Aether

It could be assumed that whatever triggered the resurgence of Surgebinding would have happened when they were first exploring the Shattered Plains, which is around the time that the Death Chants started as well. This again would presumably have been some time before the assassination of Gavilar, leaving Jasnah a reasonable amount of time to attract a Spren.

Except that Shardplate used for farming is just plainly more awesomer and thus presumably more likely (well, not really). But I've been reduced to making this my main defending point now in several threads, so time for me to shut up until I can actually start contributing properly again. EDIT: Added the part in bold formatting.

Funniest line in this thread. Wait, whence did we get this second one`? Geranid and Ashin didn't really give the impression that the ardents are able to visit Shadesmar nowadays. With Spanreeds, it would be fairly simple to just ask some ardents who's been there, yet Ashin was intending to "read" about it. Presumably, the ardents are aware of the existence of the Three Realms (or at the very least the Physical and Cognitive one=, but have lost the knowledge on how to get there. Wait, what random interlude dude? In tWoK? Or are you referring to a Words of Radiance Interlude? WHERE???? Also, as has been hinted at, but not stated directly, it is a possibility that there is actually two different kinds of fabrials - one necessitating the capture of a Spren (modern fabrials would fall into this category) and one of unknown origin (Shards and probably Soulcasters would fall into this category). The commonality between these two is that both are heavily invested objects that are able to mimic the abilities of Surgebinding, the difference being the source of this investiture. This could potentially explain why (presumably) only Radiants/Surgebinders had access to fabrials prior to the Recreance, since the modern way of making fabrials by capturing Spren potentially wasn't know back then, and that only people able to access Investiture could use an power the ancient type of fabrials to full extent. EDIT: exchanged "from where" with "whence" because the latter is more awesomer.

Just popping by for a quick note: It is very unlikely that Shallan will recognize the Shards, as she would most likely be ignorant of the fact that Heleran was in possession of them if he was indeed the Veden Shardbearer. Finding the Soulcaster was already a huge surprise and if her brothers are unaware of Shallan's own Shardblade (at least that's the impression I got from their conversations through Spanreed and Nan Balat's chapter), how would they know about these Shards, much less being able to recognize them on sight?

Good catch. But allowing myself to reiterate, I still find it unlikely, I just cannot (nor will not) rule it out. 'Twould be kind of awesome if it turned out to be at least partially true.

I might not have been very eloquent, but I was severely impressed by your art. Up-voting your posts on this thread is just an easy way of showing my appreciation. Keep up the good work !

Highstorms are presumably not the only form of Investiture on Roshar.

I don't think anything can measure up to tWoK. I stumbled upon it mostly by accident and was just completely knocked back (quite literally. I didn't get up from the sofa for a whole day) by the depth, the learning curve, the world of Roshar and the characters. Sanderson has come a long way since Mistborn, and those books were already very good. You should try Elantris and Warbreaker at some point too. I find those two to be a bit more... hmm... light than his other books, but they're still worth the read (like everyone else, including me, you'll fall head over heels in love with Lightsong from Warbreaker). Also, it gives you more information and background-story of the "meta-story" that is the Cosmere.

Just to clarify my position ons this, I do not really support the hypotheses I'm defending here, just pointing out the strengths, weaknesses and possible reasoning behind them. I'd be more inclined to actually support an idea akin to what Gloom suggests in the previous post. But Gloom, you sure? It seems reasonable to suggest that there might not have been any Surgebinders anywhere prior to Gavilar's exploration of the Shattered Plains, but no Investiture at all?

Actually, if there is one idea here that isn't completely ludicrous, it is the idea that they use Shardplates (and not Blades) for farming. It is a long shot for which we do not have much info, but to dismiss it on the count that they consider Stormlight holy is rather unfair. Remember that farming is considered a holy task, and use of Stormlight in such a holy pursuit would fit. IIRC, Szeth didn't seem to find the use of Stormlight in itself profane, but the use of it for such mundane and trivial tasks such as lighting and decoration (plus his own use for lashings). Now, again, plausible, not likely. But we have been reduced to spit-balling here.

I didn't think of the Growth surge (though I don't think the "[Loving, ]Healing" would fit Shinovar within Natans' hypothesis. And good points on "adding". But there is still the problem of the lack of Highstorms in Shinovar (even though I myself have argued that this might at best only present a logistical challenge).

I might be more inclined to find it plausible presented as this. I still have my doubts, though. Something is going on in Shinovar - of that I am sure - but I don't think it is quite so straightforward for the various reasons presented above, And an upvote for the fellow FMA fan too!

Serious to the point of inanity - is it not obvious?

Actually, Soulcasting has nothing to do with adding, but with changing. "To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange". From Fullmetal Alchemist, but works here too, since Soulcasting is about changing a quantity of something of something into something else, but of equal mass (though not necessarily equal volume). Sanderson do like to play with concepts, but I doubt he would twist meanings like what you have to do to derive "he who adds" from Soulcasting. Now, this is an interesting thought, especially since the Silver Kingdoms were supposed to be set up in a way that gave different responsibilities of governing to different kingdoms. The old Alethela, for example, was the one responsible for defending the Realm, and others would be responsible for courts of law, scholarship, trade (or something) etc. Alethela would be "[Leading, ]Protecting" in your scenario, btw, not "Honour". They would all be different aspects of Honour. Shinkaknish (the equivalent of Shinovar during the Silver Kingdoms Epoch) could very well have been representing "[Creative, ]Honest[y]", but it is a bit contrived to attribute Soulcasting to the farmers of Shinovar (as stated above) because of this.

Kudos for taking the challenge, but I'm not sure this is very accurate information. It is correct that they do not (or at least prefer not to) use mined from stone, but prefer to use metal that was Soulcast from offals. They do not seem able to do this themselves, however, since Thresh (the Shin from the interlude) clearly has to trade with a foreigner to get it. And we have no indication that they always tells the truth, but merely that they respect people that are honest. They might generally prefer to always or at least mostly tell the truth, but it seems ludicrous to extrapolate a culture wide inability to tell a lie from the Rysn-chapter. And as other people have already indicated, there are no Highstorms in Shinovar, because the area is shielded by an high and enclosing mountain range (the Misted Mountains, lol). They might of course get Stormlight from outside of the area, but then there is the fact that Rysn do not see Spren anywhere - it does indeed seem like there are no Spren at all in Shinovar. So I think we can quite assuredly debunk the theory that they bond with Cryptics or any other type of Spren (at least Shin confined to Shinovar), and thus the theory that Szeth's place as a Truthless results from a failed bonding process with this (or any) type of Spren.

WOAH! This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules?? Your fan-art... I think I'll just upvote all of your post on this thread now.... I mean, seriously?!

Welcome. And do not despair over the waiting time. Sanderson is insanely more productive than most other authors, so the delays between future books will not be so bad (the long period between book 1 and 2 is somewhat of an exception). Be glad he's not George R. R. Martin and read Mistborn in the mean time (not as good as tWoK, but close).

You should. They are HORRIBLE; do not misunderstand me, but there is a king of... poetic madness to those books. Surprisingly amusing to read if you do t more to study the author's way of writing than actually immersing yourself in the books. For example, she uses the word "scintillating" WAY too often in the first book, and compares Edward's body to that of a Greek god so many times I almost feel bad for her. It is tragically and horribly amusingly bad! Other than that, welcome!

I second that motion!

Oh, but it is all about the intent guiding my reasoning. When theorycrafting in earnest, this would indeed be the case, but when it is so much more amusing to blatantly ignore my own precepts, then fun takes over and permits me to say whatever the heck I want. Besides, if I permit myself to be utterly pedantic, then my suggestion can be claimed to have been aimed at showing how little that oath of Moash actually tells us. I do not actually claim that it is so, only indicate how feeble any claim derived from that particular quote would be. EDIT: grammar

Sure, but it fits well enough into BS's magic systems that it could be reasonable to assume it is so.

That would only pose a logistical problem, since there are Highstorms in the areas around Shinovar. If were already assuming that they use the Plates for "holy purposes", then assuming that they collect Stormlight in Spheres stored outside of Shinovar during Highstorms and send them into Shinovar for farming usage would not be too much of a stretch.

Didn't Ashir suggest imprecise measurements would lock them, but give them a bit of leeway to change parameters within certain limits? Given how most of BS's magic systems works, I think it reasonable to assume it is based on intent rather than the act of measurement itself. So making an estimation would give the Spren leeway to vary around that figure. For example, measuring it to be around 3 inches long would lock it to be approximately 3 inches long, but it would still be able to shift closer to 4 than to 2 and the other way around.

It seems to be suggested quite directly in the book that his bond to the Nightwatcher / Cultivation is independent of his later visions. Dalinar has claimed to know what both his boon and curse is, and I thus do not think it could be the origin of this particular voice. Other than that, I agree, I too have been thinking that the memory loss could be the boon and not the curse, though frankly, it can only be a mere baseless assumption at this point. A good one though.

Shard of Shame. Which could have some interesting implications for the magic system.