Herowannabe

Hreo enjoyed the mist from the waves across his face. You had to take time to enjoy the simple things in life, especially with all the madness and suspicions and schemings and backstabbings taking place aboard the AonTao. Also when your crew mates have lashed you to the ship's figurehead and left you hanging there for hours and hours, ignoring your calls for help. Hreo had long since lost his voice and given up yelling. Eventually someone would come untie him. Probably. "Rough spot we found ourselves in, eh buddy?" Hreo croaked to his only companion, a stuffed panda that had been left dangling in front of him. The fuzzy toy had a big gash across its face where it had been stabbed by a knife, and the rope that held it was tied in a noose around its neck. It was creepy. Don't have a lot of time to post today. This is all I've had time to write after three attempts, and my lunch break is technically already over. :\ Maybe I'll be able to post more tonight. As for the last minute change last night- sorry about that. I didn't mean it to be a last-minute thing, I just wanted to get everything done before I went to bed. I still think that Jene and Wyrm are innocent, and the grappling hook yesterday seems to reinforce that. However, I can't say the same thing for KalFS. Edit: spelling

Well Jene, that's good enough for me. Despite being the one to put you in that position I'm convinced- at least enough to not lynch you today. I've never seen a baddy voice suspicions right before he was about to be revealed as a traitor. And I know some disagree with me but I still don't think Wyrm is a traitor. His arguments and strategies have been too solidly anti-mutineer for me to ignore. So I could vote for someone random and leave things to chance or I could vote to protect two of the people I think are innocent. Sorry KalFS.

Well now I'm in a dilemma. I was about break the tie by voting for Jene (my vote for Jatae wasn't ever meant to be permanent, it was there just so I could "get the coin" in case I didn't have time to log back in today) but now if I do so it will tie it up again. While I still stand by all my "vote for coin" reasonings, they are absolutely trumped by voting based on suspicions and information, and right now I suspect Jene the most. Kal Fengshi is up there, too, sorta, so I guess I will go ahead and vote for Jene. That way, if nothing changes and if someone does use the grappling hook we'll end up lynching someone I suspect either way. And yes I realize by doing this I might be painting a huge target on my back. That's a risk that I'll just have to take. Besides, the only ones who can afford to not take risks in this game is the mutineers.

Speaking for myself, I can see a couple reasons for voting "for the coins." First of all, coins are more valuable to the powder-monkeys than the mutineers (at least until the Quartermaster dies and the axe becomes available). The Grappling hook is best used to try to block (and therefore reveal) the mutineers. The buckler, while it can be useful against a vote, it has to be purchased exactly one day in advance, meaning it is more useful for protecting against mutineer attacks. The loaded dice? To be honest, I don't see the point of the dice. They cost at least 1 coin, and all they do is increase your chances of winning... Wait for it... 1 coin (unless I'm seriously misreading the rules, but I've looked at them several times now and that's what they say). So the best you can do with the dice is break-even and cause everyone else who gambled to lose their coins. The axe is more useful to the mutineers, which, as Wyrm pointed out, is why it's imperative we don't let them get it. Second, the other reason for voting for "random" people is (as Aonar pointed out on week 1) to GET that information you were talking about. I don't want to say too much because I don't want to give ideas to the mutineers on how they should or should not act, but much can be learned from people's reactions to getting a vote or two stuck to them. Lastly, and admittedly this is the most shaky reason, but probably the most common one, is nobody wants to be the one to lynch an innocent player. Past games have shown that when an innocent player gets lynched the people who voted for him/her immediately fall under heavy suspicion. I've been there before, and don't really look forward to making that mistake again. So I don't plan on voting for anyone unless I've got some good reasons to suspect them. Edit: which is not to say that you don't make some good points, Kasimir. I'm just saying there ARE some legitimate reasons for throwing out seemingly "random" votes. But remember, too, that there's nothing that a mutineer loves more than a bandwagon.

Okay, is anyone else getting more suspicious of BOTH Wyrm and Jene? I don't think they're both mutineers, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was. Edit: changed my mind and deleted some stuff after posting this. I really don't know which of then to suspect, so I'm leaving my vote as it stands. For now.

in response to Kasimir: I'm on my phone so it's difficult for me to check, but I'm pretty sure there is only one of each item available per day while the Quartermaster lives. Thus there is only one grappling hook we have to worry about today. However this is a good point and very worrisome (and has bumped you up a little on my list of people I'm willing to trust). I hope there are at least a few of us who are doing the same so that we can block them if/when that time comes.

It just so happened that Hreo was the first one up in the morning- not because he was normally an early riser, but because when someone fills your hammock with itch-beetles it makes is blasted hard to sleep. Who had held on to THAT many of the cursed little bugs for all this time, anyway? Because Hreo was up so early, he was the one to discover Aonar's body. The death saddened him- Aonar had often been given the same tasks Hreo was- mucking out the bilge and scrubbing decks and all that- so they had often spent time working side by side. Now, Aonar hadn't been any kinder to Hreo than any of the other pirates, but still. Hreo would miss the Salty Dog. Actually it's more that Aonar has been one of my biggest scheming and plotting companions during the last two games I played. It will be weird not having him around for this one. :\ As for voting, I still don't have much more to go off of than I did 8 hours ago, so for now I'll vote for Jatae again, but only because he implied he would retract his vote for me and then never did.

As it drew towards mid afternoon, Hreo finally stumbled out of the crew quarters. He was late or because he had slept in, but because some of the other crew members- probably those accursed mutineers- had thought it would be funny to drag him out of his hammock in the middle of the night and hang him up by his ankles. It had taken Hreo all morning and half the afternoon to untie himself. As he staggered onto the deck, using his mop for support, he picked up snippets of the conversation. It sounded like the crew was getting ready to keelhaul someone in the hopes of ridding the ship of one of the mutineers. A few of the crew members, laughing behind their hands, had called Hreo out for not casting a vote yet, though of course they all knew where he had been all day. Not surprisingly, Jatae had accused Hreo. The only thing that was surprising was that more crew mates hadn't followed suit and tossed Hreo overboard already. So at this point in the game I don't really have a clue who to suspect, but since Jatae voted for me and I know that I'm innocent... Well, there you go. However, based on the soundness of people's arguments, here is who I'm pretty sure IS innocent. Hopefully by identifying them we can narrow down who ISN'T innocent: Aonar (Aonar): as in games past, Aonar's arguments are sound and very un-helpful to the mutineers. He's right, in this game especially we need to talk and get information as quickly as possible Kasimir (Kai): likewise, his reasoning for going for a tie-vote or at least a 4 vote lynching is a good one. The only flaw I see in his logic is that if we want a tie vote, it ought to also be a 3v3 or 4v4 tie. With a 2v2 tie it still leaves room for a last minute Mutineer rally ending up with 3 or 4 votes for our beloved Captain. Renegade (Riingar): Same arguments and sound logic as Aonar and Kasimir. Doubt he's a mutineer. Me: For what it's worth, I know I'm not a mutineer. Although I suppose that's exactly what a mutineer would say if he was trying to convince everyone he was innocent. Still, in this case, it's true. The are a few others, such as Wyrm and Jeno, who I don't THINK are mutineers, but whose logic has been kind of haphazard, so I hesitate to clear them completely yet. My only question now, is as a whole, are we trying for a tie-vote or are we trying to lynch someone today? I haven't been a fan of tie-vote strategies in the past (it's kinda like giving the mutineers a free day to kill somebody), and I'm still not, not really, but I'm willing to go along with it if that's what the group wants. It's true that it does give us a chance to collect information.

Call them the Letter-bearer? I mean, if Hoid and whoever the other person is are able to write letters to each other in the SA epigraphs, then there has to be some way of delivering said letters.

I have no problem waiting a couple more days

Yeah it's been a while, so when I saw another Quickfix was starting...

Hreo, the unlikely son of a Ffjordel father and an Arelonic mother, was always picked on and bullied growing up. So when he got old enough he decided that he'd show them a thing or two. He ran off to become a pirate and loot and plunder to his hearts content. But, much to Hreo's dismay, nothing has really changed. As a lowly deckhand he spends all his days swabbing decks and enduring the jeers and ridicule of his shipmates. And yes, by all means, PLEASE feel free to pick on or make fun of poor Hreo. It would be lame coming up with the backstory if nobody helped me follow through with it. And I promise not to take any of it personally.

My advice Kasimir:

That seems like it would lead to all sorts of bad consequences, like people down voting other posts or bargaining to up vote you if you up vote me or wanton up votes for no good reason or so on.

Personally I like the black market system as Renegade has outlined it. The problem I see with Joe's scenario is not that the "safe" player can bid as many votes as he wants, but it's the fact that there is a "safe" player at all. You'll note in my Elantris rules I made sure that all the good-guy roles can't be definitively proven to other people. But even if there IS a safe role, they still can't necessarily bid as much as they want, because then it makes it really easy for the bad guys to tack on a couple extra votes and get the safe role lynched.

Re: Elantrians:Hmm... You may be right. Maybe I should make them all start as Hoed. Re: Converts and the Gyorn. Yeah, that's an interesting quirk of the rules, but other than that Gyorn was just too perfect a fit for the Piper role. Good question about the Gyorn and the Priest. I think what I'll do is just send a copy of the convert list to the Gyorn and the Odiv, and leave it up to them to identify who did or didn't get converted. Re: Lovers: yes, they could potentially share a win with Shu-Dereth. Re: King/Queen: their role will be secret at first. Whether or not it remains a hidden role will depend on the succession rules that the King/Queen comes up with. Re: Pirate: Yeah, once again that's a quirk of the rules as I adapted the Hunter role to the forum-type game. In Werewolves, when the Hunter dies he can immediately choose someone else to kill. I needed a way for the Pirate's victim to die at the same time as the pirate, just in case the pirate player didn't log on for a while. Hence the hostage situation.

(Apologies about the double post- doing multi-quotes is difficult on my phone) All good questions, and I will clarify them in the OP. But in the meantime: DEBT: it stays with the Duke/Duchess for the rest of the game. HOED: Nobody will start the game as a Hoed, nor will they be made a Hoed immediately after being taken by the Shaod.Thats just too mean. VETERAN ELANTRIAN: A handful of players will start the game as Elantrians. At least one of them will be a Veteran. There may or may not be ways for others to become a Veteran hidden among the secrets of Elantris. I hope everything makes more sense now.

Actually, they can target Elantrians. I should make that more clear in the OP too: Elantrians can be targeted by everyone's powers, they just can't use their own powers to target outsiders. I based the Gyorn on the Piper from the Werewolves OMH: New Moon expansion. The piper charms (converts) 2 players per night until everyone is charmed, at which point the piper wins. The only change I made was to allow the Gyorn to pick a sidekick (the Odiv), and force them to split their power between the two of them. I did that 1) because it allows for more people to be doing stuff, which is always a good thing, and 2) because it mitigates the luck factor a little bit of the players randomly killing the Gyorn off early in the game. There are a couple things that reign the Gyorn/Odiv in: 1) they can't kill anyone. Players they convert are still alive and in the game doing stuff, unlike the Cultists' victims. And more importantly: 2) The converts know who the other converts are. If the Gyorn selects his Odiv too soon, it will be pretty easy to narrow down which convert is the Odiv. Near the end of the game, it's going to be harder for the Gyorn to hide because there will only be a few players who aren't converts. Ironically, the converts' collective knowledge is the Gyorn's biggest concern. though this reminds me of an addendum I need to make to the Gyorn. Also, 3) the Cultists have a vested interest in tracking down and killing the Gyorn and the Odiv ASAP lest Shu-Dereth steals the victory away from the Cultists. And lastly, 4), as has already been pointed out, Shu-Dereth can't win as long as a Priest is still alive. Really, if anything, I think the Gyorn and the Odiv are fighting an uphill battle. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Sorry, let me clarify a little bit in the Original Post.

PAFO (Play and Find out)probably not Lerasium though. Probably.

Rough draft of my Elantris rules are posted in the Creating Roles section

Alright, I've been working on things, and here is the rough draft for my Elantris rules. I think I may just have surpassed Claincy's Nalthis game for complexity though. I THINK I covered all the possible interactions of powers I'm pretty sure I've missed stuff. So look things over and tell me if anything is unclear or there are problems with the roles. I incorporated several roles from Werewolves that I like (the Gyorn, for example, is basically the Piper, but with a twist or two). I also thought up several new roles. It didn't start out this way, but eventually I noticed that I was developing a bit of a theme of roles that play around with votes, so I went with it. Also, one of my goals was to make it so that nobody has a way of absolutely proving their innocence to others. We've already seen how that can mess with games. Hopefully all these new vote-related roles will encourage players to stay active and involved in the game. If I misspelled anything, please let me know. I mostly listen to Brandon's book on audiobook, so sometimes I don't know how things are spelled. Anyway, here it is: (Edits, updates, and clarifications in maroon) EDIT: Clarified a couple parts in the Elantris section. EDIT: Almost forgot an interesting role-ability I had in mind! See the King/Queen section. EDIT: Added clarifications to numerous roles, including the Gyorn, Prince/Princess, Duke/Duchess, the Debtor, the Lovers, and the Elantrian roles.

Sorry about the double post- my phone isn't letting me edit the above post. @Wilson: True, but Rowan is a VERY skilled and resourceful hunter.

@Meta: we could down vote a few of your posts and try to keep you at 666 for as long as possible if you want.

If it makes you feel any better, you were delicious. You made an excellent rabbit stew.