Jult

Very cool idea! And, from what we know, Rayse has interacted with almost the same number of Shards since the time of the Shattering. He shattered Devotion (1) and Dominion (2) in events that Autonomy (3) was somehow involved in. Then he fought Ambition (4) in a battle that Mercy (5) was somehow involved in. Then he came to Roshar where he meddled with Honor (6) and Cultivation's (7) affairs. If one of the Unmade is a splinter of Odium himself, then that makes 8. Who knows? He could have bumped heads with some 9th Shard. There are plenty of theories about Valor and Reason floating around. Or the ninth Unmade could have been some trace of Adonalsium that was left on Roshar like Wind was. Autonomy is probably the shakiest of the above. She may not even have been present for whatever happened on Sel. Mercy's involvement in the Shattering of Ambition is also pretty hazy. But I think for the other 5, Rayse definitely would have had an opportunity to swipe a bit of Investiture.

Ha. All fair points. And that's all while Vasher is trying to stay out of the spotlight. I don't think he had that same mentality when he was with the 5 Scholars.

Honestly, this might be a mistake on the Coppermind. On Hoid's page it says "Sigzil returned the Dawnshard to Hoid several decades later". But it cites Chapter 21 of Sunlit Man for that claim. And I'm skimming through that chapter right now and I don't see that info anywhere. It just says Sigzil gave it up. Maybe it's stated somewhere else, and they just cited the wrong thing? Edit: I guess it's sort of implied Hoid has it in Chapter 10 when Sigzil says the Night Brigade would find Hoid if they followed Sigzil's Connection to the Dawnshard. I still don't see anything that specifies Sigzil held it for decades before giving it back. Or anything that explicitly says Hoid still has it.

Agreed to pretty much all of this. I'd say I trust Hoid like 10-20% less than you do. I don't think he'd like the choice, but I also don't think he'd have too hard of a time making it. Right, but Sigzil no longer has Exist in his possession. Hoid has it now (as far as we know). I don't think Sigzil could have cured his Torment if he was still in possession of Exist. I'd even wager that his Torment would come back if he were to take up Exist again. I don't think Hoid is willing to permanently part with Exist seeing as he's picked it up at least 3 times now.

Yeah, for some reason, I interpreted the WoB you referenced as "Vasher knows bad things are coming his way" instead of "Bad things are coming Vasher's way". You're right though. It does not imply that Vasher is aware that something bad is coming. My mistake. It was late at night. I do still suspect that Brandon was referring to something besides the disappearance of Stormlight. If Vasher can use Towerlight instead, then he'll be fine. Or he could maybe even use Lifelight from Lift if he can get her to infuse spheres for him. I have trouble believing that the 5 Scholars' previous visit(s) to Roshar were as unimpactful as Vasher's current visit appears to be. This is pure speculation, but I think there's a bigger story there that we haven't heard yet. One that we'll probably learn about in Stormlight Era 2. Another bit of my own ignorance to correct: based on some WoBs about Vasher, it seems likely that he didn't visit Roshar until after the Recreance. Which would mean there's not really a window where he could have met any Fused. Whoopsie

That is being retconned out of existence from what we know. WoBs:

We're talking about this guy's moral code, right? If he's willing to let a world burn, then I think he'd let one person (or dragon) burn. I think the thing that is more likely to hold Hoid back is that he probably couldn't heal his torment and continue to wield his Dawnshard. That being said, I agree that he might be too altered by his prolonged use of Exist for a "normal" sunheart to work. Especially since his spirit web must be the most complicated web in the entire Cosmere given all of the MoIs that he plays with. He probably would need a more potent solution like the one you are describing.

Mmm.. That does kinda kill the whole theory. So.. the fact that Denth and Shashara both have the Royal Locks must mean that one of their parents was a monarch. Wouldn't that make it likely that one of them inherited the throne after their parents? Do we know that Shashara was never queen before she died and Returned? Not that that would help this theory. Because we would still have 500 years-worth of non-monarchs between Shashara and Lift. I'm just curious. Side note: I've been ignoring Denth for pretty much this whole discussion. Most of the stuff I said about Shashara could also apply to him - I just think Shashara would be the more interesting one to have a connection to Lift.

That's actually something I completely forgot. But if Vasher and the Nightwatcher have met, then it could explain why Cultivation understood what Lift was (assuming the rest of this crazy theory holds any weight..) This sounds like you don't think the Royal Locks are at all related to Investiture? I think they have to be some kind of Investiture-related ability. I think Siri converts mass into pure Investiture that is then used to grow hair. I never actually said I think Vasher was the father. I mean he's the obvious choice, but it could have been someone else. Shashara is the parent that really matters since she has the Royal Locks: I think Cultivation's boon does work. I just don't think it's what Lift had in mind when she asked for it. I'm proposing that, instead of stopping Lift's growth, Cultivation "re-wired" the Royal Locks system to still use the same input of food, but allows her to use the Investiture she creates from that food to do things other than growing hair. It's Cultivation granting the wording of wish, but not in the way Lift wanted. Like some kind of genie or monkey's paw. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Right. Per the WoB above, Shashara is part of the Royal bloodline. So, her offspring would be too. I should have included that WoB in my initial post. Also, whether or not Vasher is the father, this would have been centuries ago (like 500 years ago if it was during the Sunmaker's reign). Their child would be Lift's great-great-great-great-great grandparent. There would have been plenty of time to get some melanin into the bloodline. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ It's not about being a Returned. It's about having the Royal Locks; which are separate from the Breath system. P.S. Sorry for addressing everyone at once in a giant message. It just seemed like the easiest path.

I like this quite a bit. I still think the 4th spren existed previously and 'died' whenever the 4th moon fell. But if it is in some kind of deadeye-esque state. Roshar's yearning for the Dawn would be a great way or reason to revive it.

I know I left this topic dead for a while, but I was thinking about this discussion when I had an idea.. Protect, Nurture, Shroud, and <insert 4th thing here> could also be applied to Shallan's personalities. Radiant = Protect (obviously). She helps Shallan exist. Veil = Shroud (they're even synonyms). She helps Shallan change. Shallan = Nurture (this feels like the worst fit, but she did create the others and she's about to be a mother. She also was pretty nurturing towards her brothers in some flashbacks). I guess Shallan does unite all of the personalities in a way? Formless = <insert 4th thing here> (If we're going with the idea that these instructions have something to do with the Dawnshards, Brandon has said before that one of the Dawnshards is "different" from the rest) I don't know what the significance of this could be. But it seemed worth mentioning.

Came very close to hijacking @Nitpicking's topic on Vasher (Uh oh for Vasher), but I thought I'd be getting WAY too off topic. Still, let it be known that I blame Nitpicking for the fact that I'm digging through Arcanum and Coppermind entries this late at night . I basically came across a few different (but possibly connected) facts while reading about Vasher and Nalthis in general that I now have thoughts on. Fact 1: Vasher and Shashara were on Roshar least once before they created Nightblood (Nightblood is an "unsuccessful" attempt at creating an Awakener's version of a Shardblade). Thoughts: Based on a WoB where Brandon didn't seem very sure if there was overlap between Vasher's previous visit(s) and the Sunmaker's crusade, I think it's safe to say that Vasher was on Roshar post-Recreance but not in Alethkar. I also think that he met Nale during this time. This is speculation based on the fact that Nightblood wound up in Nale's possession by the time of WoR. And also because the Skybreakers would have had the only 'living' Shardblades during the time of Vasher's visit; which would have been better inspiration for Nightblood's creation than a 'dead' blade. Fact 2: Growing your hair with the Royal Locks makes you hungry (according to Siri). There's a WoB about this where someone points out this is similar to how Lift's abilities work. Thoughts: This is where I'm going to start sounding crazy. But I'm wondering if Lift's weird ability to metabolize food into Investiture doesn't 100% come from Cultivation's boon. What if Lift is descended from Shashara? We know she's been to Roshar and that her brother has the Royal Locks. I don't see why she couldn't have had a child while she was there. It would also add a bit of an interesting element to Lift's upcoming mentorship from Vasher. I'm sure some of you are already thinking "if she had the Royal Locks, then her hair would change color". But would it? Isn't "not changing" the boon that she asked for? Maybe Cultivation simply kept the 'input' for her Royal Lock powers the same and only altered the 'output'. Side note: I know there's WoBs saying it is just a coincidence that Vasher once went by the name Kalad; which is very similar to Kalak/Kaladin. And that Shashara being similar to Shallash/Shallan is also a coincidence... But I don't buy it. Once is a coincidence. But twice? I don't know about that.

A fun thing to keep in mind about Vasher is that this isn't his first time on Roshar. WoB: We don't have much info at all about his previous visit(s). Or even about his current one. So, there could be many reasons why the Everstorm signals something bad for him. I'm not particularly convinced that the loss of Stormlight was what Brandon was referencing though. If Vasher saw that coming from the presence of the Everstorm alone, then he must have some crazy future sight. I think an easier thing to see coming from the Everstorm's arrival is that the Fused would be arriving. Perhaps Vasher has a history with one of them? I really hope it's El if that's the case.

Very true. And shame on me for not including Navani trusting the Sibling in my list above.

It is more related to the fact that Preservation and Ruin created the humans on Scadrial than it is to the specific nature of Preservation. On most planets, humans were already there when the Shards arrived. I think the only other known exception is Nalthis; where we also see some strange hereditary things going on with the Royal Locks. Relevant WoB:

Do ALL Aether Spores use a Luhel bond? I know midnight spores do. But the others we know about just seem to react to water. I think I maybe remember Verdant and Roseite reacting somewhat to Intent as well, but I may be conflating those with the Aethers from AoN.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I was recently re-reading White Sand and got really interested in the lichen-like organism that Khriss discovers. It seems like this organism is what is actually responsible for Sand Mastery via a Luhel bond with Sand Masters. So, the main question I have is.. Is this really Sand Mastery? Couldn't the lichen be used to manipulate any sufficiently small substance? Could you be Spore Master if you brought it to Lumar (assuming you found a way to keep it Invested)?

Well.. Maybe more of a mirror than an echo here, but this brings Navani to mind for me. Navani's condition of being encased in a gemstone of some kind at the end of WaT not only echoes what she's been doing to spren in fabrials. But it also echoes BAM's imprisonment at the hands of the Sibling's previous Bondsmith, Melishi. I'm really wrestling with the right phrasing on this one, but there is also a recurring theme of characters desperately (and often blindly) trusting one another with incredibly high stakes: Dalinar trusts Kaladin and Szeth with everything in Shinovar Sigzil/Jasnah trusting Venli (and vice versa) with their gambit for Narak Renarin and Rlain trusting BAM Adolin trusting Maya to return with help The Heralds trusting Kaladin Wit trusting Sigzil with the Dawnshard Maybe even Kaladin and Szeth trusting Nightblood could count here?

I don't think we know if it can be used at range. If I had to guess, I'd say no. But I'm not imagining that it would take a long time to turn the sword floppy. It doesn't take a very long moment of contact for Kaladin to use Adhesion on weapons coming at him. I imagine it would be a similar speed to that.

I'm just going to spitball a bunch of ideas without thinking them through: There's plenty of artistic/engineering applications for making any material easy to manipulate and then hardening it back to normal once it's in position: Intricate fabrial cages Reshaping metal/glass without any heat Do what the Focused Ones do to create tightly wound springs/mechanisms Combat applications seem pretty straightforward: Soften your opponent's weapons Harden your opponent's clothes to immobilize them - or throw a cape/sheet at them and harden it around them Create a weapon out of anything Probably some good potential for traps and stuff (ie trap doors or collapsing walls/ceilings by softening integral parts of them) Utility: Pop-up camps. Pack some sheets and rope in your backpack. Make the rope into poles later for a very portable tent. Side note - every tent is a temporary fort when you can harden its walls "Lockpicking". A soft lock isn't stopping anyone. Not that this is really helpful to someone with a Shardblade. Bridges. Throw a sheet over any gap and harden it. Note: I'm starting to think that all Stonewards should just keep long lengths of rope and sheets on them at all times. I think the biggest limitation is how temporary most of these solutions will be. If you harden a shirt into a club, does it stay a club? Or will it revert to its normal rigidity once you run out of Stormlight? My guess would be that it would have similar mechanics and durations for applying a Lightweaving to an object. So, your tent may not last all night if you don't pump it full of Stormlight.

Like conjuring up some illusory painspren to help sell a fake injury? I think this would probably work on a normal person. Glad this was moved, because I'm about to reference Mistborn stuff. But I'll spoiler tag it just in case. Mistborn Era 1 spoilers: Based on that, I'd say Investiture detection would usually be able to tell the difference because they'd pick up on the different tones and rhythms. But there may be a chance of fooling an unskilled detector that's only detecting Investiture and doesn't understand the subtle differences between the various forms of Investiture.

Shardplate seems pretty ideal to me. We saw in WaT that it could adapt to its user's form at least slightly with Adolin's missing leg.

Another thing that could tie into this is that moment towards the end of WaT where Dalinar is "claimed by another". If Unity claimed him, then we may even get to see Dalinar as Unity's champion fighting himself (the Blackthorn) as Retribution's champion in the ruins of Elantris. Which would be cool a scene, but also a part of me hopes that Dalinar's story is over and someone else needs to bring down the Blackthorn instead.

Reviving this because I was just about to propose a very similar theory and found that you beat me to it... I was wandering the Coppermind and this particular quote at the top of Keseg's page stood out to me: It gave me similar suspicions to what you've proposed. It's a pretty clear callout to the Shards. After all, "Unity of love" fits very well with Devotion. And "Unity of obedience" fits well with Dominion. My thoughts are that the Dor has gained sentience over time as Honor appears to be doing in WaT. But that it didn't start from a blank slate. I think it retained portions of Skai and Aona's Cognitive Shadows because of the weird method that Rayse used to trap the Investiture in the Cognitive Realm. I believe it is some strange fusion not just of the 2 Shards, but of the 2 Vessels as well - a Unity of mind. From there, I think this new entity, Unity, would have sought out Rayse for revenge - since it would have some of Skai and Aona's memories. That's why Unity helps Dalinar. It's also why Rayse seems to recognize Unity. As for the 'we' in "We killed you". I think it might just be Rayse referring to himself and Bavadin. There's a WoB where Brandon dances around her involvement in the deaths of Aona and Skai: Some more tangential speculation to back this up: There are hints in WaT that Taravangian may be sending the Blackthorn to Elantris: Perhaps Taravangian, through Odium, knows what Unity is and therefore brings the fight to them before they meddle with Roshar again?

Also worth noting: if the level cap is really 50 as I said above. Most (probably all, but I didn't check exhaustively) Paths only have 24 talents in them. So, you are essentially required to multipath (i.e. even if you've stubbornly stuck to only advancing your Soldier path with your first 24 points, your 25th Talent Point is going to have to go towards a new path).