Robinski

Heh, heh - interesting question. Flip you for it? Just kidding. Well, I do have a couple of middle names that I could use. Since you have a march on me, I presume you've staked out 'Robin Duncan'. Maybe I'll go Crawford Duncan then. Or I could fall back on my second choice, which you'll see I've reserved in my 'signature' - i.e. Buck Dangerquest.

Yeah, on smoothness, I always think of it as not noticing the writing, but being carried along by the story. On that point, there are various grammar issues that I flagged many of. Word choice is a particular sore thumb for me when it doesn't ring true. On a bigger issue, I mentioned the set up. Boy-goes-into-forbidden-cave-and-encounters-monster is a pretty common / well trodden path. For me, you need to bring something original to it that grasps the reader's attention and i didn't really get that. if you have some twist to drop into this trope, I would consider doing it sooner to really grab the reader's attention. Also, the suspense kind of drained away when he encountered the monster because there were almost no details.

Interesting start to the story, I did struggle a bit with the age of the protagonist. I'm still not sure. I wasn’t bowled over by the set up, but I get a decent sense of dread. The description of the alien-thing was very vague. I don’t know if it’s humanoid or what. I had a debate with someone in a writing group about how much is revealed to the eye (or the memory) in a moment of panic like that, but I can’t help feeling there would be something more than we got. I won't repeat all the stuff about showing-vs-telling and lack of setting. Interested to read the next section. ---------------------------------------------------------------- I'm three paragraphs in and I’ve got a pretty decent chill going on. I would not say that my blood is curdling, but I'm certainly apprehensive. “No, I definitely saw them smirking when I went inside” – at this point, I'm wondering why they were playing ball near the cave if it has such a fearsome reputation. “I pondered thought about my friends.” – The other form is ‘I pondered my friends’, but it sounds too sophisticated and grown-up for the presumed age of the child. “Not that I’d seen many, but from what little I saw had seen, caves had random shapes” “too perfect to be a work of nature” – This seems like a mature phrasing for a child of what, 12 / 13 maybe? “And why did the people in town, deny us from visiting this part of the mountain?” – This grammar ain’t right, but I'm unsure what to replace it with. I think you need to change the construction more widely. “I never understood their reason” – This bothers me, because you don’t give the reason, so the reader can’t make a judgement. “The cave had this terrifying vibe about it, like a bottomless hole waiting to swallow anyone who stared for too long” – I feel like this contradicts the kid’s inability to understand why they're not ‘allowed’ to go there. “Only my footsteps echoed through ‘from’ or ‘off’ the cave walls” – I think. “There were only rocks everywhere I looked” – This does not describe the construction of the cave, but sounds like rocks on the floor. I presume the cave is formed of rock, in which case I would say ‘only rock’, not ‘only rocks’. “I heard a sound coming from up ahead” – awkward phrasing. “and I was plunged into utter obscurity darkness” – I still don’t think this is the word. When I read this, I hear ‘anonymity’. “Each beat risking to almost breaking my chest” – or ‘risked breaking’, maybe. I found the deluge of questions understandable, but quite annoying to read. “I was seized by an awful feeling of impending danger.” – Onto Page 2, it feels like we've had impending danger since the start of the story, so this seems weird. “waiting to hear any for the slightest sound” – awkward construction, I think. “I remained frozen for a few moments, waiting to hear any sound, but there was only silence. No sign of anyone there.” – Personally, I don’t think you need this, it’s obvious. “I hurriedly pointed it forwards toward the front.” “There was no-one No one was there.” – Am I getting super picky? I don’t think so. “Color returned to my skin” – How does he know this? I doubt anyone thinks about the colour of their own skin under stress like this. “I passed out” – This bothered me. I doubt a person registers it like this when passing out, but only realises afterwards. “Later on, I woke up lying on the ground” – Again, I doubt the character has much notion of how long has passed, or even thinks in terms of time in such a moment. “like a hurtling wall” – I guess I have a boring, logical mind (Jim), but walls don’t hurtle. “rang out throughout the cave” – too many outs. “Your insolence need must have a price” – or ‘needs to’. “there was a reason for why they denied deterred us from coming here” – maybe ‘deterred’ is the word I was searching for earlier on.

Firstly, thank you for your patience (I hope!) with this late short story submission. Pressure of work, etc. (mumble). And it's a bit over 5K, sorry about that too - I figured it was within limits of variation. If you have time to read it, I'm hoping for the usual comments, basically anything you find to say about is fine by me. Thanks for reading.

But you were writing, even though it got cut. I accept that it's not always going to be Grade A, but sometimes you may need to apply BICHOK and write through it. I think it's this week, but take your point. I'm afraid my work will always have to come first. Gotta feed the machine, and the machine is hungry.

That was really what was behind my flipant remark. You can't start acting like a professional once you start getting paid. You have to act like one first in order to get paid.

I have a novel technique that you might try.... Just STOP freekin' procrastinating and get on with it!!!!!!!!! ;op

2 in 5,200 - lol, but one of them is only a couple of paragraphs, so I'm exaggerting really.

Great news - congratulations. I think King's right, about the need for this thread. I actually started one about a year ago, and the idea was for people to share their experiences of submitting / rejection / acceptance, etc. since it's not something that we talk about much. For example, I appreciate that maybe you can't reveal much in detail, but I'm sure many peeps would be interested to know how many words, genre, market, etc., or if not specifics, then some notes on your experience with submitting and succeeding. Same goes for anyone else with experience to share on this subject. Congrats again.

Hey King, The story was 7,500 in first draft. I was going to submit it last week, but started editing it the week before and that was when it came off the rails. I mean, if I'm not convinced, why would anyone else be, right? Anyway, I think I've cracked it. I'm now 50% through another edit - the story is now 5,200 words and I have simplified it a bit. Mandamon will probably laugh at this, but I've cut one of three p.o.v.s (yes, three), and taken out a layer of misdirection. I think it's better now and I will aim to submit it this evening - then y'all can be the judge (and jury, and the other thing...).

This is almost exactly, to the letter, the trouble I'm having with the short story I'm planning to submit tomorrow. I've finished the story in draft and am now editing, have got about 2/3 through and am struggling to finish the edit. In my case, it's because I don't quite believe I've nailed it. I feel the deficiencies of the story and know it's not as good as it should be. Hence, I have doubts about submitting it. Sounds like your story should be a shoe-in. Are you sure there isn't something about it that is bugging you?

Another solid chapter, I enjoyed the breathless chase from the pond. I liked that the boy was completely disoriented. Not everyone likes that chaotic, scattergun style, but I think it works nicely. Various grammar things, including a fair few missing words, which I think was perhaps intended as a style thing to some degree maybe – if so, I didn’t like it. Best way to keep the reader in the story is for the writing to be ‘invisible’. The only other problem I thought recurred was several instances where the inner monologue felt repetitive, which I’ve noted below, but examples are I think the boy ‘putting away till later’ thoughts of his father. Also, it felt like there are a lot of references of the pattern round the doors. I guess you need it, but it seemed like every door they went through had the pattern. All-in-all, nothing major, I'm still comfortably on board and enjoying the story, and like the pacing, the characters and the setting. ------------------------------------------------------ Hanging on the Low Point “I wondered if Trahaearn and Mrs. Caughthron...”, “I wondered if it took Joanna” – these are close together and the second one sounds a bit repetitive. I wonder if you might substitute one of the words. “I’m just saying people are weird” – this seems like a modern expression to me. “a little glass bottle and a little knife” – awkward because of the repetition, suggest replacing one of the ‘little’s. “You want her to stay this way? It’s the flowers that make all this bearable. She won’t get up ‘til she stops feeding ‘em.” – There’s something incongruous here. I think the middle statement is inconsistent with the other two – or it feels that way. Rosa is preventing her own release by feeding the flowers, does that make it bearable for Joanna? Surely not, because they are the cause of the Rosa’s torpor. Do they make it bearable for Rosa? I don’t see how, for the same reason. “The room was silent again. She picked up his worn leather shoes and walked over to the door again.” also “A dull clump sounded as they landed on a tall pile of other worn leather shoes.” - identical? Other sounds wrong to me. “concerned about the violin” “He had his own two eyes when he walked into the music room, but by the time I tumbled out of the violin here at Mrs. Caughthron’s, he was wearing that sash” – Dah, dah, DAH! Nice tension builder, another step on the road to revealing the mystery of the title. “worn leather shoes that made me feel anxious. It didn’t feel too good, so I pushed it down to save it for later” – feels like repetition, both his feelings and pushing it down to save for later, which he did with thoughts of his father. I feel this repetition stands out. “small a movement” “slowing digging it out. It was slender but quite long. The soil got moist and dense as we got further down” – it’s only a carrot, it’s taking them an awful long time to dig it out, even carefully. Also, ‘sprout’ made me think of the Brussels variety, not carrots. “A feather and a button” – I feel that we’ve seen this already, but I can’t remember. Maybe just me, or you might want to reminder the reader, unless I'm misremembering, of course. DEEP “a pair of white and black ones” – I feel I need more description of the shoes. Are they patent leather, suede, moleskin? I don’t know, I just felt I couldn’t picture them. “Maybe she’d stitched him up before” – lol. “The last thing I was given before we left was a bunch of fresh vegetables that Joanna and I had collected from the garden that Joanna and I had collected.” “If I were out in the fields like this with Papa” “But the ones I had were light enough, I almost didn’t feel them” – this should sound contrary to the heavier ones. Actually, reading on, I think there is overmuch detail about the shoes. “There’s a creek running through the fields which pools up there” – Generally, water does not run uphill without the assistance of man. “The waves above looked like fish scales” – huh? “The sound set an urgency upon me, and I shot upright as quickly as I could” “I could see that the water was still. Leaves were circulating, but it was mostly calm” – strikes me that the water can’t be still if the leaves are circulating. Mostly calm, is not the same as still. “At the word ‘bottom’ my heart skipped. I don’t know why, but I hadn’t even thought of going down under the water. My legs froze and I didn’t want to move at all” – I think it would be relevant to mention at this point whether the boy can swim or not. “Trahaearn began treading in the water” – there are a few phrases that feel ‘overwritten’, i.e. excessively wordy for the sake of... something. This is one, for me. I think more words than necessary just make the reader think about the writing rather than what the characters are doing. “All at once, the tree emptied of crows and they flew down upon the crowd of dark bodies from the grove and scattered them” – There are a few instances of missing words that change the meaning of the sentence, like here, it isn’t the tree that flew down. “but I lay myself and looking up at the tree again” – I thought at first that he was out of the tree and on the ground, but I don’t think that is what’s intended. “all the way back where we had come” – I don’t follow the sense of this. “I couldn’t tell if my eyes were open or not” – Excellent line. “Near the trees and bushes and places with shadow, dark faces all around” – I don’t like the double ‘and’ but, more than that, I found the line a big vague for the clincher of the chapter.

Another excellent point - recall your horror / amazement when 'that thing' happened to Luke near the end of Empire Strikes Back.

The key, for me, is to write it as if they are going to succeed, or at least see no reason that they won't succeed, only to have success snatched away. They should have a plan that is plausible and seems to the reader likely to succeed, only for it to fail in a surprising yet believable way, as Unodus says. They don't even need to be foiled by the enemy, it could be something from left-field, like the weather - just sheer bad luck. In terms of weaknesses, don't forget to also give your characters strengths that they can use to overcome obstacles further on in the story.

P.S. I asked a really dumb question - have you read WoT, when you've got The Prince of Ravens as your avatar!!!! Duh!

I found the magic interesting, with great potential. It has a gloriously overblown scale and icky grandeur to it, which is enjoyable. I felt it as more of a human mutation rather than an ethereal power source, because of the wolf-heads, snakes and devouring going on. I like that. I think there are too many systems based on ‘energy’, to the point it becomes boring unless done really well, or taken in a different direction. There are or course two schools of thought in relation to magic 'systems'. Sandersonian (heavily prescribed by rules) or Tolkienian (creatures being innately magical with no explanation, deus ex machina basically), and then all the points in between. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with the latter, but in either case, I think it’s very important to show the cost of casting magic. This said, you don’t have much time to do that in the heat of battle, but hopefully afterward this will be a factor in some way.

Welcome to Reading Excuses. It’s always good to have fresh submitters to read. Don’t be nervous, we’re all very soft and fluffy really. Just as a note, I always read the submission before I read the post, so if I haven’t answered anything, I’ll come back to it after posting my comments, then reading the thread. Also, I tend to go on a bit, sorry. Detailed comments below the line, however in summary, there were some nice touches and lines in your story, and I found the style easy to read, solid without being spectacular. [Going back to your post, I see it is a first chapter. I would suggest flagging it as such, since my comments are based on it being a short piece – which I gradually realise on the way through that it is not!] One thing I found confusing was the blocking of the battlefield. I didn’t really know what was going on and Andri seems to be able to walk around without being attacked, which I thought was odd. There is a long conversation between Andri and Dirk, but what is the enemy doing? You mention them reforming once at the beginning, but I think that could be flagged more throughout. “Elias Vertner” – I was troubled by the character Elias having a wolf association. Have you read Wheel of Time? The end leaves me a bit confused. I was presuming throughout that this was a short story, rather than the start of a novel. [Corrected now! Ed.] Overall, I enjoyed the piece. I think it’s a bit wordy and repetitive in places, going over the same thought more than once, but with a good, harsh editing pass, I think you can wield the knife and have a tight and visceral battle scene. Main points of confusing, the blocking of the battlefield and the references to Dirk – is it a name or a title? Good work! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ “He had lost sight of the boy some time ago” “Andri had never wanted a Dirk” – Is Dirk the boy? I think it’s unclear referring to him in this way when we haven’t met him. It’s really getting at ‘a boy like Dirk’, I suppose. “brought it down with crushing swiftness” – I found this strange. A hammer is a crushing weapon so, for the swiftness to be crushing as well seemed like repetition. I like the section where he removes the arm, and the reference to his being rebuilt many times, but again, it feels like the description is covering some of the same ground as just been discussed. “What is the point of picking a defensible position if the goal is to die?” – tense confusion here – you go from past to present. “It was an amusing conversation for a man so hard to kill to have with himself” – I would be wary about telling the reader what is amusing, that’s for the reader to decide, but I take it you mean that ‘Andri found it amusing...’ “Andri still carried himself with the steady purpose of death itself” – nice line. “engaged with the inferior forces of the SlaveBarons” – So the Slave Barons are on Andri’s side?. Where are they on the field, how is the fight going? What are the fighting for? Who is he speaking to at the bottom of Page 3? “Unless there’s a reason you’re so far ahead of our lines” – This is the first significant piece of blocking that we’ve had (i.e. describing the location of the characters). I think you could do with this much earlier, providing a clear description of how far away the enemy is and his side. Now we have met Dirk, I don’t understand the line from Andri “I never wanted to be Dirk.” To me, that makes it sound like Dirk is a rank, and yet you use the term/title like a name. I find it confusing. “a woman being r***d while simultaneously decapitated” – I take it you are not planning to submit this for publication. “There was no type of man in this world that a Salecian did not have the take pleasure of in killing” – grammar “As a BrightLord, Dirk fueled his powers with his own amusement and twice as much with the joy of others if he caused it” – I never considered comedian as a warrior caste before – interesting. “He launched a spear, striking a mounted officer, which plunged and plunging through his armor” – grammar. “The bellowing of sergeants was overpowered by the screams of the wounded” – nice line. “the horse evaporating before them” – wow, did not expect that, nice idea. When Adrinal crashes into the enemy’s front line, it sound like only a handful or men are attacking him, whereas there must be dozens. You describe one man, then the second and a couple of speak thrusts, but I felt there should have been handfuls of men described. “his robe giving the impression of a dark presence standing behind him, embracing a prized pupil” – nice line. “Elias’s humongous hands” – to me, this is a comical word, it made me laugh, which I didn’t think was the tone you were going for at this point. “Elias Vertner was one of the wealthiest and most powerful slave barons alive. Jahar Forinya was the only BlackHeart alive that could come close to matching Elias in power,” – I found it disorienting that you introduced new characters at the end of the story – unless this is the first chapter in a novel – I'm unclear on that point now. “scalpel-like blades of mist cut into his soul” – nice line, slight grammar issue.

Ah ha! I knew it!!

True, but I think 'wheelbarrow' or 'barrow' would give the reader an impression close to the truth than 'cart', which sets me off imagining something else, but maybe it's just me.

Mmm, I feel that I sail rather close to the wind myself sometimes - I can be a bit 'enthusiastic' in my comments, perhaps that it why I am sensitive to it. The group is robust, I would say. I can only think of one occasion when someone voted down a negative critique, and I've been here approaching 3 years now.

Also, King007, I bit my tongue above when you asked about your style of commenting, but I guess I shouldn't have, being honest and open and all! I did feel that some of your comments were over the line when you came on first, BUT now that I know you a bit better, I have a context for that and it's fine by me. Furthermore, Silk, I wonder if you might consider pinning the 'Who Are You?' thread on the RE forum, since few new peeps seem to use it, but would I think if it was more visible?

This was another enjoyable chapter. It felt a bit repetitive in places, the mother going out and coming back, then searching again before coming back before they go out to the town. I felt some wordiness, which I’ve commented on below in the details by way of example, but I enjoyed the general flow of the chapter, seeing the town and meeting other characters. I did have a problem with Giselle’s age, her reactions to a couple of things and certain reactions to her. Other than these things and a number of swipes from my grammar stick (unsure how I became the Sticker-Wielder, someone must have dropped it when I was passing...) this was a good solid chapter for me. I felt that there was progression in terms of the setting and the characters, if not the plot, but I'm happy with that. I'm looking forward to the next submission ----------------------------------------------------- “There were no signs of Leni’s footprints leaving the house” – would there normally be signs of footprints? This seems odd, like Leni would always have mud on her shoes. “It couldn’t all be a coincidence. She had heard the heavy rush of wings in the night when her sister had left, and this feather had fallen from an angel, but angels never interacted with the common folk.” – I'm trying to put together Giselle’s age with the reasoning she is going through. It seems blindingly obvious from the rush of wings alone that an angel is involved. Secondly, and I don’t remember this too clearly, but wasn’t there an instance of Giselle withholding information from her mother in the last chapter? I feel the shadow of repetition here. I'm struggling with the notion of Giselle withholding this and causing her mother all the worry and wasted time of going hither and yon around the village in vain. ““Angels don’t come down here.” Her mother’s tone was sharp.” – I think I would be happier about Giselle not telling her mother about the feather if she had tried at the time and her mother had made this sharp response. I could see how that would sting Giselle into silence at saying any more. I had come to think that they were in town already, because you had described exactly what would happen with the good reception and the sweet from the bowl, so was disoriented when they then headed into town. I felt as if they should be coming back at that point. “its single wheel dipping in and out of ruts” – I know what you mean, but it’s got two wheels, right, one at either end of the axle? “Something for the little one?” I'm questioning Giselle’s age here. I think last time I thought she was about 11 or 12 by my impression, but ‘little one’ suggests 7 to 9 for me. “Please let me know if there is anything else that I can do for your family.” – I'm feeling this chapter rather wordy in places. Take this sentence. My new rule of thumb for dialogue is that, unless speechifying or being a pompous arse, people tend to use as few words as possible. Ergo, I'm thinking of this sentence as “Please tell me if I can do anything to help.” 37.5% shorter and 53.9% smoother, I think. “Giselle’s mother took the old man’s offered hands in her own. “Thank you for your offer.” – repetition of ‘offer’. “but you do well by us already” – Isn’t it ‘We do well by you already’? “Giselle wanted to groan but restrained herself. There was something about adults constantly showing concern for one another that rang false. She understood the need to say things out of politeness, but sometimes she wished such exchanges could be kept to a more reasonable length.” – This is hilarious, but seems very harsh on Giselle’s part in the face of genuine concern from the chandler. It seems like a mean part of her young character. “though Giselle could not shake the feeling that the angels had already shined shone too much light upon their family” “They gathered their hand cart” – To me, gathering is something you do to fruit or flowers, i.e. multiple things – collected the cart? “Giselle suspected that the majority who chose to pay once a month did so in order to smooth out the numbers in their favour.” – Here is another instance (as in the last chapter) where Giselle displays much more mature reasoning than her age would suggest to me, whether she is a ‘little one’ at 7/8 or a girl at 11/12. “They passed several inns and alehouses and restaurants on their way to the tax office, and Giselle’s stomach growled at the smells of roasting meats and vegetables and baked bread.” – Argh, now you're doing it! Not as much as Eisenheim admittedly, but twice in the one sentence. I can handle this construction in small doses, but this seems a bit much. “and hen then we can” “Thank you for your quick payment, is there anything else I can do for you today?” – Is this a run-on sentence? I'm still learning on this front. “Mrs. Harrion” – Their surname makes me pause – it’s so close to ‘harridan’. “Giselle’s mother marched her into an alley beside the tax office, one with no windows” – I guess you mean no windows overlooking, but the wording sounds like they're still inside. “They bear a great burden in protecting our borders” – Do they? We've seen no sign of this. “for some hot pies” – How big are these pies? To me, a pie is a meal in itself, the notion of eating multiple of them is strange. “Zanija set to work preparing supper” –This is the mother, right? I reckoned we were in Giselle’s pov, so I don’t see why this name would appear. “They had been so busy throughout the day that her mother had probably not had the time to express any of the emotions she’d been holding in” – awkward. “Her mother stroked Giselle’s head, then her arms hugged Giselle close as she kissed her daughter’s head.” – Repetition of ‘head’ was awkward, to me. Suggest using ‘hair’ for one. “they both needed the physical contact” – Again, I feel that I'm in Giselle’s pov and this is a more adult thought. I'm thinking in terms of ‘being close’.

We could have a procrastination-off, but I wouldn't be ready for the start...

I suspect being Neil Gaiman pays better ;o)