Comatose

I agree with pretty much everything you pointed out here. I really love unrequited love stories, and I think this one would have some interesting twists and turns to keep it from falling into tropes. I can see the plotline of Adolin coming to terms with his sexuality and his love and respect for Shallan being a really interesting plot line to follow. I would separate, I think, his desire to be a perfect prince (which he gets away from in OB) with his desire to be perfectly masculine and live up to his father. With Evi raising Adolin and Renarin to be more sensitive and emotionally intelligent than your average Alethi male, I'm sure Adolin faced a lot of pressure to 'man up' as a child. Masculine arts, such as dueling, seem to have come easily to him, but he lacks the temperament of 'role models' like Gavilar, Sadeas, and the Blackthorn. Taking this a step further, now I am thinking about Adolin's shame over Dalinar's loss of reputation in WoK (in our scenario) would come partially from the internal pressure he feels to fit in. After trying for so long to fit in by emulating his father, watching Dalinar become the odd man out could have been really difficult for him. I agree 100% on the three way relationship not being the way to go here. I would love if Brandon explored a poly relationship at some point, but personally I do not like the idea of A-S-K being that relationship. I was referring to Adolin and Kaladin when I said Brandon has pretty much written a queer viewpoint relationship (you may have realized that but I wasn't certain from your response and wanted to make sure). On Drehy - I felt uncomfortable with the discussion of masculinity and same-sex attraction, but in the end I decided I liked it because it made me feel uncomfortable. While problematic, these conversations are ones that happen all the time in real life, and it made sense for the Bridgemen who, despite their acceptance of Drehy, might not be familiar with the views of a minority group. It definitely made me squirm in my seat reading it though, so I had to consider it really carefully and determine whether the writing was making me uncomfortable because it was forced or poorly done, or whether the situation was merely being accurately depicted as awkward. I had the same thought about a highly gendered society like Alethkar's stance on sexuality, but I think the greek comparison works well. While it seems gay men in Alethkar aren't expected to marry (at least darkeyes ones aren't - Adolin may have been expected to), as in Ancient Greece, it seems men with a sexual preference for other men are somewhat accepted so long as they continue to conform to traditionally masculine roles. What's interesting about this set up is that although couples like Drehy and Dru (or Adolin and... whoever) do not face much direct discrimination from other people, they would still be facing a great deal of systemic discrimination, in that the culture of Alethkar makes their lives more difficult because of their sexual orientation. I can totally see gay and lesbian couples facing all kinds of disadvantages because they lack someone of the other gender to fulfill certain duties and roles. I'll bet that same sex couples are sometimes treated as 'single' for some purposes (hiring a woman to read and write, as you suggested, or a man to perform physical labour, where normally one's spouse might). I also agree that a platonic relationship can be just as or more satisfying than a romantic one. In fact, I think romance is often over done in books, and that there should be more where platonic relationships are highlighted as compelling. That being said, my preference would be for greater representation of opposite sex platonic relationships and more romantic queer relationships, as things tend to skew the other way. I'm really hoping Kaladin/Shallan develop a great friendship going forward, since I feel that a good example of a man and a woman being friends with a deep and complex relationship would be really cool to read.

That is a great compilation of moments and analysis Grey. Queering Adolin and Kaladin's relationship in this way, it makes me wonder if Brandon does not give himself enough credit about his ability to write a same-sex attracted viewpoint character. I mean, with a few changes, he basically has written what could be a same-sex relationship between viewpoint characters already, and one that would be compelling and believable. If he puts what he is doing with Adolin and Kaladin here (perhaps unintentionally) into practice when writing a canonically queer character, I think he would do very well with it, personally. On the other hand, part of me does worry that trying too hard to write a queer character viewpoint might interfere with what happened organically for Kaladin and Adolin. Usually Brandon is really good at proving worries of this type unfounded for me, but it is still a concern I carry. EDIT: As an afterthought, based on the recent moderation discussion, I did want to make it clear in case it was not already that I am speaking on my personally held views, and not those of the staff team. I feel fairly comfortable in doing this because this topic is fairly subjective, for the most part I have been speaking from personal experiences or interpretations, and it is not heated or contentious. I do note, however, that we have not had many dissenting views about the Kadolin relationship put forward. It could be this is because of the way the OP was framed, but I did want to make it clear that I am responding to this thread because I am enthusiastic about it, and not out of a desire to control the narrative. I hope people with views that contradict mine do feel comfortable posting them here, keeping in mind the spirit of the OP and the general expectations of respectful discourse.

Good point! My favourite Adolin ship, Padolin (mostly because it involves my two favourite characters) was basically confirmed by Pattern, so I will stick with that for now, haha. But maybe I will keep a candle lit for Kadolin, or Adolin/Another Guy, going forward. That brings up another dilemma. I love Shallan to pieces, and now if I want to ship Adolin with anyone else I have to hope for the failure of her marriage. Yikes!

To be fair, Brandon has also said that he reserves the right to change his mind on WoBs and only the books are canon. I don’t think that makes it any more likely that he will explore this aspect of Adolin’s character. He’s had a lot of this series planned for a long time, and that would be a pretty major change. So some hope, but not too much haha. In an AU, a Drehy friendship would be a really interesting line to follow. If I go along with the idea, I’d see Adolin as being unaware of his sexuality at this point, so meeting and finding commonality with other same sex attracted folks would be a good way for him to start building self-awareness. I do have to be careful though. Adolin is my #1 Cosmere Crush, so I could easily become too attached to a gay Adolin fanon.

It’s interesting reading this because my husband just finished OB and came to an almost identical conclusion. I got subtext definitely, but I’m still a Shadolin supporter. For my husband, the subtext actually ruined Shadolin for him and he finds the relationship completely unbelievable. He still reads Kaladin as straight, but reads Adolin as exclusively or predominately gay, and sees Kadolin as a sort of wrong timing/unrequited love narrative. I definitely love them as both a romantic couple and as friends. I agree that the subtext here is especially heavy (and I think readers of queer relationships are trained to look for subtext since queer relationships are often not openly acknowledged). In my personal view, even though I love Shadolin, on further reflection I think that Kadolin is a real missed opportunity for Brandon and I wonder if he realizes the extent of the subtext he put in. On the fashion point, I don’t think it has to be a stereotype. Gay men who live in the closet, either knowingly or unknowingly, are often hyper aware of how they are perceived and what codes signals of their identity they are giving off. If Adolin were gay, it would make sense for him to be hyper aware of his appearance in my opinion. Even though Alethkar is more relaxed, I think as a prince it would make sense that he remains sensitive about people’s perception with him. I love the point about avoiding hetero intimacy through serial dating. My husband raised it as well and I hadn’t considered it before. Great analysis

Don’t worry I have been keeping up with the thread. I read your original suggestion but misunderstood your last post to mean that a new social thread would be fine. My reason for the repetition is only for clarity, and to catch misunderstandings like the one you just caught, as this thread has not been without contention. I understand that can be annoying though. Please don’t feel obligated to keep responding if it is an annoyance. I also did not mean to imply your idea was the only one You were just one of the only people responding at this point, and It’s tough to discuss other ideas when they are not there The staff will be considering all of this feedback as we proceed but I didn’t mean to imply we were negotiating an agreement (must be my lawyer training getting the better of me). All I wanted to check is if our proposed solution addressed your concerns (and the concerns of others). Thanks for the clarification and for the input!

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to previous discussions in ASK. So the conversations you are worried about losing are future community discussions that would have taken place in ASK if it were not closed? Keeping character items in threads and having a group for community chats was what I was trying to suggest, so it seems we are in agreement? So, to clarify (and please do correct me if I am still not understanding): (1) You want to continue discussing characters in the appropriate book subforums; (2) You want a separate space (in Social Groups) where the community aspect of ASK can continue. The discussions you were concerned about losing were future discussions among community members, not previous ASK discussions, which will remain where they are. If that is the case, then I hope that the points that Chaos proposed, with the addition of a Social Group thread for the ASK community, will address the concerns? Here they are for reference: On the community point, any member is free to start a thread in the Social Groups area. If there is enough interest, I would also be happy to assist with an introductory post. Some things to consider going forward though would be: (1) What does membership in the group look like, and what could you put into a introduction post on the group to assist new members in determining if they would like to join; and (2) How can the group be structured to maintain and strengthen the existing community while being open and inviting to new members? I am also curious about what other people who have expressed their dissatisfaction with the ASK closing think about a community thread for social discussion, what one should look like, and if they think it will be useful. It takes multiple people to make a community, so it would be good to get as much input as possible before starting it. If this is something people want to discuss further, I would suggest making a brainstorming topic in the Social Group section, and go from there, and then continue to address any further concerns about site moderation here (if there are any still outstanding which have not been addressed yet).

I think what firstRainbowRose is getting at is that for now the place to keep those individual discussions going is in new, more topic specific threads. Our hope is that the conversation in each will be more effective and thorough if it is spread out instead of being shoved together. Take insert_anagram_here's point: I know people felt pressured to discuss everything relating to Shallan, Kaladin and Adolin in ASK, but that is not really the way things have worked historically, and going forward the staff is committed to encouraging multiple topics and discouraging concentration like this. If you look at other book forums, topics like "Shipping", "Shallan's Split Personalities", "Adolin's Motiviation" and "Kaladin's Multi-Coloured Stone Symbolism" would normally all be separate topics. Discussing them all at once makes it difficult to get through a discussion, and makes it difficult for later users to find what they are looking for later, since instead of being separated into separate topics, it's all lumped together in a 97 page conglomeration. I may have missed others, but my understanding is that, aside from general book reaction threads, mega threads dealing with all facets of characterization for three characters is somewhat unique. If you want those conversations to continue, the staff would encourage you to start posting about whatever conversation you want to continue, and we would be supportive of that and on the look-out for people trying to shut down such discussions. If you look at the OB sub-forum now, there are already character threads about Jasnah, Navani, and a Shallan character analysis. We want to encourage the development of more specific character discussion topics. Character discussion has always been one of my favourite things to read on the site (though I do enjoy theories too), but I know I probably missed a lot in ASK just because of how much was going on at once. The beauty of the Forums is that, even though conversation in all threads dies down eventually, those conversations are never lost. You can always go back and reread old topics. I still go back to the TWG archives and look up old posts from when I was first starting out in the fandom. Will they move on to lower pages? Yes, but that's the way of forums. Hopefully having separate topics will make them easier to find later on, and as you discuss further, you are always free to link back to previous posts from the ASK thread and build the discussion. From my perspective (feel free to disagree) continuing to have everything in one mega-thread makes individual conversations more difficult to find. My suggestion about the community forum was meant to address the points raised by some that a distinct community was forming in ASK and that closing the thread took that community space away. ASK was a discussion thread, and in my opinion it should remain where it is so users who want to go back and read it can find it. Going forward, what my suggestion was is that any character discussion continues on the main book boards, but that any 'community chats' that would have occured in ASK before it was closed could be continued there, if that is something people want or are interested in. If you check out the Reckoners RP, they handled this by having RP Threads for RP and "Question" threads for general chatting. For the most part, a lot of 'chat' now seems to occur on Discord, but I understand that Discord is not always that welcoming for people, so the Community Forums may be able to fill that void? Again, it was only a suggestion from someone who was not a part of the "ASK Community". I hope that clarification helps, and feel free to let me know if anything doesn't make sense and how you folks feel about that. @Vissy, if my explanation is not addressing your concern about losing previous discussion, would you mind clarifying why you feel the conversation will be lost, and what specifically you are worried about?

Wow, this thread is hot. I have been composing a post since I got home today and have not been able to keep up. To start off (and at the risk of being so meta as to moderate a thread about thread moderation) I would like to remind everyone that the focus of this thread is recognizing and responding to concerns about site moderation. Concerns about individual members who are not staff can be addressed through private discussions if the members are comfortable, or through the usual PM/Report process with staff that we are currently discussing. I understand that people got on to this subject organically, but think there are better ways to resolve issues with personal behavior than here. Now on to the subject of the thread. Thank-you everyone for the time and effort that has been put into these posts, and for taking the plunge to bring these criticisms to light. I know that some of this conversation has been uncomfortable and frustrating, but I think that only highlights how necessary it is, and thank people for being vulnerable here. I think it’s really cool and all of these posts have made me feel very lucky to be a part of this community, even though I do not post much. In the interests of moving this discussion forward I thought I would take a brief moment to summarize some of the key points. I will be omitting items I feel like have been sufficiently discussed/dealt with and will be focusing on the discussion going forward, but that should not be the end of things, and discussions I would love for points not in this summary to continue to be discussed. Please note that my intent is as stated: to summarize, and so if I leave your point out it is not an intentional move on my part to discourage you to continue to raise it. Please feel free to highlight any important omissions. One of the breakdowns in communication I’ve been witnessing is the ever tricky distinction between explanations and excuses. Party A offers concern. Party B feels they need to explain where they are coming from to give context and offers explanation. Party A then feels like their concern is not heard and that Party B is offering excuses. In what I hope is a helpful way, I’ve tried to highlight concerns raised by members, explanations offered by staff, and suggestions for further discussion. To be clear, the explanations are not meant to excuse staff conduct or to dismiss concerns, but to provide context. My hope is that, in light of context, our suggested steps forward can help address those concerns which up until now have been felt to be unheard. Shardcast Concern - The panel failed to provide adequate coverage and support for the positives of Kaladin and Shallan’s romantic pairing and adequate critique of Adolin and Shallan’s relationship, leading to supporters of Kaladin and Shallan feeling like the ‘official Shard view” was against them and that their voice was less legitimate. Context/Explanation - Some may have noticed, but in order to provide more regular content, we are shaking things up by rotating through different casters based on availability and interest. The ASK Shardcast was my first one, and I did a lot of outlining on it, so flaws are probably my fault and I take full responsibility. As Chaos said, the fact that the panel was biased came about because of a mixture of who was interested and who was available. I think as a group we did not recognize how much strong discourse on all sides was needed for this discussion. The circumstances surrounding the creation of the cast is definitely not an excuse. I know we all appreciate the opportunity to make the content we are providing better, so thank-you for the feedback. Points For Further Discussion - In the future, we need to do better than just identifying bias when discussing divisive issue like this one. We as content providers obviously failed to recognize the importance of this debate for our audience, and in the future we should make efforts to make sure differing views are better represented on contentious issues. Note - One small aside: @insert_anagram_here , I wanted to offer a personal apology to you. In an effort to add some substance to our discussion of Kaladin and Shallan’s relationship, I quoted your post from the thread. I thought the points you raised were really interesting and thought-provoking, and was hoping to use them to provide some support for the Kaladin and Shallan pairing. I hindsight, I realize that having your words used, and then remarked upon, without an opportunity to immediately respond, would have been very frustrating, and I’m sorry I put you through that, especially without consulting you first. Closing ASK Thread Concern - Closing the ASK Thread (a) sent a message that certain opinions and interests were not welcome on the shard and (b) destroyed a space that a subset of the larger fan community used as their primary place for communicating. Context/Explanation - As others have stated, this was not intended to have the effect that it did. We as a staff deliberated extensively for a long period of time on what to do about this thread and the large volume of reports that were generated as a result of it. In the end, our concern over members who said things about the thread made them feel unsafe or that it made them feel the Shard was ‘toxic,’ as well as the burgeoning of a too-busy thread with too many topics for really productive discussion were the contributing factors in our choice to close it. While we came to a decision, the group was very much divided, and it was not easy for any of us. Dealing with conflict is tough, and every staff who has posted thus far has admitted this one could have gone better. We are definitely committed to improving how we handle similar issues in the future. Points for Further Discussion - We have talked a little about options for keeping quality character discussions going (character subforums / topic specific threads), and I hope that conversation continues, but from my read of things the point that has not been addressed is how the ASK became an important community space, and that (if I’m understanding correctly) members feel displaced now that it is closed. I understand that opening new threads will not necessarily assist in the community concern, so I’m curious about what the users who were/are members of the ‘ASK Community’ for lack of a better term feel would be a suitable replacement/solution? Subcultures and new relationships are an exciting part of forum communities, and are absolutely something the staff want to facilitate. One thought I had was using the “Social Groups, Clans, And Guilds” sub forum to continue the community aspect of the ASK thread, and then allow discussions to continue in more specific topics (the more character topics the better in my opinion!), but since I was not a member of the community, that suggestion is obviously only as good as the endorsements it receives so I’d like to hear what people have to say. Moderation Practices Generally Concerns - From reading this thread, my understanding is that the two major concerns being raised about moderation practices generally are (a) that the Staff is heavy handed when moderating certain less familiar members, and unfairly lax or informal with older users and friends, and (b) that Staff opinions in regular discussions receive preferential treatment (either through excessive moderation of opposing views, or through discouraging debate through sheer force of reputation). Explanation/Context - Previous posters have done a pretty good job of providing their opinions and background information on this one, and since it is fairly person specific, I will try to do my best to pull out general points. Generally, silencing debate has never been the intent of the staff. However, that does not mean that certain actions we take do not unintentionally give that impression, so I am glad that members had the courage to raise the issue and generate discussion. I think we as staff take a lot of pride in what we do here, and so it is difficult not to take critiques of this kind personally. Critiquing the job we are doing as moderators, for better or worse, is personal for us. The best we can do is deal with the discomfort, communicate our emotions in positive or useful ways, and try to come up with effective solutions. We should focus on those that try to limit character discussion by others, rather than those that were trying to discuss characters, got offended and reacted badly. In too many cases we dealt the results and not cause of problems. One the point of further moderation - we already do a great deal of moderation that likely isn’t noticed because, for better or worse, we do it privately. There is always room to improve. It is also important to acknowledge that we are only human and we only have so much time in a day. We are not omniscient and omnipresent, and we cannot micromanage every aspect of the forums. Reports are a way of directing our attention to areas that need it. If you have other suggestions for how we can make it easier to report or to PM staff, please let us know. We do strive to being active with our moderation, but we can only do so much (I know this is getting excuse-ish, but my intention is just to recognize the reality). It is important to remember that as a staff we have a responsibility to the entire community. That means engaging in a balancing act when interests of different segments of the community come into conflict. We are always open to discuss new and better ways to handle things, but things must continued to be balanced and handled. As part of their participation in a wider community, it is important that members accept that things might not always be done to their liking. It is equally important that we as staff strive to make sure people feel heard and acknowledged, even when their suggestions or desires are not acted upon in the way they wished. Points for Further Discussion - We need to find balance between public scolding and dealing with people via PM. Some public guidelines about it would be nice. Public statements about conduct are useful for educating the community on standards, and to be transparent, but we all agree they should be handled with care. Not mentioning names in public warnings is a good idea that we can work with. Staff have always and will continue to be careful about how we present ourselves and the words we choose. We acknowledge and recognize that we do not always meet this standard, but I want to assure you guys that this is definitely a standard we hold ourselves to. Staff members participating in regular discussions need to be aware, that their staff badge acts as a megaphone. Everything they write is just “louder” than what others say. _______________ This discussion is going to be difficult no matter how we deal with it, but I do think it is a useful conversation and hope it continues. By virtue of our power and position, I understand that members are going to be intimidated to bring this kind of critique forward. From the staff perspective, answering these critiques is going to require us to be vulnerable and acknowledge some shortcomings that are uncomfortable. I do not have specific points for this discussion, but I would just like to encourage everyone to remember that we are all here out of a mutual desire to talk about Brandon’s books, that we are all human, and that wrongness can be identified and addressed with kindness. With the goal of finding a resolution that people can live with, we are, hopefully, all on the same side. I know a lot of staff have already weighed in on this, so I hope that the usefulness at this post will outweigh the negative impact of me adding yet another staff voice. To conclude, continuing to point out problems or issues is useful to a point, but it can also get in the way of resolution and outcomes. I hope that was helpful and not a total waste of text. Thank you again to everyone who is participating, and please remember to try to focus on what we can do to resolve the issues.

Some religions lasted a few centuries into TFE (can’t recall if it’s specifically mentioned when Dadarah was wiped out) but I agree the Scadrial variant likely came first regardless for the reasons explained above. The most likely explanation is they are unrelated except as ideas Brandon liked. Another possible explanation is that they were inspired by the same root religion, if worldhoppers are involved.

Unless... (Kaymyth makes the best crocheted Porgs!)

New epic idea: Can use baked goods as listening devices within a certain range, making "cupcakes hear" a good reminder. "Dude, stop eating that cupcake! The Reckoners just filled me in on their top secret plan" "Ssssshhh! Shut up! Cupcakes hear!"

That seems like a good order to me (though I was going off memory without checking the books). Since the books themselves aren't 100% synced time wise in between viewpoints, the effect shouldn't be ruined if some bits are slightly out of order. Cool idea. I'd like to try it too. It would be fun to do a whole Cosmere reread and fit all the short stories and stuff in. The real question is where to fit in Allomancer Jak

Agreed to everything said here and more. 10/10 would RP with you guys again! How great is it that the Question we most likely will end on is number 20? Love the round number.

Great post Blackhoof! The fight scene was really fun, and I like how you brought some of our heroes together.

I tried to leave things open since they are @Blaze1616‘s characters. If Blaze is not around or gives permission, I’m fine with you using them however you wish.

I’m fine to do a Rainmaker reaction if need be. Would anything further be needed from me?

Kameron Hurley does some really cool thing with gender in different cultures in her Worldbreaker Saga (two books out, one forthcoming). She's got societies with four genders, one with three where masters of slaves choose their slaves' gender, and a character who shifts between genders periodically. If people are writing books involving different gender systems, I'd definitely recommend it as an example.

Let me know if you want to workshop anything Voidus! I left things vague when it comes to the actual destruction, so feel free to fill in the blanks. Euphoria (through RM), would involve Cornucopia in the destruction (if you want), and then you can decide where Cornucopia goes from there.

OOC: I am posting the final scene of What Happened in Corvallis, along with a short summary to get people caught up with what was going to happen. People are still welcome to post here, and fill in what their characters were doing during the five-ish days of the Corvallis story, but I will not be checking for continuity or approving characters anymore. People are also free to post summaries like I am doing, if they just want to share what they had planned but don't feel like writing. In the summary, I'll mention a few plots that were just ideas in my brain, which may have changed or evolved as I consulted and wrote with the other players, so keep in mind that their 'canonocity' will be dependent on the approval of the players involved. Feel free to use some of the events referenced as jumping off points if you want. Writing these characters and creating these stories with everyone has been a real privilege, and I thank everyone who contributed their time and talents. Hopefully I will see you all around. - Comatose SUMMARY Three Days Later I failed. Euphoria lay back on her bed, feeling the sudden wave of exhaustion rush over her. She'd barely slept in the last few days, and when she had Insight had haunted her dreams, driving her to continuing her mad struggle for survival. A part of her urged her to get up, to lift her leaden limbs and continue to the fight until the last possible moment, and to spit in Insight's face when he came for her. He wants me to fight. Why give him what he wants? It was true, Insight had to be getting some sick pleasure from her efforts, for why else would he have released her? To be fair, Insight had never truly released her. Even now, she was sure he was there, silently watching, hidden from view, exulting in her defeat. It doesn't matter. She hadn't broken any of the rules, but Insight was going to kill her anyways. Perhaps she should count herself lucky that Insight would probably insist on doing it himself, rather than abandoning her to the monster whose twisted creations were prowling the streets. She knew Insight would have killed her no matter what, even if she had completed his challenge. Her only hope had been to play along long enough for Insight to make a mistake she could capitalize on. Unfortunately for her, unlike the man she had once known, Insight did not appear to make mistakes. Despite herself, Euphoria felt her eyes growing heavy. Without a compelling reason to fight off her exhaustion any longer, Euphoria finally succumbed and fell asleep. The nightmares were waiting for her. "Part of me wants to keep the poor thing here, though it wouldn't be right. And you know that sparking man would have made sure I had heaven and hell to pay if I tried to challenge his custody." Leila stopped mid-stride, crouching to the side of the door instead of entering her aunt's living room. Her mother's sister was the only member of that side of the family who Leila had any contact with for as long as she could remember. Despite Leila's prodding, her aunt refused to speak of Leila's mother, or why she had left Leila and her father when Leila was still in diapers. "You'd really consider going to court over this? I mean, I know you're a blood relative, but he's her father, Melanie. Caroline's pretty much abandoned any parental rights she might have had at this point, and with him taking care of her for so long on his own, you wouldn't stand a chance." "I know, I know. Besides, can you see me raising a child? I wouldn't know where to start! I just . . . can't stand the way he is with her, you know? Every time I see them together, I remember how he was with Caroline, and it just. . . I worry. He's so controlling I'm surprised he even lets her visit me." "Probably thinks she needs more 'feminine' influences in her life. At least his out-dated values have a slight silver lining in that way." Leila's aunt snorted. "A very dim silver lining, if even that. I know it's out of my hands, but, I just wouldn't be able to forgive myself if he ever did something to her. . ." "Oh Mel, you don't think he would do anything like that? Surely he's not a danger to her." Leila felt her pulse begin to quicken. A part of her screamed internally, begging her to leave, but her curiosity won out. No matter how much it hurt, she had to know more, and her aunt certainly wasn't going to be more forthcoming if she confronted her directly. "I don't know. It could be my imagination and bias against him getting the better of me, but I do wonder. She's the spitting image of Caroline, you know? And the way he tries to control everything she does, and how she dresses, it's the same crap he tried to pull before Caroline came to her senses and ran off. I don't know what she saw in him in the first place, honestly. And then sometimes he gets that look, in his eye, you know, when he's looking at her. And I just don't think that's how a father should be looking at his daughter." "Mel, don't be dramatic. Surely Caroline wouldn't have left Leila behind if she thought there was any risk of that. She knew him better than anyone. If she thought he was capable of . . . I just can't believe she wouldn't have tried more to protect her own daughter." "Caroline wouldn't have had the patience for the endless drama and legal struggle. She knows Rick is stubborn as a brick, and as good as she is at playing mind games with people, he might be better. Once she decided she needed a clean break, I honestly don't think she spared much thought for the poor girl. I know it's awful to say, her own daughter, but honestly I think it's the truth. I love her--I mean, she's my sister--but she is far from perfect, and she's less suited to being a mother than I am." Not understanding why, Leila noticed her breath coming in and out in quick bursts. She felt a strange agitation, a tightness in her chest, and in her head, like her body was so full it could burst at any moment. I need to get out of here. I can't be here anymore. Leila stood carefully, listening to make sure her aunt and the guest hadn't noticed her presence. Once she was out the front door, and out of earshot, she started running as fast as she could. She didn't know what she needed, only that she needed to get away from that place, and those things her aunt was saying. It's not true, she told herself. It's not true, it's not true, it's not true. Her Aunt hated Leila's father. That was it. She was only saying those things because she was angry with him for fighting with Leila's mother so much. Leila ended up at Danny's house without meaning to. Not wanting him to see her so upset, she turned to leave. She couldn't let him see her, otherwise he would know something was wrong, and she would have to tell him. And she couldn't tell him what was wrong, because admitting what she heard and that she was upset about it meant that part of her wondered if it was true. It's not true, it's not true, it's not true. "Leila? What's up?" Danny was standing on his front porch wearing his pajamas. Numbly, Leila heard Danny's mother shouting at him not to leave the door open and to put a jacket on if he was going outside. On then did she realize she had left her jacket at her Aunt's house, and that she was standing outside, in early November, in nothing but a filmy pink dress and tights. Shouldn't I be shivering? "Leila. Are you okay?" Danny ran down the stairs. Leila flinched. I need to keep running. I need to get away. Her feet refused to move. She stood in place, frozen. "Hey, hey, it's okay. Don't cry." Leila sniffed, choking down the emotions that were threatening to overwhelm her. "I'm not crying." Her tone was forced and devoid of emotion. She couldn't fool him, not with that on her mind. "Don't do 'whatever-Leila-does-instead-of-crying' then," Danny smiled and Leila felt a bit of her anxiety begin to melt away. "Come on, I'm sure we can figure it out. I'm just playing the new game my mom got me last week. You can watch me play if you want. And my mom made homemade oreos! They're so good. I'll ask her to make us some hot chocolate too." Leila let Danny usher her inside, and did her best to leave her fears out in the cold. Euphoria opened her eyes, not sure if the memory had been a part of her nightmare, or Insight snooping through her past again. It had been so vivid. She had never visited her aunt again after that day, throwing a fit whenever her father tried to make her until he relented and decided she was better off not seeing her mother's family at all. Her relationship with her father had never been an easy one, but it had changed after that. The unrelenting stubbornness and harsh commands had always annoyed Euphoria, but her aunt's words had put darker thoughts in Euphoria's mind, one's no amount of logic or reason could dispel. Despite her fears, Danny had never asked what was wrong that day, though she could tell he wondered about it. Somehow he had known, just like he always did, exactly what to do to make her feel better. Danny is dead. And so is Leila. Only Euphoria and Insight remained, and soon one of them would be dead too. Likely me. Glancing over to the clock, Euphoria noted that she had only been asleep for a little over an hour. She still had several hours left until sun down and Insight's deadline. Might as well get up. Wouldn't want to die in the bed of a slave. As she got up, Euphoria heard one of Argon's other slaves who lived in the same building calling after her, scolding her for dozing off during her shift. Euphoria ignored the woman, and retrieved some hair products from one of her hiding places. Argon wasn't home, and thus far he had proven to be a lenient master. Even if he did return and find out she wasn't there, he likely wouldn't care she had been ignoring her duties. It took almost an hour of scrubbing and rinsing with several different products to get most of the brown dye she had been using to disguise herself out of her hair. When she was done, her hair still had a slight brown tinge to it, but for the most part it looked like her regular strawberry blonde. Caroline the slave of Argon could die too. Euphoria had no need of that role anymore. One of the soaps she used to get the dye out smelled faintly of honey. Euphoria usually avoided wearing scents, especially ones which were traditionally feminine, but today, she couldn't bring herself to care. So what if her hair smelled sweet? Maybe it would complement the smell of her corpse rotting. Euphoria returned to her hiding place, and switched out her plain wire frame glasses for a pair with her standard thick rims. She tied her damp hair back into a sensible tail. If she was going to die, she might as well do so as herself. Once she was ready, she exited the tenement and started wandering through town. The sun was shining brightly as it slipped towards the horizon--either Rainmaker was in a better mood, or she had stopped caring. Euphoria avoided the centre of the city, knowing that was where she was most likely to run into someone who might recognize her. If she met someone, or saw another person walking towards her, Euphoria would turn off as soon as possible to avoid them, but otherwise, she didn't pay much attention to where she was going. Insight had stolen the mystery of the hour of her demise from her, but there was something comforting about letting fate decide where she would meet her end. The streets were mostly empty. People avoided going out once it started getting dark, thought the ghouls came out in the day as much as they came out at night. Eventually, a familiar structure came into view. What was it he said I missed? Something about the swings? Euphoria looped around Garfield Elementary, which Rainmaker had never bothered to re-purpose into anything, to where the playground was. It was still standing, surprisingly, likely because Rainmaker simply hadn't cared enough to have it torn down. Euphoria walked over to the rusty swing set, and sat down. The swing was low, and she had to stretch her legs out in front of her. I still don't remember. She supposed it didn't matter what she had missed. Insight had discovered her deception, and now she was going to pay for it. Euphoria absently brushed away a bee that was buzzing around her head, discarding her earlier acceptance of her scented shampoo with a curse. "Trying to figure out where you went wrong?" Insight appeared as the sun slipped below the trees on the other side of the field. Euphoria shrugged. "Not much else to do. My plans have come to nothing, and while I've avoided being dismembered by your zombie friend, somehow I don't think that means I passed your little test, if you can call it that." If she focused, Euphoria could still see the scenery behind Insight, indicating that while he had made himself visible, he remained incorporeal and unable to be touched. Even now he fears me. At least in that, she had been successful, even if her success had sealed her fate. Insight frowned. What's the matter? Is it less fun to torment me when I've given up? Isn't seeing me fail the whole point of your little game? Euphoria held her tongue. Her last moments would surely be painful, if Insight's previous treatment of her was any indication. There was no sense is antagonizing him further. Euphoria swatted away another insect which was fluttering around her head, a butterfly this time. The little thing hovered for a moment, and then fluttered over to where Insight was levitating. Insight became corporeal, and collapsed on the ground. Something primal stirred within Euphoria, propelling her to act on Insight's momentary weakness. She stumbled slightly as she came out of the swing, but sprung forward to conserve her momentum, tackling Insight to the ground before he could rise. Her fingers found his throat and she pushed, dashing his head into the gravel surrounding the swing set. Somehow, he managed to get his legs up far enough to lash out with them and force her off of him. Breathless, Euphoria snarled and renewed her attack. She lunged again, striking with her feet and fists and hand fulls of gravel. Insight fought back, striking her in the face and chest, but Euphoria bore through the pain. She scratched at his face, and bit down on his fingers when he tried to strangle her, drawing blood. As they tumbled, her hands found a larger rock, which she grasped and swung into Insight's temple. As he fell back she surged forward, climbing on top him. She brought the stone down again and again, screaming as she did so. When she finally stopped Insight had long since stopped moving, and what remained of his face was barely recognizable. Frightened, Euphoria scrambled backwards, both in awe and horrified of what she was done. He's gone. He's finally gone. Insight was dead and, against all odds, Euphoria had survived. She rose gingerly to her feet. Her body ached from a dozen bruises and scrapes, and her face felt like it was on fire, but she didn't think anything was broken. She pointedly did not look at where Insight lay. Somehow, her week of terror had ended, and she was still standing, if barely. Euphoria found her glasses, which had been bent and partially shattered in the struggle. She'd have to go back to one of her safe houses to retrieve another pair. After spending what seemed like an eternity in hiding, it was time for people to know exactly who she was. Now it was time to make sure she was never left so vulnerable again. Skinsaver spun as the doors to his office swung open. "I said no one was to bother . . ." he trailed off as he recognized his guest. Though her face was battered and bruised almost beyond recognition, the strawberry blonde hair and the distinctive glasses gave Skinsaver enough visual cues to recognize Euphoria. "Euphoria . . . but . . ." "I have no time for this Skinsaver. I clearly need medical attention." Her voice was strained, but commanding. "Yes of course, right this way." Skinsaver led Euphoria out of his office to the nearest patient room. Though out of sorts, he noted that every staff member they passed seemed to be humming or staring off into space in a contented daze or stupor, enthralled by Euphoria's power. "Does, uh, Rainmaker know you are back?" Skinsaver touched the shoulder of a sedated patient with one hand and reached out for Euphoria with his other hand. As he examined her with his X-Ray vision, he could see that she was favouring one leg, and that she was covered in many scrapes, lacerations, and bruises. What had happened to her? "I will visit Rainmaker as soon as I am well, but that is my concern." Euphoria eased down onto a nearby stool and took Skinsaver's hand. "Butting into other people's business isn't the way to avoid. . . disappointment in the post." Skinsaver shrunk back at the allusion to his weakness. He hadn't realized Rainmaker had shared it with Euphoria, but it only made sense. After all, Euphoria had basically been running Rainmaker's dominion for her. For all he knew she had written the letters Rainmaker used to threaten him. He activated his powers, focusing in on Euphoria's individual injuries, and then doing a generally healing of her entire body. When he was done, his patient had begun weezing in her sleep, suffering from injuries more severe the ones he had healed Euphoria of. "Say nothing of my return. I need to discuss next steps with Rainmaker. We will be in touch." "Yes, of course. But . . ." "Yes of course, my Queen." Skinsaver frowned. Euphoria had always been one of the few Queens to avoid the formalities of her position. "As you command, my Queen." Euphoria nodded, and then left him. "Halt! This area is restricted!" Euphoria didn't break her stride, but lashed out with her powers, and the guard slumped against the wall, giggling with glee. As she made her way through Rainmaker's compound she gave every person she met a similar dosage. Rainmaker's servants had always had the most access to Euphoria's powers, and had no doubt felt the consequences of withdrawal more keenly than other citizens. The sudden restoration of Euphoria's unnatural happiness could be overwhelming for anyone, but for Rainmaker's staff it was all consuming. Many collapsed to the ground, and most barely even seemed to notice her passing. Euphoria opened the doors to Rainmaker's bedroom slowly, and closed them silently behind her. The Queen of Corvallis tossed and turned in her bed, well in the grips of her most recent nightmare. Euphoria took a loaded syringe out of her purse, recently retrieved from another of her safe houses, and mentally prepared herself for what she was going to do. Be calm Rainmaker, I am here to help you. This medicine will help you sleep deeper and keep your nightmares at bay. For extra insurance, Euphoria spread some oil-based lubricant on Rainmaker arm before attempting to pierce her skin. Thankfully, either Rainmaker's danger sense recognized that Euphoria meant no harm, or Euphoria's guess about her weakness had been correct, for the powerful epic did not shift into cloud form. When the syringe was almost empty, Rainmaker's eyes fluttered open. "You . . . Euphoria, is that you?" Rainmaker's voice seemed to slur slightly, as the sedative took hold. "What, what are you doing? Do I dream still?" "Hush, sweet Queen. Go to sleep and all will be well in the morning." "All will . . . but what about the spill? The streets are being flooded. We must clean it up, get rid of it before it reaches us." "Hush, Rainmaker. It is being cleaned up as we speak." "Cleaned . . . yes. Good. Euphoria can handle . . ." Rainmaker trailed off as the sedative took hold. Euphoria emptied what remained in the syringe, and then set it aside. Euphoria clasped Rainmaker's hands in her own and went to work with her powers. She started by focusing on her absence, colouring Rainmaker's perception of the last week with as much pure fear and terror as she could muster. She left periods when she and Rainmaker had been together untouched,--she would go back and increase the positive emotions associated with those times later, saturating Rainmaker's memory with devotion for Euphoria--but then intensified Rainmaker's feelings of fear whenever they were separated. When she got passed their first meeting, Euphoria again focused on fear, drenching Rainmaker's remaining memories with it. Rainmaker's whole life had been one of fear and uncertainty until Euphoria stepped in, and Euphoria was Rainmaker's one source of light. When Euphoria was done, she went back over Rainmaker's emotional history again and again, adding subtle nuances to her revision to make it feel more real. Yes, it had been particularly heartbreaking when people refused to succumb to Rainmaker's rule easily. Couldn't they see she deserved obedience and respect? And then Euphoria had arrived and made everything better. She alone gave Rainmaker what she needed, what she craved above all else. The thought of Euphoria leaving was nearly as frightening as her actual absence. It was only with Euphoria at her side that Rainmaker got the attention she deserved. Her powers made her a mighty force to be reckoned with, but with Euphoria's help she was a goddess. Without Euphoria, Rainmaker was nothing, a thought too terrible to contemplate. There was a reason Rainmaker preferred to rule the way she did, rather than instill terror in her people like some epics. Above all, she craved the adoration of the people around her--she wanted to be celebrated far more than she wanted to be feared. Euphoria worked through the night, not daring to stop until Rainmaker woke up, lest she accidentally miss something as she had with Insight. For this to work, her revisions needed to be perfect. If Rainmaker suspected what had happened, it could all be for naught. Once the sun rose, Rainmaker's mobile started going off. With a free hand, Euphoria sent out a general text instructing that Rainmaker was not to be bothered, and she incapacitated any vanillas who called from outside the door with powerful doses of happiness. Euphoria sat back as Rainmaker's eyes fluttered open, sweeping the empty syringe and the container of lubricant into her purse before they could be seen. "What . . . Euphoria?" Rainmaker's confusion melted away, replaced with an expression of pure joy. She sprung forward, wrapping Euphoria in a tight hug. "It's you, it's really you!" Euphoria suppressed a shudder and returned Rainmaker's embrace. "Yes it is me. You're safe now." "I was so scared without you. Things have been just wretched. I . . . I don't know what to do." "There's only one thing to do, Shining One." "But what? Everything we've built. It's all falling apart. I was so lost without you." "This city does not deserve you anymore, Bright One. They have squandered your generosity and patience. They are not worthy of you, or of us." Euphoria began to run her fingers through Rainmaker's hair in what she hoped was a comforting fashion, and hugged her closer, bringing her mouth even with Rainmaker's ear. "We need to destroy Corvallis." One Year Later Caroline gasped as what was left of her former home came into view. She had to check her mobile several times to be sure she was in the correct location. To be fair, she hadn't been back since long before Calamity had arrived, but even still, she had expected to at least recognize some part of what remained. Instead, she was greeted with complete and utter devastation. The land was torn and broken in a chaotic heap, barren and completely unrecognizable as a place that had once been home to thousands of people. At least now I know he's probably dead. Though the ruins of Corvallis, if what was left could even be properly called a ruin, were particularly bad, what Caroline was seeing was not all that different form what she had seen elsewhere in Oregon. The rumours of its destruction by the warring of its epic masters had proven founded. Caroline took one last look at the desolate landscape, spitting on the ground for good measure, and the returned to her camp. Good riddance. The city and its inhabitants had only bred misery in her life, and the best decision she had ever made was to leave it. A small part of her wondered about the small child she had left behind. Little Leila, named for her mother, against Richard's initial wishes. I hadn't been that hard to convince him, she'd just pointed out what a traditional and feminine name it was, and half the battle was won. Maybe Leila had made the smart decision and gotten out when she could. Maybe Richard had done the little girl a favour by driving her away before she could be caught up in the destruction. No sense in being emotional about it. What's done is done. It took her a few hours to retrace her steps back to her camp. When she returned, the others were making supper--canned beans, again. The only food they had was what they brought themselves. "I'm back," Caroline threw down her pack and sat down next to her friend, Hannah. "So," Hannah turned, offering Caroline a canteen of water, "What happened in Corvallis?"

Activity has been low for a while, so it's tough to say when a good time would be. The post is going well, and I'm pretty happy with it thus far. I'm gonna take a break to eat some supper and will hopefully post later tonight. EDIT: And here it is! I hope everyone enjoys. This was really fun to write, so I'm curious about what people think. I'll still be checking in, so don't hesitate to post if you have questions or want to run something by me (though you don't have to run it by me). I might even be willing to collab on a few one off scenes here and there if there is enough interest, but for the time being, I'd like to consider my part in telling Corvallis's story completed. Thanks to everyone who helped co-write this. It's been a blast. The End of What Happened in Corvallis.

Hey guys. After debating for a while, I don't think I have the time to devote to WHiC any more. There hasn't been movement there in a while, and a lot of the key players (like me) haven't been around much. Rather than leave it open forever, I'd rather get around to writing some scenes that I've been really excited about for a long time. My thought is that I can post the final scene (three days ish from the present day) with a brief summary of Euphoria's plot, since I was really excited to write that part. Then, if people want to 'fill in the blanks' by posting in Corvallis, they are free to do so with their own characters, but I'd prefer not to be involved with supervision/approval anymore. I'm open to staying involved with my other characters is other threads, since they play less major roles, and I don't have the same oversight responsibility, but my feeling is that it is time for Corvallis to meet its end. I have time today, so my plan is to write out the final scene in one sitting. I'll update here when I'm done :).

So awakening was a Rosharan Magic I originally? I wonder if that's part of why we have some Nalthian influences showing up in WoR, to set up scene and Brandon had planned with Surgebinding and awakening.

I saw the intro post. What I meant was I'd like to see you write with Arthur or a different character more before you tackle a character with as much going on as Shattered in Corvallis. I'm concerned about how you will integrate him into existing plots in Corvallis at this point, and would prefer for you to start with a less complicated character. You don't need a rare and prevalently misunderstood disorder to develop complex character plots and conflicts. That's just my opinion though, so do what you will. For Shattered, I'm also still concerned about the number of powers he has (It's quite the list), but I guess there's nothing preventing him from having that many. For the corruption, I don't know exactly how it would work with multiple personalities (another reason I'm leary of the concept without further research), but I think it should be affecting them all. I posted it in reference to my Taylor Swift Epic because TS is giving me epic vibes in it. I think it's largely a tongue in cheek self parody with a catchy beat.