ccstat

Listening to this, I keep trying to jump in on the conversation to agree/disagree. I'm pretty sure you can't hear me, though. Thanks for doing this. Now I need to go organize a discussion group of my own.

Two minor thoughts after rereading the Tower scenes from WoK: Regarding squires, the first evidence for squire abilities comes immediately after Kaladin swears his second ideal. Teft watches Kaladin land on the other side of the chasm, and notices "his wounded arm didn't seem to hurt as much as it should." That's a pretty clear indication of how soon a KR can empower squires, at least with passive abilities like healing. Dalinar's apparent habit of acquiring talented people and paying the price they name adds extra dimensions to the way he buys the bridgemen from Sadeas with Oathbringer. The exchanges are framed differently, especially in how Dalinar thinks of them (his purchase of Kaladin and company being explicitly made in gratitude, rather than in expectation of further service) but the parallels are unavoidable. I'm interested in reanalyzing Dalinar's conscious and subconscious motivations in light of what we'll learn from the flashbacks.

I considered that, but I don't think so. The corresponding vision in WoK (ch 75) ends after the Everstorm blows through, with Honor calmly saying he is dead. There's no yelling or "unite them" instructions while the storm is destroying things. When Honor is present in the vision he seems to speak normally, and though his disembodied voice is described as booming, it isn't shown in all caps.

I read the vision again, and noticed an oddity that hasn't been mentioned yet. Both during and after the vision, the Stormfather is using his inside voice (depicted with italics), but the last thing before the vision shatters is a line from someone speaking in all caps. I'm not sure whether the Stormfather interpreted Dalinar's demand "leave me" as "don't pull me out yet" or "go away." He didn't see the light or the figure, but we can't say for sure if that's because it came from another Shard or because he ducked out of the vision early. Either way, I don't think he suddenly decided to yell "UNITE THEM" with no context just as the vision ends. That was someone else. To me, this is the best evidence for the theory proposed earlier in this thread that Cultivation inserted that "champion" sequence into the end of the vision. (And just to reiterate, there is plenty of room for misinterpretation here. Dalinar is the one who assumes the figure is a champion, and the Stormfather identifies Odium and the Unmade from Dalinar's description since he couldn't see that part. I'm not sure what parts I trust yet, but I personally would be surprised if all of Dalinar's chapter one conclusions are correct.)

So, thinking about squires... We know that Windrunners had more squires than other orders, but most of the orders had some. We can only speculate which orders didn't have any (though I suspect the Bondsmiths for one). But the important question I have is whether the Lightweavers went in for squires? Because Kaladin isn't the only current radiant with a loyal following, or with a follower missing a body part. Shallan has her crew of former deserters, including a certain one-eyed gambler. So will Gaz pull a Lopen and get his depth perception back?

I want to confirm that yes, the map is being updated with each new post! (Someone, probably @The Young Bard, entered the most recent handful before I got to them.) ____ So, a question to the community: The original Master List and associated map were compiled from locations shared in threads like this, as well as from the Introduce Yourself or Events threads when users mentioned their locations. Since converting to this Geotracking 2.0 thread, the cataloging of new members has stopped, and we've only been adding people when they post here. I can't decide whether I think adding locations learned in other threads is a good idea or a bad idea. I am sort of leaning towards not collecting that info elsewhere, but would like to hear other opinions. Issue 1: Privacy. It seems safest to only include people who explicitly wish to be added, but I can also see the point that if they have willingly shared their location in the forums, they are comfortable with that information being available to our community. The locations are limited to country or (nearby) city, so I don't feel that there is any inherent danger in cataloging these with user names. Issue 2: Effort. It is much simpler to use a dedicated thread than to read a bunch of other threads and user profiles for location information. Issue 3: Usefulness: While it is fun to look at the map as a whole and see pins all over the world, the utility of this map comes (in my opinion) from the ability to make connections with those who live near you (or in places you've lived before). For example, when Brandon came to Boston I used the map to contact other Sharders in the area and coordinate a meetup. When members self-select to be on the list, the ones you find on the map are more likely to be active Sharders who will see and respond to a message. On the other hand, including everyone lets you cast a wider net and maybe meet more friends. Take the past few weeks for instance: we have had a lot of new members join for the Aether of Night manuscript, who I imagine will visit the site again only rarely. Some of those will have posted their country of origin--does adding them to the map increase or decrease it's usefulness?

Perhaps, but giving a rationale to the people you want to lead never hurts. The Blackthorn didn't unite Alethkar by himself last time; Gavilar was there to take care of the politicking, which is definitely necessary now if Dalinar doesn't want to waste too much time conquering the entire world. Seems to me that giving an explanation like @eveorjoy's is more likely to accomplish that goal.

This is a great point. I'm sure it's not what Dalinar was thinking, but it sounds like a very valid argument to justify the action after the fact. I almost hope this is the angle he takes for assuming command.

Thanks for the link. I'd missed that thread. The quote referenced there (from one of the Unfettered flashbacks) lists the same three conquests but in a different order: Shin, Sunmaker, Hierocracy, rather than Shin, Hierocracy, Sunmaker. I'm going to conclude that we haven't learned anything about chronology yet.

Re: Dalinar's authority, it is significant that he doesn't even pretend that the appointments come from Elhokar. Maybe when they announce it they'll do it in the king's name, but for now he doesn't say, "I'll have Elhokar appoint you to the post," he says "I'm naming you for the position." This is a big shift for the man who swore to himself never to take the kingship. I also want to point out the amazing description of Urithiru. This place is bigger than I was imagining! 10 tiers of 18 levels, carved into the stone. Depending on how much space there is between levels for minor things like load-bearing floors, that adds up to a bare minimum of 700 meters, with a more reasonable estimate well over 1000 meters high. The description in WoR suggested the whole thing is substantially wider than it is tall. This really is a city. What was the planning meeting for this like? "We've picked a spot for the city. It's up in the mountains." "Great. Make sure you are high enough. The lowest level has to be taller than a giant magical hurricane." "Sure thing. We'll teleport everyone to the bottom, and we've invented elevators so height shouldn't be a problem." "Perfect. I was thinking of making it look like a kilometer-high wedding cake, just to show off." "Sounds good. I'll schedule the work crews." I am curious, though, where the 18 comes from. That doesn't really fit with our 10-obsessive Rosharans.

The gold surprised me as well. We've all been focusing on the red eyes, thinking that makes Rayse's color red. Now the reference to (Alloy of Law spoilers) Likewise! I'm trying to decide whether the order the events are mentioned indicates chronology. How long ago was this invasion? @Stark, yes, that first typo is just a missing line break.

Thanks for the amazing write up of the music. Your analysis of the songs makes me much more excited for the music than I was previously. Now I'm just trying to decide how much my budget can handle!

Glad to have you! I will guess that you are reading the sample chapters on Tor, but are you going to read Oathbringer when it comes out or listen to the audio? I haven't actually listened to any Cosmere books yet, but I've really loved the others I've listened to by Kate Reading (most recently the Lady Trent memoirs, starting with A Natural History of Dragons).

This is really exciting! I will definitely be sharing the campaign with as many friends as I can. EDIT: Are any of the producers here on 17S? I tagged @CaptainRyan initially because I thought he was posting as a creator, rather than copy/pasting to share the kickstarter cost info. I guess I'll post my questions on the kickstarter comments instead :-) I am especially excited for the art book! I know your focus is on the music, but I bet a lot of people would be interested in the art by itself. I'm sure you've thought of this, but if you have Botanica and your other artists publicize the art book specifically, they have a lot of fans who would jump at the product. Maybe enough to make an art-only tier? Out of curiosity, will the art book also contain the art from the CD insert, or are those separate pieces? And I am seriously considering the join-the-virtual-choir Wandersail reward level, but the next few months are going to be busy for me, and I'm not sure about my time commitments. When would you need our recording, and how long would we have to prepare? Can you tell us anything more about the piece, even just complexity/length?

I didn't even think of that! Zahel does appear to have been around the family long enough to make it plausible. Seems pretty out of character for him in this context, and I doubt the Nightwatcher is a red herring here, but as a long shot theory I really like it.

Regarding the Rhythms, @zebobes, @Pattern we do know from WoB (below) that they exist independently of the listeners, and that they are from the Spiritual realm. Non-listeners could potentially hear and understand them, and they aren't all emotive. The coppermind has a list of all the Rhythms mentioned so far. There are thirty-two, five of which are "new" rhythms associated with storm form. At a glance, Terror is the only one from the prologue that didn't already appear in WoR, but I may have missed some. I believe there are a large but finite number of rhythms. All of those should be the same for every listener, though some forms will be predisposed to hear/attune certain subsets of them. It would be interesting if the rhythms corresponded to surges or other phenomena, but I rather doubt it. If anything, I suspect they are analogous to the allomantic pulses that bronze can sense, with the idea that everything has some signature waveform in the Spiritual realm. So listeners have a particular affinity for emotive rhythms and bronze grants an affinity for rhythms of kinetic investiture. That is just speculation, though. WoBs spoilered for length:

Reddit user AugustDream posted this Q&A from GenCon:

On reflection, I've decided my objections aren't as substantial as I first thought. Blocking transformation for long-term enslavement (rather than immediate battlefield advantage) might actually match the epigraph after all. Reading it again, the epigraph makes it sound like Melishi wasn't making a strategy for battle. More like, "He was totally prepared to kill all those Voidbringers, but then he decided to try this crazy idea instead"--i.e. they had already won the war and just had a tedious day left of mopping up enemy resistance. At this point i still have some doubts about the accuracy of Gavilar's information, but I think he is definitely talking about what Melishi did.

Ah, I didn't think of that. Definitely plausible, and the most likely speaker to use the Rhythms. Her future sight could be allowing her to put all sorts of pieces into place. I wasn't considering her an actively involved participant, but that's only because we haven't seen her do anything on screen yet. I think so. No, the voice was "speaking to the Rhythms," which I think is the same way listeners will use the Rhythms when the speak.

Great question! Do you mind posting this again over on the GenCon thread in the events forum? More people will see it there. (I could quote your post there to share the WoB, but you ought to get the credit and upvotes.)

Good thought on Adrotagia. I agree that she's the best option at this point. As mentioned by @Extesian, we have confirmation of Venli's involvement. I'm wondering about that voice. My first suspicion was that Venli was already wearing an old form at that point and was manipulating things, but that doesn't actually make sense. If any of the Unmade did know of Gavilar's idiotic plan, I presume they would have been fully on board. Whoever was pulling strings (most likely the Heralds, given the Jasnah prologue) either knew about the Sons of Honor and wanted to stop the disaster they were planning, or had other goals entirely. (The conspiracist in me wants to point at Taravangian and say he was betraying Gavilar to further his own goals, but that idea has way too many holes in it, primarily the timing of the Diagram.) The Heralds are also more likely than anyone else to have access to and understanding of the Rhythms. As far as Venli is concerned, I now think it more likely that she acquired her first void form spren from Gavilar's sphere. Also, in addition to his apparent sensitivity to the Rhythms, this statement of Gavilar's betrays either dangerous ignorance and dangerous understanding: Note first that he says the Heralds are "in hiding," not that they are gone and need to return. How would he know that? Second, he knows about the listeners' ability to change forms, of which Dalinar et al had no knowledge in WoK or WoR. There are also pieces missing from his spren story. As seen in WoR, the Stormfather enables form changes, and he is very much not captured. Even if Gavilar is right about what happened, preventing transformation is a far cry from "ripping away spren" as proposed by @eveorjoy above. And while blocking transformations could very plausibly result in a population of slaveform listeners after a generation (assuming children are born without a bound spren), it certainly wouldn't do much in the middle of a war with Voidbringers. So (without further information to connect the dots) it can't be the same thing as Melishi's stratagem from the epigraphs, even though there is a connection just begging to made.

I recently re-read Slow Regard (along with both Day One and Day Two), and my opinion on this was a bit different after each reading. I'm not sure which way Rothfuss intended it to be read, but I think the ambiguity is at least partially intentional.

Are you going to read the sample chapters? (Almost everyone I've asked says yes, but there are a few brave souls waiting for release day.)

Welcome! I can sympathize with the sleep deprivation. Somehow all my self control disappears when there is the possibility of "one more chapter."

Welcome. So far I've only read the books, not listened to them. Do you have a favorite one to recommend the audio for?