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Here's a random thought: what if "Pattern" dislikes the concept of eating because it's possible to devour bondingspren like Cryptics somehow? We know that spren can be trapped in gemhearts to access a certain magical effect. What if devouring and metabolizing a spren can produce a greater effect, the same way "burning" metals does in Allomancy? What if one of the intelligent species on Roshar have been Invested with the ability to "burn" spren?

I was under the impression that the Second Ideal of an Order had something to do with the Primary Divine Attribute associated with its Essence. So for Windrunners it is "Protecting". For Edgedancers it is "Loving" (or in Lift's words "caring"), which if you think about it is one way to interpret "I will remember those who have been forgotten". Basically, they promise to perform a particular virtue towards those who need it the most. For Shallan, "illuminating what's hidden" sounds like a function of "Honesty", which is her Secondary Divine Attribute, not her Primary one (which is "Creative"), so that can't be her Second Ideal. Perhaps it's her Third Ideal? As for "learning what was lost", that sounds more like the 5th/Palah Order's "Learned" Attribute, though it's an understandable error since the Ars Arcanum of WoK mistakenly switched the 5th and 7th's Divine Attributes. (Whoops, it appears it was actually the 5th and 2nd Divine attributes that was switched.) If I'm correct about the Primary Divine Attribute connection, then the Lightweavers' Second Ideal would be something like "I will create/find a way for those who are desperate", while the Elsecallers would have something like "I will enlighten those in grave error".

Ah, then I guess he does know about the other nine's betrayal, but perhaps not about Tanavast's death. I was just speculating as to what Brandon meant by "someone who claims to be a Herald." Despite how Talenel retained "Heraldic" characteristics, and despite how people think the "Heralds of the Almighty" are still a thing, it would make sense that they are in fact no longer a thing because the one they are supposed to be heralds of is dead. Besides, the idea that the Oathpact would survive even if only Taln is holding on to it was just speculation on Ishar's part: That sounds to me like an intelligent guess (or rather, Ishar desperately trying to justify his decision to betray his oath) more than a definitive statement. So, it might be possible that the Oathpact no longer exists, and that Taln just doesn't know it yet.

Note that Brandon never said "someone who claims to be Talenel", and that Hoid did not question his identity but merely described him as "confused". Maybe it's just Brandon's way of saying that Taln is still unaware of what his nine ex-partners have done. The title "Herald of the Almighty" no longer exists after the Oathpact was abandoned (and, of course, after the "Almighty" died), so Taln's belief that he is still a Herald is now inaccurate.

When if someone says you're not making any sense, you reply haughtily "We Mistborn need not make sense."

Once again you are referring to the scene after the one I'm talking about. I'll just quote the whole thing here to avoid further confusion: I know that the stone field itself is a place near Kholinar, but the whole dark sky and smoke objects thing is what I was focusing on. The scenes after that (when the dark sky and the smoke things disappeared) are not part of my proposed alternative Shadesmar. It would be nice to hear another theory for that smoke place, though. As for the "liespren" issue, I had the impression that Jasnah made that name up specifically to irritate the Cryptics, the same way Lift likes calling Wyndle a Voidbringer just for the giggles (yeah, I don't buy that stubborn ignorance act of our awesome Edgedancer). Maybe Jasnah has some issues with how the Cryptics operate in Shadesmar, so she decided to give them a less than flattering nickname. Of course, the insult must be based even partially on fact. I'm guessing that there is something about certain kinds of liars that Cryptics look for. Perhaps they prefer to bond with people who try to save others by concealing some truth. In this case, Shallan was trying to save her brothers when she deceived Jasnah, bringing her to the Cryptics' attention.

I'm not saying that all Dalinar's visions are in Shadesmar. I was speculating that the place of smoke scene, specifically, was a vision of Shadesmar. My main reasons are that (1) the smoke-like things seem to represent real objects on the Physical Realm, just as the glass beads in the Soulcaster Shadesmar do, and (2) the place sure as hell doesn't look like any ordinary place on Roshar. No, I'm afraid I don't have any definite proof to show you. It's just an idea that I thought other people here might be interested in hearing, as it pertains to the whole non-Soulcasting KR Orders being able to access Shadesmar concept of the OP.

Oh, I'm sure it doesn't sound like an Alethi place. But Shallan's reasoning was based specifically on what she calls the "jumble of consonants squished together." The "y" in "mydl" acts as a vowel, right? So I would guess the name basically sounds like "a-mid-la-tn" (I have no idea how "la-tn" should be pronounced other than "la-tin"... "la-ʔn" perhaps?). Anyway, it just doesn't seem like much of a "jumble of consonants" to me. Edit: Hmmm... "a-mai-dla-tn" sounds a bit more "consonant squishy" towards the end, so that could work. Sorry, it sounds like I'm really bothered by this, but I'm not. I just laughed out loud when I read that line, but I'm sure there's a good explanation behind it.

Here's a funny tidbit I noticed (from the Santhid chapter): Is it just me, or does this sound a lot like "I Can Hear Spelling" Skip from Brandon's "I Hate Dragons" story? Seriously, though, how could Shallan know that the name had lots of consonants "squished together" just from what Tozbek said? I would have just heard something like "Amidlatin" (assuming that's how it's pronounced), which doesn't look too consonant-heavy to me.

Ah, I almost forgot about that. I hope you can forgive me for being so irritatingly wrong. That was after the "place of smoke" scene that I was referring to. Even if Dalinar is Order 8 (which, according to 11thorderknight's theory, can also access Shadesmar), I don't see how that invalidates my theory that the place of smoke is another way of experiencing Shadesmar.

LOL, I was so focused on Jasnah's spren that I completely missed 11thorderknight's theory about the left and right sides of the KR chart. So that's why you guys keep talking about the "surface tension" surge. I'm intrigued by the possibility that Stonewards could access Shadesmar. You see, I'm starting to espouse the Dalinar is a Stoneward theory, and I remember that in Dalinar's first vision (which he revisited near the end of WoK), he was in a "field of dull, bone-white rock... extending in all directions, off into eternity," with smoke shaped like objects rising from the ground towards a darkened sky. I've once speculated that this was just another manifestation of Shadesmar. The "sea-of-glass-beads" Shadesmar could just be how Soulcasters like Lightweavers and Elsecallers experience the Cognitive realm, while other people who can access the realm (e.g. Hoid, members of the 17th Shard, etc.) experience it in other ways, as do (if my hunch is correct) Stonewards.

Back on topic, one thing I realized is that we've already seen the shadowspren's "reverse shadow" effect before: Axies the Collector also has it, along with (presumably) every other Aimian. I don't know if this means that Aimians also have shadowspren bonded to them, or that they could also access Shadesmar the way Jasnah does. We know that Axies could modify his body at will (create tattoos, suspend his own sense of smell, heal bruises, cure headaches, etc). I'm starting to think that perhaps this power is just a specialized form of Soulcasting, wherein the user Soulcasts individual cells in his own body, granting direct control over minute biological functions. What do you guys think? Another thing that the "shadowspren" reminded me of is the Midnight Essence of the Starfalls chapter. They're both black and liquidy, and the "slick" characteristic of the Midnight Essence might be due to a layer of oil. Could the Midnight Essences actually be shadowspren corrupted by the Unmade? Or maybe I'm wrong and they are just the Vapor/Smoke equivalent of Talus/Stone-based Thunderclasts, I don't know. But anyway, this lead me to another idea, this time connected to the concept of "Elsecalling". We see that Jasnah can control the movement of Taln's statue in Shadesmar. What if this control can also be done on the Physical realm? If so, she could Soulcast an ordinary rock on the Physical realm into something human-shaped and basically create a rock puppet of sorts. Maybe this is what Elsecallers were best known for: controlling golems ("Elses"?) made from various Essences. I guess the main difference between this power and what the Unmade could do is that Elsecallers cannot bring life to their golems or make them semi-independent the way Midnight Essences and Thunderclasts seem to be. Okay, I guess that's enough speculation for now. Update: I added stuff to one of my theories about spren to reflect the new info we've gotten recently about these creatures, including Jasnah's "shadowspren".

Sorry I'm late. Happy birthday, Mokovial!

I certainly wouldn't go near those islands, but it seems that most non-trappers (e.g. those people from the Northern Interests Trading Company) are not used to that level of danger, so I assume that the "homeland" where the company is based must be a relatively safe place to live.

Whoops. Yeah, you're right about the assassin's entity not being revealed in the excerpt. I have this annoying tendency of making plot theories as I read, and sometimes those thoughts get mixed with the memory of what I actually read. Sorry about that!

Perhaps Atium could have helped him ensure a killing blow against Marks, but unless I'm misunderstanding the part I highlighted (English isn't my first language), it seems Bloody Tan was also able to shoot someone hidden in the shadows somewhere behind him, something that Atium could not have helped him with. Sounds more like Chromium Feruchemy to me.

Then there's the Oh Shard of Hangovers, who involuntarily Invests on people who drank too much alcohol the previous night, magically preventing them from experiencing a hangover. The collective hangovers from all these people are instead experienced by the Shard's holder (named Bilious). Incidentally, the holder of the Oh Shard of Hangovers really, really hates Tipsiness-based magic users. Upvotes to those who got the reference.

The thing I liked most about Lift's Interlude (in terms of theory-making) is that we see Lift using three Body Focuses. First, she uses her body's fat reserves (Oil) to produce Stormlight. Then she channels Growth and Friction Surges through her Flesh, similar to how Windrunners can channel Gravity and Pressure Surges to another object via skin contact. Finally, she uses Exhalation to channel Regrowth. This fits perfectly with my previous musings about how the Body Focuses (and the Essences in general) are connected to Surgebinding. As for Shadows of Self, it seems that whatever that Bloody Tan-lookalike was, it also has Bloody Tan's tremendous "luck". Do we have WoB that Tan was a Spinner? If so, then I don't think this is a kandra using Tan's corpse since I don't think kandra can copy a person's powers. It's more likely that Bloody Tan used Hemalurgy somehow to obtain Gold Compounding before Wax got to him in the previous book.

If I recall correctly, Allomantic technology will be a major part of the third Mistborn trilogy (the one that's supposed to have sci-fi elements). Since the consensus here seems to be that Hemalurgy-based Allomantic technology is at best a useful evil and at worst a horrifying and inexcusable evil, I think Brandon probably has a less controversial kind of Allomantech in mind for the third trilogy. I'm not saying that the Southern Scadrians did not use Hemalurgy for their tech. That's still a mystery to us. But if they did, then someone (probably from the North) will have to come up with a less bloody alternative at some point in the story's timeline.

Mine is 2423-3215-0679. I'll add you guys later when I get home from work. I'm not even halfway into the game yet (just finished the second gym) but I'm pretty certain that Generation VI is now one of my favorite Pokemon versions ever (along with generations I and III).

Alright, I concede that it's a valid theory. The Hemalurgic spike would dictate the effect of the Mist-invested metal. Now I'm interested to hear speculations on how the whole process could work. There would have to be a way of inducing metals to absorb Mist, since they apparently don't do that automatically (otherwise the Northern Allomancers would surely notice), unlike in Roshar where gemstones absorb Stormlight even without Spren. Any thoughts?

Ah, now I understand. I'm not quite sure Hemalurgic charges can be considered equivalent to spren, though. Hemalurgic charges, if I understand them correctly, are forms of Invested power, similar to the Mists, Stormlight, Feruchemical charges, etc. The only difference is that Mist and Stormlight are "raw Investiture" (my term), while Hemalurgic and Feruchemical charges have already been shaped by the intent of their users.

Oh. I'm sorry about that. You're correct, Kadrok. Allomancy does exist on Southern Scadrial. I misread that WoB when I first encountered it months ago. My bad. But... won't the Southern Allomancers always be in hiding if their society is after their blood (literally)? Well, my understanding is that Chaos' theory is that Scadrian "fabrials" are powered by mist, while Kadros' is about using Hemalurgic spikes to power them somehow. I'm sorry if I missed something. Me, I just wanted to share a theory that involves the mysterious "final metal" somehow. But yeah, as long Brandon keeps on RAFOing our Southern Scadrial questions, we should enjoy making as many of these theories as we want.

The Hemalurgy Tech theory looks interesting, but I'm not sure how Southern Scadrians can get Allomancy-infused spikes, seeing as none of them are Allomancers. I think they can only make Hemalurgic spikes for normal human attributes (i.e. Iron, Tin, Zinc, and Copper Hemalurgy). So, that still doesn't answer how the Southerns harnessed Allomancy via technology. I think Chaos' idea, Mist-fuelled Allomancy Tech, is a bit more likely. Do we know if the Mists existed in Southern Scadrial? My own crazy theory involves using gold-aluminum intermetallics as catalysts for inducing the Allomantic effects of metals. Yes, I'm a bit obsessed with aluminum and gold when it comes to the Metallic Arts (see the other theories in my sig). The reason why I think another metal is the key is two-fold: The first is Miles' dying words about the "bearers of the final metal," which I presume to be a reference to the Southern Scadrians. Second is how aluminum's Allomantic (anti-Allomantic?) power manifests itself even without burning it. I put those two things together and concluded that the final metal is an alloy of aluminum whose presence induces Allomancy in other metals. It can't be duralumin, because that metal was known in Northern Scadrial pre-Harmony. Anyway, I'm not yet ready to justify why I chose gold-aluminum specifically. I just wanted to put this theory out there in case somebody else finds it interesting. :-)

Ah, yes. I read that interview last week. So, we still don't know whether or not the Memory ability is from a Surge. I'll just stick to my assumption that it is, since that seems like a simpler explanation. Maybe. Though, it kind of feels weird to think that healing is just a Stormlight side-effect. Do you have WoB on this? I'd like to think that, given what we've seen so far, the effect of holding Stormlight differs for each type of Surgebinder. Anyway, barring any evidence to the contrary, I'll hold on to the idea that Kaladin's healing is a form of Regrowth, even if he doesn't have Edgedancing's other abilities.