Robinski

Thanks so much for reading, Jorville. I hear what you say, and there have been various edits for the comments on this page. So, hopefully it's better now, but I'm always open to making more changes. I've tweaked this a little. Me neither! That's not like me. Now changed. Yes. Maybe I need to punch that up a bit in the first reference. I think I intended it to be a prop at first, but I've changed my mind. Edits made. Edited now. The iron is just for making the purse look heavy. Not important exactly, but it is where the attack comes from, will clarify. I've tried to tweak that up. nip = chaser, effectively. The first one I'll admit it's archaic, but I think it fits the tone of the story/setting. I'll keep it for now. Not really. I've tried to convey his intention to lie low until the meeting with the others. Updated, now shorter. Good call, thanks. I've rephrased this a bit, as others had an issue with it too. First of all, should be 'globe' - that's just a good, old-fashioned typo. Then it's just supposed to be the colour of his cloak. Above the head should make more sense knowing it's a globe of light, I hope. Ah, well now. My geography is 'borrowed' from a well-established source, but it's not copyrighted*, because it's not fictional. *I do have an issue when I submit this though, as I need to check my source for the image. I think it was Wiki-commons, but I'll need to check that. Interesting point though. For my first novel (which I wrote 35 years ago and finished 11 years ago), I did construct my own map and, as per your analysis, the setting was an island, not unlike Great Britain. QED Great comments, thank you. Great to have you back, @Jorville <R>

ROFL Oh dear; classic example of when to not use symbols /words when you don't know what they mean!

No, no. I do take it as a compliment (sadly?). I'm not sure I know what "" actually means. I thought it was kind of knowing acknowledgement, or bashful self-awareness? Perhaps not. *and if 'opinionated' is a synonym for 'qualified' then I'm qualified!!

Hi S, and thank you very much for the comments, and for reading right through. Much appreciated I'm really pleased, of course, that this version worked better for you. Absolutely down to all the great comments that I received from you kind people Yes, as was everyone, and with good reason. I think I've tidied it up now, and that it reads better, but we'll see when I get around to alpha reads. I've changed it a bit. I hope it reads better now. Thanks for the typo, and I dropped 'noisily' too. Will see how that plays. Hmm. Fair point about the lobstering. I'll stick with it for now, but good knowledge!! I was using 'too' in the sense that one pulls 'a door too', meaning almost closed. I appreciate that may be creating confusion though. I've changed it. "It’s not incorrect, just kind of interrupts the flow of the narrative in my head." - Noted. I'll keep it for now. When I start reading for flow and style, all this stuff will get a close reexamination. Awesome <punches the air> Aw, darn. I'm conflicted about it myself, to be honest. Almost changed it this morning when going through Fox's comments. I think I'm 53:47 in favour at the moment, but stats can go down as well as up. This didn't occur to me. Once I heard about them losing the house, I assumed they were too busy trying to survive to visit. Before that, I wasn't sure they even knew where he was and why he was missing. Interesting. I mentioned above that I'm reshaping this instigating conflict a bit, so hopefully it will gain more 'universal' appeal. I got too caught up in the voice to realize, but after thinking about it, I do agree with Fox. He makes a choice to work with them, but also made it sound like it was his only option. He showed a little more agency at the end telling them to do the heist before the big party, but otherwise, yes, things have been comming to him and taking him along. He hasn't acted with much independent agency. I've sought to improve his agency after going through Fox's comments, so hopefully this works a bit better now, but I need to be conscious of it going forward. Thanks for underlining this for me. Great comments. Thank you, S. All fired up for Chapter 4 now

Hey Mandamon, thank you so much for these comments. Exceedingly helpful, especially this one, where I think you have hit the nail on the head. I did mention very early on that J had missed O's deadline because of J staying too long no the road. While that might be WRS, it doesn't really matter, because you're right--of course--when you say the whole relationship/reaction thing is confusing. I need to fix the relationship from the start, but what I'd like to do is forge ahead through the story, hoping that the reader can accept the situation for now. Having said that, I think I need to bring about a meeting between J and either his dad, mum or both. Actually, the more I think about this, the more I see a big, old retcon taking shape. I'll seek to clarify. J had iron in the back to make it look heavier and thereby dupe the butcher. The back was only salted with actual coins. I will need to clarify. I'll need to fix this. I'm thinking some kind of significant 'disaster' with the boat that needed major repair. Exceptional expenditure. It's not that the family rely on J in normal circumstances, although he supplements the household income. As a parallel of the UK, there was a time when there were very few people of colour on these shores. Maybe seamen and explorers would have seen them, but to the person in the street, regardless of their reaction, people off colour must have stood out. It's intended as an illustration of the scale of personal mobility of this society, and probably the world in general. Do you think it's a problem? No, it's just her addressing him in a polite way. I'll try an clarify. Probably have him responding to her as "ma'am". G explained in prison that all his family's land was taken by the lord, who had decided to open a new mine. This comment will stand even better than it does now when I retcon J's situation. I'll explain more later: ideas still taking shape. Most excellent comments, thank you. As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to tidy up the motivation, to the effect that J has money to contribute to the payment of the debt, but gets arrested before he has time to pass it over. He's cut it too fine and now O is charging interest, that is why the family doesn't have enough to repay. The interest mounts punitively, leaving them well short. I might need to shorten J's sentences a bit. I will include, I think, a family visit to the jail. I think this sort of approach will make the stakes more immediate, and also clearer. That's the aim, and also, I will make J's position and contribution to the family clearer. Invaluable comments, thank you, man. <R>

Hey @Majestic Fox, reading your LBLs now. [week early for the meeting] - It may be that I changed this after you read the first bit. Ch point was in case they were followed for a day or two on their release. Maybe it's going overboard. Maybe only 3 days or something. [family at the harbour] - I'm sure I cited that they were living on the boat now, or did I remove that bit? (argh). Also, [waiting for the Gull] - Maybe I've broken the link here. Will review in the edit. [something numinous] - It's coming. It's not all grim, I hope!! [kept the sheep from lambs] - Quite right on the exposition/pov issue. I've edited. [where did that guy come from?] - The idea is that J's brother is working in the kitchen at this inn in return for using it as a bolt hole to evade the constabulary. [purpose of the scene] - it was to confront J with a member of his family. Take your point, but I'll see what the other think. [more visceral description > soup] - @industrialistDragon provided me with fabulous comments about the boiling of bones and making of soup that will lead me to editing some of there references. I don't think it will hurt the visceralitousness of the scene though. [knowledge of modern story tropes] - not really, and I've edited this bit a little. [insufficient wonder in the use of magic] - I've punched this bit up. There was an earlier instance where he used hearing to detect the thugs approaching the butcher's shop, but that probably slid past as well, as it wasn't greatly played up. This bit is better know, thank you. Hopefully it's good enough, but you'll need to wait for the alpha-read; it you're inclined. [G being tight-lipped] - I just meant to show that he was tense, so I'll just say that. I didn't mean to imply here that he had something to hide. [more jewels and coin on hand > we know this, right?] - Maybe I'm trying to be too detailed, and also overcomplicating, but I didn't want to have this argument in the prison. Previously, it was just a burglary in the stately house. G is now suggesting they hit it during this big, local event. Hence, greatly increased reward, but considerably greater risk, which is J's objection. [scene not engaging to being with] - harrumph. Eh, I've tried to go back and add a dimension about known felons not consorting, to add tension. [D keeping her word] - I've removed that and talked about her letting them keep their gains and their freedom. I've punched the magic up a bit too in terms of his use of awareness, and I've been specific that D wants them to acquire something from the estate that she needs, while they are about their general larceny. Thank you for the great LBLs, Fox. I really needed that. Off to make more revisions for Mandamon's comments

Hey, Mr. Fox, fantastic comments, as usual. This one is absolutely spot on, and I will need to address this. I don't see it changing the flow of events, but there's not excuse for me not to retrofit some instances of him having more of a roll in pushing events forward. Thank you so much. Still to go through the LBLs, which I will do shortly

I would also like to submit on Monday, please. Slots permitting.

So glad to have you back in the fold. Let's get on with these comments!! Not doing LBLs, because I'm not sure we're at that stage yet. Scene 5 The phrase "business wing" put me off. It feel modern. I don't think a house in this pseudo-historical setting (which I analogise to would have a business wing (which I read as 'business centre', like some hotels have). The scene is rather background heavy at the beginning, but I don't mind. The language, of course, could be smoother, but first draft get-out-of-jail-free card applies The encounter with her sister worked well enough. I wasn't entirely convinced about certain logistics of the action, but again, this can be smoothed out. Specifically, how can the sweep of a blade go over her head from the room if she hasn't stepped through the doorway? As a fan, I'm forced to draw a link between the 'bond' and the extensive use of bonds between warders and Aes sedai in Wheel of Time. I'm surprised they don't know about the bond, when they lived in the society which had the bond (presumably), and I'm guessing knew other people who have it? Three separate instances of "Oh, M....," on the same page. Two is bad enough. Very repetitive. Are E's gods not M's gods, then? M speaks about E as if they are of a separate race, but then mentions that she (M) would not forsake 'her' people. There seems to be inconsistency in M's references to her position, and I mean more so than someone conflicted about it. "The People’s identity was everything" - and yet M referred to E's gods, as if they were not also M's. "He was handsome and charming" - not in my book he wasn't. Scene 6 Personally, I think a 'mural' is on a wall, and a ceiling painting is a 'fresco'. The French word for wall being 'our' (from the Latin, no doubt). I'm confused by the discussion about the contract. Mainly, I think, because of there being personal pronouns in areas where it's not clear who is being referred to. When the speaker says "They were so focused on the fruit contract...", I don't know who 'they' is. This was a feature of the discussion between M and E, as I wasn't sure sometimes which 'she' was being referred to. The confusion extends a bit because E isn't introduced for quite a while after she starts speaking, and then she uses a false name, and then there's the name of H's escort, which seems irrelevant, as he plays not part in the scene. I appreciate that you need him there, but I don't really want a useless name to puzzle over. You might use it as a way to illustrate H's mean character by having her ignore her escort, and not even introduce him. M ends up looking weak in this scene, needing E to rescue her. E seems a more animated and resourceful character at this point, which tends to make her more interesting. A.M. must be a card-carrying member of Villains Anonymous, surely, with a name like that. I mean A ~ Avarice; Mel = Mal = 'bad' + Crow? Certainly, I don't buy M's enthusiasm at his arrival and the prospect of dancing with him. It seems very forced and insincere. It seems to me that the way M talks about 'home' and the fact that it is not here, tends to reveal her subconscious feelings about whether or not to stay here, i.e. not. Bah, I'm itching to comment on the grammar, but I think I've done fairly well in not, up to the this point. Some of the wording is off, like M looking 'dreadful' at the prospect of talking to guests, and balconies are exclusively 'upstairs', I am pretty certain. I still lack emotional investment in M's reaction to A. She think of him as being a good match, and good breeding stock: these are not romantic reactions. The scream was a bit much for me, the syntax, I mean. The verbal 'battle' with H was entertaining, although I think the barbs need polishing, as I am sure you will do. I think there is maybe there is a touch of the 'age' of the comments (language) varying a bit. OMG, A is such a villain!! he has done this, surely, him being a sorcerer and all. The language of her last bit with her father makes M seem very passive. "She watched as He retched...", and "By the time she got to the balcony she saw her father was laying prone". What I'm trying to get at is that the language places her as observing things happening, rather than being involved. Summary Despite various issues highlighted, and first draft 'drawbacks', I'm still enjoying following the character, and I'm sure edits can strengthen the story, and the narrative. One thing I would like to see in future version above pretty much everything else is for M's emotions and reactions to be more convincing and therefore satisfying. Still interesting work though. I'm always a fan of intrigue, and I think you're managing that pretty well, and no doubt will be able to punch it up more in future submission and versions. Take A, for example. I'm hoping that M will start to have more doubts about him as we go forward. The duke's son veers dangerously towards Elend Venture from Mistborn in his set up (bookish, distant, nerdy). I think that's something to be wary of. <R>

Hi ID, thank you so much for reading, and I am so sorry it's taken me this long to reply. Hmm, yes. Okay. I'm happy to accept the balance if information flow is maybe not right yet, but I'm going to press on to the end (having revised the opening twice at this point) then take the thing as a whole. Right. I'll look at her intro again. Her back story is coming, but her being secretive about it doesn't help me any!! Awesome! Thank you so much for this in-depth soup analysis, ID; it's prefect Maybe it goes a bit deep into the soup than entirely warranted, but I'll update the soup reference with some of the tastier details. Really appreciate your comments here. Very helpful. Thanks! <R>

Thank you @Majestic Fox, much appreciated. I've been through the LBLs and made some tweaks. Also, it changed a bit from other comments above. I've not slashed anything out in a significant way, notwithstanding your points about dragging. I'll keep them for now and see how the whole plays out. Thank you again

I had a boat like that... Stupid boat.

Well, I've got tuppence that says, if it's going to be a novel, you're better going back to TGO and FINISHING IT!!!!!! The idea, if I remember correctly, was to do a shorter piece so that you could get something finished, but you seem to have wormed your way out of that So, if you're going to write a novel, better to write your passion project? That's my take. But please, please please, for the love of G.O.D. can we get through the bally thing to the end so that you can go back to the beginning again and edit it? Don't you dare go back to the start of TGO now. DON'T YOU DARE

Hey, good to get another read at this. I've sent to LBLs back by email. Chapter "first" Good, snappy introduction, maybe almost a bit too brief, but I like how you rattle straight into it, and get some of the major elements out there. This will certainly pull me forwards. I think the description (what there is) could be a bit stronger, more vibrant. Consider involving other senses. Does the alien smell of anything? What about the inside of the car? Chapter "second" I expressed doubt about the delivery time in C1 (20 minutes). Case in point here. If Di has to park the Ho, walk to the park bench, have a conversation, get back to the Ho, drive to the diner; that will take 20 minutes alone, never mind four other deliveries. Well, certainly can't fault you for brevity. In the first version there was some kind of reveal about Di/Bo, I think. I kind of missed that more substantial element to their meeting, but I still learned or consolidated some stuff about setting, etc., and Di seems to have clear impetus to move forward through the story. Chapter "third" "celebrate a successful heist" - Why do they all have to be criminals? It seems kind of obvious and a bit 'low-hanging fruit' to be honest. I'd rather the hybrid wanted to go into a song-and-dance number because he just won a crossword competition, or collected $10 from each player because it's his birthday. Who is Marge? "Time slows to a pace that would even be torturous to people with patience" - Talking of torture; someone call Gramnesty International "O may be a death sentence..." - This is the first I've heard of it, but Di is about to use it with me understanding the stakes. Summary I enjoyed this, but it was so fast paced that I found it almost insubstantial in places. I think I would have been more satisfied with just a bit more detail here and there. Not necessarily with the setting, but could be characters, or explanation of certain actions or artefacts. This said, if you are heading towards another place where the bulk of the action will take place, maybe it's not a bad thing, but I still think a little embellishing would improve this first part. On the characters, there is very little to latch onto with the side characters. It's a bit disappointing after we learned more about them in the first version. I feel like we got a better picture of R before, and indeed of A and Z, now there's very little to make them characters in my mind. While we get an idea of how D reacts to thing, we're not really sure why, or what motivations are driving D. There a remark about leaving the planet, and references to D being treated badly by Mom. Is it enough to carry me on to the next part? Definitely. Would I like a bit more background in the first bit in order to become more deeply invested in D sooner? Yes. It's still a good read but, for me, I think it's swung too far towards brevity. <R>

Sooo, I finally got here. Sorry for the delay. Firstly, I like the title, it makes me ask questions like what is the city, what is demon and why is it there? Chapter 1 Good first line: I'm intrigued. I find the second line less clear. Is the demon in him our outside being held out? I really like the special conditions for keeping the demon bound. Nice. I know you don't want LBLs, but I'm going to objection to 'murking' right here, right now. That and, it's 'mirking' anyway, Papa Tolkein said so "their lifeless gaze mocking his inability to finish them" - ooh, nice. There's some really nice writing here. The bit about him going to the door; nailed it. I don't think a month is a long time to be at capacity. Also, I'd caution again dismissing a character descriptively as 'fat man'. I've done that in the past, but it's insufficiently generic, and borderline size-ist, I think. "malleable eyes" - ...<shudder> not the right word, not the right word. There's a big disconnect, I think, when she asks him what will he do. I don't follow the train or thought/conversation here. I like the characterisation. If anything, her's is better than his. I feel like I have a clearer idea of who she is than him. Perhaps that's as it should be though, as the m/c should be revealed in more depth and a somewhat longer time frame. Anyway, I'm engaged. I like the style, I like the feel and the concept is interesting, although I'm still unclear on many details. I will note that the punishment for losing a demon seems quite extreme. I think I feel this because I don't really understand the consequences, or how demons behave. For all I know at the moment, it's like the genie from Aladdin. Chapter 2 Gah. Burning iron? Not sure about that. Sipping lemon juice? Ziiiiinnnngggggg! I reckon his face would implode. Maybe lemon cordial? I'm going to buy you a bag of hyphens for Christmas. "stench of charred meat" - Is he a vegetarian? I'm pretty partial to the stench of charred meat myself. More seriously, I'm not sure of the tech level now. I was assuming standard fantasy, but the use of the word 'train' has me confused. "helping himself the scraps of Seb's pastry" - I didn't realise Seb was sitting down, I thought he was walking through the market. "his blackened teeth showing in his rotten mouth" - and yet he has a crimson cape, which sounds very dashing (and expensive)? What other seeker? Please, can I just have one? - 'want' > 'wont'. Okay, I certainly was pulled through the last part of this chapter by the encounter with the old woman, which was good. Pretty untidy, as you promised(!), but entertaining. There were some connections that I simply didn't follow, but I'm sure you can tidy those up. Specifically, the biggest confusion I had was at the end. What happened? Did he take the orb with him? I thought she was challenging him to open it in her presence. His obsession with pork seems strange. I didn't really believe that. he's at risk of death and he has this appetite that he's willing to set aside his most urgent task to walk all the way home for a plate of pork? Seems unlikely to me. Summary I am definitely entertained. There is a clear style in your writing, I think, which no doubt has to develop some more personality in edits and practice, but I can see the DNA of The Green Ocean here, I think. Not sure the m/c is all that compelling yet. His plight is pretty urgent, and engaging, but he's a bit of a blank. I suppose he showed some sympathy for his assistant, but in a sort of cold way. Clearly, this will be a lot stronger when it's edited a bit, but I certainly has my attention. The biggest failing so far, I think, is not to build up the significance of the demon escaping. There are some passing references, but I'd like to know more about it. Maybe one or two more noted example of colourful incidents around escaped demons? Nice work here though. I'm enjoying it, despite the fact that bone marrow seems to be significant <R>

Ha-ha, nope. Got way too much going on already. Maybe next year

Comments... I don't understand this thing about testing the Ben, and being set up for failure. Three-ish pages in, and I must say I'm not exactly gripped by the situation. You mention M's career being at stake, but I'm not sure how invested i am in that, especially given that I know how it turns out (in the long term). "It was filthy" - Eh, what, why? Where has this come from? I've had no sense that M was het up about social injustice. It's not been a theme in Society, as far as I remember, or a facet of their character anywhere that I can remember. "They would have appreciated the architecture, if it had been made of something more resilient than warped wood" - Huh? This seems highly improbable to me. The archetecture will be severly limited by the warped materials, which will lose a massive amount of integrity surely. I'm just not convinced that something archetecturally significant could be made from it. "They would prove their worth to the E and to Councilor F." - I like this, but ending on the socialites felt like ending on the least important bit. "There is a danger to the Imp." - Is there? Why? I don't see this. "had never heard such changes" - Having been faced with O's drains, and P's genetic engineering, I'm still not seeing the threat on an Imperium scale. I think this needs more selling. For me, things really start to motor on Page 9, and started to pick up into that section when they went into the house. "This is how three Symphonies interact under one influence" - Not in all cases though, surely. Has none ever survived beyond infanthood? This is a great parting shot (from the house), but I wasn't clear if the parent was dead. M didn't make any effort to save them, but I feel I don't have closure on that aspect. How does M know that the child is 'transformed' (sic) somewhere else? "What if it returns?" - Dun, dun, DUNNNN!!!! (Future villain!!!!!!) "One is eager to learn more of this one’s offer" - I feel like the end has lost some of its snap. Was there mention of 'a society' before? Did it finished on a line of dialogue? (Checks... it did.) I felt like the last version of the last line was better (Checks... it's the same!). Okay, will in that case I think the last line could be stronger, and leave me with more of a glow. In summary, I think this is certainly better, but could be punched up more in some places. I'm fine once we get to the house, then the ending might be punched up some more. The opening scenes, I think, need greater stakes, or more paranoia, or something. Still, I did enjoy reading it more this time, I think. <R>

Here is Part 3. Any and all comments much appreciated. I trust that my fading out the earlier text is working alright when you open the doc? It's just easier to submit that way, but let me know if it's bugging you, as I certainly don't want you to feel that you need to read anything earlier, if it's coming through as 'black' text. Kind regards, Robinski

I'd just like to apologise for my abject performance this week. It's been a difficult week for me on various levels. I will get to the critiques, I promise, and it's not unusual for me to be late in the week, let's be honest , but I've also not got me writing to where I want to submit it. I take some consolation from the fact that I haven't blocked a slot for someone else. Given where we are now, realistically I'm not going to submit now this week, but I'd like to put my Part 3 up on Monday, unless there are 5 others, in which case I will step back.

I still have several stages of pre-approval to go through with the Admin and Leisure Pursuits Committee, so I will come back to you on that. Initial indications are good

I had a look at this and it seems interesting, although there is more detail to go on there, I think. As a con-noob, I'm thinking I might try it as a dry run before REcon. Sorry, I think Worldcon is the more conventional title

Thank you for the tip, ID!!

Lol, it will be great to have you back, J