Gloom

I've seen a lot of Wheelans work, and I don't think this will ever be considered one of his strongest pieces. Personally, it hardly matters to me since I'm just buying the digital version anyway. At the very least, this is the artists interpretation of an actual scene. That doesn't mean it is true to the book, just true to the artists vision of the scene.

Yet more wild speculation: We don't really know enough about the Recreance to understand why the Radiants did what they did. I tend to think that they were being drug into the wars of nations, and they felt it was more honorable to give up what they stood for than to see it tarnished. The Radiants existed for a singular purpose given to them by the Heralds. To remain true to that purpose they may have felt they had no other choice but to disband and lay down their arms. The former Radiants may not have been separated from their spren, but if the spren were bonded to both the Radiants and their arms, then they would have chosen, perhaps painfully, to remain with their bonded human rather than the bonded Shards.

I'll fearlessly speculate wildly and suggest that hoser is correct. The Shards were glowing when the Radiants arrived, and the glow faded as the Radiants abandoned their arms and their oaths. This would lead me to believe that the spren linked to the Shards also abandoned them to the whims of fate. This mass abandonment may have severely stressed the spren involved as well. This could be why the spren abandoned the process of bonding with humans for thousands of years, and only now, on the very cusp of a new Desolation have begun the bonding process again. The Shards themselves remained because no new Radiant was chosen as a replacement. Without a new Radiant to replace the old Radiant, the Shards endured like old bones. Some additional wild and unsubstantiated speculation: Syl may hate Dalinars Shards because subconsciously she sees them as corpses on display being used in ways that their previous inhabitants would have never allowed. The Shards may be the abandoned physical manifestation of bonding spren that in the normal course of things would have decayed as soon as a new Radiant was raised. To Syl it may be the same as you wearing her dead brothers skin and waving his arm around as a weapon. I don't believe any of the spren actually died mind you, but the principle is the same. The fact that Syl doesn't really understand yet why she finds the Dalinars Shards unsettling could possibly increase her dislike.

Provided Shards are of Cultivation and grown, it is possible that each Shard is linked with a specific spren. According to the theory that Satsuoni postulated, the Shards only exist until the spren linked to those Shards bonds with a new Radiant who grows a new set of Shards. Once a new set of Shards is created, the original set would crumble. Provided their are a finite number of spren capable of creating Radiant bonds, this would limit the number of Shards that can exist at any one time. It would also eliminate concerns about maintaining Radiant numbers as Shards were lost provided their is a limiting factor on the numbers that can be created.

I can roll with that. Let me amend my previous post by saying that it is likely that less than one tenth of the Shards that existed prior to the Recreance are in use during Dalinar's time.

Just for the sake of clarity... That means over one hundred Shards have been lost in the last 4500 years. Some, at least some plate, was likely destroyed. Others may be buried under crem with their lost wielders. This leaves over 900 sets of Shards unaccounted for if every order of the Radiants were Shardbearers.

I personally feel that Shards are of Cultivation and therefor grown. Your solution to how this could occur and still limit the availability of existing Shards is plausible, but I find the theory difficult to support. I will say that after all the Desolation's, there must be some limitation on their creation. If there weren't, It seems likely that the Radiants would have created thousands of sets and distributed them to those they felt trustworthy for the duration of those Desolation's. This limitation has to be something to do with the magic system itself, a material limitation would see a larger number of blades than plate. Our own history has repeatedly shown we have a habit of putting a greater value on effective weaponry than we do on effective personal defense.

The Alethi culture has no basis to explain a dark-eye wielding a Shard. I have no doubts that there will be resistance, but his very existence will cause problems, unless of course, they kill him before he becomes widely known. As far as the clergy goes, they have been neutered. If those in control of the church saw Taln as a means to increase their power, they would grab at it like a drowning man does a piece of wood. Men who rise in power only do so because they seek power. This is different from those who are born into power. Those born into power are just as likely to abuse power, but aren't necessarily driven by a hunger to attain more. As for Shards... There are various sources that may reveal the lost craft of Shard creation. The heralds are a good possibility, but the secret could also be revealed to Dalinar by some means, or Syl could simply remember how the Radiants came by them in the first place. Brandon could even tap an as yet unknown source to reintroduce Shards in large numbers. I personally believe that the lost Shards will be rediscovered, rather than the art of their creation. If I'm wrong, I'm sure some factor will be introduced to severely limit the number of Shards that can be made. If this isn't the case it would be hard to create tension with a million Shardbearers standing tall waiting for the voidbringers to arrive.

Nope, I'm in favor of the theory that spren are attracted to their namesake and reinforce that event. So Honorspren would be attracted to an honorable person, and reinforce that persons honorable behavior. This helps me rationalize some of Kaladins behavior which has at times appeared to be inhumanly honorable. This would also explain why Syl went through the effort of fighting off the Deathspren. It would help explain why everything outside of Shinovar isn't a near lifeless wasteland as Lifespren would reinforce life after each Highstorm, helping it recover and adapt to the extremely harsh conditions, the lack of ground based nutrients, etc. Gloryspren obviously bring attention, and therefor more glory to the glorious. It's hard to say whether this is true in regards to other spren, Do Fearspren make it more difficult to overcome fear? Do Rotspren spread infection? Do Alespren keep you drunk longer? I'm open to the idea that not all spren are created equal. Some spren are stronger and have a greater influence on the world around them. This is backed up to some degree by Kaladin when he talks about larger spren having a greater amount of influence on the material world. But I would postulate that this is only scratching the surface. I think that the influence of spren on the world and its inhabitants is varied by not only size, but by type as well. Edit: grammar

This would assume that they will attain the knowledge, time, and resources required to make new shards. I think Taln may shake this belief the Alethi have about eye color to its core before long.

What I see here is a spren that was tainted. I don't really believe that we will see void spren. Odium doesn't want to invest anything into the world, he wants to destroy it. Because of this I believe he will allow those minions already invested to taint what exists, but won't actually add anything new. At the end of a Desolation when Odium withdraws his champions from the world (or they are slain), his influence on those spren ends and they revert back to regular spren, or die. I'm torn on the Parsh. We simply don't have enough information for me to decide where I stand. Valid arguments abound in either direction. I will say this. They fear the return of their gods, which leads me to believe that they had reason to fear. If I knew definitively who they worshiped as gods, it would answer a lot of questions for me. For all I know, they worshiped the Knights Radiant and were the caretakers of Urithiru.

Okay, lets go with an explosion of in the center of the plains that radiated outward. Then lets add a couple thousand years of Highstorms coming in from the east. This would not only cause erosion, but a sandblasting effect from the large amount of debris the Highstorm throws around. This could explain the larger amount of erosion in the east. Ten perfectly circular camps...Nature doesn't function this way. Craters are roughly circular, but not perfectly circular. This could of course be the cartographers interpretation, but if it isn't, the map would lead me to believe that these 'craters' are man made. A couple thousand years worth of crem deposits could mask this from anyone who wasn't trying to see a pattern. Ten orders of Radiants. Around eight hundred missing Shardsets. Ten perfectly round 'craters'. A mandate from the Almighty to recover the Shards. Nevermind, I'm sure it's all just coincidence.

Officially, I doubt that Brandon's team would take the time to vet a Tor publication. Unofficially, I'd be pretty surprised if Brandon hasn't taken the five minutes out of a day in the months that it has been available to read it. It concerns his work. He's a curious person. He is a likable person, but he's also proud of his work. He considers himself a professional. He keeps himself informed. These are the impressions I have gotten about Brandon from his posts, his interviews, and his pod casts. Would he bother to inform Carl of an error? Possibly, but not if informing him of it would give something away. I agree with your assessment of the NIghtwatcher. I'll withhold judgement on speculating as to why Carl omitted the Nightwatcher. The entire second paragraph was written in frustration because someone decided to throw your post from a different thread back in my face after I'd acknowledged that the article shouldn't be taken as fact in the thread it was intended for. I have no problem with having my opinions or theories refuted. I do have a problem with someone using a Moderators post from a different thread as an I told you so. Feel free to delete this post as well as post 52 as they really don't contribute to topic of this thread.

I agree, Honor is dead. What I don't know is if death is a permanent state, or if it can be reversed. Is Honor Humpty Dumpty? Or can all the kings men put him back together again? Honorspren still exist, which may or may not mean anything. Roshar is out of balance and this imbalance needs to be corrected in order to end the cycle of desolations. I'm assuming that it will also bring an end to the weekly hurricanes they refer to as Highstorms. If so, that is a post worthy of it's own thread. What would magic be like on Roshar without Highstorms.

Kaladin learned to master the spear in a comparatively short period of time. He has never wielded any other weapon type except throwing knives that we know of. He appeared to be good enough with throwing knives that he could hit a man in the eye with barely a thought while in the midst of fighting with his spear. These are skills that should take years of practice. He attained mastery of his weapons and high rank in Amarams army in an extremely short period of time. He was a prodigy. He's even better now. The question shouldn't be will he wield a Shardblade, the question should be will he be willing, and have the opportunity, to learn the sword, to master the blade, before he is forced to accept them in order to fight the final desolation. I don't doubt Kaladins ability to master a new weapon, I doubt his ability to accept the necessity. Time will tell.

I agree with the first part. As for the second part...Pearls are grown and harvested. The level of danger involved with harvesting pearls from farms is significantly reduced from that of harvesting pearls from natural sources. This has had an effect on the price of pearls, though those pearls that are harvested from natural sources are touted as being superior. Even then, modern scuba equipment has further reduced the danger and increased the quantity of naturally harvested pearls. So we do have some basis for comparison on grown precious stones. Thoughts on the OP: I concur that the size of the gemstone should have some effect on the amount of time it can hold Stormlight. I would further hypothesize that a cut gemstone will hold stomlight longer than a similarly sized uncut gemstone of the same type. This is pure speculation on my part, and there is evidence against this. This quote can be interpreted to mean all spheres, since he referenced this time with chips and referenced diamond broams going dun during weepings. So we can assume that anything the size of a the gem in a broam or smaller will lose its stormlight within a standard week our time. As for larger gemstones and cut gemstones, we don't have enough information to make a determination, but I'm still leaning towards the idea that larger gemstones hold stormlight better than the pea sized or smaller gemstones in currency. Thoughts on money: Chips, marks, and broams are all about the same size according to Shallan, and about the size of a thumbnail. I'm assuming that Shallan doesn't have oversized thumbs, so I'd guess that means that they are smaller in diameter than a US dime. They are made of glass, and have a gemstone in the center. The gemstone inside a chip is small enough that when it is dun, the apothecary needed a jewelers loop to verify it wasn't counterfeit. The differences between chips, marks, and broams are visually distinct. This leads me to believe that the size of the gemstone within is significantly larger for each level of currency. An emerald broam is worth 1000 diamond chips. A mark is worth five chips of the same denomination. Diamond is the least valuable gemstone because it can't be soulcast. I have yet to find a direct correlation between the value of a diamond broam in comparison to an emerald broam. I'd speculate that a diamond broam is more valuable than an emerald mark, but I don't have enough to go on to speculate how much more. I would speculate that the gemstones inside currency are uncut, as defined by the standards of cut gems, but shaped to conform to a size standard. Unfortunately, I have no in-world information to base this speculation on.

A direct quote from the Almighty. At least if you believe Dalinars visions.

This is probably true, at least outside of Shinovar. One of the slaves in Kaladins wagon was concerned that he would end up in a mine, and was relieved that he would just be working a war camp instead. Metals need to be mined for armor, weapons, pots, pans, wagons, etc. The Shin are willing to pay top dollar for soulcast metals. All of these things point towards mining being a vital part of the Rosharian economy.

I underlined the most relevant part of the passage for your convenience. It seems clear to me that Shards will be rediscovered, possibly in the ruins that the camps are situated on, or possibly they will rediscover how to make them, but it will be Shards. I think the evidence is pretty clear. I'd even say that considering the placement of this passage it will likely happen between the middle to end of WoR.

Granted, I was vastly oversimplifying the process. We can cut gems with greater precision due to our technological advancement, and we can do it faster, but you are correct. I'm doubtful about the mining. One reason for this is Dalinars' comments about caves and crem when he was dreaming about being Heb. Quite to the contrary. I believe that gems are far more accessible in Roshar than they are in the real world. They may not recover a large number of gemstones through mining, but they do harvest a large number of them from various great shells. The difference is in consumption. Our society has very little use for gemstones outside of some optical applications and jewelry, while Rosharian society consumes gemstones regularly. I'll cite Jasnas smoke stone as evidence. I won't argue that this smokestone, which was presumably a large one can't be re-cut into smaller stones, but some of the stone will be waste...unless it is going to end up in chips of course. To me this is further evidence of how valuable and expensive a commodity gemstones are in the Rosharian economy. The greater the demand for a limited resource, the more valuable it becomes. Supply and demand has always driven markets, and this resource is rarely attained without danger which would further drive up the price.

Why? First, the link was just informational in this post. It wasn't used to substantiate anything. Second, while the Team Sanderson may not have officially vetted the link, they haven't discredited it either. The fact that the Night Watcher was absent from the list when the book referenced it in regards to spren may or may not be a factor. You think Tor publishes information like this without getting approval and a nod from the materials creator? If so, then why wasn't the Night Watcher included? Sloppy research? Really? From his publisher? Third, much of the information from that link were direct quotes from the Way of Kings. Yes, the author added additional information and opinion at times, but in regards to spren, it is a very good resource material that can save time for those who are interested in spren. I'm assuming direct quotes aren't under suspicion.

Agreed. What I was trying to convey was that the Night Watchers reputation may partly be a result of the type of people that sought it out.

I withdraw exhibit A from evidence your honor. The rest of my statement stands.

We have machines that can cut gems for us. We can just dump them in by the batch and poof, they are shiny and smooth. They are still expensive, and all we can do with them is look at them and use them to impress people. Agreed. The fragments left over from gem cutting are what I'd always assumed were what was embedded in the glass of chips, marks, and broams. I doubt we'll ever clarification on this though.

In order to cultivate something you have to follow certain steps. Till the soil, plant the seed, water the seed, weed out that which is undesirable, etc. So there is destruction in cultivation. a culling of that which is undesirable. Now take your average supplicant. Most people who go to the Night Watcher are broken in some way. The Night Watcher doesn't break them, it gives them what they want (arguably) in exchange for shaping them into what it needs. Take Dalinar Kholin and the loss of his memories of his wife. Why would these be unproductive to the the goals of the Night watcher? If Dalinar had those memories, he may not have become the man he is. He may have found solace in those memories. He may not have been driven back to Navani. He may not have become as dedicated to the Way of Kings as he has become. I'm pretty certain that Tor has given away a very solid truth about the Night Watcher. It isn't a spren. If it were a spren, it would be listed on this site like all the others. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/04/way-of-kings-spren-catalogue This doesn't prove that the Night Watcher is a shardpool, but I believe it eliminates it from being spren.