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Thanks! Yeah, the speculation about how the theoretical "spell-casting" of the Kak Order could be similar to spell-casting Investiture on other Shardworlds was just for fun. It was a whimsical thought that I just wanted to add at the end. But how about the fact that it fixes itself after a while? It can't be Re-Growth since that only applies to organic things. All I can think of is that it's another form of Division-diminishing.

Thanks again for the comments, Moogle. I'm not sure if you noticed my recent edit regarding the pain knife. Perhaps I was editing it while you were reading the previous version, but I've already revised my analysis of the pain knife, and I now mention the flamespren as well. Oh, and I'm not sure it'd be wise to make a different thread for all the parts of my theory (I expect to post about two more parts), but if lots of people start commenting on Part II then I'll start a new thread for it.

So, I've been thinking a lot about the different Surges and Altering Fabrials recently while developing my general theory on fabrials, when I realized something: Shardplate and Shardblades are deeply connected with the Division Surge. Shardplate is a Division Diminisher, while a Shardblade is a Division Augmenter. Except they don't strictly require gemstone fabrials. Sure, Shardplate can be powered by infused gemstones, but those gemstones aren't fabrials, and they won't even be necessary once a Stormlight-wielding Surgebinder wears it. Similarly, we've recently seen that the gemstones in some Shardblades can be removed without destroying the Blade; they are not necessary. The gems are probably just bonding fabrials added by modern Shardbearers to "improve" their bond with the Shardblade. Yet, somehow, these magical armor and weapon combo act like fabrials. Sharplate resists being damaged (damage=division) and will eventually reform even when it does get damaged. In the same manner, Shardblade does almost nothing but divide things, even souls, and even itself (whenever it disintegrates into mist upon dismissal). So, it appears that living beings and fabrial gemstones are not the only things on Roshar that can access Surges. What's so special about the Plate and the Blade that they can do this? If only we have a clue... like, if there was a Essence that's associated with metallic weapons and armor that might suggest an explanation for it. Oh wait, we do have one: the Essence of Foil, the Essence of Kalak's Order, the Order that can access the Transportation Surge and an unknown Surge. (They are also connected to the Dustbringers who, interestingly enough, can access the Division Surge, but that's just an aside.) I highlighted the Transportation Surge because I believe it is central to learning about why some Foil-based objects can access Surges. I theorize that just as gemstones are used to store Stormlight and add Intent to it, metals can be used to transport this Intent-laden Stormlight. Metals are Stormlight conduits and transmitters. This is why all fabrials we've seen so far are attached to jewelry or machines that are metallic. It's not just to make them look cool or pretty. Those fabrials simply won't work without metal. And this is why Shardplate and Shardblade can use the Division Surge. I believe that the members of the Kak Order were capable of molding Stormlight into complex "Surge spells" (possibly using their unknown Surge) that they could then program directly into metallic objects (using the Transportation Surge) without the need for gemstones. So, they simply infused each Plate and Blade with Stormlight with "Surge spells" that target the Division Surge. Perhaps they had help from Dustbringers (who can, I believe, share their Stormlight with other people) for that task. That's my theory! Now, two questions: Wouldn't you bet that the Oathgates were made of metal? What would you think if the spell-making-related Surge required the Surgebinder to say their spells out loud (similar to Awakening), or perhaps required to draw markings on the metal using Stormlight-filled fingernails (similar to AonDor)? Edit: Reworded some things for clarity.

I think it is possible that Shen is a spy. But I think it would also be cool if he was just an ordinary Parshman who gained dullform without any help from the Parshendi. Or he could have been the result of (covert) experimentation by some Alethi scientist who wanted to understand the difference between Parshmen and Parshendi. The aside made by Kaladin regarding Shen might have been foreshadowing that Shen will be wrongly accused of espionage once news spreads about the actual Parshendi spies.

Ah, well, I guess I'll have to officially abandon my belief that all Shardblades are of Odium. *thinks of a different Shardblade theory*

Part II: Altering Fabrials In Part I, I used the Allomantic terms "Pulling" and "Pushing" to describe the processes of decreasing and increasing a Surge, respectively. I understand that this can make some readers uncomfortable, and I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep doing it for now since it really is an elegant way of describing Surgebinding for me. When a gemstone is of a certain Essence, then it will absorb the Surge of that Essence, pulling that Surge towards itself, thereby decreasing its effect. If the gemstone is of the opposite Essence, then the opposite effect happens. The Surge is repelled by the gemstone, pushing it outwards, increasing its effect. Rosharian scholars use a similar pair of terms: "diminishing" and "augmenting". But those terms are used to describe the effects of two specific classes of fabrials: the Diminishers and the Augmenters, collectively known as the altering fabrials. Like any fabrial, Augmenters and Diminishers increase or decrease a Surge, and thus the table I created in Part I applies to them as well. But unlike pairing fabrials (which I already discussed) and Alerters (which we'll discuss in Part III), altering fabrials actually change their surroundings, not just themselves. Let us look at a few of them (in spoiler tags to control the length of this post). Temperature Fabrials Re-Growth Fabrials Clock Fabrials Soulcaster Fabrials

For that matter, why do ruby conjoiners decrease Division? This is actually why I chose to use the Allomantic "Pull/Push" terminology. An emerald Growth fabrial would "pull" the Growth surge inwards, into itself, because it is attracted to that Surge. The opposite would be true for heliodor Growth fabrials, so they would actually boost that Surge.It would be interesting to see an emerald Growth fabrial, though. Will it reverse aging, or merely stop it? Oh, and about the Primary Surge theory, I admit it's not very strong, since my only basis is the lack of Smokestone Division fabrials that I know of. I only like it because each Primary Surge fits its Order's name (in so far as we know the name) better than the Order's other Surge.

According to the table I made, Heliodor would actually boost the Growth Surge.

@Moogle: Even if they didn't have spren, there will have to be some method of indicating that a fabrial should use a particular Surge (in this case, Transformation). It's my theory that you'll have to use either a smokestone or a zircon, cut it a particular way (maybe even trap a spren in it... or not) before the fabrial can even be capable of using the Transformation Surge. Only once you've done that can you start adding gemstones (in a specific geometric configuration, I'd bet) depending on the desired Soulcasting result.

WoB, please?Anyway, even if old fabrials don't have spren, the question remains: Do all of the gemstones on the fabrial dictate what Surge will be used? Or is there a central gemstone dictating that?

Indeed. But a fabrial must have at least one gemstone that has a spren trapped in it. I was assuming that in real Soulcasting fabrials, the extra gemstones only serve in focusing the Intent, and that only one gemstone acts the center, the one determining that the Surge of Transformation will be used, the one that actually contains the spren.It's also possible that all the gemstones in the Soulcaster have trapped spren, in which case my theory falls apart. Edit: As for the idea that the Dustbringer was binding the Friction Surge to run through the water, I imagine that lessening the friction of the water will result in sliding movement ("Edgedancing"), which would actually be a hindrance to running. Am I missing something?

Welcome to the Bondsmiths for Ishar Club, Moogle! I do believe that the Surges are multi-purpose. For example, we've seen two ways of using the Growth Surge: the normal "Growth" ability and the "Re-Growth" ability. Those two things may both involve biological things, but healing something is still quite different from merely accelerating its growth, especially since Re-Growth can apparently heal Shardblade damage. So, I don't think it's a stretch that Division can mean division in any of the three Realms. I agree that Spirit-Synchronization is quite abstract, but given how Basic Lashing changes one's spiritual connection with the planet, and how Soulcasting makes objects see themselves as different in the Cognitive Realm in order for their whole Identity to literally transform, I don't think Spiritual transfer of Stormlight is all that weird compared to the rest. After all, the Dustbringers' Essence is the Spark, which is associated with the Soul. Shouldn't it at least have some spiritual abilities? As for Soulcasting fabrials, I'm okay with modern Roshar not being able to replicate the originals (if that's even the case). The point is that Soulcasting fabrials exist, and they can access Transformation Surge the same way ancient Knights Radiant once did. By the way, just to avoid confusion, it was my understanding that the ten Surges are the actual fundamental forces on Roshar. Any attempt to create a "magical" effect (e.g. what all fabrials do) will involve manipulating the Surges somehow. In fact, from the following dialogue between Jasnah and Shallan (WoR, chapter 3), I'm positive that the Ten Surges' existence is already commonly known among Rosharian scholars: So, yes, fabrials of all types do manipulate the Surges. Edit: Thanks to Bloodfalcon for noting how the ruby pommel of Salinor's Shardblade was somehow connected to his spiritual bond with the Blade. Also, thanks to Moogle for reminding me of other types of ruby fabrial. I shall check them out later!

I was re-reading the Ars Arcanum the other day, particularly the section about fabrials, when I re-stumbled upon this part about Spanreeds: We're all probably aware of spanreeds at this point, but recent information we've gotten about Words of Radiance have led me to re-analyze the words I quoted above, as well as the rest of "On the Creation of Fabrials". We know that the fabrials are another way to access the Surges apart from Surgebinding or Voidbinding, and we also know that Soulcaster fabrials in particular mimicked the Soulcasting ability of some Lightweavers and Elsecallers, so I believe that studying the fabrials (their effects, the gemstones they use, etc.) would let us gain insight into how the different Knights Radiant used their Surges. Table of Contents Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone Pairs Part II: Altering Fabrials Part III: Warning Fabrials Conclusion: How to Create a Fabrial Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone Pairs Let's consider the Ruby gemstone, associated with both conjoiner fabrials and the Order of Dustbringers. The interesting thing about conjoiners is that even though the original ruby has been halved into two separate ruby pieces, they still act as one. In Surgebinding and Realmatic terms, the effect of the Division Surge on those two ruby halves is significantly decreased. Reducing division increases unity. Now check out this relevant tidbit from Dalinar's Purelake vision: Some people have already speculated that the Knight Radiant in that vision was a Dustbringer (Surges: Division and Friction), and that she was somehow making the non-KR soldiers glow with Stormlight. The other theory was that the soldiers were non-KR Surgebinders who just so happened to take in Stormlight at the same time. But if we assume that Conjoiners actually mimic one aspect of Dustbringers, then one very neat solution presents itself: The Dustbringer was manipulating the Surge of Division. Specifically, she was decreasing the spiritual division between herself and her soldiers, giving all of them some level of spiritual synchronization. If Parshendi could perform supernaturally synchronized feats (which probably use the Division Surge somehow as well), wouldn't it be awesome if the Dustbringers of old (and maybe even Skybreakers) could do the same? But how about Reversers? They also seem to manipulate Division, increasing the division between objects. In the vision, the Knight could run through water with "uncanny ease". I'm betting that she did it by increasing her own Division from the water, making herself "more separate" from it, so that to her the water no longer interacted with her feet, allowing her to run as if the water wasn't there. Increasing and decreasing Division, two ways of manipulating the same Surge, performed by the same Knight Radiant. Pretty impressive for a vision scene, eh? Back to fabrials, why do Reversers use Amethyst instead of Ruby, if Ruby is the Dustbringer gemstone? If you look at the Knights Radiant chart, Ruby and Amethyst are actually connected to each other, and they are on opposite sides of the chart. This could indicate that every gemstone has a designated partner, one that has a reverse effect when manipulating a particular Surge. One gemstone decreases ("Pulls"?) the influence of a Surge, while its opposite gemstone increases ("Pushes"?) it. Also, the fact that Ruby fabrials can manipulate Division, while Smokestone ones cannot so far as we know (even though Skybreakers can supposedly manipulate Division), suggests that each Order has a primary Surge (despite being able to bind two Surges). Edit: Here's a more thorough theory on why an Order must have a Primary Surge (the Surges are to KR Orders as the Attributes are to Essences). Given all these things, I made a table showing each Order, their Primary Surge, and those Surges' "pulling" and "pushing" gemstones (pardon the Allomantic terminology), or gemstone pairs: Order# | Essence | Order Name | Primary Surge | Surge-"Pulling" Gemstone | Surge-"Pushing" Gemstone Jez | Zephyr | Windrunners | Pressure | Sapphire | Garnet? Nan | Vapor | Skybreakers | Gravitation | Smokestone | Zircon Chach | Spark | Dustbringers | Division | Ruby | Amethyst Vev | Lucentia | Edgedancers | Friction | Diamond | Topaz? Palah | Pulp | Truthwatchers | Growth | Emerald | Heliodor Shash | Blood | Lightweavers | Illumination | Garnet | Sapphire? Betab | Tallow | Elsecallers | Transformation | Zircon | Smokestone Kak | Foil | Willshapers | Transportation | Amethyst | Ruby Tanat | Talus | Stonewards | Cohesion | Topaz | Diamond? Ishi | Sinew | Bondsmiths | Tension | Heliodor | Emerald As you can see, there are still unknowns and uncertainties. For one, we don't even know what kind of spren need to be trapped for a fabrial to access a particular Surge. And we don't know what the extra connections between Sapphire, Diamond, Garnet, and Topaz are supposed to mean in terms of fabrial creation. But there are a number of interesting things as well. For example, notice that the Surge-"Pushing" Gemstone for Transformation is apparently Smokestone. Well! Jasnah's Soulcaster fabrial may be fake, but she probably at least made it look believable, so we can bet that those rare multi-function Soulcaster fabrials that Shallan talked about have Smokestone in them, and now we know why! Perhaps the other Soulcaster fabrials with limited functionality use Zircon instead? If not, what could a Transformation-"pulling" effect look like? What other interesting things can you find in my table of Fabrial pairs? Which types of fabrial do you think should be discovered next? I hope to post the second and third parts of my General Fabrial Theory by the end of the week. In the meantime, feel free to discuss!

@WeiryWriter: Yeah, I too found that a bit odd about the Shadesmar map. Maybe planetary souls are considered "thinking" things, so Shadesmar would have a similar shape to the Physical Realm of the Shardworlds. Anyway, the important thing is that there seems to be land on Roshar-Shadesmar where bodies of water are on the Roshar Physical Realm.

I don't think so. In this case, Syl's "we" refers to spren, while "your" refers to the silly little humans on Roshar who think natural forces on their planet are unbreakable laws. It is the spren making an agreement with each other to make Rosharian Physics seem consistent... most of the time.

Indeed, I think this might just be the case. But the question remains about Syl's enigmatic words about gravity (and presumably other forces) being an "agreement between friends". When a piece of marshmallow touches one of the flames of a campfire, does the marshmallow burn because that's just what flames do to marshmallows (i.e. transferring a certain amount of heat just so happens to cause a chemical reaction on the marshmallow)? Or is there an agreement between the marshmallowspren and the flamespren in the Cognitive Realm to make their Physical Realm equivalents behave a certain way? This sort of reminds me about the chapter "The Ethics of Elfland" in G.K. Chesterton's book Orthodoxy (yeah, I suspect that Brandon named the Shadows for Silence villain after one of my favorite authors ). In it, he puts forth the notion that, no matter how extensive or accurate our scientific models for natural phenomena may be, it is still possible to see nature as completely magical. Here's an excerpt that just so happens to talk about gravity: I think of spren as another way of imagining this notion. We now know (to a certain extent) the normal mechanics of how objects/molecules/atoms/sub-atomic particles interact with each other. But why do they interact with each other? What if every single thing is actually alive and is merely behaving consistently in a pre-determined/agreed-upon manner because that's what it wants to do? (Note that I don't actually believe that marshmallows have minds. Spren are Brandon's fictional inventions, and I suspect Chesterton did not really believe that apples can fly.)

Whoops, sorry Chaos. I should've double-checked which tab I was on. Thanks for moving it!

Okay, so we know based on the map of Shadesmar that the Cognitive and Physical Realms on Roshar look similar, except the land areas on the Physical Realm are "seas" on Shadesmar (probably the sea of glass beads that Shallan and Jasnah are familiar with), and the bodies of water on the Physical Realm appear to be stable land on Shadesmar. We also know from Jasnah that spren have cities on Shadesmar. Here's my question: wouldn't it make sense for the spren cities to be located on Shadesmar "land" (i.e. on Roshar waters)? So, does that mean that if Shallan and Jasnah travel to Shadesmar while they are still on Tozbek's ship, there's a chance they'll find themselves in a spren city? Also, given the mysteries behind the Purelake, I wonder what they'll find in its Shadesmar equivalent. Could it perhaps be where Urithiru is located? Or perhaps it's on the Sea of Spears in Alethkar (since the Knights Radiant used to rule Alethela back in the day)? Finally, we know that the Origin of the highstorms are somewhere to the east of Roshar (somewhere in the "Ocean of Origins"). Could that be the city where Syl is from? The city that Stormfather rules? I hope we find out in a couple of months! Post-WoR Edit: So, we got confirmation that travelling to Shadesmar while at sea results in being on Shadesmar land, which apparently is made of obsidian. Cool! Sadly, we didn't get to see any spren cities, and we now know that Urithiru is on the Physical Realm, hidden behind certain mountains on Roshar.

Ooh, that's pretty awesome. Link please? I was starting to think that maybe the Stormfather was the Splinter that Jezrien held as a Herald before the breaking of the Oathpact, and that it became an independent spren and king of a city in Shadesmar afterwards. But Jezrien retaking his Honorblade and remaining as a Herald and as Stormfather also sounds cool.

More info about spren More info about Soulcasting, Lightweaving, and "Elsecalling" Possible appearance of a Bondsmith spren Talenel The Sanderson Avalanche Yeah, that's about it. :-)

The part above your "latest interpretation" section looks pretty solid to me, marianmi. I'd like to know how you came up with your realmatic grouping (the vertical groups), though. I agree with hoser that the right side of the chart seems to have a more spiritual theme. We know (based on Szeth) that on Roshar, gravity is a spiritual connection between objects. The Body Focuses of the right-side Essences (Inhalation, Exhalation, the Soul, and the Eyes) are also often associated with spirituality. Soulcasting manipulates the Cognitive, so that's another point for hoser's interpretation. Hopefully we'll get info on Orders 5 and 10 soon (like, in the final chapter giveaway? *wishes*) so we can find more clues about the KR chart.

My theory is that Lift had a traumatic experience (like, maybe her parents died) that left her with a major case of clinical depression, making her incapable of caring about anything. At first she embraced this mental disorder (explaining the "I wanted to be like you, once" thing she said to Darkness), but for some reason she realized that this state of mind was wrong and that she had to do something about it. So she went to the Nightwatcher and asked to be able to love again. That was her boon. Her curse was that she'll get hungry more often than other people. What the Nightwatcher didn't say was why Lift will get hungry more often.

Then it'd be better to turn the Parshmen into Worker form Parshendi. Heck, they could even keep some of them as servants that way (though I'm sure most will want to gain freedom at some point). As for Lightweavers' Second Ideal and the Creative Attribute, remember that the Ideals all came from Nohadon's book The Way of Kings, which is all about virtuous living. So "creative" in this sense will probably be less of the "artistic" type and more of the "solving problems" type. I think Lightweavers were supposed to be a really helpful bunch; they were probably the consultants and councillors of Ancient Roshar. In this case, I think the Creative Attribute shined brightest in Shallan's participation in the plan to save her family. That's where she showed Lightweaver-worthy creativity; her artistic ability I think was only secondary. (This is all under the assumption that the Second Ideal is always related to the Primary Attribute, of course )

That's probably true, yeah. Of course, while he might have said that for that reason, Brandon might have had multiple reasons for putting that dialogue in... like, say, to hint at another way to harness Rosharian Investiture. I know, I know, I should stop making such random theories... *grumbles while walking away*

That's what I'd like to believe as well. Order 5's Essence is Pulp, and it's symbolized by what looks like an image of a plant; the whole thing just screams "Cultivation" to me. The warrior-like look of Order 10's symbol sort of suggests Honor... it is kind of a weak link, yes, but then there is also the fact that Order 10 and Order 5 are somewhat separated from the rest of the Orders on the Double-Eye chart, making those two look important, somehow. Still, there is more evidence for the Order 1 = 100% Honor and Order 6 = 100% Cultivation theory in the actual text we have right now (for the simple reason that we've yet to see Orders 10 and 5 members): Jezrien, Herald of the Windrunners, is the leader of the Heralds and so therefore (presumably) closest to Honor. "Stormfather's spren" (what I now call spren of Syl's type) grant the power to "bind things", which seems to be Honor's thing. Lightweavers (who are on the opposite side of the chart from the Windrunners) have Cryptics, who we know have some sort of rivalry with honorspren, so they're probably aligned to Cultivation. Cryptics seem to have a prominent place in Shadesmar, suggesting that they're of a "purer" breed and therefore closer to a Shard's Intent (in this case, Cultivation's). It all fits, except for the unfortunate fact that Windrunners are on the top right of the chart and Lightweavers on the bottom left, instead of the more prominent middle (where Orders 5 and 10 reside). My only hope is that Bondsmiths are actually Order 10. Their spren will have to "bind" something as well (to justify the Order name), so they should also have a claim to the title of "honorspren". Or (if Order 10 is some other Order) maybe... *gasp*... maybe there are no 100% Honor spren left, because they all died along with Tanavast! (Okay, that's the worst case scenario, since that would mean Order 10 would not be revived. )