Aleksiel

OreSeur? TenSoon? Zane Venture?

Is it my turn or is the manipulator of manipulator someone else?

Vin? Marsh?

At one point in WoK Adolin noticed a windspren around his father in battle, so I think she must have spend some of her time away from Kaladin with Dalinar. Why she doesn't say anything I can't even guess. After Lamaril's soldiers beat Kaladin, she went to trip them, which is admittedly neither honorable, nor serving as any protection. Pattern has come to learn, so it makes sense he'll want to remain close to Shallan. He requires a lot of explaining. Even form the start (ok, the re-start) Pattern wasn't inclined to leave Shallan and explore on his own whereas Syl had acted like a typical windspren. Pattern and Syl's behaviors are different as are their spren types and personalities. edit: spelling

Kelsier?

The Nightwatcher (related to Cultivation) is famous for her boon/curse system, which has certain similarities with the cycle of Desolations/peace. Based on intent, I'd say the original conflict should have started between Honor and Odium. Cultivation either acted as a force of balance or (since Wyndle says his mother lost interest in humanity after Tanavast died) she supported Honor initially.

Hmm, Brandon is all for showing instead of telling, so I don't know where your colleague's argument is coming from. If he found the characters unsympathetic, that's mainly personal preference I suppose. Just because he already got something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be described again. In fact, important things should be repeated so that the majority of readers remember. Can you give an example of a decision that didn't make sense in-world? Things like that can be argued and reasoned. What kind of person is your colleague? There are some people you can't get a meaningful discussion with. Does he speak this way of other authors and books? I know a person who just loves to hate on numerous novels. Give him anything to read and he'll only enjoy bashing it and repeating it apart. He too can make it sound very sophisticated and reasonable, but in the end he's just a very unpleasant person who doesn't appreciate literature and thinks himself a great critic for not liking a single book and openly hating on many.

The KR exist to defend humanity against the Voidbringers, it would need a great amount of effort to convince readers this can change. Nahel bond spren do not wish to co-exist with Voidbringers and voidspren, that is the very reason Pattern and Wyndle have been send in their own words. I don't know if Eshonai is trapped in her mind. The screaming could be her Blade being terrified by the proximity of a voidspren. Dead Blades scream when touched by surgebinders, why not when bonded to a Voidbringer? If the radiant spren and the voidspren somehow manage to co-exist, this is a game changer. Welcome to the Adolin-the-Edgedancer side! We have chicken. And you get cologne even in prison.

As baffling as it sounds, there will be people who don't share your love for certain books for people have different preferences. Brandon uses Orwelian prose (link is to a video where he explains it) that has five rules: And the sixth is it's fine to break all of the above in certain situations. May be your colleague isn't accustomed or simply does not enjoy this type of prose, but it in no way means Brandon (or any author with this writing style) is a bad writer. So he should really reconsider and realize the difference between not liking a book and a book being poorly written. Mistborn is meant to be fast-paced, so of course it doesn't include large sections of descriptions, that's for epic fantasy. Although I can't say even WoK or WoR have long passages like Wheel of Time for example. Can you elaborate on what your colleague didn't like? I don't know if you can make anyone like a book they didn't, though. He could just try another one by Brandon, something more to his taste.

Unfortunately, no. I know only Slavic languages, not counting English. I'll wait for an explanation of the pun then, when someone guesses correctly

I don't know Latin, so I have no idea what the pun might be.

Copper? Smoker?

I doubt it was screaming during the bonding five days. If the Blade had started screaming the moment Ren touched it in Adolin's PoV, he would have had a stronger reaction I think. Screaming doesn't start before the second oath or at least the only people we know hearing screams have sworn two oaths. The screaming most certainly doesn't start if there's only bodning without oaths - Dalinar's experience with not-Taln's Blade.

One main Radiant per Order, but he never said anything about them being the same persons in both five books. Lift will be major character later in the second five. Why not have another ED in the first five? Small picture is Adolin caring for the other soldiers on the battlefield whereas Dalinar was focusing on the strategy of the battle. Things like that. It wasn't meant to offend Adolin, it's in a way how Kaladin is as well. There's nothing straight forwarded in the idea of Adolin reviving his Blade. The hints are subtle, foreshadowing. The average reader doesn't analyze and memorize events as we here on the forum. Most readers are cosmerely unaware. Giving Sadeas PoV chapters when he only failed to harm Dalinar and ended dead - that's red herring. Adolin talking to his Blade and other minor hints here and there are foreshadowing. I hope Eshonai remains our Voidbringer PoV character, that's too interesting for me. And her reviving her Blade would require her to get rid of the voidspren somehow and much more efforts. Why would Rysn revive a Shardblade? She doesn't even have one, she has a larkin. Please note that if you don't use the quote button at the end of posts, people don't get notifications and don't know you answered to their posts. edit: That Duck appears in both his fights with Szeth, so may be Adolin's proximity to surgebinders will somehow help or it's already regaining bits of consciousness. The foreshadowing is Adolin talking to his Blade and refusing to name it on the grounds of the Blade already having a name and him just not knowing it. It's subtle and there are only a few things, that's why it's called foreshadowing Pattern and Shallan discuss the possibility of reviving Blades; we know Cryptics' efforts failed. Pattern speculated it might be possible of their Radiants lived and we know from Syl Blades become a little alive each time they are summoned and Adolin has a nervous tick of summoning his Blade. That's all there is to it in-world I believe. edit2: How is that relevant? T's hospitals help the poor and unfortunate. A group of thieves hardly qualifies.

There will be more than one Radiant per Order, so the need for Lift's originality isn't a convincing argument. The characters of course have more than two traits, the question is which are the leading ones. Does Adolin stand out as particularly braver than the other characters we have? Not really. He can grow into the Order of Edgedancer, he has the other qualities associated with them - eloquent, refined, elegant, deadly warrior, not too demanding, focused on the small picture. We're talking about potential here. If anyone is to revive his Blade (it's been mentioned in-world, we know it's possible, so it is very likely to happen). Occam's razor is Adolin will be the one who'd do it. It's too big an event for it to happen in some nobody's interlude or outside a PoV character. Adolin's special connection to his Blade has been foreshadowed for two books. Foreshadowing isn't the same as red herring - the former is subtle whereas the latter is much more straight forwarded. On a humorous note if you don't see Adolin as an ED, then he probably will be one since Dalinar was generally speculated for a Stoneward and no one guessed Renarin will end up with the learned and giving Truthwatchers before WoR. Just a few quick points, because I don't have the time for a longer post: how exactly is the group who robbed the palace fitting for 'forgotten' one? They were an organized group of thieves. If we take a look far back in Adolin's past, he's been a very nice and friendly guy, beloved by his men, remembering his mother, treating everyone fairly; maxal's point was even someone with a forming bond can step away from their supposed attributes, so don't expect someone who's not even there to be more radiant than a surgebinder.

Which world is it then? And another hint may be?

Bravery is not Adolin's distinctive trait. His actions aren't based on it. Kaladin has showed bravery on numerous occasions, but his primary motivations was and is protecting. Renarin has shown bravery and obedience on many occasions, too, but he is a Truthwatcher. I have difficulty seeing Ren as learned and giving, however I have non seeing Adolin as loving and healing. Adolin doesn't stand out as braver than the other characters. However, he's far more caring than the average lighteyes. Let me remind you Shallan has honesty as secondary attribute, yet her honesty is mainly to herself - to everyone else she presents the truth in a slightly twisted manner, despite having good intentions. You should not limited your interpretation of attributes to what we're accustomed to. You claim anyone is Adolin's position would have stepped to help the prostitute, yet nobody did it. Only Kaladin, who was across the street made any move and in his PoV he mentions people walking faster away from the officer hitting the girl. edit: oops, wrong attribute

Oh, I misunderstood you then, sorry. That's a very good point. Although I think we'll learn about Recreance in the first five. Syl had been alive then, but she doesn't remember much even after a full year of being bonded (I think it's an year?), Pattern also has problems thinking, the Stormfather doesn't feel like sharing.... And he survived Recreance! So I don't think another spren who knows what really happened will be a huge issue, I suspect it will take weeks, even months for those memories to come back. So if Adolin revives his spren in the next book, we won't have much new info on Recreance until SA4. edit: It's interesting Syl seems to be perfectly fine thinking after she's revived unlike Pattern who wasn't even fully dead, yet he had lots of trouble initially. I wonder why that is?

I wouldn't say he's 5-6 years behind. If Adolin is to indeed revive his Blade or attract a spren, it should happen during the next book or two, otherwise it might feel anti-climatic.

Well, for the alethi society darkeyes are the lowliest. Those soldiers were 'forgotten' by Dalinar, Elhokar and the other lighteyes as just another casualty, nothing to waste time on. Kaladin was sentenced to rot in a cell without knowing when (and if) he'd be freed; abandoned by his peers and superiors. Just because Gawx is someone even his uncle doesn't care about, doesn't mean that's the only situation that qualifies for someone being forgotten, it could very well be interpreted as those who are neglected. You are taking the 'forgotten ones' to an extreme in my opinion. Adolin has the potential to become an Edgedancer, obviously he isn't one yet.

I've been wondering about how Renarin was able to handle it. Kaladin basically fell in pain when he heard the Blade scream. May be the amount of Oaths sworn increases the awareness? Dalinar's Blade started screaming after he swore two Oaths, before that it just felt uncomfortable, so we haven't seen how the Fist Oath influences this. Ren initially only grimaces when Adolin gave him the extra Blade he won, so Ren probably hadn't said any of the Words at that point. I mean being taken by surprise by a Blade sreaming in your head's bound to show, no? And he was still wearing glasses I think. So, may be later on when Ren says the First Oath, his Blade starts screaming, but not as bad as we witnessed in Kaladin's PoV. I don't think anyone has asked Brandon how many Oaths Ren has said. I wonder why Renarin didn't give the Blade away. He could have fought with only Plate to keep his fits at bay. I mean, at one point he refuses to even practice with Zahel. He could have thought of a bunch of good arguments like the importance of having practiced swordsmen armed with Blades. It's not like he'd stop being able to fight if he gave the Blade to someone else. It would be odd, but his father already gave his Blade away setting a precedent.

We'll get 10 major KR, other PoV characters and minor KR, 10 flashback characters, a book per Order and all of those might be different. I follow your argument, but you got to admit it's getting confusing

I agree, I initially thought it was very weird to hire as bodyguards a bunch of former criminals. May be the Bondsmith in Dalinar was drawn to the Windrunner vibe? At first I though Dalinar's logic to be lacking 'You had a few years experience as squad leader that I don't know of and you trained a bunch of slaves underneath Sadeas's nose, here - guard the king!'. What?! I know the pattern of flashback characters to be of the Order the book focuses on may not repeat, however it feels weird for Dalinar's book to not further our knowledge on Bondsmiths. Or may be Dalinar just won't have much opportunities to use his surges since he's supposed to lead and plan, unite and yada-yada not fight like before. Well, nothing is certain and we'll see how Brandon handles it. I'm a bit sad we might not get a Wilshaper, I thought Rysn would be one.

I am (as probably most of you have already know) a dedicated supporter of Adolin-revives-his-Blade theory. Brandon said it was possible, we even have in-world discussion of failed attempts (Pattern speculating that may be if their Radiants were alive), and Adolin is the likeliest candidate. The Chekhov's gun basically demands someone to revive his Blade. If Adolin does it, the spren will like be like Wyndle (with the growing vines description of it's appearance). Adolin's a peoples person, lightening up both Shallan and Kaladin's moods, easy to be around. Sure, he's a supporter for everyone knowing thier place, but he treats with respect everyone. His innitial grudge for Kaladin doesn't make him mistreat anyone else. ED are described as deadly and graceful, which fits Adolin. 'Not most demanding' - also fits ED were supposed to be fierce warriors after all. But Adolin's temperament and attitude also fit I believe. He likes the outward signs of refined and rich life without being dismissive or uncaring. He's shown to care about people many others would dismiss - the prostitute in WoK, the little darkeyed boy in WoR, he's the one mourning the dead soldiers while Dalinar is planning his next maneuver. Overall, I won't be surprised if Adolin ends up as an ED, in fact I'm all for it. Just because we already have Lift as ED doesn't mean there won't be another. We may not see Radiants of all Orders in the fist five, and get more than one member of some Orders. I believe this is canon for LW since there's a WoB Kaladin has met a LW in the past. As for Adolin being a SW, I don't have much to say against it because we don't know much about them. Adolin's not as headstrong as in-world WoR makes them look. I can't say dependability is Adolin's leading quality - we can call dependable both Kaladin and Dalinar, probably a bunch of other charcaters too and Adolin doesn't stand out as being more dependable than them. A questionable argument, but killing Sadeas in anger doesn't sound fitting to me for a SW. I also think there's a WoB we won't see much of their surges until the second five, so that's one point against it since I don't think it makes sense for Adolin to become a surgebinder after more than ten in-world years, he's not like the Blackthorn who'd need years to become worthy of Radinthood, Adolin's already one of the most decent and good characters we've seen. If he's to be a Radiant (by attracting a spren or reviving his Blade), it should happen in the next book or two. edit: spelling

The blood weakness is physical thing I imagine, although it may have some spiritual toll on his soul, but there might be something different. Knowing Brandon, there's likely something hidden here, may be connected to Renarin's mother. A broken soul is a must for the nahel bond - it's on the back of WoR I believe.