Araris Valerian

1 hour ago, Aeoryi said:

Okay, I and a few others have been wondering, how do you even run a symmetrical factions? How does that work?

Here’s the link to my MR rules Link.

The idea is a bunch of missing information, along with players only dying when their entire faction is removed.

4 hours ago, CadCom said:

Was looking for one with several factions, each trying to be the last faction. Like houses. I remember one from several years ago where people were in a Mistborn House competing against other houses. Just can't find it. I'll look over the one you sent me though.

 

I posted rules for one a few pages back I think. I can’t link the rules right now. Elandera has run some anti-faction games “Master of the House” or something, which I think have similar design principles.

I’m happy to run my Reckoners faction game as long as I get 9 players. And of course, the more the merrier. It’s symmetric so I don’t think the committee will have too much of a fuss with the rules.

I guess we should see if we have someone ready to run a MR. It’s fine to fit CadCom in, but if start of the semester is his cutoff then we have a while. Of course, if we got on top of our game we could try and have a QF run during signups for the next MR as a possibility.

6 minutes ago, Mat said:

I’d say nah for outing RBM’s partner— if they’re v/v, the elims can snipe the aes sedai in the hopes of a double NK.

Well, sort of. Depends on which cycle the Aes Sedai is vulnerable. Not to mention the possibility of a blademaster. Not sure elims would want to risk a failed kill this early in the game.

2 minutes ago, Mat said:

Do we think the Forsaken's ability to make one of their weaves succeed trumps CadCom's weave? I kind of think it does, but I'll ping @The Unknown Ajah to weigh in: Specifically, TUA, I'm asking if the Circle of Frost stops the Forsaken from using Compulsion, if the Forsaken chooses Compulsion to automatically succeed.

Oh, my interpretation was that the Forsaken would just pass the die rolls, but not roleblocks. Can see why someone would look at it differently though.

Since water actions got blocked, there was no Compulsion. That means that if a Forsaken exists, it would have to be Aeternum or CadCom, unless someone (or better, multiple someones) can confirm that water weaves did get blocked.

I think if there isn’t a Forsaken, the elims would want to bluff one, to throw us off. In that world, Kas looks good (could have soothed a vote), as does CadCom (stopped any elims from soothing).

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

"hey, Araris hasn't played in over a month and I am not in favour of C1ing him"?

You know, I was going to jokingly say that you were defending me because this is the first game in a while that I’m not stuck IMing. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

@Araris Valerian Given the last iteration involved a Vorros/Devo - BM/Forsaken team and Devo and you 1v1ing in weaves, is there a reason you think this is not actually balanced? 2 channellers IMO gives the Elims free access to linking, which creates more problems depending on their stats, e.g. fireball. You could certainly argue TKN probably ensured their collective stats don't do this, but giving Elims free linking next to Forsaken auto-weave success still feels like a power upgrade to me I'm not confident would exist.

That is a valid point. I think a Forsaken/Myddraal teams would work. But it could also be high power on both sides, especially with the village only roles that exist.

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Cannot believe I am saying this to you of all people.

This is literally what the NK is for...c'mon...

Since when do SE Elims aggressively thread control. Hasn't happened since peak Aman and even Archer trends opportunist when Evil.

I totally agree about the NK. Though I think there are folks in this game that could run aggressive thread control if they wanted.

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

But it does mean as a result of Araris's call that we are going to play IKYK with the missing vote later on - Forsaken or framed?

Well, or at least we threaten to. It’s up to the folks left alive to decide whether it’s worth pursuing later. What we don’t want is to completely ignore the mechanic.

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Okay, so what are your conclusions?

I’d say I’m suspicious of Mat for his comment that he wasn’t defending CadCom, and for mentioning the extra life thing. CadCom’s statement wasn’t significant enough for me to sit out and listen when there was active discussion to engage with. Nobody else really commented in between.

1 hour ago, Aeoryi said:

Do you really townread Araris that much?

The question is, why doesn’t everyone else?

I’ll note that if I wanted to do “solve repression” I’d go for you or Mat or Kas or Stick… or I’d realize that tactic might be hopeless with the players in this game. Besides, role/rule analysis =/= solving, so I don’t know where you are coming from anyways.

Yeah, everyone should vote because the Forsaken’s vote gets canceled, so we can force the elims to use Compulsion if they have a Forsaken. If the Forsaken doesn’t use compulsion, we look for the missing vote to get a nice POE. Also, because vote manip exists, we should also aim for a 2 or 3-vote margin if it’s reasonable.

We refer to the vote as an “execution” or the “exe” now, yeah. So if you take the old terminology of lynching and swap in exe everywhere, it should match up pretty well with what we use now.

Who knows, maybe I did get that elim team-up with Kas that I've been waiting for.

27 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

This post just... doesn't make sense if you dissect it. 

I gave a reaction, which is different from giving interpretation/reasoning. Saying "CadCom pointed out thing X" followed by a vote on CadCom shows that I have an opinion, but it doesn't give my reasoning. Logically, the argument goes

P1: CadCom made some odd comments about specific roles

P2: Making odd comments about specific roles makes a person likely an elim

C1: CadCom is likely an elim

But I really just implied P2 without any justification, which was what I was interested in hearing from others (if you take my vote as a statement of the conclusion). Eventually I followed up with my justification for that part of the argument, the thing about a timeline to victory. I actually think a more plausible reason is just that elims are generally more concerned about extra lives than villagers.

27 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Votes Cadcom over being the third person to post and the first person to start thinking about the game really + Elim

I'm curious to hear why you think e!me would be more likely to do this than village me.

I'm also curious why you are certain that I'm elim but are not voting for me. Seems like something a Forsaken would do.

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Is there a reason we'd assume those roles are V!aligned? I seem to recall Vorros? whatever that dude's name was was Elim the last time. I think there was no Myderaal? AFAICT Amyrlin, Warder, and BM are all not alignment-guaranteed. Only our ta'averen are.

You’re right, there’s not much village guarantee. I lean toward there being a Forsaken, which would mean only one other role is elim. I also think the elims would have 2 channelers for balance’s sake.

My main memory of the last run of this game is trauma over knowing Devo was evil and then failing a long sequence of die rolls to kill her.

2 hours ago, Mat said:

Also. Is saying what they mean not, like, the whole point? This statement reads like you want other people to jump on things you notice so that they are more starkly in the wrong. You did vote CadCom though so /shrug

This is sort of right. I wanted to see other people’s reactions before giving my own, though I wasn’t planning on jumping on anyone. Personally, I think folks doing role analysis are doing it “honestly”, because it’s too easy to get caught emphasizing certain parts of the rules and doesn’t really have much benefit (as seen here, where I brought it up immediately). I do think that since Warder and Blademaster are defensive roles, it would be a bit more natural for an elim to have them in mind, and then to post something along those lines. In my experience elims requested like to work out a timeline for winning, and the presence/lack of extra lives and protects is very important for that sort of thing. It’s also probably a more natural assumption that Amyrlin and Forsaken are both in the game, since they are less generic than the other two.

57 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

At the same time I'm curious about your theory of the gap, @Araris Valerian. Intuitively I'd expect the Forsaken to be hyperaware of the existence of the Amrylin, since it's kinda hard to ignore a role you scan as.

That’s a good point. I’m just here to point out the contradictions, not to say what they mean.

2 hours ago, Mat said:

CadCom’s analysis seemed pretty standard to me, so I’d be inclined to vote Araris over anyone else here, but I’m going to actually read the rules myself before passing any real judgement.

Hold on, I just got through explaining why it wasn't standard. He called out Blademaster and Warden as unlikely while ignoring the Amyrlin (who similarly has a role that scans as her), all while not giving a satisfactory reason for the statement. It's a minor thing, but it still seems odd.

Edit:

1 hour ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

One where not even the people who Veted the rules understand the rules 

I think we understand the rules, but it's not really possible to succinctly sum them up.

1 hour ago, CadCom said:

Understood. What I mean is that with only 9 players, but 11 listed roles, we don't have all roles. Because certain roles appear as warders and blademasters with a scan already. 

So I understand that both of these statements are true, I just don't really get how they are related. I'll also note that something similar happens with the Amyrlin, which you didn't mention.

1 hour ago, Stick. said:

hi friends 

 

ive read the rules doc about three and a half times and i still don’t understand the mech

 

but maybe i am just stupid 

As the person that help vet the rules, I can sympathize . The gist is that most folks have a bunch of available actions depending on their elemental ratings, but they are inconsistent unless you Concentrate or Link.

Something really important to note is that the Forsaken cannot vote, but can guarantee a single weave to work. For this reason, absolutely everyone should vote every cycle, to force the elims to use Compulsion to hide this.

39 minutes ago, CadCom said:

Mechanically, I don't think we have any plain warders or blademasters. Because there's only 9 people, and some rolls appear as that to a role scan by the keeper. 

Though I suppose it is possible that one of the Lord characters is not in the game. 

I'm not sure why it would follow from the fact that the role scan isn't foolproof that there would be no warders/blademasters. Of course we should be wary about assuming any roles exist, and also about any assumptions of alignments of those roles. Still, seems like an odd conclusion, so I'll vote CadCom for now.

38 minutes ago, CadCom said:

I'm in, as CadCom, a farmer who mysteriously left his farm 4 years ago,, and finally decided to return, much to the surprise and concern of neighbors, who have no idea where he's been for the last 4 years. 

Welcome back! Nice to see an old face again.

2 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

I have a Quick fix setup that I have tested on a separate site (and adapted for SE):

  Hide contents

QF: 70-80

Ties kill no one; majority execution each cycle, all actions happen simultaneously (although killing actions happen first)

Odium's forces have taken over the very center of Dalinar's rule: Urithiru. Although things are looking poor for the humans who live there, the singers there have been bestowed by new ideas unearthed in the city. Perhaps this group of singers, fused, and radiants can escape the terrifying gravity of Odium?

Factions: Odium-aligned are the standard Elim faction with a mandatory factional kill. They win if they achieve parity with the non-odium aligned. If they fail to submit a target for their factional kill, a target will be chosen at random for them.

Non-odium aligned are the standard village/town faction. They win when all the odium aligned players are dead. 

Roles:

Singer: standard vanilla villager.

Knight Radiant: The knight radiant will announce the role of a player of their choice publicly when they die. The knight radiant must submit their target in advance, and the kill will take effect immediately 

Fused: The fused kills a player of their choosing upon their death, no matter how it may occur. The fused must submit their target in advance, and the kill will take effect immediately. If no target is submitted when the fused dies, a random one will be chosen. A fused that is odium aligned that does not submit a target when they die will have a random target chosen for them out of all remaining non-odium aligned players.

Midnight mother: Always Odium-aligned. Can target a player that is not Odium-aligned each cycle. If the player has a radiant or fused role, the midnight mother will gain a similar ability. If the midnight mother targets a Radiant, they will receive a single use role scanner ability. If the midnight mother targets a Fused, they will receive a single-use kill that can be used alongside the faction kill. If the midnight mother targets a vanilla, they will have to wait another cycle before they can attempt to mimick another player's ability. If they target Sja-anat, nothing happens.

Sja-anat: Can enlighten the spren of a player, making their role non-functional if they have one. This ability can not be used on consecutive cycles, and does not work on the midnight mother. 

Other stuff:

There may be multiple radiants or fused in a single game, and they may be aligned with either faction. There will only be one sja-anat, but they may be aligned with either faction. There is only one midnight mother, and it is guaranteed to be in the game.

Action slots do not exist for this game. Any player can make any number of different actions a cycle.

In the event that two villagers and one Elim remain, and a villager fused gets voted out but revenge kills the last odium supporter, the game is called as a draw.

An odium supporter without a role will have their role be revealed the same as a non-odium supporter without a role.

A singer is not informed if they were targeted by sja-anat, although radiants and fused will be informed that they have lost their role. A player that loses their role will flip as a singer, and will be revealed to be a singer if they are radiant revealed.

Or a tldr:

  Hide contents

There are four types of roles in the game. The following two can occur in any quantity for any alignment:

Radiant: reveals a person's role publicly upon the death of the radiant

Fused: kills a player upon the death of the fused.

The following roles are limited to one player each:

Sja-anat: removes a target's role on non-consecutive cycles. Does not work on midnight mother.

Midnight mother: can target a player to gain a similar ability to the role they have, if any. If they target a vanilla, they have to wait a cycle to use the ability again. Is always elim-aligned. 

Elim faction wins at parity. Factional and fused kills are mandatory. Ties kill no one.

Thoughts?

Seems pretty interesting (and chaotic, which is probably good in a QF). I think you've got the wrong wording on the Knight Radiant. 

What is the intended player count here?

Also, what's the motivation behind having all of the kills mandatory, but not the exe? Just curious.

On a completely unrelated note, I was rereading Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne and thought that leaches could be a cool role/mechanic to design a game around. In the books, a leach draws their power from something in their vicinity (examples are iron, strong emotions, sunlight, etc.), and this source is the leach's "well". The implementation I was thinking of would be to have "wells" represented by the usage of a word in the thread. So if Kas has "stone" as his well, then each instance of the word "stone" in the thread for a given turn enables him to take more powerful actions. The hitch would be that if someone guesses your well, they can roleblock you. There would need to be some restriction to avoid people just dumping a bunch of text, so I think only counting words that show up in RP would work. My gut says that this sort of thing would probably be suited for a faction game, or a FFA one.

52 minutes ago, The Unknown Ajah said:

@Faerie Braids

@Experience

@DrakeMarshall

You were all either signed up or spectators before. How do current circumstances look? If all of you and all of the maybes can in fact join, we will have enough. 

The game can really start whenever, but I would suggest essentially a week from today, next Sunday. The new rollover would be 9:30 AM Mountain Time. 

Current maybes as far as I can tell are @Mat, @Kasimir, and @Araris Valerian. Does that start time and rollover work? If we get everyone in this post on board, we'll have ten. I'll try to get a message out on Discord to make up if any of you can't. 

Current yeses are: Aet, Aeo, RBM, Stick,

My schedule is open for a while, so don’t worry about me.

I think @Elandera might be willing/able to IM, in which case I will play.

I posted a sketch of these rules back a bit, but they've been fleshed out a lot more. I'm definitely interested in feedback, since I think I'll run this as my next LG.

Link to doc

On 5/10/2024 at 4:12 PM, The Unknown Ajah said:

I'd like to do a show of hands sorta thingy with every signed up to play or spectate to see who's up for that one or a different ruleset more designed for low player counts.

That would also give me a bit of time to make sure I can run a game on my current schedule. 

Okay, I'll reopen the LG 100 thread and you can use that to get a feel for player counts. You can also ask around on Discord and see what people feel up for.