planet closer to the sun to stop the mists from doing that.

[Dunkum he/him]

The Mists were covering the world, choking out plant life (called "the Deepness") because of Ruin. TLR moved the planet closer to the sun to stop the mists from doing that.

specifically to burn the mists away, like how fog will tend to burn away as the sun comes out and the day gets hotter.

[entropicscholar he/him]

The idea of seeing an "alternate past" is nothing special - The Emperor's Soul's magic system is founded on this premise. I would say that our current idea of what gold does (views how things could have turned out had something been different in your past) is most likely correct based on that. Why Vin can touch her own gold shadow and not a malatium one is still a fascinating question, and whether or not using gold can actually change you to be your shadow (like an instinctive version of Forgery) is still up in the air.

I've wondered about what a gold misting/aluminium ferring or gold misting/copper ferring could do. I think it might be a bit like self-forgery.

 

Still, that's just speculation.

I was more facinated by the idea of whether the gold shadow is actually a being with its own will. What if you really hated the alternative version of yourself? punched them in the face? would they hit you back? would they mirror your actions without thought? would the impact actually hurt you? leave a bruise?

or is it all just an illusion?

[Oudeis he/him]

Miles commented that his two sides hated each other; if violence was an option, I can't think of a reason they wouldn't have chosen it.

[Pestis the Spider she/her]

I understand that sentient life (I mean people, really) on each of the Shardworlds was created independently, am I right? Scadrial people were creted by Ruin and Preservation, but for example Roshar people were creted by something else, right?

 

So how did it happen that all people of all planets are so similar that some people can worldhop and blend into society of a different planet without any serious problems? I know that some of the worldhoppers are able to change their appearance, but I think not all of them, or am I wrong?

[Moogle]

I understand that sentient life (I mean people, really) on each of the Shardworlds was created independently, am I right? Scadrial people were creted by Ruin and Preservation, but for example Roshar people were creted by something else, right?

 

So how did it happen that all people of all planets are so similar that some people can worldhop and blend into society of a different planet without any serious problems? I know that some of the worldhoppers are able to change their appearance, but I think not all of them, or am I wrong?

 

The one thing we do know for sure is that worldhoppers have access to a reverse Babel fish of some sort:

Q: So in Words of Radiance you’ve got a character named Wit [Yes], who has a conversation with Kaladin in which he uses the phrase “bunny rabbit” which obviously doesn’t exist in the language that Kaladin exists.  So my question is where and when did the language he used come from?

 

A: So Hoid, or Wit, is actually using magical means to communicate and so when he says a word it just transliterates it or just doesn’t translate it into anything in that language.  So you’ll notice him slipping up on a number of occasions, because he is the only one who uses certain words in the course of-- That’s not the only one in The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, because he’s just speaking normally and allowing his other means to translate for him.  And that’s a sign, a symbol, of that happening.

(source)

 

This handles his accent, too, since no character describes Hoid as having an accent. So at that point, it's just fitting in behavior-wise... which Hoid does not. That might be part of why he tries to get into the position of court fool/jester everywhere he goes.

[Pestis the Spider she/her]

 

The one thing we do know for sure is that worldhoppers have access to a reverse Babel fish of some sort:

 

This handles his accent, too, since no character describes Hoid as having an accent. So at that point, it's just fitting in behavior-wise... which Hoid does not. That might be part of why he tries to get into the position of court fool/jester everywhere he goes.

I meant similar appearance of worldhoppers, not similar behavior/way of speaking/language problems etc. Sorry, I didn't specify it correctly. 

 

What I mean is that basicly on each planet we have completely different species of 'people'. And they live and were created on different planets and creted by different forces, so I would guess the difference between all of them should be far (really far) greater than the difference between humans and sunflowers. Yet they all look really alike to the extent that they can easily pretend to be of a different shardworld, and basically they all look really humanoid. Why?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Pestis the Spider

[Moogle]

I meant similar appearance of worldhoppers, not similar behavior/way of speaking/language problems etc. Sorry, I didn't specify it correctly. 

 

What I mean is that basicly on each planet we have completely different species of 'people'. And they live and were created on different planets and creted by different forces, so I would guess the difference between all of them should be far (really far) greater than the difference between humans and sunflowers. Yet they all look really alike to the extent that they can easily pretend to be of a different shardworld, and basically they all look really humanoid. Why?

 

I apologize, I misinterpreted you horribly. You weren't unclear.

 

It is specifically mentioned that Ruin and Preservation created humans in the form of what they had seen before:

I was surprised when Preservation said he wanted to create you, Ruin said, a bit of curiosity in his voice. Other life is ordered by way of nature. Balanced. But Preservation . . . he wanted to create something intentionally unbalanced. Something that could choose to preserve at times, but to ruin at others. Something in the form of that which we’d seen before. It was intriguing.

 

Not all Shards did this, as far as we know - some humans could have and would have migrated from Yolen. But whenever Shards created humans, it seems very likely that they created them in the form of humans on purpose because of their own sense of aesthetic. (Though, it's very likely there are non-human Shards. Hoid possibly sent a letter to one who was some sort of lizard/dragon. Still, all the Shards we know of who have had their race revealed have been human.) And there are plenty of weird non-humans in the Cosmere - Yolen had three races, for example, there's the Parshendi, etc.

 

If you're asking why they all look really alike and can easily blend in... well, they can't. There are physical differences. From the Purelake interlude:

There were three of them. Two were dark-skinned Makabaki, though they were the strangest Makabaki he’d ever seen. One was thick limbed where most of his kind were small and fine-boned, and he had a completely bald head. The other was taller, with short dark hair, lean muscles, and broad shoulders. In his head, Ishikk called them Grump and Blunt, on account of their personalities. The third man had light tan skin, like an Alethi. He didn’t seem quite right either, though. The eyes were the wrong shape, and his accent was certainly not Alethi. He spoke the Selay language worse than the other two, and usually stayed quiet. He seemed thoughtful, though. Ishikk called him Thinker.

 

This is still not quite getting to your real question - why are all the sentients that we've seen humanoid in the cosmere, with two arms and two legs? The answer to that is that we don't know. As my own speculation, all life in the cosmere arose due to Adonalsium. Adonalsium just had a preference for the humanoid shape. This is kind of lazy thinking (answering "God did it!" or "God wanted it that way!" in any argument doesn't really get to the how or why) but it's pretty much all we've got to work on.

 

(Also, evolutionarily speaking, a lot of shapes of lifeforms are unlikely to arise. I would predict any aliens we find are more likely to have limbs rather than be piles of goop.)

Edited January 12, 2015 by Moogle

[Pestis the Spider she/her]

 

 

There were three of them. Two were dark-skinned Makabaki, though they were the strangest Makabaki he’d ever seen.

I would still call it "really alike". After all he thought they were strange Makabaki, not "aliens" or "scary, ugly monsters", or something like that.  

 

I do not have any problems that they look humanoid, because why not. But I kind of have this feeling that it was strange they all looked really humanoid, and not for example just one species of them.

 

The quote about Ruin and Preservation is really what I was looking for, so thanks! I suspected that maybe all the Shards created sentient life these way, because they somehow remembered it this way from the time before Shattering, but I really didn't know if there is any proof for that. But the quote solves all my problems. So thanks a lot!

 

 

(Also, evolutionarily speaking, a lot of shapes of lifeforms are unlikely to arise. I would predict any aliens we find are more likely to have limbs rather than be piles of goop.)

Yeah, I know. But they could've for example have much longer/shorter limbs, more joints, more limbs, be much higher/shorter, etc.

 

You heleped me a lot, thanks!

[Oudeis he/him]

It does help that Roshar is freakishly diverse. It's easier to blend in there, like how it'd be easier for aliens to blend in to New York City than Raleigh, North Carolina. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT people on Roshar with such drastic racial identifiers that the little imperfections get glossed over. Isshik (that's the purelake guy's name, yes?) may or may not have met Herdazians, whose fingernails are rocks, or Unkalaki, whose teeth let them eat claws and shells, or an Alethi/Iriali hybrid with particolored hair of black mixed with a metallic golden hue. Given all that, "A makabaki but he's kinda tall" isn't gonna scream ALIEN to him.

 

If an Iriali traveled to Scadrial, however... I mean, people made a big deal about how Allriane was blonde. BLONDE. Someone showing up with actual golden skin would absolutely trigger their "alien-dar". I wrote a story about a Final Empire era Mistborn traveling to Halladren once, and I wrote in how he had to explain why he was freakishly short, and why he had such trouble breathing in their non-ash-filled air, and don't get me started on a fruit-rich diet for a man whose digestive tract has been designed to flourish from vegetables grown in ash.

 

So, partially to answer your question, I invite you to look at the context. Roshar is a place where people who look different can get by. We know little about Worldhoppers visiting other worlds, but I assume they'd use hair-dye, eye drops, make-up, perhaps costumes when they don't simply have magic to illusion them. Otherwise, you're right, they'd look different enough that people would be screaming alien.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

So, partially to answer your question, I invite you to look at the context. Roshar is a place where people who look different can get by. We know little about Worldhoppers visiting other worlds, but I assume they'd use hair-dye, eye drops, make-up, perhaps costumes when they don't simply have magic to illusion them. Otherwise, you're right, they'd look different enough that people would be screaming alien.

 

I am going to disagree with you here, though more out of personal opinion than factual evidence. From my understanding, except for the diverse population of Roshar and the altered physiology of Scadrians thanks to TLR (which may have been reversed by Harmony), I've been under the impression that all the sentient Cosmere races we've been exposed to are Earth-style humanoids. Except for potential height differences and eye/hair color differences, I've always thought a non-Elantrian Selish individual could totally pass for a Nalthian. That's why the Terriswoman in Warbreaker has eluded us. I've been of the opinion it is because, when the Shards went about creating life on non-Yolen planets, they merely created life in their image. How humanoid life came to be on Yolen is probably one of the classic means; evolution or creationism. But for Shardic worlds I've always assumed they were that similar.

[Moogle]

The gravity difference is interesting to me - I wonder how a Rosharan would fare on a planet with higher gravity? Someone like Hoid could probably handle by tapping/storing an ironmind, though. (Huh, that's actually pretty useful.)

Edited January 12, 2015 by Moogle

[Pestis the Spider she/her]

 Otherwise, you're right, they'd look different enough that people would be screaming alien.

No they don't. Different enough means for example extra pair of arms. Everything that you can easily cover with make-up and saying "I'm just a weird looking Makabaki" is not different enough to actually scream alien. It's actually really (really) similar. But that's just my personal opinion.

 

 

The gravity difference is interesting to me - I wonder how a Rosharan would fare on a planet with higher gravity? Someone like Hoid could probably handle by tapping/storing an ironmind, though. (Huh, that's actually pretty useful.)

 

Interesting. Was is stated somewhere which of the Cosmere planets that we know of is the biggest or the smallest, etc.? If we knew which planets are smaller than Roshar and which are bigger, we could actually look for the clues about the change in gravity impact on the worldhopper in SA, as we have quite a lot of worldhoppers in SA.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Pestis the Spider

[Oudeis he/him]

Someone like Hoid could probably handle by tapping/storing an ironmind, though. (Huh, that's actually pretty useful.)

 

...How have I never thought of this before? How did Hoid get by in ash-filled Scadrian air? Did he simply constantly tap health and heal? While infinite gold stores would heal the damage caused by inhaling contaminants your body isn't prepared to handle, would it actually prevent you from hacking and coughing constantly? And he even showed up in especially ashful air. Was he maybe wearing a filtration mask under his Lightweaving?

 

This bothers me even more than how he was able to slip into the Terris and IMMEDIATELY become one of their Elders. Which is sorta out of character for him, really, since he seems to avoid positions of real authority.

 

@Blaze and Pestis: Well, like we've all said, this is now a matter of opinion. You understand the gist of what I'm saying, and our contention seems to come from how likely a Scadrian is to find someone with metallic gold hair undismissably atypical. Since we agree on all salient points, I'm not willing to devote more brainpower to deducing the freak-out threshold of the average Scadrian.