Sparks

There may also be a religious parallel at play here too; just as the Church is revealed not to be the building / temple it is housed in, but the hearts of the people that identify with the Church, Urithiru may be revealed not to be the tower that houses it, but instead the Sibling / Bondsmith pairing that resided in the tower all along for dramatic effect.

Urithiru falling smacks of Kholinar falling, and for similar reasons. If the Knights successfully defend and stay static in Urithiru, it makes for a less exciting story. Placing the good guys on the run, and having to scrap for shelter and safety raises the stakes for the Brandon avalanche at the climax. I think a good "win some, lose some" scenario for the climax of the second act of the book would be for Raboniel to be successful in driving the Radiants out of Urithiru; but Navani bonds or successfully awakens the Sibling and frees it from containment within the Urithiru gem pillar.

Great chapter! I'm glad we're getting more exploration of the Singer side. Is anyone else getting a strong "Imperial Seanchan" flavor from Singer culture? Also, it struck me that maybe what Venli is doing now - becoming a Willshaper and rebelling against Odium - is exactly what a splinter of the pro-Odium ancient humans did, many years ago. And possibly Odium's replacement strategy was to court and corrupt susceptible Singers with resentment, exactly the same way that Odium recruited Moash (and possibly Aesudan).

I think the real game plan for Odium is to limit the involvement of the Honorspren, who are deeply divided against allying again with the humans who they view as treacherous. The best way to do that is not to kill all the soft meatbags that bond with the Honorspren, because they can always find more soft meatbags to bond with. The way to do that is to remind the Honorspren of the Recreance, and convince the large majority of them that the humans are no more trustworthy to hold their bonds than they were previously. With Sylphrena being a celebrity Honorspren, her death (again) at the hands of Kaladin breaking more oaths due to worsening depression would pretty much seal the deal for the rest of the Honorspren on the fence, IMO. In that vein, I don't think Moash really wanted Kaladin to kill himself right then and there. He just wants to send him on the downward spiral that will lead to broken oaths.

New theory of mine for spren / Soulcasters / singers: Since Brandon has already said, "given enough time, Investiture will gain sentience" (paraphrased), my new pet theory is that Stormlight -> spren -> Parshmen / Parshendi / the Singers are all on one evolutionary line. Spren are investiture given energy, some form and possibly some sentience. The Singers are an offshoot of Spren that became more entirely grounded in the Physical realm, either by being trapped here or through slow evolution, but still retaining some of their Spren-like characteristics, like their magic communication, their influence by music and rhythm, and their ability to change forms. Humans were the invaders to the world of spren-made-people. Also, Soulcasters have weird Radiant spren. But I propose that they're normal spren that have died, similar to how the Shardblades in tWoK were spren that have died. Soulcasters associated with a living spren probably are the same different-but-the-same as Sylblade is to Oathbringer. And this would be why Navani messing with dead Soulcasters is making our mysterious messenger so very angry, in the same way that Kaladin messing with dead Shardblades disgusted Syl. Sorry if somebody else already something similar elsewhere!

*cries for the Rithmatist sequel*

I think the most interesting plot line that Kaladin’s new holdings would be Kaladin using it to create a land where listeners unaffiliated with Odium and humans live side by side. Such a society, and the alternative it offers of breaking the Singers away from Odium, is the most likely path to true victory for the Good Guys that I can see.

Dalinar didn't know it, but there was a tenth there present for the battle: Venli. And if Timbre is a Willshaper spren, every order would have been represented at the Battle of Thaylen City. I actually thought Odium was referring to Dalinar. With Dalinar holding the bond to the Stormfather, he has the power to set the conditions to release the Oathpact and set Odium free. "The conduit of my freedom. The bane of Roshar." The bane of Roshar meaning the Blackthorn unleashed as Odium's Champion. Although it works to reference the knife as well, if the knife is what I think it is... I think it was in addition to the King's Drop. Both are weapons to Odium. My theory is that the knife is made of a godsmetal, like Atium or Lerasium - maybe even Tanavastium (since we haven't seen Honor's body yet)! A hemalurgic spike made of godsmetal can steal any property from a living soul, say, the special properties that make a Herald a Herald...

So, multiple things... I agree with the majority of the views in the podcast that Adolin is in a much better place, maturity-wise and emotionally, to provide support and understanding for Shallan as she is learning to integrate her multiple personalities in her psyche, for lack of a better way to put it. The huge red flag for me was in Shadesmar when Kaladin was like "YES! I could create a whole new Me like you, Shallan, and hide away from all my problems!" and Shallan was cringing and thinking inside "umm....sure....it sucks and it's tearing me apart and I need to fix it" and Kaladin is completely oblivious to this. Shallan opens up a bit with both Kaladin and Adolin over the course of the 3 books and they react in completely different ways to that revelation in their relation to Shallan. For whoever said, "Why didn't Radiant choose Adolin at the end?" It's because of who Radiant is. Radiant likes Adolin but agrees to go along with Veil because "there are definite advantages to two Knights Radiant getting together". If Veil is the approximate id, the transgressive side of Shallan, Radiant is the superego of Shallan, the part that would be more than ready to submerge her feelings for Adolin for a "better pairing" with Kaladin's new status. As someone who has watched way too many romantic movies on dates, I agree that Shallan/Kaladin is far and away delving into boring cliche Nicholas Sparks territory, from the girl-boy meet-cute to the I-hate-you now I-can't-stop-thinking-about-you to the forced companionship in the chasms and the inevitable soul barings. While Sanderson does have a string of arranged marriage successes, like you guys said, Dalinar/Evi and Gavilar/Navani definitely show the other side of what happens with not-so-rosy arranged marriages. And if someone is really anti-arranged marriage, Sebarial/Palona is definitely the Sanderson example that worked out really well. With all that, I don't think Kaladin/Shallan is necessarily done, either. Until Shallan truly resolves Veil/Shallan/Radiant, Veil (and really, Shallan deep down) is going to crush on Kaladin, no matter how much she stuffs it into a deep dark hole or whether or not she stays faithful to Adolin. (I could see a Guinevere/Arthur/Lancelot thing developing later down the road.) And, to pull an example from Dalinar and Navani's marriage to Gavilar, Kaladin can "give up" on Shallan and accept her relationship with Adolin without the attraction going away, either. The relationship I really was sad over in Oathbringer was not any part of the Triangle; it was Dalinar/Evi. I feel like present day-Dalinar and Evi would have been an amazing pair, and all of Evi's advice and nurturing for Dalinar turned out to be spot on. It was just the right relationship at the wrong time for Dalinar, and watching it develop to its abrupt end through the flashbacks in Oathbringer killed me. I forgive you, at the last, was the bittersweet knife twisting. Without Evi, Dalinar could never have developed into the man that could become Unity, but Evi never gets to see the payoff at the end (unless you're counting her spirit/ghost).

So...is Book 4 now going to be Venli’s book? I assumed somewhere along the way in writing Oathbringer, it went from being Eshonai’s book to being Venli’s book. Unless Kelsier is about to get some company from another shadow... I think we can add Renarin to the list. I think he’s going to end up occupying a lot of Jasnah’s on-screen time!

"I will always protect, even if the cause is hopeless." Even though it's rather Stoneward-y, the windspren are attracted to Kaladin most when he is attempting hopeless things, instead of giving up and throwing in the towel. He could have let those people die in the Highstorm. Syl thought he was crazy to stay. It's also a nice contrast to Amaram, who is perfectly willing to write people off for "the greater good".

Aww...it's been so long since I read Warbreaker. Well, I can't unhear in my headcanon! Maybe I'll read it in a slightly deeper male version of Failsafe. I bet Maya, when she revives, is going to be snarky as all get out. Maya and Shallan are going to have some real girl bonding time.

1) We need more Szeth and Lift. They can have a whole ongoing buddy series in small print, like Edgedancer, as far as I'm concerned. 2) Nightblood is the best. For any Destiny 2 players out there, do you hear Nightblood in Failsafe's voice? Because I do. 3) Poor Elhokar. Just when he starts to understand and change into a better man..... 4) A while back, I advanced the theory that Kaladin was going to be chosen as Odium's champion, because I thought his severe depression was actually an ongoing corruption from one of the Unmade. Oops, wrong Radiant! 5) I kinda feel like Warbreaker is getting its sequel worked into the Stormlight Archives already! 6) Mayalaran. That's going to be an awesome scene where she is revived. And I'm interested if Adolin/Maya can form a different kind of partnership - something new between men and spren - if Adolin's soul truly isn't broken. 7) I did not see Venli's redemption arc coming. At all! 8) Random speculation: what would happen if you Splintered Odium and then captured the pieces in perfect gemhearts? What are the Ghostbloods' goals? What are Vasher/Nightblood doing on Roshar in the first place? Will the plan be to create a new and better Oathpact?

Part of the reason of royal relationships in Alethkar being of similar age is because of the roles expected of them. Royal women in feudal Earth were there for childbearing, and in many instances, not much else. You had household staffs for domestic duties. Royal women in Alethkar are expected to participate in court politics, run networks of informants, arrange assassinations, scribe and excel in the “feminine arts”, which happen to include scholarship, performing arts, engineering and craftsmanship, and who knows what else. They are also expected to compete, and win, against each other, as part of the relationship team. It would actually be more beneficial for an older or widowed Alethi lady to marry a younger Alethi lord, as long as potential heirs are not a need for the male side of the family. As opposed to an Alethi lord marrying a younger, inexperienced girl that potentially brings nothing except childbearing to the relationship, the way many Earthly royal marriages were arranged.

Well, color me surprised, I’m famous!

My pet theory is that the yellow spren warning the Listeners is a Cultivationspren. I like the theory that only full spren can bond with people. If the Everstorm leaves some of the parshmen unbonded each time due to finite voidspren being available, it makes sense that another spren would be able to step in at that point.

Crazy theory. After reading the newest Chapters I'm increasingly convinced Renarin and Elhokar as potential Champions for Odium are red herrings being thrown out by Brandon. Reading about Dalinar under the spell of the Thrill and presumably the touch of one of the Unmade, it's clear that it induces a form of psychosis, including delusions of invincibility, unnatural rage and aggression and loss of judgement. Which led me to hypothesize, what if every Unmade can touch and alter humans like that? What if one of the Unmade can induce hopelessness and deep depression or even bipolar thinking that can alter judgement and behavior as well? Kaladin has been battling severe depression since the start of tWoK. But given how the Thrill works, it may not even be completely natural mental illness. Kaladin may be in the claws of one of the Unmade, and Brandon may be seeding hints of Kaladin (or at least a darker version of Kaladin) being influenced into being Odium's Champion through the touch of the Unmade on his mind. I can only imagine the state of mind any human would have with all nine shadows touching them. The key to this would be to tear away Syl. Syl hangs a lampshade on it, "My job is to bring light and joy and chase away shadows when you're being a dour idiot, Kal." I think this will be another one of Brandon's clever ironies before the series is done. As Syl's influence on Kaladin increases, his depression (and the touch of the Unmade?) shrinks and he becomes less...odious. As Syl's influence wanes and she grows more distant in the first and second book, when Kal was considering suicide or letting Elhokar die, his depression was worse. We saw with Dalinar that the closer he came to Radiant, the less the Thrill was able to affect him. And just as removing Syl from the equation would be the key to making Kaladin Odium's champion, reviving Syl would be the key to redeeming Kaladin and defeating Odium.

Mostly awesome book...still feel Firefight is the best book of the series. The ending felt rushed, mainly because the buildup and action in salty Atlanta was so much better than Obliteration yanking David away to the space station. Although Elantris kind of suffered in the same way; once Raoden was crowned King everything that followed felt kind of by the numbers. Wish both Mizzy and Megan had been given more to do independent of David's plans. A great way to have done that would have been to flesh out the conflict over Sam more (which I was really looking forward to after Firefight!), although I can see why that wasn't pursued due to pacing. This is YA, not the Stormlight Archives after all. Last major quibble: the Reckoners could easily have been a Cosmere book, for all the protestations that they weren't. Shards, Adolnalsium, Investiture, were all present in one form or another.

Here's a question that just occurred to me. Regalia says to David at the end that all Epics, in the right circumstances, can be gifters. What kind of circumstances would that be? Taking into account Prof, Conflux and Digzone (what little we know about them). Is it related to fear as well? Or it's opposite, courage? It also means that all the Epics could potentially be good, if we're still going with the theory that gifting their powers can keep the Epics sane indefinitely.

I really hope there's an illustrated guide to Epics coming out! To fill in the backstory on all of the one offs.

I can't believe I just sped read through all of Firefight! At least I have a first hand feel for the compulsion Epics feel. First of all, this could be a Cosmere book. I know it's not, because Brandon doesn't want it to be, but Calamity feels very much like the Shard of Fear. Ironically, is what Calamity fears Fear itself? By gifting all these powers to fearful people, is he trying to empower them against their worst fears? Second, I'm confused on the conquering fears aspect. Epics are fearful, it's in their core nature, like a soul being broken in a very specific way. David conquered his fear, and he lost (or rejected outright) his gifted power from Calamity. Megan conquered her fear and seemed to grow stronger in her powers because of it. Does that mean David still has access to his gift, but conquering his fear allows him to consciously choose not to use it or be ruled by it? And/or does it mean Megan can reject her gift as well through conquering her fear? Also, something's totally strange with David. And not in a powers from Calamity vibe. His ability to instill confidence and warp others to his needs by sheer willpower is very ta'averen. In a Mat sort of way. Everyone else in the book remarking on this cannot be an accident.

The biggest argument for me against Shallan/Kaladin is their polar opposite natures, roles, and spren. Pattern is a Cryptic. Pattern and Shallan are fascinated by lies. They have no problem exploring different masks, facades, and identities. They have no problem pursuing a goal by any means necessary, and molding themselves to play the part needed (or even multiple parts needed, in the case of Veil and Shallan).Shallan is the spy / deep cover agent or double agent of the KR. Syl is an Honorspren. Honorspren and Cryptics loathe each other, for obvious reasons. Kaladin, even though he struggles with truthfulness about himself and self-awareness, he demands transparency and honor in others. And when he lets things slide, like Moash, he gets in real trouble, either with his own self, or with Syl. Kaladin is the oathbound Knight of Camelot of the KR. How exactly is that relationship going to pan out? Kaladin will be denouncing every moral ambiguity, every lie and half-truth and even outright opposing Shallan on important issues where their worldviews are going to conflict. Sure, having someone be bluntly honest with Shallan is nice, but frankly Shallan seems to have a pretty good handle on reality as it is (she deduces the political undercurrents of the Alethi court fast enough, and she self-analyzes well), and even when she didn't (in tWoK), Jasnah fills that role better. And from the opposite side, because Adolin is not Kaladin is why I think she will come to the conclusion that Adolin makes a good fit for her. Whether that's enough for her or she's ready for that will be up to BS and Shallan. From what I can tell of Shallan, she is someone who is always multitasking through multiple life interests, someone who is always going to be biting off enough to stretch her capacity to chew. Someone who is very adaptable and quick thinking, but hasn't always had time to properly think things through and frequently improvises to get out of her own jams. Importantly for this conversation, she's done all this without positive, supportive male involvement - starting with her father and ending with Kabsal (who seemed to give her what she wanted before neatly yanking the rug out from under her). The vibe I get from Shallan's POVs about Adolin speaks to that. He starts off as a mark and as a means to an end, becomes a physical infatuation, and at the end of WoR she's starting to move on to contemplate what he can and can't provide as a personal partner. Adolin will never be brilliant or a polyglot like Jasnah or Shallan. He will never be a partner in crime or a superior to Shallan in the arenas and fields she works in and excels at. He's not a mentor, and he won't challenge or confront her the way that Jasnah or Kaladin will. But what he is, is open-minded (for Roshar). He processes, accepts and works effectively with life-changing revelations that are coming faster by the day. He's loyal like a pitbull to his friends and family, even to a fault. And he can be someone dependable and supportive without being overly judgemental or stepping in to fight her battles for her. Having enormous resources to call on as an Alethi prince is a bonus for a woman who will need to make use of those. Being the Ryan Gosling of Roshar probably doesn't hurt. Having atypical compassion, empathy and charm for Alethi royalty, when she's experienced so little of any of that in her own past, scores bonus points.

Can I just add to the chorus, love triangles are the worst? Yes, they can be done less badly or less cliched than others have done, but why? And yes, all the signs are pointed to some sort of romantic tension between the 3. I think talk of "X belongs with Y, because they're a better match" is pure speculation at this point. They're all 3 (leaving Renarin out at the moment, but he fits, too) very immature, prejudiced people who are at the end of WoR just starting to grow up. It's basically asking which college freshmen will be the most compatible couples. They and we won't even know who they're going to end up being 5 books from now, or even if they're alive. I think there's enough growth potential for either pairing to end up working well, or either pairing to fail spectacularly. With that being said, in a book series where generational sins and history repeating itself are thematically present in everything, it's worth examining both the relationships of Shallan's, Kaladin's, and Adolin's parents as well as all 3's previous relationships in the books. Is Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar repeating itself with a twist on parentage, or is the trope being subverted in the next generation? Is Kaladin (the more outwardly broody, rage-filled, melancholy type) more like the I Married My Father trap to Shallan or is Adolin (who may be developing his own inner demons)? Will Adolin ever get over his philandering ways? Will Kal ever stop thinking of women as possessions? I don't buy the "Kaladin and Shallan have such a special relationship!" angle any more than I buy the "Shallan and Adolin have much more physical chemistry!" angle. Shallan could grow to be attracted to Kaladin as much or more. And really, the only reason that Shallan hasn't opened up similarly to Adolin is because she felt compelled by her lack of confidence and social conventions to present a front to Adolin. Which have all been conveniently removed by Shallan becoming a Radiant. Speaking of which, I notice a lot of people are saying "there's no need for the Kholins and Shallan to pursue a beneficial marriage angle now that they found Urithru". They're missing that yeah, in an age of Feudalism and an emerging power structure of mega-powerful Knights Radiant, there are loads of political benefits to tying as many family knots as possible between the KR and the "good guy" political Kholin dynasty, for both sides. Jasnah already knew that, and Navani gets it right away. I really, really hope BS is just using all this to set up a subversion of the Love Triangle trope. I can burn a prayer.

For some reason the idea of Reckoner cells being staffed by closet Epics makes me giggle. It's like Bruce the Shark's Fish Anonymous club in Finding Nemo - "Humans are Friends, Not Fun!" "It's been 15 days since I killed a human..." In regards to Prof being Digzone - the biggest hole I can see with that theory is that Digzone used to (does?) work for Steelheart, and should have been recognized. When Steelheart floated down to Soldier Field he should have been like "Digzone?? W. T. H." Tia has to be girlfriend / close relative of Prof. And she's likely the real reason why Prof's a good guy now. It's interesting that those two came up with the idea already that using Epic powers = evilness but yet they haven't been spreading it around like I'm sure David will be. I wonder what their reasoning was...

Firefight's weakness is easy; spontaneous displays of dedicated nerdiness. Joking aside, there's a broader question in general about how "Weaknesses" work... sometimes the Epic's survival power is also their primary power (Fortuity), but often times (like Firefight, Limelight, Steelheart) it's a secondary, unrelated power. It seems (but by no means do I think it's confirmed) that "Weaknesses" are cracks in the armor of the survival power...but what if the weakness is in a primary power (like if Firefight had imperfect illusions) and there is no imperfection in the survival power (reincarnation)? For example, Fortuity had a weakness for personal attraction to the source of danger. But he was checkmated because he had no where to go between dodging a moving car and 2 different bullets in midair. His death was therefore not due to his weakness. In the same light, checkmating Firefight by killing her in a place where reincarnation nearby would be impossible is not strictly a "Weakness".