Mistdork

Thinking in portals...that's...a really interesting way to put it...errr...errr...(the image I get here is from Portal 1 and 2; I don't think the metaphor works with that game in mind...now I'm imaging each different way to use investiture or switch it or whatever as a room gotten to with a portal gun...no, nope...nah.) >.>

Seriously though, these are awesome. I'm always amazed with the cool things you guys find out...

"Awakened" Wands. ;D

This sounds more like...tuning forks. You're tuning the fork to a specific Command like a tuning fork is tuned to one note, so, I...I actually think it would be possible, but I'm not sure you would need mental (or if mental would hold it the best), perhaps there's even a fabrial-like device pre-programmed to a specific command that could be created...

So, if this is possible, how much Breath (or Investiture) would it take to created a wand/fork/device tuned to that specific command? How much would you need to..."imprint" it and "save" that command into the mental? Would that take so much Breath/Investiture that the economics (and usefulness) of this would be to high for it to actually be useful or practical? Or am I not being crazy enough...meh, I could always use a little more crazy spunk...

Welcome! So, since you're a philologist, I take it that you find the hints of language in the Stormlight Archive quite interesting, yes?

Welcome to the 17th shard!  And I wouldn't take that cookie... (thought it won't make any sense why not if you haven't read the Mistborn trilogy... just a little inside joke on the forum here).

There are other ways to make a not...quite safe cookie in the cosmere, too, you know...

He's mentioned that the rights have been sold before, but he also gave you guys more information, I believe. One, he didn't explain how Emperor's Soul would look as a movie (or what they were planning). That's cool to know that more's coming out of the deal. It seems that someone's a total Sanderdork at that studio, now.

Source

This is one of my personal sayings, probably because research is one of those things I "do" as a historian...or so they tell us; half of history is research, half is opinion, and half is spinning stories that make some sense. The truth is, of course, that we can't do math to save our lives...that's why we chose history, not science.

Anyway, what I wanted to talk about today is research, and how it applies to creative crafts. Ironically, research for world building or a story has always boggled my mind. While I find conducting research on a topic for a class, a paper, or an article quite easy, I already have a direction for this. It's in my study area (modern U.S. history), it relates to my interests, and I already have a set path to some extent. I know where to find good materials and I also know where to get more materials from if the need arises. As long as it's my area, I'm pretty set.

Yet, whenever I even consider (briefly) worldbuilding or going back and writing a story I pause in fright at the mountainous research required to write a story that wouldn't relate to my...errr..."special interests". Even though I know how to research properly, researching in an unfamiliar area is somewhat frightening. There just seems like so many things and directions to look into. From culinary practices, to how this or that ethnic group's farming techniques in this or that period, to music styles, to their history, to scientific practices/medical practices that were common in that culture (Arabs washed their hands in the middle ages a practice that was deeply influenced by Islamic ritual cleansing), to how does my magic system tie into economics, culture, history, religions, and physics! Such things as that.

The topics for research seem insurmountable. When I do research for some topic (let's say philanthropy in modern America) I need to learn the terms, how it relates to economics, and such things as that, but it never seems this downright crazy. It's narrow and given to me in a nice, neat package even though I probably spend quite a bit of time researching a few philanthropists and what makes them tic (so to speak). Instead of rambling on, I'll offer a list of questions to get the ball rolling (but you don't have to answer them):

• How does one organize the vast numbers of topics into something isn't overwhelming? That list is far from exhaustive, and, while no one is going to really care about what your farming techniques are (unless it's a story about farmers fighting giant shadow monsters from the nether), some of these topics aren't that important. Still, a lot of them are important, which leads me to my next question...
• How does one know when enough is enough and what kind of topics one should really focus on? What parts would you say are the most important? When does "rule of cool" out weight "rule of correct"?
• If you've done this type of research, how have you organized it? Is there a system that you personally use or have seen other use? Say, if one knew that they want to tell a story where the main character is military in a certain period (Enlightenment; that is, 16th to 17th C Prussia, per example) or a "doctor" in Japan in the same time period (Edo period), how would you go about writing that without being overwhelmed (or cultures similar to that)?

In short, I just want to encourage discussion on research and advice on how to do it, I guess...

Don't keep your hopes it...or rather, hope it doesn't ruin the chance of a quality product being made in the future. I feel weary about this news, too...(they were incredibly sneaky in making this thing...)

YES HELLO THIS IS MY THREAD AND QUESTION

I started it for you, silly (because no one else wanted to bring it up, that's why I quoted your question)!

I meant to bring this up like a few months back, but then forgot...anyway, let's talk music! (And speculation brought to you because a tumblr fan asked questions; also because she's made of awesome.)

 

 

theravenchilde: And I was trying to figure out how jazz could possibly develop on Scadrial in Alloy of Law.
B: How what?
Q: How Jazz could develop on Scadrial.
B: Jazz? Okay.
theravenchilde: [audio obscured] Would it be appropriate to compare the Steel Ministry to the Catholic Church? Not so much in doctrine but...
B: Sure, that would be appropriate. I mean when I’m writing Alloy of Law era they are only hitting big band stuff.
theravenchilde: That’s what I figured.
B: Their music would lag behind ours.
theravenchilde: ‘Cause big band stufff started around the 1920’s
B: There not even quite there yet. In the second or the third… anyway one of the Alloy books Wax hears someone and they’ve added to a band brass and he’s like “that’s not right” he’s expecting violin concertos or a pianoforte and he’s hearing brass.

Source

So, I'm a little grumpy about this. I know that jazz (and big band) popping up is awesome, but I'm not interested in the...awesome factor. I'm more interested in the "how", I'm somewhat familiar with the development of jazz (or big band) "proper" in the U.S. and (later Europe; Louis Mitchell and the Jazz Kings went to France and took Paris by storm) specifically in the 1910's and '20's. It's interesting, but deeply linked to African and African American history, the history of the African American church, African American music (and African music), the presence of New Orleans, and the history of slavery in the US; all of which were factors in its development (note that this list is not in depth, nor does it touch on everything). The thing is, jazz didn't just pop up because it's cool, it developed because of a number of historical and cultural factors that were unique to the history of African Americans and US history in general.

What I'm getting at, I guess, is how could/did jazz develop on Scadrial? It doesn't have these factors, the closest thing it has is the skaa and skaa plantations, but unless they have a musical tradition similar to African American work songs and spirituals ("slave songs") we weren't made aware of in the books which is possible, I guess... Did the Steel Ministry influence or did the religious influence come later through the Church of the Survivor? And also, the plantations seem...harsher and even worse than those in the American South; to me, it didn't seem like a place where talking (much less singing, chanting, and music) was even allow (at least while working), but since we didn't see that much of the plantations in the books, it's possible, I guess... 

My point is, I'm not sure how jazz (as we know it) realistically development on Scadrial. I know, "rule of cool" and all, but the presence of big bands and jazz in these books makes me wonder where it came from and its history in Scadrial. I know this is pretty much nitpicking, and I don't expect a full historical explanation, but I would like to know its actual origin.

Basically: how and why did Scadrial develop jazz (also, consider that Elendel and its surrounding territories are like France/Germany/the United Kingdom x the western US)? What are it's origins? Is it related to the history of the skaa, skaa plantations, and the Church of the Survivor and the link that those things might have with music? (It would also explain the slower development, because the religious aspects may have come later, I think). Is it (also) related to cultural developments in the "slums" of Elendel? What factors led to a jazz-like (or big band) music to develop and why?

(Also, I agree that I might be being a bit too nitpicky about this topic, but I've always found the historical and cultural developments almost as interesting as the magic systems. I'm a dork! Also, written when I had caught a nasty cold, so if anything's seems off, that might be why...-.-)

The problem with this is that a SanderCon would be set-up and run by people in the U.S., and as a result holding it anywhere other than the U.S. would involve a larger amount of attendees needing to spend those thousands of dollars/euros/pounds. Or, only Europeans show, and if that's the case, why not just run your own Euro-based SanderCon, rather than making American fans do the traveling. That is the solution that seems to work best, anyways. That being said, as an individual from Michigan, I feel some of your pain. If the Con is held in any of the usual places, I'm spending upwards of $1000 just on travel, and then add on food and shelter. I'm pretty much excluded from any Sanderson related event unless I make specific, long term commitments to go.

Why not have it in Grand Rapids, take over the Van Andel Arena for a day and...*cough*

Anyways, considering there seem to be many people on the East Coast and in the Central US, a more centralized location like Chicago or close to it might be ideal... That is, if such a thing is possible, but I really don't know, planning cons and big events are not really my area of expertise...

So, my thought is, that we could at least fund it somewhat through a kickstarter...or something...perhaps?

You have a lucid dream and decide that, what the heck, I've always wanted to try to be a Mistborn/Windrunner...time to fly!

Official Sandersonerd/Sandernerd for sure. >.>

To be honest, I've always been aware that I'm dreaming (I don't actually use dream signs or anything like that), but my control is usually partial at best. That is, until last night...I always have fantastic elements in my dreams, so, I guess it shouldn't be surprising that when I did the lucid dream thing, I...ah...got on a mistcloak and decided to fly by steel pushing and iron pulling...it really is fun!

Heh heh, I guess the fact that my first full experience doing this I chose to be a Mistborn shows that I am indeed a Sandernerd. >.>

The Nightwatcher/Stormfather makes no sense to me, Cultivation is still alive so she shouldn't have a Cognitive shadow like the Stormfather?

 

My guess would be that Cognitive Shadows are "ghost-like", that not all Cognitive Shadows are the same...whatever that means, or that perhaps, Stormfather existed even before Tanavast was gone, but just as a mega-type of (Honor?) spren and the embodiment of Highstorms, something connected to Honor in the same way Nightwatcher is connected to Cultivation. But that's really just speculation, I'm just as bewildered as you are, but I guess, it's more complicated than it seems...heh.

In Stormfather's case, I wonder if his mind could've been damaged when Honor was splintered, too...

I often wonder about Raoden's "perfection", it's mentioned time and again by everyone, but I think his character works because of the situation he's in. He's really just a flat character who doesn't evolve (much) throughout the book, though, he does run into plenty of obstacles, these don't really change his key personality though he still takes time to overcome them and sometimes fails at doing so... Although his "heroic willpower" always works, it's like its invested! Seriously, sometimes I felt like he was somehow unconsciously using a very small amount of  investiture to convince the others in Elantris to follow his lead...subconsciously. That's neither here or there though. In other words, Raoden's just a static character, but that's not the same as a Gary Stu, it just means that development-wise, he's not that interesting. Though, I honestly think that he could've gotten some at certain points in the story (such as when Sarene causes his plans for Elantris to fail for awhile)...

Speaking of dynamic  characters though, ever since I read this book, I've loved Hrathen. His character development is amazing and he makes for probably the best "villain" in the Cosmere. He's awesome, but like any of my favorite characters in these books...well...yeah...sigh. :/

Ehhhhhhh, yeah and that would be one thing were she an actual person who had a right to privacy or self definition. And I would agree that Jasnah, if she was sitting in a room with us, if she was something other than straight, would most likely define herself by the other things. Like being a woman or a "heretic" or a scholar. 

 

However, she actually is actually a potentially queer fictional character in a series full of straight characters. And it is unsatisfying to claim that it would somehow lessen that character to be upfront with her sexuality when most every other major character is both straight and has been shown to be straight in a way that has not monopolized or otherwise diminished their character. Secondary characters like Lopen and Teft (Teft was the one with the crush on the barmaid in WoR?) have both been shown to be attracted to the opposite sex, something that was neither necessary nor did it diminish anything else about them. 

 

So no, I think it's silly for Jasnah, if she has some sort of sexuality other than straight to have it kept off stage so it doesn't co-opt her character. Purely arbitrary characters have been shown to also have sexual preference and it has never been a problem. 

 

I should reiterate that this is my response to Nymph and Argent's justifications for Brandon's (paraphrased) statement. Not the statement itself.

First, it's "Nymp", no pun, despite the irony that this would create.

Second, being demisexual could mean that she's bi, lesbian, or straight. This could also be a more interesting character arch than the stereotypical justifications that Argent mentioned, but I often get tired of reading about romance in general (I have a low level of romantic-tolerance; probably much lower normal than the norm)...

 

That would be a very reasonable thing to mean. Jasnah, for all that she is a great character, is not one that the reader has spent a lot of time with at this point in the series. It's possibly she may never been a full pov like Dalinar or Shallan. It's possible that, with the ending to the second book, she may never be in a setting where her sexuality is going to be relevant to the plot. Like Szeth in the first two books.  

 

Still, there are plenty of characters whose sexuality is completely irrelevant to the plot who have been also shown to be attracted to the opposite sex. 

She'll get her own book though in the second series, so, we'll probably know by then what's up with her. Remember, she could always be asexual or aromatic, and considering that she hasn't had many pov in general, it's hard to show her sexuality properly...

As a female "scholar" myself, I would feel deeply annoyed if someone started to pester me about this topic...probably for similar reasons. I think what he's getting at here is that Jasnah doesn't define herself according to her romantic longings, it annoys her that people want to define her based on this and not on her work (which she is passionate about). She doesn't need to be defined by a romantic partner, she shouldn't have to be. What defines her is the work she does and the discoveries she's made, thus, if she found a partner, that person would have to allow her to continue to be defined by her work first and her partner second...

I personally hope she doesn't get into a relationship, it shouldn't matter one way or another if she finds "true love" or romance. That's not what she wants, and that should be enough, I think. Buuuuut, if I was to guess her sexuality, it's probably some kind of demisexual; she'll only like you if she gets to know you and you can fit, she doesn't need romance...a shocking revelation, indeed.

Thank you for those questions, Lady Radagu!

 

I am particularly fond of the bit where a Shardblade can have bonds to multiple people. I have this vision in my head of two people fighting and it's like Pacman and one person chases the other until the other gets the Blade ten heartbeats later, and then they reverse positions. I may be a bit crazy from tiredness.

I think it's more like super deadly Shardblade tag. When one person gets the Shardblade, they're suddenly it. Better run like Odium wants your Shard in this game, eh? (Yes, I might need sleep...maybe).

"Shadow of self" in the context of  the original they quote may very well be talking about the fact that Leras no longer had a body and was only a cognitive shadow (and one with very little awareness at that) by the point that Vin let Ruin escape. This means that the title could refer to a lot of cognitive shadows running a muck on Scadrial; thus you have multiple shadows causing havoc or at least messing with Wax's mind a bit. So, this quote and the title are talking about cognitive shadows specifically, and probably not just Splinter-ones...

I expect that after we read it we'll have a lot better understanding of cognitive shadows in general, how much they all like 'ghosts', and why some people stick around while others move on. What keeps them there, I imagine personally these shadows must have something (regret, religion, responsibility, Investiture, etc.) that keeps them bound to the world. A bit like other myths about ghosts and spirits that haven't yet moved on, though, of course they have a solid and somewhat...scientific explanation as to why this can happen (related to the cognitive/spiritual realms in some fashion) while these myths aren't nearly as tight...

Isn't “12 years our time” referring to the 2002-2014 timespan?

As I said, wrong one, I think that I saw it wasn't that long earlier, but now I can't remember where...haha.

Of course, there's the possibility that a bunch of people read it wrong, too, but there's nothing that says he was there for 50 or 100 years, still I seem to recall that it hasn't been too long...maybe.

I saw somewhere that Vasher had been on Roshar about 50 years.

I would very much like to see that if it exists.

A decade, not 50 years.

Q:  When you were planning Zahel being, how long did you do that?

A:   Vasher was in the 2002 version of WoK by name.  I only changed him to the new name after I finished this entire draft.  Because I was like, oh he'd probably go under a pseudonym.  So he's been in Roshar 12 years our time.

Source

Wait a moment, that's not the right one.

Shame I can't put myself in a bubble and wait 'til these are released.

You'd have to bring enough Cadmium...assuming you're a Pulser/Mistborn, that is.

I think he accidentally wrote another book, which is the sequel to Bands of Mourning. He hid it because if all the other fantasy authors knew he had accidentally written two books, they would all just give up and Brandon's publishers didn't want him to do that. 

And secretly, that's what the document underneath it is! (I kid, but still...)

Only more proof that the Sanderbots are working really well now and evolving into an army of super-writing things...

That's true, but there's still a lot that's not answered. Is Kel choosing to stick around, or does he want to move on and is stuck? How is he a cognitive shadow anyway? What sort of stuff is he capable of doing as a shadow? 

 

And a Marsh or Sazed or Kesier POV would be amazing. We'll just have to wait and see...

Okay, quick thing here. Since spren are based off the ideal/form in the spiritual realm (like fire spren), one can suppose that while other worlds don't have cultivated, living ideas; they still have ideals represented in the other realms, or so I would think... On Scadrial they have this religion where they believe that the Survivor isn't dead (even immortal...) and because of this, an ideal form of this idea would supposedly exist in the spiritual realm... In this case, though, because Kel stuck around (originally of his own free will, perhaps), and after hijacking Preservation he may have had some idea of what might happen or he may have decided to stick around to fulfill the role that the Church of the Survivor had made for him (or been 'forced' to do it). It might even be a combination...

Though, really, this is just pure speculation at this point. And it jumps around a lot too, sorry.

hmm, Peter the Troll strikes again. >.>

That secret was edited the same day as his Alcatraz 5 folder (8/12/14) and around the same time (1:13 for Alcatraz 5, 1:14 for the 'secret'); my theory is it's Alcatraz 6, though, I can't remember when that's supposed to be released...

Either that, or Elantris 2.
 

More evidence for my theory that Kelsier never "moved on," even after HoA. Perhaps in the two new Wax and Wayne books we'll get to find out more. Or maybe not until the third Mistborn trilogy, which would be a very long wait. Grr.

 
Pretty much canon by this point...he's just a cognitive shadow who has a little too much sway over events... Part of me hopes though that this is really a sign of either a Marsh, Kel, or Sazed POV - probably Marsh - since, the view point character may have a more...personal connection to Luthadel (or it's history)...

Mind you, this argument is about as solid as water vapor, but I wouldn't mind seeing Marsh's view point again...

It could be a sDNA issue... Vasher's sDNA makes it more difficult to adsorb Stormlight, so when the body (or Cognitive/Spiritual aspect?) does so, it uses up Investiture in the process than eats the remaining Investiture. Since Stormlight likes to escape at the same time he does this process (which takes an unspecified amount of time), he loses it in that way too, and supposing he does this in private once a week and if the process is both time consuming and inconvenient, the total cost of transmutating Stormlight into edible Investiture might be just too high to make it convenient...if you follow my drift.

If that made sense at all, that is...(and I realized this doesn't really address Awakening with Stormlight, in some ways, that might be easier...maybe).

This sounds familiar, nah, weird that I kind of was just thinking about this, though.
 
Since it's a bit late for me as well, I'm going to just ask a question (I've read your whole theory), do the unconventional commands fit into the Intent of the Shard? Since the Intent is to Endow with deity (or more broadly, just to Endow with a 'gift'), then these commands don't look as unconventional. Just thought I would point it out, though, I'll respond more to your post later...