Claincy

thanks

Hard boundary?

The story is hilarious. XD Do you remember the on the Elendel broadsheet the episode of Allomancer Jak and the Pits of Eltania? This is episodes 28 through 30, with annotations by his editor/traveling companion. It's great, read it!

AoL is supplement now available! =D

Thanks. That does make sense to me actually. To my recollection surgebinder is a general term for anyone using surges. So anyone wielding an honorblade is a surgebinder and anyone with a first stage spren bond is a surgebinder. A Bondsmith, as a member of the Knights Radiant, is far more specific and describes someone quite powerful and, I figure, highly influential. *shrug*

Yeah, it can be very difficult :/ Oh well, it also leads to humorous mistakes at times. Tah. I probably wasn't absolutely certain at the time, but making a highly educated guess.

I know, just making a joke

Did you just congratulate me on being given a lot of rep? (I do get it There are other posts, there just aren't all that many.)

She gave no indication that she didn't know for certain how the curses and boons were being decided. Given no evidence to the contrary it was a logical conclusion that, as she had been helping run the game, she was aware how this was working. I apologize if you are interpreting my posts as an attack rather than a discussion of the rules and some of the aspects of them that could be improved upon. You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying as I made no distinction between him using the merchants or the sharders to fuel the sword. My point was about how powerful it was in the hands of an individual sharder compared to an individual merchant/darkeyes/lighteyes. You are arguing against something I never disagreed with. Several posts back when I mentioned the sharders as a faction I was speaking in the context of how this specific game played out. I wouldn't have guessed that you would grant a boon that was to remove a killing weapon that I didn't know what was, from a person that I didn't know who was So naturally I didn't ask and I suspect others didn't ask for similar reasons. It never really occurred to me that you might grant a blessing that directly removed someone else's blessing. *shrug* Putting that particular line in white text, and the line in my previous post was a mistake, so yes it was good that you mentioned it.

In that case, the rule for the killing item is fundamentally broken for this game. Don't get me wrong here, I actually really like the idea of having to sacrifice one of your team-members to get a kill but in this game it is horribly unbalanced. Let's compare what it can do for a sharder with what it can do for a none sharder. For a non-sharder it can be used to kill an enemy at a heavy cost. In another game you might have a good chance at guessing who on your team and the opposing team had important roles so that you would have a reasonably good chance of hitting someone more valuable on their team than whoever you killed on your own team. But due to the extreme difficulty of gathering information and making deductions in this game the odds of the net benefit being in your favour are very close to even. So a non-sharder could only really use it when they really wanted someone dead. If he was wrecking his chances of winning with that faction please keep in mind that it is just as serious for non-sharders and they don't have a second faction to still have a chance with afterwoulds. Now let us consider it in the hands of a sharder. They can use it exactly as the non-sharders can with the same benefits and disadvantages but significantly better as they still have a faction to win with. But they can also use it once they have decided which faction they has the better chance of winning. When that happens they are getting 2 kills every round. On top of that, due to the lack of information in the game (yeah here we are again) it is very difficult for anyone to work out who is making the kills to stop them. If they knew that they had to be from one of the factions they were killing that could help the members of that faction work out who it is, but nobody else would have a clue and if the GB in the faction starts killing off his own faction to try to kill the blade-wielding sharder the faction is going to run out of members in no time flat. Basically it can be a somewhat useful but highly risky tool for a non-sharder but it's an incredibly potent, almost game-breaking tool for a sharder. I like the idea alright, but in my opinion it just doesn't work well for this game. I know I keep talking about the problems, sorry about that. But that is what seems the most useful. A problem or imbalance that is never mentioned is unlikely to get fixed and quite likely to happen again.

I am aware of that option, the disadvantage is that it notifies you for every thread rather than just every game, and that could get a little annoying. Especially if we do get to a point where we have multiple games running at a time. It is certainly an option though.

Ah good, going to do it properly then

You can get a physical copy currently, you can get it from the crafty games website. Personally I think it's quite good and well worth the purchase, but then again I am a bit of a MAG fanboy so I do have a little bias here. I'm trying to get some images uploaded, please hold Come on silly phone, connect to the computer. Here we are: Yay for dropbox!

Just Team Sanderson and 17S admins Oh it isn't just 17Shard admins Curse this site's lack of inquisitor smileys =P On a more on topic note: The comments here are confusing me slightly, did anyone see if Brandon turned at exactly 3000? I would downvote a post to check then correct it with another post, but I cannot bring myself to do that. Did you know that the list contains the title for every rep level up to 1535? 0_o I had initially thought we would still be on rough areas for anything above 800ish at this point.

No brass love I play the trumpet and sing (mostly classical and musical theater). I generally don't do both at the same time ; )

I disagree. The feedback you can provide will be different and it probably won't be as detailed or focused on rule balancing as some of the older players, but we certainly aren't just trying to cater for "old hands" here and the perspective of newer players is very useful to future GMs. What worked well for you? What was fun? What wasn't fun? What was confusing? All of that and any other insights you have can be very valuable and really, Sanderson Elimination is pretty young still, some of use have experience playing werewolves or mafia irl before this and Meta has played it online elsewhere. But the way we are running games here is still pretty new and constantly changing tldr; Your feedback == useful. Yeah, I basically always use equivalence signs nowadays, = is an assignment dangit! =P

Just another thought. If people want I will set up a ListTM in a new thread that's a mailing list of sorts. So people can post in the thread asking to be added to (or removed from) the list and whenever recruitment for a new game starts up I'll shoot a pm to everyone on the list to let them know. I look here at least a couple of times a day even when I am not actively playing (generally due to being dead) so I wouldn't have a problem getting it done shortly after the games went up. I think this could help prevent people from missing recruitment. I would also include a quick description of the game in the pm for those who don't play in most games, but would like to stay informed in case one took their fancy. What do people think? Would this be useful? I think it would be, but I am wrong on occasion ; )

Congrats moodle!

I...am going to take that as a compliment Ah. The Nightwatcher, gotcha. If 1 of Lyla or Khiriq had voted with us we would have brought it to a tie. If they both did we could have got a little vengance on our way out. We still would have lost though, that much was inevitable at that point =P

First up: this was fun Thankyou Rubix/Wilson for running it. Heh, seriously? So glad to know you guys care. I'm curious as to what proportion of those votes were sharders. I'm going to guess that an ardent defended me at least 1 cycle then. Also, fun fact. Take a look at my member title And now we get to the discussion of the rules/mechanics. While I enjoyed the game I cannot say that it is the kind that I would prefer to play. It was extremely difficult to judge anyone's motivations or to figure out what roles and alignments people have and in my mind this is the very core of Elimination games. The only people you could really learn enough about to try to figure out were those in your own doc and while it certainly could be said that we all should have been talking to eachother in the main thread more (excluding 17s) the way the rules work discourages this and it shouldn't be surprising that that didn't happen. About the nightwatcher. *sigh* the nightwatcher is fun, don't get me wrong. But the boons and curses make it even harder to work out players roles and alignments through reason and manipulation as anything can change completely at any time. Beyond that the nightwatcher is very arbitrary and impossible to balance. While Magam's curse could have been a problem for him if the sharders weren't all working together to win as a team or if eventually they ran out of merchants to sacrifice as the game went it was more like another major blessing. Making the sharders able to kill a merchant and another every night (provided an ardent didn't block them) is far more powerful than any role in the game. On the flipside the darkeyes "blessings" were useless at best and counterproductive at worst. While I would certainly admit that it was the darkeyes fault that Ashiok's and Rengar's curses were incompatible like that the boons and curses they were given just about sealed the 17th shards victory. I'm not railing against your game, just trying to provide constructive criticism and I will openly admit that I am to some degree biased by my personal dislike of chance and love of strategy and manipulation. I personally love the core game of reasoning, deduction and manipulation and I felt that this game stripped away a lot of that through too many layers or rules (some of which we could not even know about) and chance and restrictions on information. Some people may well prefer games that do that but I find it makes them more boring and more based on chance than skill. If you think I am being a crotchety old elitist, let me know =P One other comment. You made a ruling early that we weren't allowed to post lists of who was in our faction so as not to make it ridiculously easy to find the sharders. This feels like sticking a bandaid on a sword cut. It kind of works but it leaves things very unclear as to what we can do. Can we post lists of players in pm? In the dead doc? (Which I am guessing they did). Can we declare the allegiances of players one at a time or a couple at a time? If we can, how is that really any different to being able to post lists except for taking slightly longer and being more annoying. The merchants, darkeyes and lighteyes really need to work together to discover who the sharders are or they won't stand a chance, but this rule crippled our ability to do so and left it very unclear what we actually could do and I think this was a major part of why that discussion didn't happen. There was almost no communication in the thread because the main things we needed to say we couldn't. We were reduced to simply declaring a single faction as the most powerful and saying we should go after them and that, functionally, doesn't work very well. Honestly I am not entirely sure how this could be fixed, but it is a flaw with the way that the sharders are implemented. I hope that gives you some food for thought. Good game guys, see you in future games Edit: Actually, one more thought. I am not, (and I don't think I ever will be) in favour of hidden vote tallies. There are 3 things players can use to puzzle out other players roles and allegiances: 1: What they say, 2: How they vote and 3: What the role actions do. 1) In this game barely anything that wasn't pure rp was said outside the docs. So practically we could only use this on the sharders of our own docs. Except for the sharders who, having access to all the docs could actually do something of any significance with this. 2) Hidden vote tallies means that we have no idea how people are voting and can do nothing to deconstruct their motives. I have no problem with voting being hidden, it has its upsides and downsides and I kind of like both hidden and in-thread. However, the actual vote tallies, in my opinion, should never ever be hidden as it takes away our best tool for reasoning, logic and deduction. 3) In a normal game we have some idea what happened, the vote tally shows the effect of vote altering roles and the writeup shows how each person died, or was protected. This game we only knew who died and especially with the plethora of roles and abilities, some of which we didn't, couldn't know existed. So we couldn't deduce anything through this either. With all 3 of these techniques crippled or removed there was very little we could do other than try to use our abilities to best effect and hope for the best. Again, apologies if I sound over aggressive, just trying to provide feedback/insight. On a separate note: I am curious what happened in the final vote, if all the surviving non-sharders voted together we should have one the vote thanks to my worldsinging. Even if 1 of us didn't vote or voted for a different sharder we would have managed to win the vote.

I really would like to join, but recent experience shows that that would be a bad idea. At the moment I simply do not have the time and I don't want to sign up just to go inactive. I've barely managed to be active in Rubix's game except for this burst of activity at the end :/ I hope it goes well! Hopefully I will have time to join the next one.

Thanks If you wanted to know: So, yeah, I was really just trying to take from as many epic speeches as I could and make it a cohesive speech. So Sarams has taken a hit then? Sounds like a good target to me.

Leaving Rengar's cell Clanal walked to the empty square before the ruined temple. He paused for a moment, thinking. Then whispered intently, voice gaining confidence as he spoke "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. I will unite not divide. I will bring men together." He looked up and surveyed the destruction that lay before him, then he drew a deep breath and spoke. "Come!" he shouted, his strong voice filling the square and echoing down the alleys leading into the city. He waited a moment, then spoke again, "Come!" Slowly, warily, the survivors answered the summons, creeping into the square, keeping their distance and casting suspicious glances at eachother. The sharders were easy to pick out, they sauntered into the square, confident in their strength. It did not take long for the other survivors to arrive, there was Lyla, there Khiriq and there Atrus. So few! Clanal thought. He almost gave up then and there, but he had sworn to try and he would not stop till the last breath left his body. Facing the few survivors he spoke again, his voice quieter but no less intense. "Friend, lighteyes, merchants, lend me your ears. I did not summon you to bear the grievances of the dead, I summoned you to save the living. The voidbringers approach, they came out of the storm, burning our cities and killing our people. They come for us now and we must be ready to stand against them. You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. You and I have the courage to say to our enemies there is a price we will not pay, there is a point beyond which they must not advance. But there is a greater threat, one that comes from within. Amongst us now stand those who would see us all dead and our civilization brought to dust. They turned us against eachother, flamed the anger between us and brought us to our knees. We are all that is left. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother. We will be remembered in songs and legends to the end of time and worldsingers shall tell tales of our courage and strength. Together, we can face the monsters that beset us from without and within. Together we can drive them back to whence they came. We shall defend our selves against this threat, we shall not flag or fail. We shall fight on the plains, we shall fight in the streets, we shall fight on the very steps of the palace itself and we shall never surrender. A day may come when the courage of men fails, when the voidbringers drive us from our lands and burn our legacy to the ground, but it is not this day! This day we fight! Today, we face the monsters in our midst and bring the fight to them! Today, we are cancelling the desolation!" So it would help if you guys would actually post so we could talk about who to target...our only possible hope is to drop all conflict between us and work against the sharders together. (I put this in a new post because it is a very different post to the one above and it is kind of important that people see it, if that is a problem I apologize.) Good luck getting every reference in that speech ; )

....Game over man, Game over! Anyway, let me take a guess as to what happened here: -Jim Bob Dirt was killed for inactivity (best case scenario he was our ardent. Things are pretty bad when that is the best case.) -One of Bint and Twei was killed by the sharders, (or both, but if Rubix gave the sharders 2 killing weapons we can forget ever having a chance of winning). No-one but a sharder would have killed Twei, so we can guess that Bint was killed by the remaining GB amongst the Nobles and Merchants. I am reasonably sure you just killed our GB, that or Jim Bob was. I would also guess that Trahar did take a hit from the lynch, but we cannot be certain even of that. We should try to lynch Trahar again, if he was injured last time we might be able to kill him and we need every kill we can get. Odds are that we only have one killing role left among the nobles/merchants/darkeyes combined and that is if Twei wasn't a GB if he was we are out of killing roles and Rubix may as well call the game now. Maybe, maybe if we all work together we can survive this. But I doubt it. "Storms, I tried." I'll go think so more, but I don't see a way out of this. From what I can gather from the dead message, you're really not helping.