Aleksiel

Of course they are separate groups, I wanted to illustrate how limited the knowledge of the Parshmen being former Voidbringers is.

I understand that sentence in the meaning that when the WR and their squires arrived, the Skybreakers were dividing the innocent from the guilty among a group that was already there, not that the SB were judging the squires.

It makes sense for Amaram to want Jasnah, but her father was SoH, too, why didn't he attempt to bring her on their side? And how could they know about who the voidbringers were? The Diagram says nothing about it (so far as we know; I'm very suspicious how Diagram T could miss something of the scale ), Jasnah found out after years of research, the visions from the Stormfather have no such knowledge. (and that it's important, but my nick is with k instead of x )

True, but it's not like the SoH could do that. I wonder if and how much they knew about the Everstorm. Gavilar has mentioned it, but how much did he know? Did the SoH even know Parshendi have different forms? How? They had forgotten about stormform until recently and supposedly no human civilization had contact with them before Gavilar's expedition. If Gavilar had the same visions as Dalinar, then there shouldn't be anything Parshedi related there. Actually, the SoH (more like Gavilar's big mouth) made the Parshendi assassinate the Alethi king. Why the Parshendi later on never explained or made up a persuasive story to make peace again I don't understand. They could have thought of something politically acceptable (may be pretend he ruined a shrine of theirs or did something really offensive in their culture; the alethi could have never known otherwise). The Alethi had send messengers before the war to try and find out what happened, but the Parshendi never before WoR tried a peaceful approach to end the conflict. While in a way the SoH started it, I can't blame it all on them.And I doubt Gavilar meant to be assassinated in the first place.

Then let's agree to disagree, and see what the canon will be. If they can't contribute to the Desolation (surgebind), why would he bother with them? He'd attack the SoH only if they have the knowledge and the means to be a real threat. They knew about Taln, which is impressive, however it's not enough to draw conclusions about their overall competence to actually pose a danger to Nale's plan. They aren't even protecting surgebinders or looking for them so far as we know. Hm, good point. I haven't given his minions enough to credit to consider them instead of Helaran working alone.

It would feel like a wasted opportunity for me. There's much more to do with Elhokar as a character than simply killing off when nobody cares. It could most definitely happen, I'm not arguing against that. However, it's not something I'd enjoy reading. I think his story has better places to go tha end in the middle of nowhere. I consider awareness and acceptance to be part of personal development, so nothing to disagree here on except definitions, which won't very productive. Cryptics are about realizing what you want to deny. Elhokar is a good candidate on this one. Well, as you know, I'm not really for him being a LW, but I'll try to defend the theory for the sake of a good character discussion We don't know if he meant Roshone. Why would he think he appeared soft back then? Who'd bring that one up? Sadeas was satisfied and so was Dalinar, Elhokar has no reason to think he did wrong on that one. He was referring to something else if you ask me. I doubt he wanted to appear stromg when he send Kladin to prison. Actually, I'd rather say that 'when he tries to be merciful, he appears too soft.' was referring to not letting Kal free earlier because he feared the public opinion. The guy just needs a better PR Why should his focus on his image make him any less of a potential LW? Where is it said LW can't be deeply concerned with how they are viewed? Plus the guy has only his image. He has no real power, no men (even the King's Guard is under Dalinar's command). His public image is the only thing he has any control over. I totally agree. However none of those are pointed as TW traits. So we couldn't know his Order based on what we've seen, that was my main point. It's easy to misjudge characters and it all looks clear in past tense. edit to not make a double post: We knew about the attributes and I don't think even one person would have put Renarin with the TW. I'm not arguing in favor of Elhokar being a KR, but it's still difficult to say who will be one and which Order they'll be. Even Adolin whom we know much about, yet there are plenty of different opinions despite all the new things about the Orders.

Those are a lot of ifs - if Nale knows about the SoH; if what the SoH do is not illegal; if the SoH are competent enough to be a hindrance. Why not arrange another attempt at the life of Amaram if Nale cared so much about it? I really think you're pushing it instead of going for the much simpler explanation that Nale wasn't involved.

Sorry, I couldn't completely ignore it. What was so significant personally or action-wise about little Shallan or Renarin? Sure, we know nothing about young her and he's quick to jump to help his brother, however it wasn't reasonable to do so and hasty actions don't strike me as Truthwatcher's trait. He's a good person and has qualities, I'm not denying that. Him becoming KR was an easy way for his character to progress, but we're yet to see him expressing his supposed attributes. His desire to protect Adolin falls more under WR category and is not within his Order's description. Yes, he doesn't strive to protect anyone else, but that's not my main point. Even Dalinar wasn't widely considered by the fandom to be a potential Bondsmith before WoR, most people thought he'd be a Stoneward. And that's considering Dalinar had plenty of screen time and PoVs. Yet most of us (including me) misjudged him, but looking back now, it's easy to see what makes him a Bondsmith material.

Sending someone on the battlefield to specifically kill Amaram is basically assassination. And why not make another attempt at his life since the last one failed? edit: Also, Nale believes surgebinding is the reason for Desolation, why should he be interested in Amaram in the first place? So he is an a group that wishes the Heralds to return, And? He can't surgebind, probably none of them can. Then why would Nale bother with them?

But Nale has the means to kill Amaram when he's alone with no witnesses. Why send a minion with Shards and make a scene?

Why kill a not-so-minor character if the reader won't care much for? I don't say it won't happen, I just see it a waste of ink and paper to happen before Elhokar progresses. He won't suddenly become a better person, but he will have a clearer goal in mind (becoming a full KR), milestones to track his progress (the Oaths). His authority will have better grounds - he currently is king just in name, but not in power. We don't know much about his strengths, he didn't have enough screen time, revealing conversations or any PoV for us to draw conclusions from. So far Cryptics seem to be more about personal development rather than interested in the greater good, so someone who wishes to better himself seems more fitting than not. Perhaps there's a better story arch for Elhokar, becoming Radiant or dying are just two of the many possible ways his story could take.

You are right. However, Nale's determination and persistence to find a legal ground to get rid of surgebinders makes me incline to believe he'd rather dig further than resort to such measures. Also, Nale has been able to find surgebinders and detect stormlight usage with eerie accuracy, and has way of disguising himself (most likely as shadow), therefor he could have easily gotten close enough to Amaram to check whether or not he was indeed a surgebinder. So, having the means to appear from what seems like out of thin air, why would Nale send Sharbearing Helaran across a battlefield to slay a non-surgebinder?

If Elhokar is not to progress, then he'll die sooner rather than later. But the way things are now, his death will only affect Dalinar and basically no reader will care much, so it doesn't seem the best course of action. I think the easiest and fastest way for Elhokar to progress is to become Radiant - he'll gain credibility, respect (finally), it will give him confidence and will reinforce his position as a king. That being said, I don't know if it's the best way for him to do those or will feel as a cheap way out. I sincerely doubt he'll suddenly become more competent without an outside source like a spren bond.

I bothers me she used the wrong cover for WoR, I really dislike that one But I'll definitely keep an eye for all the Cosmere videos, it looks fun.

Sarene The Sons of Honor Amaram Sadeas

I doubt Nale was on with Helaran's plan. Nale managed to dig a crime from 4o years ago, it should have been piece of cake to find out about the Sons of Honor and their conspiracy. If Nale knew, he probably would have acted against them since his purpose is to prevent another Desolation and that's exactly what they want.

I assumed the Willshapers being 'inconsistent in temperament' meant their temperament varied from person to person, not that they were bipolar or terribly moody. I suppose since Elhokar is aware of the spren's presence, there might be a bond forming, otherwise he wouldn't have been the only one noticing them. I don't know which Order I'd prefer for Elhokar - I want to know more about Willshappers, so having one in the next book will give us some perspective of the Order. On the other hand, Elhokar would a very different LW than Shallan is and it'd be interesting to compare. Either way, he still has a long way to go.

It's not canon, but seems likely - the Skybreakers follow the law to the letter and Helaran went full Shardbearer across a battle field to kill Amaram while slaughtering any soldiers who had the misfortune to be in his way. That doesn't sound Skybreaker to me, I doubt Nale authorized it, so Helaran most likely acted on his own. About the WoB on Heralds being mad, I think you confuse it with the popular opinion, which is not canon to my knowledge. We know Ash 'is getting worse' (WoR prelude) and she's widely speculated to be destroying images of herself around Roshar (Baxil's interlude, WoK), but that doesn't mean all Heralds are mad.

I think this is the shared opinion among the fandom - the modern Skybreakers aren't surgebinders and are led by Nale; Shallan's elder brother was part of the group, but likely left for unknown reason. Nale doesn't seem mad to me. He appears emotionless, may be cruel and despicable but that doesn't prove insanity. He prosecutes surgebindering criminals with eerie efficiency, so he probably has some sort of fabrial to help him find them. He has become a twisted version of Justice, but after Syl's speech how highspren are all about the law and WoB has it Skybreakers first Ideal is 'I will put the law above all else', then may be the Skybreakers have always been like that. It's unclear why he believes surgebinding will bring Desolation and we're yet to see if he'd still hunt down surgebinders after the Voidbringers are back. Whatever reason he has in mind, it's too soon to disregard it. It's been speculated (or is it already canon?) that Honor trapped Odium with the surges, so may be Nale believes using them weakens the prison or something. Overall, it would be too easy and unsatisfactorily for him to just be a delusional madman.

I don't have the book now, but they were there when Shallan started to draw Vargo in WoK, so they ended up in the picture she tore apart and refused to show. Seeing Cryptics in the mirror hasn't happened to Shallan. If Cryptics are watching Elhokar, it's probably because he's the king. He doesn't have (or at least hasn't show) even a spark of creativity. Although him almost coming to the realization he has failed as a king is exactly the type of a hidden truth a Cryptic would like to hear.

Cultivation turned her back on humanity after Honor's death, that's too emotional to be INTJ. I'd chose it for Ruin over Cultivation.

It's highly improbable for Elhokar to have any Honorblade - his eyes would have changed accordingly like Szeths when summoning Yezrien's Blade. Elhokar has had his for years, I'd think he would have noticed he could surgebind at some point. There were Cryptics around Shallan and Vargo, though it's uncertain which one they were there for. If they were watching Vargo, it's only fitting they keep an eyes on Elhokar. Elhokar talked about moving shadows at one point, which is more like Jasnah's spren and doesn't match Cryptics.

Here: source edit: I wonder if there's an in-world reason for that.

Shallan figuring out the code before she wrote back to the Ghostbloods? Shallan figuring out the pattern of the Shattered Plains?

Could be, the Occam's razor points toward him. Just because I present some counter points doesn't mean I deny the possibility. An interesting discussion needs diversity and a theory that can't disprove counter arguments is no good. I also doubt he's a squire, just mentioned it as a one kind of glowing non-Radiants. And, to get too technical, Lift says she 'could swears he glowed', which isn't the same. Nale is the likeliest candidate for the Herald, who went back, I wanted to be clear on the 'it's not canon yet' part.