We Need A Word For "Feruchemical Flaring"

[Deus Ex Biotica]

The Thread on Feruchemy and Hemalurgy was recently overwhelmed by a tangential issue, which now gets its own thread: when you draw an attribute from a Metalmind at a rate greater than you put it in, the result is measurably different: the normally End-Neutral Art must consume some of its energy in the transfer. This really seems like it should have a specific term to describe it, but when Brandon Sanderson described it in Q&A, he used the word "compounding," which has come to mean something else entirely to us when discussing Feruchemy.

So, the search is on - a word which is to a Feruchemist "tapping" and Flare is to an Allomancer "Burning".

The current two frontrunners are Flood and Funnel. I submitted one of these, but since the first post in a top like this really ought to be neutral, I will recount my reasoning in a separate post tomorrow (or you can go to the other thread and read it there). At some point, this thread will evolve into a Poll*, to determine what will serve as the "convention" until Brandon Sanderson provides us with a term. This will probably happen after 2-4 days of people getting to think of new words, and discuss the merits of words already mentioned.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

* Learning Geo-Slam in the process.

[Aradel]

I propose "Squeezing" . Silly yes, but it fits the bill.

[Inkthinker]

"Sapping"? It has a nice rhyme with "tapping" and it's synonymous with depletion and draining of a resource.

Hell, what's wrong with "tapping"? I'm pretty sure Wax, Wayne and Sazed are all described as "tapping" their metalminds at some point or another (and probably more than once).

But I could see "sapping a metalmind" working just as nicely.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Inkthinker

[Aranfan]

I actually like "Drain" although it has the same problems as Flood.

[Kurkistan]

Just to throw up some of the other front-runners before flood/funnel took over: Synthesize, Condense.

To clarify exactly what we're looking for, I'll quote Deux Ex:

"What we need is _________ : Tap :: Flare : Burn, to use SAT terminology."

[Chaos]

Can I change the thread to "Feruchemical flaring" instead of "burning"? Inkthinker is right--tap corresponds to burning. This would be more specific.

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

So a lesson in making maple syrup, I swear this is relevant. I don't know how many of you have had the experience of tapping maple trees for sap but what comes out of the tree is not the stuff that comes out of the lady shaped bottle. The tree sap has to be put into a boiler and condensed down into some super yummy real maple syrup. Now to tie it all in. To me this sounds like what a feruchemist is doing. The take small bits of them selves and store it away and then condense it into larger amounts. I like condense for this purpose.

Though I feel like the general word could and should be funneling because it can work both ways. Condense for using a large amount of power in a short amount of time. Draw for using a small amount of power over a long period of time. Though I could have just made this whole thing way more complex.

[Arcanist Lupus]

So a lesson in making maple syrup, I swear this is relevant. I don't know how many of you have had the experience of tapping maple trees for sap but what comes out of the tree is not the stuff that comes out of the lady shaped bottle. The tree sap has to be put into a boiler and condensed down into some super yummy real maple syrup. Now to tie it all in. To me this sounds like what a feruchemist is doing. The take small bits of them selves and store it away and then condense it into larger amounts. I like condense for this purpose.

Though I feel like the general word could and should be funneling because it can work both ways. Condense for using a large amount of power in a short amount of time. Draw for using a small amount of power over a long period of time. Though I could have just made this whole thing way more complex.

Except we already have a term for using small amounts of power over a long period of time. The standard is "tapping", and since that's canon, that's probably not going to change.

Also, another idea, similar to "funnel": "channel". (I think I prefer funnel, but I'm throwing it out there anyways)

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ookla the Insatiable

[happyman]

I'm guessing that in practice, the term for "Using Feruchemical attributes faster than you stored them" will be "Tapping an enormous amount of x".

Just saying.

My reasoning is that flaring is a discrete state in Allomancy; either you are not burning, burning, or flaring a metal (or using duralumin). With Feruchemy, you tap at a low, medium or high rate, but there is no transition between these states. It's like trying to come up with a technical word for eating really fast.

[Kurkistan]

I'm guessing that in practice, the term for "Using Feruchemical attributes faster than you stored them" will be "Tapping an enormous amount of x".

Just saying.

My reasoning is that flaring is a discrete state in Allomancy; either you are not burning, burning, or flaring a metal (or using duralumin). With Feruchemy, you tap at a low, medium or high rate, but there is no transition between these states. It's like trying to come up with a technical word for eating really fast.

We want a distinction because of the entropy which is uniquely present when you "over-tap" attributes, as opposed to simply tapping more or less without considering energy loss.

By the Lord Ruler, that should have occurred to me earlier. Why not just "over-tap?"

Also, I would probably use "bolt" for eating really fast.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ookla the Conformist

[happyman]

We want a distinction because of the entropy which is uniquely present when you "over-tap" attributes, as opposed to simply tapping more or less without considering energy loss.

By the Lord Ruler, that should have occurred to me earlier. Why not just "over-tap?"

Also, I would probably use "bolt" for eating really fast.

I would actually use the term "wolf" for eating really fast, but it's not a technical term.

"Over-tap" is probably the best we can do, although I'm not sure it's needed. My point is that it's just another type of tapping. In fact, most of the Feruchemy we see happening, especially in the siege of Luthadel, is "over-tapping." Extreme over-tapping is how Feruchemists pull off most of their useful stunts.

[Arcanist Lupus]

I'm guessing that in practice, the term for "Using Feruchemical attributes faster than you stored them" will be "Tapping an enormous amount of x".

Just saying.

My reasoning is that flaring is a discrete state in Allomancy; either you are not burning, burning, or flaring a metal (or using duralumin). With Feruchemy, you tap at a low, medium or high rate, but there is no transition between these states. It's like trying to come up with a technical word for eating really fast.

I don't think Allomancy is as discrete as we tend to think. Rememeber, it is possible to vary the strength of your push.

I think Allomacy works similar to motors. Allow me to show you a graph of motor characteristics:

.

It might be a little confusing if you haven't seen this kind of graph before, but the important point is that the efficiency curve (pink) reaches it's maximum way before the power curve (green). I think that Allomancy functions similarly. A normal burn operates at max efficiency, but it is possible to push the metal into the higher power range, at the cost of sacrificing efficiency. However, there is a maximum value to the power you can get from the metal. Other levels in between the two peaks can be reached, but with the exception of pushing and pulling and manipulating emotions, there's very little reason to work at any other places on the curve.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Can I change the thread to "Feruchemical flaring" instead of "burning"? Inkthinker is right--tap corresponds to burning. This would be more specific.

Ooof. Yeah, that's what I intended to do in the first place - thanks.

My reasoning is that flaring is a discrete state in Allomancy; either you are not burning, burning, or flaring a metal (or using duralumin). With Feruchemy, you tap at a low, medium or high rate, but there is no transition between these states. It's like trying to come up with a technical word for eating really fast.

Not so! Alloy of Law and The Final Empire both talk about people "flaring" their metals as opposed to having them "at a low burn" to refer to using a lot of a metal very quickly (for example, most Tineyes and Thugs always have low level burning - only the ones who Flare a lot become Savants), and they're clearly not talking about Duralumin. Allomancy and Feruchemy both allow you to use anywhere from a tiny amount to a much larger one of their power (Allomancy has a hard upper threshold, which Feruchemy does not, but there is still a gradient in both cases).

"Tapped a massive amount X" (or "drew heavily on his Xmind," as is also used sometimes) are descriptive, just as one could say that "Wax reacted immediately, burning a larger amount of the steel that burned inside his stomach," but I think that sentence (Alloy Of Law, p.16, all the way at the bottom) parses much better as "flaring the steel".

The list of words:

Channel, Condense, Drain, Flood, Funnel, Over-Tap, Sap, Squeeze, Synthesize

Of these, I think that Over-Tap sounds just as awkward as the wordings I am trying to move away from. Sap and Funnel I both think of first in terms of their meanings as nouns, so they parse oddly to me, though others clearly feel differently. Drain is already in use with regards to Metalminds (when you remove everything from them completely). Condense seems like it should be something regarding the act of filling the Metalminds differently - with syrup or water, "condensing" something is not tapping it but moreso, it's a totally unrelated act.

That leaves Channel, Squeeze, and Flood as the ones I have no specific objection to. Unsurprisingly, I most prefer the one I submitted in the first place, Flood. Here's why:

* Flood always means "a really large amount of something," which is exactly what we want to convey here.

* Flood, like Fill and Tap, is a word that refers to moving a quantity of fluid.

* Flood has a nice symmetry with "Flare," and thus keeps up an overall aesthetic of Allomancy getting fire words, and Feruchemy getting water words.

* I just think Flood sounds cool.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. I would say "scarf" if I wanted a word for eating absurdly fast, but I must admit that it does not pass my "more famous for a noun with a different meaning" test.

[Musicspren]

Flare + Tap = Flap.

E.g.: "Wax flapped his ironmind, causing himself to crash through the floor"

Don't believe me? Remember that

2 + 2 = Pickle.

Then it should make perfect sense.

[lauren.e135]

That leaves Channel, Squeeze, and Flood as the ones I have no specific objection to. Unsurprisingly, I most prefer the one I submitted in the first place, Flood. Here's why:

* Flood always means "a really large amount of something," which is exactly what we want to convey here.

* Flood, like Fill and Tap, is a word that refers to moving a quantity of fluid.

* Flood has a nice symmetry with "Flare," and thus keeps up an overall aesthetic of Allomancy getting fire words, and Feruchemy getting water words.

* I just think Flood sounds cool.

I like the term flood, for the reasons you list as well. My only objection is that saying "he Flooded his metalmind" sounds kind of like he's filling it, not emptying it, to me.

What about Flushed? "He Flushed his metalmind"? Or does that just sound strange?

[Kurkistan]

The list of words:

Channel, Condense, Drain, Flood, Funnel, Over-Tap, Sap, Squeeze, Synthesize

Of these, I think that Over-Tap sounds just as awkward as the wordings I am trying to move away from. Sap and Funnel I both think of first in terms of their meanings as nouns, so they parse oddly to me, though others clearly feel differently. Drain is already in use with regards to Metalminds (when you remove everything from them completely). Condense seems like it should be something regarding the act of filling the Metalminds differently - with syrup or water, "condensing" something is not tapping it but moreso, it's a totally unrelated act.

That leaves Channel, Squeeze, and Flood as the ones I have no specific objection to. Unsurprisingly, I most prefer the one I submitted in the first place, Flood. Here's why:

* Flood always means "a really large amount of something," which is exactly what we want to convey here.

* Flood, like Fill and Tap, is a word that refers to moving a quantity of fluid.

* Flood has a nice symmetry with "Flare," and thus keeps up an overall aesthetic of Allomancy getting fire words, and Feruchemy getting water words.

* I just think Flood sounds cool.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. I would say "scarf" if I wanted a word for eating absurdly fast, but I must admit that it does not pass my "more famous for a noun with a different meaning" test.

In Over-Tap's defense, it isn't quite as awkward as using alternate wording, and does clearly convey what we're talking about.

I think of "condensing" in terms of this post, where you condense multiple points in time when you were storing into a single large tap.

I agree that we ought to maintain the "fluid vs fire" dynamic of Feruchemy and Allomancy, but funnels do generally funnel fluids, so I might be able to squeak by on that one.

I'm beginning to be persuaded back towards Flood, but it still suggests uncontrollability, and complete or near-complete draining of the metalmind.

Just so everyone can see them in a context, I'm going to post sentences using the different words:

"Wax channeled weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax drained weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax over-tapped weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax sapped weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax squeezed weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax synthesized weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax flooded weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax funneled weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax condensed weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"You must remember that channeling Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that draining Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that over-tapping Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that sapping Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that squeezing Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that synthesizing Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that flooding Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that funneling Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"You must remember that condensing Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back"

"He channeled his metalmind"

"He drained his metalmind"

"He over-tapped his metalmind

"He sapped his metalmind"

"He squeezed his metalmind"

"He synthesized his metalmind

"He flooded his metalmind"

"He funneled his metalmind"

"He condensed his metalmind"

I also find Channel, Drain, and Sap to be too similar to Tapping, while Flood and Funnel read nearly identically to me.

EDIT: Threw in another sentence, courtesy of lauren.e135.

I find Flood, Condense, Squeeze, and Synthesize to be in desperate need of a "from" in the last sentence. Funnel is on the edge.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ookla the Conformist

[lauren.e135]

Hmm, I think flooded and sapped convey the idea well. Every time I see drain I think of how it is already used in terms of an already empty metalmind.

I find Flood, Condense, Squeeze, and Synthesize to be in desperate need of a "from" in the last sentence. Funnel is on the edge.

Agreed. It doesnt strongly convey whether or not the metalmind is being filled or emptied.

Thinking out loud: Flushed, Purged, Gushed, Streamed...

"Wax flushed weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax purged weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax gushed weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

"Wax streamed weeks worth of weight to break the floor"

I'm not sure how "fluid" "purged" sounds, but it certainly conveys the feeling of emptying we're going for, I think.

Although listed, I don't really like "streamed." Seems too... weak?

EDIT: Ookla makes a good point in showing them in the different contexts.

I think "flooded weeks worth of weight to break the floor" sounds nice, but "You must remember that flooding Feruchemical attributes costs more energy than you get back" sounds more vague in terms of empty/filling.

So.. we need a word that not only visually conveys a large amount of liquid from one location to another, but specifically that amount of liquid leaving a place. Yes?

Edited December 1, 2011 by lauren.e135

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I think it reads as more clear when you don't say "metalmind," but instead focus on the attribute or the metal "Flooding gold," "Flooding stength," etc. But, yeah, I can see how Flooding sounds like it could be filling.

This makes me think that "Sapped" is better, but it just sounds too similar to "Tapped" - they're only one letter different! I suspect that would cause more confusion than it solves.

Flow? Pour? Dump? Torrent? Cascade?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. And thanks, Conforming Ookla - that list really helps put things in perspective.

[Inkthinker]

Ahhh, I misunderstood. Now I'm on the trolley.

What about "surge"? I kinda like "surge".

"Wax surged a week's worth of weight in a single moment, shattering the floor".

"Wayne surged his goldmind, drawing upon three months spent sickly in bed, to heal the damage in a matter of seconds".

Edited December 1, 2011 by Inkthinker

[Arcanist Lupus]

It should be noted that we don't necessarily need one term. A lot of the words we're looking at are synonyms. If they all describe the action of tapping a metalmind, then we can use them all. Certainly Brandon refers to Wax "drawing [weight] into himself". Allomancy sticks to "burn" because there aren't any synonyms that fit the action an Allomancer takes that work better than burn. But that's not the case with Feruchemy. With Feruchemy, there's a larger pool of verbs we can use that all fit.

I agree that we should agree on some standards, but as long as we all know what we're talking about, I don't see why we couldn't use "flood", "squeeze", "channel", "condense", and "pickle" to refer to accessing metalminds (okay, not the last one). Just as long as they make sense, and are understandable in context. The only one that should definitely be avoided is "compound", because that's already taken.

[Chaos]

Ahhh, I misunderstood. Now I'm on the trolley.

What about "surge"? I kinda like "surge".

"Wax surged a week's worth of weight in a single moment, shattering the floor".

"Wayne surged his goldmind, drawing upon three months spent sickly in bed, to heal the damage in a matter of seconds".

I wasn't on board with most of the suggestions thus far, but I really like surge. It has that same water connotation, feels strong and evocative, while still being descriptive as to what's happening with the metalmind. Strongest contender so far, in my opinion.

[Kurkistan]

I wasn't on board with most of the suggestions thus far, but I really like surge. It has that same water connotation, feels strong and evocative, while still being descriptive as to what's happening with the metalmind. Strongest contender so far, in my opinion.

The only problem I have with it is possible confusion with Surgebinding when users first see it. That's not a big deal, though, and I agree that it's a strong contender.

[Chaos]

The only problem I have with it is possible confusion with Surgebinding when users first see it. That's not a big deal, though, and I agree that it's a strong contender.

That's true. On the other hand though, this would be more of a 17th Shard site convention than anything else. (After all, we use Shardholder and Brandon doesn't like that term. However, it is important for some theorizing.) So considering all the members on here are smart, awesome (and attractive, I'm sure) people, I think they can understand the connotation.

Plus, Surge seems to be capitalized, so that will help with the distinction. It's massively different than saying, "oh, this Compounding is different from compounding attributes, due to capitalization!" haha. So vast improvement, and not much downside.

[CrazyRioter]

I don't really like "Surge", it just rubs me the wrong way for some reason, I prefer Condense, like people were talking about on the other thread, cause you're condensing all the stored attribute into a quick flash of power.

[Aradel]

I'm actually starting to like Sapping. It is similar to tapping, but not in a bad way, I think.