Robinski

I hope it's for something nice - have a good time! We will struggle on and do our best to agree on how to count to five - I think that's something we will be able to agree on... maybe

Thank you, Hellas. Hem, not sure what to say, that's some high praise in my book. I really enjoyed Looper. Rian Johnson does some fine work, but the hero for me is Shane Carruth. Have you seen Primer? I just love that film. The paired down aesthetic and concentrating on ideas (enforced by budget, of course) is just fantastic. Carruth was an advisor to Johnson on Looper, and his influence in relation to the time travel aspects shines through, imho. How about Upstream Color? That is Carruth's follow-up to Primer, also a fascinating film - unconnected, but with very strong focus on ideas, with none of the Hollywood flash-bang tomfoolery to distract the viewer. Not seen his new one yet. Anyway, sorry, got off track there in my enthusiasm for Mr. Carruth. I'm glad you enjoyed the characters, and the setting, which still needs a lot of work. I've done very little world-building to date, so that is still to come. I hope it retains your interest. I'm certainly planning to keep submitting suitable vignettes as I go.

Nice sketch. Personally, I think using tech to give unlimited time feels like a bit of a cheat and steals some of the tension. There could be a nice ticking clocking here if air running out was a thing, and fear of drowning (or asphyxiating in this situation unless they take the breather off) is a primal fear for most people.

That is certainly the way I'm tending. It'll stretch me if nothing else. But him being bi will not mean twice as many pick-ups per story ;op

How long does it take to get to the surface? Could one person go alone and take the second dive suit with them, switching suits or O2 supply halfway up, therefore having air for two hours? Doesn't get over how they find the hole, but once over that issue, they could bring a ship back down for the other person.

Thank you for these excellent comments, Kaisa, you had me at... Anyway... Well yes, I do believe you can. My concept for Quirk seems to continue to morph from Han Solo, Peter Quill (oops) wisecracking rogue to more like a John Wick, Vincent Vega, Captain Jack Harkness (one for the laddies), Jean-Luc Piccard - cool, calm, collected with a razor wit (okay, not Wick and Vega) and equally sharp dress sense. Once you throw in a smattering of Bond, I think there is plenty of potential for multiple encounters through these stories. I know I've been flirting with Quirk's sexuality in these outlines (The name's Bond, gay Bond.) I don't know how closely I'm going to examine that, but I'd like to keep it as a feature of his character. I'm tentative with it, because it's something I have very little experience of. I've one gay friend, and one who I think might be, he just doesn't know it... I like to think that I'll be able to maintain this high standard of quippery through the story(ies). I want the world to laugh. Thank you again, Kaisa - great comments, much appreciated.

Thank you, Mandamon, really helpful comments, as ever. Plot-wise, there is virtually nothing because the exercises are all about character at this stage. This said, I have a plot thread running behind these events, but I'm dropping no clues at all. Season 10 goes onto plot next, so be prepared for some more details to chew on, I hope. The exercise I am doing now is to take a piece of media I like and reverse engineer a lot from it. I've chosen Strange Days, Kathryn Bigelow's 1995 SF film starting Ralph Fiennes, Angela Bassett and Juliette Lewis, which has always been one of my favourites. I doubt I'll post my outline up though, as it will have too many spoilers for a story I will very probably write. This is heartening, as I still perceive him as the main character but, like all the best 'TV' (whatever that means anymore) shows, I'd like to think that if I can get these characters running as regulars, there will be Moth POV stories from time to time, or at least scenes in longer stories, perhaps. Rofl - nah, that's definitely low hanging 'fruit'. I'll need to raise the (chocolate) bar here. Maybe the ice cream changes colour, or has a Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans thing going on (except that's been done really well already). I'll think of something... Thanks again. Man, greatly appreciated.

Thank you, Krystalynn - I'm really pleased that these characters interested you. I really enjoy writing fantasy, and have also told myself it's what I want to do more than anything else, but there's a wee part of my brain nagging away at the rest of the grey blubber that tells me I'm better (relative term) at SF. Why should that be when these are character portraits and not plot and setting? Dunno - something to do with the trappings of modern life, perhaps, and the ability to use modern idioms and slang, etc. No other writing groups were involved, certainly. It's hot off the press, I only scanned through it briefly a second time before submitting. I suppose I had the advantage of writing the same scene from Moth's POV earlier, but I'm greatly encouraged by your reaction (and the others). I had thought of this as a series of short stories, but maybe I'm increasingly thinking that it needs a novella to establish the main characters. Is it a novel? I'm not sure it is. Thank you again, /k, much appreciated.

Thanks so much for the comments, guys. If my eyelids didn't feel like sandpaper, I would respond to them now, but I will be more likely to do them justice in the morning. I feel though that I cannot leave Kaisa hanging on news of Newton's Sixth Law of Skirt Length. I was trying to imply that the length of her skirt was perfect nd clearly therefore the result of much research, possilby by rocket scientists. I maybe didn't nail that line however. Quirk is still shifting a bit. Gah, I'm going to stop making sense in about 4 seconds. More to followzzzzzzzzzz

In Quirk's case - wearing a $47,000 suit (today's money) in the fashion capital of Italy probably helped. This is apropo (that's a funny word) of nothing, but when I was reading Ghando's prologue, I was put in mind of The Searchers, a John Wayne western for those who don't know, arguably his best, although Red River is also up there. Anyway, I mention this casually, with no intention of holding up the westerns of the 50's as paragons of virtue in relation to treatment of female characters. The characters were all tough frontier folk, men and women alike, but there certainly were no women riding with the Texas Rangers in the story. Nonetheless, the story was probably historically accurate in some respects in terms of the roles of women. I dont know. My point in raising it was that when the indians (I know, I know - I'm using the parlance of the time) raided the ranch, they kidnapped two (I think) of the women. The story becomes about Ethan Edwards' (Wayne) obsessive pursuit of his niece, but the viewer is not quite sure whether he intends to rescue her or put an end to her 'suffering' after being in the hands of Comanches for a year. Some would say that the women's misfortune is the motivator for the male protagonist's actions, but it's open to question in the end whether the main female chr, Edwards' niece, is actually suffering and the nobility of his actions is questionnable. So, where did that point go? Ah yes, while The Searchers is not a glowing example of female chrs on an equal footing, it absolutely shows that killing of the female chrs is the lowest of low hanging fruit, and that writers should be trying much, much harder to create conflict and interest. I also realised as I wrote this out than, in The Searchers, the comanches raided one farm to draw the rangers away so they could mount a bigger more devatating attack elsewhere.

Cool, that's good. Thinking back on this, I can see that Oz does respond somewhat differently ot different NPCs. Yeah, I guess maybe Oz was a bit more energised and active in this chapter. I had not immediately associated that with Dion. I'll be watching out for his positive influence now!

I also agree with critique of that aspect, if not as vehemently, which doesn't mean I condone it. I would like to have an open discussion about this and other things on the forum, however I have been warned of certain topics before. So it does not seem to be an entirely level playing field.

Really, why? I'm really interested to know what you latched onto about him. For me, he has a couple of vaguely lighthearted retorts, but otherwise does next to nothing. As noted above, I'm not sure why he's in this chapter other than to be introduced for later, but I would really like more character from him if he's going to be sticking around. To me, he's just going to get in the way of much more entertaining exchanges between Oz and Hayden or maybe Oz and Pascal.

MRK’s ABCD, yaddah, yaddah, (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing), plus (G) Grammar/typo. I enjoyed this version more than the last but, for me, it was not without flaws. I won’t replicate detailed comments below, but the biggest let down for me was Dion. I think he feels like stock NPC, and has no character. I am just at the point in RE Season 10 about characters the one of the exercises I’ve just completed was about taking a secondary character and making them the m/c. RE have mentioned before the danger of making a secondary character (POV) too interesting, but I think you could have written this same scene having Oz bounce off Brick and nothing would be lost. Accessing the hospital is much better, but the lack of people is awful convenient. I liked before that Oz needed to circumvent a person, but just wasn’t convinced by the way you did it. And please don’t have him dress up as an orderly that is SOOOOOO overdone. I think that mural is a darling you need to kill, it still doesn’t make sense. The big win for me is the scene at the end, I like Oz’s discombobulation under Calgary’s attack – I think you could make that part more intense, play it up more. And I love Hayden’s intervention – again I think you could intensify it. The image of her at the end, windswept clutching these unconventional weapons is fantastic – get a good a good artist and put it on the cover!! Except she’s not the m/c – oops... Nice job – it’s definitely better. <R> --------------------------------------------- (G) – “Brick,” I say lowly” – I know what you mean, but it sounds weird. What’s wrong with ‘quietly’? (C) – “which gives access to a bay directly between Turner and Krieger.” – do you mean between their offices? (C) – “my heart pounds and my legs are stiff” – why? (G) – “I wait for the east bound train” – one word, eastbound (D) – “Cleaning bots sweep the floor in neat lines while the people wear suits or Penton uniforms” – wouldn’t the bots have to weave around the people walking through, or do they stop? I feel like it’s a recipe for passengers to trip over these things. How many bots are there? Seems like walking might be awkward. (C) – “For as long I can grasp it, this is my new life” – not sure what is meant by this phrasing. Do you mean as long as he can take / bear it? ‘Grasp’ sounds more commonly used to mean ‘believe’. I don’t think it’s clear. (C) – “The painting starts with” – do you mean the mural? You’ve just mentioned the previous painting, so this threw me off a bit. (G) – “Only the for the second clam” (D) – “In the center of the violent cycle, the gold-leafed Turner logo is garishly civilized” – I’ll say again, for this image to be displayed anywhere in a hospital is highly questionable. For me, this has a strong feeling of a darling that you need to kill. I don’t see how it serves any purpose. (G) – “I find the source of the sounds coming from a utility closet” – the source doesn’t ‘come from’ the closet, the source is in the closet, the sounds come from the closet. (C) – “Dion looks back and forth” – Oz doesn’t know his name yet. (D) – “MY CLEANING BOT DID NOTHING TO YOU” – since when does Brick have a personality? I'm not sure we’ve seen this previously. Previous response (that I can remember) all seem very mechanical and logical. (D) – “Robots have feelings too” – he’s being funny though, right? I'm now starting to doubt me assumptions about Brick. (G) – “The sound is thankfully less of a bang and more of a pop, but when I open the closet door, the smoke is minimal.” – but’s not right here. I think minimal smoke is consistent with the pop, not at odds with it, but using ‘but’ suggests that the second does not follow from the first. I think ‘and’ the smoke is minimal is more appropriate. (C) – “Dry ice ready?” – I don’t understand. Ah, okay, but feels disjointed. Where did they get the dry ice from? Hey, maybe they could have used the dry ice to make the metal of the grate brittle and then just snapped it out instead of causing an explosion. And again, where on earth did the dry ice come from? (D) – “We’ve still yet to run into any security personnel.” – or any persons at all, the absence of people gets increasingly unbelievable the longer it goes on. (C) – Why do they need masks to go in and see Calgary? I forget now what’s happened to him. Is he infected? If so, I‘ve also forgotten whether the thing is infectious. I thought it was to do with the air. (C) – “Dion says something else, but the stairs lead down, and I take them two at a time,” – this is unclear to me. Why can’t Oz hear what Dion says, since it’s said before Oz goes down the stairs? I’d be much happier to hear Dion say, ‘I'm going the other way,’ or something like that. (D) – “a glass hallway that rings a sunlit courtyard” – okay, so this is why they needed masks, but you didn’t reveal before that they were going to have to go outside. How did they now that? And I think you need to tell the reader so that the mask comment makes sense. (G) – “a smiling conquering my face” – ‘a smile’, and conquering, really? That suggests the smile is fighting with something else. It seems a rather overblown phrase. (G) – “You raised him.” (G) – “In one hand she wields a taser” – to me, wields is the act of using the thing, as in she has just wielded the taser, but now is only holding it. (G) – I really like the image of Hayden standing in a hospital gown holding these unusual weapons as the wind swirls around, but I don’t think you’ve quite sold it as well as you could. I think it could have a bigger visual impact. I also really like the way you cut the ‘glowing’ image off with her comment about his lack of a mask, that’s a nice zinger to end the chapter. I wonder if it would have more punch if you mention, very briefly, that she is masked, like ‘A masked Hayden throws herself between me and Calgary’ – not drawing too much attention, but just to remind the reader that people outside should be masked. Sorry, this smacks a bit of editorial, but I would really enthused by the scene and how it could be punched up.

Hey there. After the three character ‘portraits’ from last time, I am following on through the writing exercises of Writing Excuses Season 10. The next one arises from a cast about secondary characters and making these rounded and interesting individuals, it goes like this: (S10-E7) Pick one of the dead-drop characters from the exercise two weeks ago, and turn them into a secondary character. Now take one of the characters with whom they interacted, and write the same scene again, but from this new character’s POV. Here is my attempt. The comments I'm looking really just relate back to the prompt and the cast. Is Grimes interesting, how does Moth come across as a secondary character, which is what she might become if I write out this story – which I hope to. Then, the next prompt after that requires me to imagine the scene before and after the main character scenes of the dead drop. (S10-E8) Sketch out the events before and after your dead-drop scene from last week and three weeks ago. For Q, I have a bit written more than the outline that they asked for. I just sort of happened that way, because I'm getting into the characters and itching to write a story for them. So, following the Grimes perspective below, there are Q then M’s before and after the drop scenes. Are there interesting? Again, character comments, please. Thanks for reading!! <R> p.s. An apology – last time, I should have had a big on ‘L’ for language tag on my submission – just completely forgot. Sorry!! p.p.s Sorry this is late.

Summation at the end – straight into the comments. “She was the picture of lack of surprise” – This phrasing is awkward. I sit here puzzling about a word that means ‘lack of surprise’ – knowingness, maybe? “Consider this a courtesy; you do not want your blood to be in the hands of another.” – Awesome line, just packed with portent. Gives rise to several reader questions, for me anyway. “His mask was black filigree metal, and they caught his deep green eyes spectacularly” – Feels like there is something missing, you use ‘they’ as there was something else on the mask, like stones? “She tried to keep it light and smooth but found herself doing it quite heavily” – Very inelegant phrase, it’s not even the word count, ‘using more force than intended’ or ‘pressing harder than she meant to’ or something like that would be preferable to ‘doing it’. I think it’s the lack of sophistication that is out of place with your narrative style. “and they both stopped where they stood on the floor” – redundant “I believe my brother is responsible for your father's safety” – this is a nice connection, unexpected and more subtle than some. It’s good that they have shared stakes, strengthening the connection between them – I like how you did that. “Put like that-- I'm still not sure I agree” – Lasila’s comments about wanting fine things seem rather shallow. I can see the attempt at balance, but considering that she is concerned with feeding herself and keeping the house, I would wonder if the balance is quite right. Anyway, going on from that, Irahi’s description of the war is very welcome. This is the first time (that I can recall) that we have heard anything of the realities of the war. I find it very effective. I wonder if Lasila should be more affected by if, more horrified? Not sure. “There's something else that made my father sure this was genuine, but he never told me what.” – Nice touch of mystery and intrigue. This will stick with me (in a good way) as another question to be answered, as it sounds portentous. “He looked down into it rather than drinking” “looking closely at her face” “No… I don’t know that I’d be bothered. If you were offering, that is-- not that it would be my place to suggest you were.” Then “Let's call it an offer, then. Come on, there must be somewhere private that hasn't been claimed yet.” – I like the whole arc of the chapter and I think the discourse (verbal and physical) between Lasila and Irahi was well done. It was right at the end here that I felt their banter got very awkward. I think this last exchange could have much more impact, be more elegant, smooth and enticing. ----------------------------------------------------- I enjoyed this chapter, the scene with Maranthe and the one with Irahi. Both were convincing and both conveyed some good new information. I note others have mentioned being ‘disconnected’ from the magic. I can see where those comments come from, because we have not really seen magic in action, I feel. Anyway, I enjoyed the additional information, the intrigue and felt that the tone was much better in terms of this being an orgy. I would still like more sensory clues as Lasila moves through these three(?) chapters to attach a more risqué tone to the event. All in all, generally I'm happy and looking forward to reading more. <R>

I would like to submit too, please.

Lol

Well, the one that launched him was 'Legend', starring Druss, who was probably his biggest character, and who recurred in various books. I also like the Waylander books, because the Waylander is a thief/brigand type character, which I am more partial too. I also have a soft spot for the Rigante books, as they have a strong celtic tone. Interestingly, this feeds into the overarching setting question that someone raised in the Lounge, as the majority of Gemmell's books are set in the same world, but focus on different nations. In essence, go read any of his books, they are just bl**dy marvelous

Yeah, I'll back Kaisa up on this. I'll admit to my shame that it's something I don't remember if I mentioned first time around. You do refer briefly in passing to his deceased partner/paramour earlier, I think, but that's not quite the same thing. After that, I think it's a long time before another female character appears... The appearance and number of female characters is one thing, but I was conscious (and almost commented, honest!!) that Catherine doesn't get much at all to do when she does appear. She runs after Hellas when the first attack takes place, and is actually shown to rather incompetent, imho, in terms of not knowing there is an attack taking place. Then here, she gets to hug Hellas and tell him to take care of himself. I'm not over the top in terms of positive discrimination, but it's a bit of a stereotype. Even if she hugged him and said 'you're a melon-farming idiot, sort yourself out' it would be better, or slapped him on the back, or got to be proactive in some way.

Diving straight in... “The feeling of hurtling to the ground, the wind whipping savagely at my helmet.” – Sorry, any comments in any story where a male character talks about his helmet just slay me – yes, this is my level. “the rest of Heaven may have forgotten what Uriel had done, but he never would” – I find it unlikely that everyone apart from Hellas has forgotten someone who made an ultimate sacrifice. If nothing else, if there is a muckle great statue on a street corner, it’s kind of hard to ignore. “I’m glad you guys didn’t change the hay; I had it just the way I liked it” – LOL “The thousands of hellspawn that surrounded us on all sides” – If they’re surrounded, it must be on all sides or they're not surrounded, on other words, last bit is redundant. I prefer your telling of the attack on the students as Hellas’ fever dream instead of playing it out. I think it’s a much better way of emphasising the haunted nature of his thoughts/dreams. “I was worried that they were illiterate this whole time” – This illiteracy shtick didn’t work for me. “Will the criminal please state his name?” – To me, this is rather heavy-handed. A generically one-sided court appearance, I think the rotten or cripplingly officious state of the judiciary could come across in a more malevolent way, if that’s what you're going for. “The judge slammed his gavel down on the ground” – Surely it’s on a table? “maybe I would have payed paid more attention” I like the interlude from heaven and his interaction with Scrios, the tone of which is quite different, of course. Having read about 10 chapters before (I think, certainly into Part 2), I don’t know how qualified I am to talk about engagement in the story. I'm not what you would call gripped, and I'm reading I think out of interest for the changes. Hellas comes across reasonably well as a tortured character, although another flash or two, of a more graphic horror of battle would help. The difficulty I have, I think, is that I'm not feeling the stakes. I don’t see the wrongs that Hellas feels disturbed by and might ultimately right. Heaven seems a mildly unfair place where people get on with their afterlives. Hope this is helpful. <R>

Some details below, but overall I felt it was a decent chapter, but I wouldn’t go to A+ though. One great improvement though was him sliding into the vehicle with not mention of a ‘chute’ in sight – hurrah! I'm trying to make the Rex scarier ... the description of the whale rat... is supposed to tie into that theme on a creepy world-building level – I thought whale rate and deer mouse were silly. Rex scarier? I couldn’t tell any difference. Eleanor's interest in Oz is more overt here – I thought it was so brief that it didn’t really impact, and her saying sorry was just confusing. I want Oz to be less competent in these early chapters so that he can be more competent later – He doesn’t really do anything in this chapter, so I get no real sense of his competence or otherwise. Honestly, I preferred the previous one. I can’t make any sense why the general of the world is here, or going on an away mission at all. Previously, it was just Penton, but now you have two really important people in the one APC? It makes no sense tactically. In fact, it’s every bit as crazy as Kirk and Spock going on landing parties together. (No, they are not called away missions in the Original Series). Sorry, I don’t feel that I’ve helped that much. <R> --------------------------------------------- “berserker” – Meh, this term seems a bit casual in the context of this story. You could have made up a cool new name, but we get an old fantasy standard that’s been knocking around for decades. The rats mutated?! Really, that’s all apocryphal, isn’t it? That stuff doesn’t wouldn’t actually happen – I mean with such a blatant and dramatic mutation? And what, where did the skink come from? This thing with the snake and the rate and the mouse and the skink is weird, and I think there was a whale and a deer too. “light and fleet” – kind of mean the same thing, don’t they? Seems repetitive. “the visor on her helmet is down” – I would think this means the visor is in place, and would retract upward to sit on the top of her helmet. If the visor retracts down the way, her breath might mist it up. “Her brows shoot up, but she mostly looks amused” – Here’s one of these imprecise words I'm trying to stop using. They create doubt and a lack of confidence in the image – I would drop it or, if you're keeping it, put it after ‘but’. “It’s a skateboard that uses the magnite rail” “at the same time that the other woman says”, also “I did, and it’s fine—” “never even seen an single upgrade” – too many words here, I think. Could drop ‘even’ instead. “at least two are really hot” – to me, Oz’s voice is very sober and serious for a boy his age – this comment seems out of character.

Straight into the comments. Para. 1 – Yeah, straight away I'm happier with the new opening. There is action taking place and we are getting instant background on what is going on in the world. End Para. Page 1 – This makes him sound cold and calculating, not really caring about his men, but only the boost in morale. This is repeated in Para. 1, Page 2, where he seems to only show concern for his men so that they will fight for him. I know what you’re trying to get at, but I don’t think you're hitting the mark in these passages. Bottom of Page 2, you do again what you did somewhere on Page 1. You use ‘Silvan’ three times close together. It’s not necessary and quite distracting. The battle is over, and they are now only a few miles from the city. Even if the general was the last man to leave the battlefield, he could have moved to the front by now. “medical center” is too modern a phrase. “Caspin is a lucky village for you” – this phrasing isn’t right. “Like the preceding villages...” Why does his daughter pretend to grow plants, why can’t she actually grow plants? To me, it would actually be harder to pretend than just stick a seed in the ground. Overall, I'm struggling to decide if I like this version more than the first. I can see improvements, but it’s still not grabbing me. My problem, I think, lies in the fact that it’s still quite predictable. Everyone behaves exactly as you would expect them to, and their emotions are exactly as one would expect. I'm reminded of a phrase that Howard Taylor used in Season 9 of Writing Excuses when the team were talking about how they come up with ideas. He said something like “Avoid the low hanging fruit.” What he meant was, don’t use the first idea that comes into your head, because that’s the first one that everyone thinks of, discard it, and discard the next think, until you get to the ideas that most people won’t reach. An example? Maybe the enemy killed all the children in the village apart from his daughter. Maybe Silvan refuses to obey the order to go north and deserts to run after the latest barmaid. Maybe the Bareblood band that attacked his village all commit suicide in the village square, setting up a puzzling mystery. These are random notions, but I'm trying to illustrate by comparison why I felt there was nothing surprising in this prologue as it is. I hope that these comments are helpful. The most important thing is to keep going. We’re all learning all the time, and sharing our work is pretty much the only way to do that. <R>

Hey Coop, it's a pleasure to have you on board. Welcome to the group. We should have a slow reading race sometime, I think I could give you a run for your money... wait, what? Ahem. 'Deliberate' is a good word. The term I use for myself is 'plodder'. If there is one man however who is guaranteed to get me turning the pages it's David Gemmell - a true master of fantasy, imho, and sadly missed. Would love to read some of your stuff sometime, but not rush

Hey RD, thank you for commenting, much appreciated. Yeah, I know what you mean, but it's simply shorthand. Consider the use of 'engine' when talking about a train. The link is 'inspired' (ahem) lifted from the Rush song, Red Barchetta, which uses a couple of terms in reference to a train-like vehicle, as follows: And now on Sundays I elude the eyes; And hop the turbine freight; To far outside the wire where my; White-haired uncle waits Jump to the ground as the turbo slows; To cross the borderline; Run like the wind as excitement shivers; Up and down my spine Yeah - I was certainly going for jarring. I suppose it maybe more of a problem where she's on her own, as my plan is to have some of combination of these characters acting together and playing off one another. QED!! Thanks again for the comments, very helpful.