Robinski

Thanks for the comments Coop, much appreciated. Your reaction is fascinating, and I'm glad that your interest has been snagged to some degree. That's great. Yeah, plot is basically non-existent in these pieces, which was inevtiable, I guess, but must drag on the interest in what's happening because of that. I'm working on plot now, so hopefully interest will increase. Presently I'm writing beginnings, three of them based on different promoses to the reader. So I expect that will be my next submission in a couple of weeks - slots permitting! Thanks again. Baron Harkonnen indeed. Wow! Yes, I will need to flesh out the portraits of Quirk and Moth.

I'm just not on it today really. I got to Page 4, I think, comments below, but I ran out of steam at a particular point. I found the second paragraph a bit oblique. I'm not sure I know what certain of these comments are in reference to. Good scene with Savae. Lots of passion in the ritual and a good commentary in her thoughts and actions to create interest in her agenda. Lovely imagery too. “Well, if Alia or the Sleeper both would offer no refuge to the soul if one sought the dread powers of the shudkathra, it would make sense if a priestess would look for a god who would.” There’s all kinds of stuff going on in the narrative that I'm purposely trying (and failing) to ignore. I'm just not capable of ‘walking’ past and keeping my hands in my pockets. “This was about temporal power in some way, if not immediate then at least centred upon this lifetime and not whatever lay beyond.” – I don’t know what this means. It doesn’t seem to fit with the context of events to date, that I can figure. “Did she intend to do more than speculate?” – Okay, a camel somewhere just collapsed in a heap. Lasila is now speculating about whether or not to speculate. This is the epitome of passivity. I can do passivity up to a point, but we just left Passivity in the rear view mirror on the Route 1 to Apathy. I'm trying I really am, but my patience with Lasila’s journey (as the protagonist in a novel) just passed its Expiration date. Having read through the comments of others before posting this, I have similar confusion about names, leading to further confusion about who wants what and why. The more I disconnect from the story, the harder it is to maintain progress, of course. It’s been a long day – so I'm going to call it that. I hope to resume in due course. <R>

Hey, you're welcome. Hopefully there is some substance in there as well, and not just nitpicking!

Hey Coop. My detailed comments are now coded according to MRK’s espoused ABCD method. (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing). Now also including their nerdy classmate who nobody spoke to in high school, (G) for Grammar/typo, an essential adjunct to the ABCDs! Overall, I enjoyed this, although there were some notes that I dislike, primarily the somewhat bratty attitude of Sira to life, her materialism, and the seemingly contradictory careless way she treats her necklace. Much to complement though, some nice images and an effective fairy tale-like quality. All in all, I liked this and I'm looking forward to reading more. <R> --------------------------------------------- Chapter 1 (C) – “That wonderfully-cursed brain of hers caused more false problems in her life than real problems” – awkward phrasing, I thought. (B) – “Sira strode dramatically into the forest with arms swinging in wild arcs” – This feels like telling, especially when you go on to show the overdramatic nature of her movement in the same sentence. (A) – “This is the most untidy, second-rate forest I’ve ever seen” – lol, I'm on board with her pretentious over-acting. “bring my travel guillotine, I’m on the move” – more lol. (B) – “Suddenly noticing how long she’d walked” – How does she notice, and do you mean long in distance or time? (G) – “She wondered how it had formed this way.” – Why does no one use the word ‘had’ anymore? It’s so good at fixing a thought in time. Omitting it brings the phrase into the present, it’s more distracting. (G) – “This path definitely did not grow on its own, she thought” – I think the importance of precision should never be underestimated. Chapter 2 (G) – “And then several more minutes passed uneventfully” – This sounds like the minutes pass in an instant. (A) – “Nothing terrifying happened. No wild-eyed, overalls-wearing, tangled-bearded kidnappers jumped out of the bushes. No black-winged demons dragged her into the sky.” – Awesome images, nicely delivered by her imagination. (G) – “Sira had plenty of opportunities to be was often left alone with her fears” – Very complicated phrasing. (D) – “She had learned ways to force herself, for example, into going down the basement steps” – I wonder if encouraging youngsters to learn how to force themselves to do things is the way to go, rather than them learning to be brave, for example. (D) – “her neighbor—a silversmith—helped her craft identical necklaces” – Very convenient, the hand of the writer at work. (D) – “hurled the necklace over the river” – Hmm, nah. I don’t believe this. (A) – “She had found the end of the road” – This is a satisfying moment, and I think its timing is nicely judged. I’d had enough tramping through the woods, but it still feels like a decent journey. (G) – “The moss looked good enough to lie in” – ‘Good’ here doesn’t really mean anything. Why not ‘soft’ or ‘smooth’ or some other word that conveys something? (G) – “She noticed something ______ about the small pools of clear water” – Back to my comment about precision. I feel there is a word missing here. (D/G) – “It splashed into the water and thumped to a rest several inches below the surface. She jerked backward. The rock seemed to hover in the water, touching nothing.” – I don’t like the description here. I can’t imagine the rock ‘thumping’ as the water would deaden any sound, and if it’s just below the surface, it hasn’t fallen far enough to make a sound anyway. Also, the first sentence describes and impact, but in the next the rock is hovering in the water, or floating as the rest of us say (C) – “she threw in a handful of dirt” – I don’t have any sense of the size of these pools. I have imagined them as a couple of feet across, so the action of throwing sounds wrong. Would she not just drop the dirt into the pool? (A) – “There was a room below her” – Nice zinger at the end of the chapter, but I still have not clear concept of the horizontal size of the pool. Chapter 3 (C) – “It was just clear enough” – What, the water? (C) – “geometrically-shaped object” – I sort of know what you mean, but this is fairly lazy description, I think it deserves better. (C) – “Sira bounced from puddle to puddle” – I can’t picture what she’s doing. (C) – “roughly the shape of a football. Or a flying saucer” – When you say football, anyone outside North America pictures a soccer ball, i.e. a sphere. (G) – “wedged the end into the gap like a lever” – it’s not like a level, it IS a lever (A) – “She tried sitting on the branch. She dangled from the branch over the rock’s edge” – I like the image here, very good. It feels like a scene Winnie the Pooh, somehow. (B) – “rapidly losing light” – using the word light to describe (increasing) darkness doesn’t sit well with me, personally. (A) – “The sharp pain changed her mind. Rubbing her tailbone, she hobbled from the glade” – great imagery here, well done – simple and effective. (C/D) – “There was no time for argument. She lifted off the necklace and tossed it in.” – I'm not sure about the word ‘argument’ here, and this necklace thing is going to bug me. A treasured thing that she throws around like it’s nothing. I see what you’re going, but I don’t like it, personally. Chapter 4 (D) – “She moved in a squat with her back against the wall as though trying to eliminate any chance for attack from behind” – Imprecise language. She is trying to eliminate that chance, surely. (A) – “bathing the staircase and room below in yellow” – I like how this worked. Also, “Glass bubbles in the ceiling were the puddles she’d seen from above” – neat. (C/G) – “Markings of a language she’d never seen were engraved _____” – Huh? Where? (C/D) – “a Martian’s toolbox” – Okay, I kind of glossed over the Atlantis reference, but this really has me puzzling over the setting. I think you mentioned a phone earlier on(?), but I don’t feel there’s enough to root us in a particular place or time. (D/G) – “The girl jumped at the sound of dripping water” – Why suddenly ‘the girl’? I think this is a pov error. (D) – “But what in the world is it for? Writing? Surgery? War?” – I think you mentioned that she is twelve years old. The words ‘surgery’ and ‘war’ are older than that, imho. (D) – “It was her treasure. Her reward for the stresses she’d suffered that evening” – Ha, she treats this with more respect than her necklace. Also, this is a really narcissistic thought, not attractive at all. Any stresses she imposed on herself. I don’t like the message of materialism that this carries to a young audience. I hope she suffers some kind of comeuppance in the course of the story. (A/D) – “The euphoria of discovery made her blind to fear, and the golden fabric in her arms warmed her.” – A nice thought/image, followed by a less nice one.

Well, that is quite the comprehensive recasting of the story. Some stylistic issues remain, for me. The use of 'modern' (contemporary) idiom in dialogue* is something that I have never liked, but that’s your style, so I’ll say no more about it. I'm not convinced this is a prologue at all, it reads like Chapter 1 to me, unless you are going to transport the whole thing into the future or to a different location and starting point for the story proper. Still, all that action in a prologue feels off to me. Alfa noted that characterisation had suffered, and I tend to agree. But I do like the potential that Atena has for agency. I'm sorry about the loss of the Abrahamic theme and setting, I think the story becomes much more generic because of that. I think it loses the resonance it had, for me at least, to think that this was taking place in heaven, and Lucifer was the antagonist. Even though I was never fully convinced by the inaction of the Trinity, the fact that they were painted as remote and ambivalent was, I thought, a strong element of the previous version. Easy for me to say as an Agnostic, but that’s my 2 cents. <R> * By which I mean modern almost 'slang' phrasing or styling of dialogue where there is no obvious basis for language to have developed in exactly the same way as it has in the Western Hemisphere of Earth by the early 21st Century.

Wow, that's a bold move. I'm just about to start reading the submission, but from the start, I think this is the kind of bold move that could really elevate the story. Good moxie for taking the bull by the horns!

Various details bugged me in this submission. I got properly confused at encountering the first meeting of Oz and Aunt Liz, but my real problem was the dismissive attitude of both Oz and Pascal to the loss of Calgary. I can only imagine that becoming a Rex is even worse than death, because the ‘person’ is still standing there – it must be so disturbing, heartrending, and yet they breeze of into a sparring session without a second thought. I did not like that at all. ‘Being sad sucks’ is a horribly trite line, imho. I should add that there is good stuff here, but I think some adjustments are necessary for it to be a convincing chapter. <R> -------------------------------------------- “but I’ve added a whole additional coating” – kinda clumsy. “Hayden says, “who is now a Rex,” `and by her casual tone,” – This construction is awkward. Why not just start a new sentence? “why don’t you walk Hayden home.(?)” – I'm questioning the premise for Dion breaking in, as there is no attempt by anyone here to keep him away from Hayden. Suddenly, it feels like a writerly device to put Dion and Oz together, and I think it’s revealed here as being rather weak. “I’m still piecing together that the guy before is somehow supposed to be related to my new “repair job”” – I don’t get this. What guy, when before and what repair job? “better a prisoner than a chimney sweep” – hmm, I think you just alienate your chimney sweep readership. “but Calgary hated the Rex. But five minutes ago, Calgary” – this kind of repetition really bugs me. “Pascal’s arms wrap around to opposite shoulders” – around what, at that point it could be him or herself. “Being sad sucks. Do you want to spar?” – I found this is line horribly trite and dismissive, heartless even. My sympathy for Pascal just dropped through the floor. Am I right in saying she has lost someone too, her father? In which case she knows what this feels like to some extent. My discomfort holds over into the next scene. I'm still thinking about Calgary. I would rather that Oz was taking his frustration out in the fight – not even on Pascal, but perhaps by being unfocused and aggressive in a way that makes him less effective. I don’t know. I don’t like what just happened. And Oz is smirking in this scene. Ugh. “her waist is impossibly smaller than a year ago” – What does this mean exactly, Size Zero? “It’s okay if he stays here tonight, right?” – This feels like a repetition of the scene with Pascal’s mother. But wait, “Even with her dark brown skin and stick straight hair, Elizabeth Clarington looks more like Pascal than Pascal's mother did.” – I'm confused. WRS is kicking me hard in the a*s. Does replace the earlier scene? I'm properly confused now. “Fara missed you. She wouldn’t shut up about you, actually.” – Who’s Fara, I'm completely lost now. This is frustrating. I had to go back and look at Chapters 0-2 to figure out who Sony was. “Don’t forget. I’ll be able to hear you, you know.” – I think this kills the zing of the last line.

Hey, best of everything with the impending. I hope your offspring gives you an easy time of it

Welcome @Hobbit, great to have another new voice on the forum.

I have to say I think this is in danger of becoming over-complicated. I can only think of one other occasion in the 3 years I've been here where a critique was a bit close to the bone, and even then, while harsh, it remained relevant to the piece and was not personal. It certainly did not incur Mod intervention. I think 'we' handled this in the correct way, discussing it openly and having a grown-up exchange with the Mods in an open-minded way, and that is to the credit of everyone involved or contributing. I think the last thing we need is more regulation (No, I am not a republican).

It's a little person with shifty eyes and a balaclava, I believe. And the name's Quirk, James (T) Quirk... not Quark. I have nothing against Quark, but it sounds like a duck.

Really? But...I like him! Exactly I'm going as fast as I can! You know I'm going to steal this, right?

I prefer to think of it as encouragement. I too like to call a shovel a shovel, but I'm not in your league.

Thanks for reading, @neongrey, much appreciated. It's a first draft - I'm not overly worried about this at this point. She'll be back. Grimes is an exercise and not intended to be a (major) pov, whereas Moth is. She's very much secondary here, as intended by the exercise that spawned this submission. They have judges in Russia? Ahem, I am totally un-surprised at your reaction to Quirk. To some extent, that is a success in that he is not meant to be likeable. In your eyes it seems, I have gone way beyond that! All I can say is that perhaps, in a full story, I can redeem some little part of him, from your perspective. We shall see, but I would never be offended if you chose not to read a submission. Also, Moth is a major part of the story, as is there byplay. Enough to offset your disgust with Quirk? Who knows. Thanks again, NG

Thank you, @rdpulfer, much appreciated. Noted on the conversation. You might have suffer through some of this style of 'breezy' chat, as it's a key facet of Quirk's character. That and @kaisa is insisting upon one such encounter every couple of pages. Excellent on the Moth reaction. I think the most heartening thing in all these reactions is that there is a fairly good balance between Team Quirk and Team Moth. Considering they are intended to be the central pairing, that is great, however the big test comes when I put them together. I've already written a couple of scenes and some dialogue. As to the spoiler, yes, you will get that in the first story, fairly near the beginning

Thank you, @spieles. No need to stress on the timescale. There's no rush Good point - I will definitely pick that up if the Grimes pov makes it into a story. Excellent, he's very much intended to be a character designed to produce good verbal byplay. Glad you saw it this way. Err, wow, thank you both! This is high praise, and super motivating/encouraging. Onward and upwards!!

Whoa - yes, you're safe with 8km. I found these handy tables: Ocean Deepest Point Depth (feet) Depth (meters) Pacific Mariana Trench 36,200 11,033 Atlantic Puerto Rico Trench 28,374 8,648 Indian Java Trench 25,344 7,725 Arctic Eurasia basin 17,881 5,450 Ocean Average Depth (feet) Average Depth (meters) Pacific 13,740 4,188 Atlantic 12,254 3,872 Indian 12,740 3,872 Arctic 3,407 1,038 Average Overall 13,124 4,000

And I'll bet you have a better sense of................................................. .......timing.

There's a first time for everything Agree.

No, smoothe is the verb, smooth is the adjective. My actual paper Concise OED disagrees. However, as usual, although the majority of the internet seems to support 'smooth', Wiktionary has 'smoothe' as an archaic spelling of 'smooth'. Probably, I care too much about the details, but I always find myself asking what an editor would do. I get that - which is why I used the ' ' - if only I'd used the word 'tone', which is what I meant. Absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest that. I think she's active - just not impatient or precipitous.

And I'll bet you have a better sense of.................................................

LM**O If I didn't know better, I'd ask if you were a drummer ...

Haha - my best friend (and best man) and I sat around for about 10 years role playing 1 year of a PC's life in one of my RPG cities. The minutiae, oh god the minutiae - it was wonderful. His character was one of the most passive people I have ever 'met' - the hoops I had to GM through to get her moving were ridiculous - horribly contrived, and yet we had loads of fun. I think we rolled dice about 20 times a year. It was very much a character- and story-based exercise. I have 743 pages of written notes that will one day become a novel, but don't hold your breath. My point being, you'll get no complaints from me on pacing, @neongrey as long as something vaguely interesting is happening and Lasila is involved, even if only reacting.

Sorry, but after NG's remarks about Joss Whedon in her comments on my last submission, I had to guffaw loudly at your invocation of Buffy @kaisa

Some comments below. Overall, there was some interesting stuff in there. The most effective moment, for me, was the god whispering in Lasila’s ear, I thought that was effect. I enjoyed the aftermath of the liaison between Lasila and Irahi. It felt hurried, and I wanted more interaction between them at that point, but being robbed of it by the attendant felt right, consistent with the situation. Much of the rest of the chapter, I felt, dragged. I found the ceremony itself unclear, which was distracting as I tried to visualise what was happening. Nothing that an editing pass or two could not fix, of course. I'm still interested in the story. I wonder what inspiration Lasila will take from the god’s words, and how her employment opportunity through Iluya will develop. <R> --------------------------------------------- “They weren't exactly inviting in a crowd” – I really dislike seeing what I think are modern idioms in ‘period’ fiction. It’s a kind of glib, conversational form that I don’t think sits well with the tone of the story. “I must ask you to finish whatever you are about and join the others in the atrium” – This jarred for me, seeming to go beyond the mark of what I take to be quite strict class etiquette would permit an attendant to say to two guests. “They'd left her slip and corset on to make things easier getting dressed again” – How very... practical. Joking aside, this actually underlines the somewhat detached tone to the liaison. “By the time all was said and done,” – I don’t mind the omission of ‘gory details’, but this for me is too detached. No emotional cues at all. “He shrugged his shirt back on with relative ease” – This seems overstated to me. He’s putting on a shirt, not wrestling a lion. Even if he does have wings, he’s been putting shirts on all his life, presumably, so he must be adept at it by now. “Lasila reached up to smoothe out Irahi's hair” – smooth. This is the second instance and there’s another one coming. I know you don’t like lbl’s, but three’s a crowd :o) “Their robes glittered in the faint light, stabbing at her eyes.” – There’s seems to be confusion over the level of light. I don’t believe that dim light can stab at anyone’s eyes. “a voice did raise rise up in song” – slay me if you like ;op I felt a fairly significant disconnect when the god appeared. I didn’t really understand the mechanics of that. Did the blinding effect of the light mask his arrival? He just seemed to be there, but without a clear statement of Lasila’s realisation that another deity was present. Hard to put my finger on, just something of a disconnect. I thought her face-to-face with the god was effective, the appearance of her father’s face adding an ethereal quality. The parting of Lasila and Irahi feels protracted, a word, a touch, another word, another touch. It left me feeling awkwardness more than anything else.