Alatar

In the epigraphs quoting the RoW book, presumably Raboniel says that she also has a chain which anchors you through Cognitive Anomalies. I'm on the phone so I can't quote the exact wording but she says something about the place of origin that seems Threnody. WoB from the release party may even exist? I'm not sure, sorry, I don't think I'll have time these days to dig that out but I remember being sure when I wrote that.

I remember that at one moment it's said that it was a mountain itself (can't remember if Venli says that or it was a WoB during release that I read here), so maybe the floors are what fits in the height of the mountain.

It's too late and I'm tired so I've only read some parts but I see the picture and just wanted to add one thing: These books are big, each one is bigger that all the LoTR story (the 3 volumes), and they are comprised of a lot of stories and characters and arcs. I think that you'll like one book or another, or none at all or love all of them depending on how much of what you like and dislike takes the space of that specific book. I, for example, struggled with WoK but found the scene of Bridge 4 rescue and then Dalinar handling the Shardblade to be the most epic thing I've ever read, so I liked it, don't remember anything of notice of WoR, OB feels the same as Wok, boring in parts but an epic ending that I love, RoW has some boring parts but the bits that I love compensate them. That was my example, everybody will have a different mix and some will love WoR while they'll loathe OB or whatever they feel about each book. This grows with each volume because we expect each one to be bigger, more epic, more magic. But I think the books in itself are awesome and all the parts are very well written, it's just that some things I like and some I don't. For example, R.A. Salvatore Crimson Shadow has a 200 pages battle. It bore me to death, but I know for a fact that some people enjoy that a lot. I can't stand Gabriel Garcia Marquez's magic realism, but it's praised all over the world. It's not that the plot is badly written, it's that there are several story arcs and your sensibilities make you enjoy some and hate others, and that's OK. Just seeing the "summary" that @quackquack has done in the OP, we can realise the amazing amount of stuff there is in this book. For the people who say that the story hasn't advanced, really, you should check how many things happen, to the characters, to the state of the war, to the countries, to the secret societies, to Shadesmar, to the cosmere... Really, A LOT of things happened in this book, maybe you're not interested in some of the things that happen, but they happened nonetheless, and to other people eyes, they're very interesting.

I've read that statement a lot of times, and as many times people try to clarify that point, they seem to be ignored. Kaladin doesn't ORDER Yunfah to bond Rlain, he orders him to consider Rlain as he's being sidelined just for being non human, that means, discriminated because of his race. He even gives Yunfah a timeline (2 weeks IIRC) to consider it before he can move to another squire. That means Yunfah has the choice, he's just ordered to stop discriminating Rlain. And that, when Syl tells Kaladin that he could probably order him to bond. On the morals of sapient spren, that's also a common human mistake. We humanize animals, objects and, in this case, supernatural beings from fantasy books. Spren aren't human in the sense that human being, although bound by morals and upbringing, are really free to act. You can actually act against your moral principles or values, while a spren would break (die) if it tried to do so. As Zahel / Vasher says, they are Investiture with awakened consciousness, but Investiture has Intent and Connection which bounds them. That's why the RK can't summon their Blades until the 3rd Ideal, for example, you need the Connection and Intent to align with that of your spren type. Once you reach that level, both spren and person are bonded in such a way that their intents align, so the RK won't summon the Blade to do something that the spren would disapprove. If they did, that would mean the bond breaking and, in the present situation, the spren becoming a deadeye. In fact, humans are so dangerous for spren because, as unlimited beings, they can act against their oaths, thus breaking the bonds and damaging the spren, but it'll be very difficult for a RK of a high Ideal to go against their oaths, because they're commited and the bond with their spren is really strong and also affects them. So, it's not that they have to debate with their spren whether to do this or that, they FEEL it through their bond. The only debates we see are nurturing said radiant towards advancment in the bond. As we see, they can even know how to advance, but they can refuse to do so because they're not commited (Kaladin's 4th Ideal, for example), or the advancment being denied because they're not really commited (Venli's 2nd one).

This chart is very good, but, with the name dropping and development seen in RoW (which can't be used because of spoilers), there are at least 2 Shards that I'd place instead and Autonomy in the quadrant of Passion / Feel. Autonomy fits better in the Survive quadrant. Also, as they are Commands, Inspire I don't think is a good fit for the name of the Dawnshard, Feel fits better with the Command Change, in my opinion. Also, I petition to use the names dropped in RoW here, they're just names, after all, I don't think they're even minor spoilers, but I submit to Moderator Wisdom.

I didn't say that, I meant going out of Roshar (maybe even as a servant of Odium) and UNITE THEM. You see, I think Cultivation is the best when seeing the different futures and has a lot of plans in place. It'd be just as twisted as Brandon does it to have Dalinar become Odium's pawn only to do the thing Odium doesn't want, with a little help of a friend. Also, as @trav said, he seems to have full power and no intent interfering, and that situation is interesting.

Would you please explain that to the millions of fans who love Mistborn EXCEPT FOR THE END? I'd rather you started with my wife, who keeps saying those exact words, more than 10 years later That's why I said no happy ending, I think that for the cosmere Dalinar acting as Odium's servant is much more interesting, so he has to lose. Of course, I think Brandon surely knows that we expect this, and I bet he already has something prepared to surprise us. Which doesn't mean they won't still lose the duel, of course, but nothing is that simple, and there's always another secret, specially since we know Scarred Boy is lurking in the background.

Sanderson's stories always have a "good" ending, he's not a grim dark writer. Sometimes the main characters die, sometimes the villain kind of wins... But the end is, at least, hopeful. That said, no way book 5 is going to be happy. Mainly, because this is a 2-series story, so this isn't really the end. Also, because this story is very Cosmere relevant and we need Dalinar out there, so he has to lose the duel and be tied to Odium. Furthermore, Kaladin will probably "die" one way or the other, maybe to save the day, maybe to reforge the Honorpact, or to become Honor's Vessel or... Well, as I see it, the end is going to hurt. Anyway, I think BS has confirmed that some of the youngsters here, like Lift, will be main characters in the second SA series, so book 5 is kind of a season finale, not really the end. Disclaimer: all of the above are opinions and assumptions, you're free to believe in a happy ending book 5

Very good point. It also seems that new Vessels are much more dynamic and independent of their Shard's Intent, see what happened with Scadrial! So, do you think we'll see Dalinar going out and Uniting Ambition, Devotion and Dominion so that someone takes them?

Maybe that's the importance of the final "Dirty Tricks", Hoid realising that something happened and prompting him to investigate and find out that the body is Rayse's. Remember that he sometimes have access to Fortune, which directs him towards locations or people at relevant moments, without the clear understanding of why he has to be there. So, maybe he realises something is amiss, checks on the body and swaps it to do shenanigans. We'll probably even have a scen in book 5 (or several) firmly stating that Taravangian's body was cremated, to misdirect us. On @Mason Wheeler's OP, that WoB is very good, but I don't know if it applies for something very relevant here. As @Karger says, maybe it would have been useful for Sazed to scramble the brains for their knowledge on how to control the Shards and get some insight from the Shattering. In this sense, it would be useful for Taravangian. Or maybe it will be relevant, who knows at this point.

@Seloun You're right, Hoid isn't infalible, in fact, none is in the cosmere, it seems. But the text you quoted seems to imply that Hoid acknowledges the failure, while Dirty Tricks implies that he's oblivious about it after having not one, but three hints that something happened. That on itself makes me think that Hoid is just acting as if he doesn't know, but he's really aware that something happened. How much? That's unclear, but I wouldn't say that he's completely aware of the first conversation.

I said it's good or bad depending on your mood and how it's written. Kaladin's arc hold no tension for me, I wasn't the least worried about him because I knew what the end would be, and that means bad in my book. If you like your expectations fulfilled (which I like ocasionally, too), then it can be a good experience. Granted, it's well written, even though I knew everything was coming that way, I enjoyed the details, like Tien's vision, and had some feeling about it, not just indifference. I like the book for other arcs and for the general feeling, but I can still think this part is the worst for me. Shallan and Adolin's part has the same problem, at least for me, although I thank Brandon for not healing Maya and Shallan in one go, at least, which is what I was expecting. So, I'll repeat it at the end: it's good or bad depending on what you want at that moment, to be surprised or to be fulfilled, depends on the reader.

I think the Wells count, and more, Kellsier has tricked Death itself, as mythic tricksters often do (I can't remember the names but I'm thinking more on the slavic folktales, like those compilated by Afanasiev, also I think the inspiration for the Deathly Hallows from Harry Potter). When I first read the book, it seemed to me that Hoid was tricksted but the more I think of it I agree with @Serack , he's let himself been tricked. Technically, he was tricked, but he knew something was going to happen and he knows something happened. If just one question from Taravangian made him realise it wasn't Rayse, the obvious and repetitive hints (his spren and coins are not where he remembers them, the perfect pitch) should make him pause for sure, but he doesn't want Odium to know that he knows. Other thing is that he has some backup or he knows exactly what happened (I guess he doesn't) but he knows something happened which wasn't meant to. And, going back to the trickster archtypes, I think both Kell and Hoid have already stablished themselves as those archtypes and live the tales that lead them there, Kell with the Wells and the cheating Death, and Hoid with the story in Liar of Partinel that some people know (I don't) and will be retold, as well as other appeareances. Just, we haven't been told his story yet. In fact, I can imagine myself saying to Hoid (or Kell): "¿Do you know why you hate him so much? Because you're exactly the same" and, to his outrage, reply "That's exactly what HE said"

Maybe he doesn't even need to attack it, and he's been in contact with some of the important sprens to get them bodies because they want to live in the Physical Realm, we've seen those in charge have a very twisted sense of Honor and I wouldn't put them above a plot like that.

I don't mean predictable in the way of analysing them and predicting the way they can roll, but in the way that they're very stereotypical. It's bad or wrong depending on the mood you are on, the way it's done, so it's different for everyone. Kaladin and Shallan are the absolute protagonists of this series, and it shows in their arcs, they can be really bad and down but we know they'll end up the book in better shape than in the beginning. For me, that's bad but not irredeemable, you can see for other people it's quiet bad. Fortunately, we're coming to the end of the first 5 book series, so now they can end with sacrifice or happy ending or whatever, so it'll be at least a bit of a surprise.

The Raboniel - Navani plot is brilliant. Of course, it's up to what everybody likes or dislikes, because this is not a plot about battles or strategies or overcoming ones failures (well, that is a bit) but a duel of the minds, Navani trying to outthink Raboniel, who in turn tries to manipulate Navani. And that's done brilliantly. Raboniel's intentions and motivations are pretty clear in the end: she's a scientist, a very reputed one, and those have sometimes a god complex, they think that with sufficient study and resources you can do anything. And the Fused have all the time in the world, as they're immortal. She tries to control the mental decay by having her daughter and herself together, hoping that Connection to anchor their minds. She fails. I can imagine her thrushing and hurting about it. But millenia have passed, she's now detached, controls her feelings completely to achieve her goal of ending the war. When Navani first asks about the other Fused and she tells her she's her daughter, she says that coldly. But when she finally gives her release she unleashes her grief. She's tired, she just wants everything to end, so that she can die and rest. That's the motivation. The intentions are also clear: she wants to end the war once and for all and release the Fused (or, at least, herself and her daughter) to true death. She wants to end the war with a victory for the singers but she would take a victory for the humans because, as she says in the end, it's better than the war going on. She herself has lost the spark of invention and recognizes in Navani someone who has it, so she manipulates her to push her to work, with hints and prodding, subtle things. She's a master schemer and beats Navani at everything, that's why Navani's efforts seem childish, because she's a child when compared to Raboniel, who also has a deeper knowledge about everything, including spren and the Tower. For me, this is the best written plot in the book and Raboniel is the best written character (presented as a mad scientist, then seen as a fearsome schemer, then giving respect to Navani, you don't know if she's for real or another manipulation, at the end you see her pain and sacrifice). But I also love schemes and backstabbing Now, for the book in general, what I think its worst flaw is that it's predictable. We have several WOW moments and reveals and turning points, like Taravangian, Restares, Testament (at least for me), Ishar and Raboniel, of course, but the main plots go as most people thought: Kaladin overcomes depression and swears the 4th Ideal which is more or less what was expected, Shallan starts reintegrating personas, Adolin starts healing Maya and gets the honorspren to act...It's all fairly predictable.

Well, I didn't consider it because it's really faint, if you haven't read Mistborn + Secret History you probably won't know who they're talking about. Same with the dragon character, I've read everything plus a lot of WoB and speculative threads and I don't see the hint all that clear. So, in that respect, it can have spoilers from everything in the cosmere, we've got the Eyree mechanism here even! Anyway, I still recommend people to read everything else cosmere, including short stories (we even have mention of that "SHADOWS FOR SILENCE spoiler" ) to fully enjoy the SA.

In RoW we're presented with the names of several other Shards, casually mentioned. With those names (I won't mention them, in case it's considered spoiler) I think we fill the Passion cuadrant. Also, we have already some proposals for Unity and Change and I think there are also 2 couples: 2 positive and 2 negative Shards. For example, for those we know, Honor would be positive Unity and Dominion negative Unity, while Devotion would be positive Passion and Odium negative Passion. And, with those mentioned in RoW, we have the Shard list almost complete (I think we have 14 or 15 confirmed at least in name). More on that when both Dawnshard and RoW are free for discussion because, really, you must take both into account to advance further.

Hola Dasak, somos unos cuantos On the Ishar topic, it's really baffling, what's he trying to achieve? That is, it's obvious he wants to give spren Physical bodies but, what does he think that this will accomplish? Maybe he thinks that'll be good for them? Well, he's crazy, so, maybe something warped. Maybe really "there's always another secret". By the way, Stormlight Archive (SA) is very heavy on the cosmere, if you enjoyed it, you should really read the rest. By now, we've seen content from Elantris, Warbreaker and White Sands directly, and hints / easter eggs for all the other planets / series and some unpublished or reworked ones. Well, we've had several letters in the epigraphs with offworld characters, but I don't think those affect much the books, they're more hints on Hoid and his plan, so cosmere.

I included some spoilers, I think we're in the Spoiler section, but I warn just in case. Hi Ben: Let's see, I've seen some other similar reviews, very few, and I'm trying to understand them, but I can't really share them. For me, each Sanderson book gets better than the previous, probably because he's becoming a better writer, but I can see there are people that aren't enjoying the latest installments of SA. I think maybe your focus is wrong, maybe this series is not for you, or for you at this point in your life. See, I say this because this series is heavy, it's heavy on pages, yes! but also on characters and emotion. All the characters in the series (except maybe Mr. Adonis Adolin) have mental issues, the minimum of which is Navani's self deprecation, the Fused and all KR have all mental issues because that's the theme of the magic in this world, spren join damaged spirit webs and reinforce them. Also, Sanderson said this is the series which lays more heavily on the concept of the cosmere. In the first book it was in the background, but it's coming more to the front with every book. We now see why, in this book we get the reveal that Rayse wants an army to conquer the cosmere and Splinter all other Shards (or something like that). In the Dawnshard novella we get more heavily into the cosmere, even. And, finally, many people complain of one character or another. Well, it's obvious that we all have favorite characters and, when we don't get enough screen time of them, we feel disappointed. But that's not the writer's demerit, that's just a consequence of being a book full of interesting characters. My favorite character is Lift, which is a secondary character. I wished she got more time but, that's the way it is! The cosmere, the science of magic, the manipulations, all these things I loved, specially Raboniel's character, which is still ruthless and evil to our perception because she's the protagonists' enemy, but which is very interesting and has a lot of aspects. You may think that Navani makes childish decisions but really, I read them as Raboniel rigging the conditions so that Navani behaves as she wants to, and remember that she's 7000 years old and has lived through hundreds of wars, probably in a position of strategist and intrigue, learning about humans and how to manipulate them. In the end, she left Navani with two options: do as she wanted to or do nothing. People in power are not known for sitting and doing nothing. In OB I had a little more difficulty, specially with the Shadesmar trip (I don't really like travel books, specially sailing stories), but I really devoured this one. And OB has probably the most epic and spectacular moment (well, moment, it's 5 chapters long or so, but still), which maybe this book lacks. In turn, it has a lot of emotional moments: Maya in the trial, Shallan's reckoning (Shallan is my least favorite, but still it's good), Kaladin's uprising, Dalinar and Ishar, Eshonai's death and, my favorite, Raboniel and Navani's arc. Really, if I can say anything of this book is that I'd have more of the Lady of Wishes, the arc from Part One to the end leads you to every place with her, fear, awe, understanding, sadness... So, really, if you didn't like the book, don't brood on it but think, wasn't the book good enough or were your expectations too high? Because, really, it seems that every book has to raise the ante. For me, WoR felt like a bit of a down because WoK was so awesome and epic, got another epic and bigger ending in OB and this is the 4th in a 5 (10) series book, so it doesn't end in the peak, because it has to set the ground for the final mid series. Specially, that timeline of ten days makes this seem less like a cohessive story and more like a "Will Be Continued..." but, well, it's the 4th in 5, see how The Empire Strikes Back ends, it's essentially the same. Finally, I don't want to diminish the valor of your opinions, I respect that you and so many others didn't like the book, but I wanted to expose some of the reasons I love it so that you can see that there's nothing wrong with it or the writer or yourself, it's just that maybe this book isn't for you right now, I've read some books that I didn't like years ago but revisited them and loved them years after, and viceversa, maybe you haven't Connected with the writer's Intent right now, that doesn't mean that any of the three (writer, book, reader) have nothing wrong.

Hi, long time no write, although I've been coming here to read theories and WoB now and then. As is normal in this kind of speculative thread, VERY LIGHT SPOILERS FOR ALL OF THE COSMERE BOOKS. So, one thing I've been thinking about since Dawnshard is whether the DS are one way Commands or reversible Commands. I mean, ¿can CHANGE be used only to change things or can it be used to freeze something, thus forbiding it of changing? Same with UNITY, which seems to have stuck as another DS, ¿is the DS holder able to use it to un-unity? That is, Shatter, Splinter, Dissolve. If so, then this could have been the DS used in the Shattering of Adonalsium (if only one was used and not the full load of four). Another thing, then, more pertaining to your theory: ¿what happens to the Vessel when a Shard or DS is Splintered? We've seen what happened to A&L, Vessels can be killed, liberating the Shards. But, ¿what happens when the Shard is Splintered while the Holder is alive and well? Maybe the Vessel is still attached to the Shard and won't die, instead having their Spirit / Mind / Body fragmented with the Shard. So, it well could be that, by repairing the UNITE DS, the Vessel could be repaired as well. So, ¿Do we think Tanavast is still out there in pieces, or gone to the Beyond? ¿Have we seen Hoid regain hope that he'll be able to bring back his friend / lover / master / whatever? I've assumed, and seen a lot other people do, that he's trying to reform Adonalsium but, ¿what if he doesn't and just wants to bring someone back? Maybe he was depressed and moping himself through the floor for a couple of milennia, then he started seeing things that started to give him ideas. Finally, on the Gods, specially that True God Dalinar's looking for, ¿do you really think a DS or Shard Vessel would get this title? I don't know, but something in the wording of the story that Nikli tells about the DS and the Shattering suggests me that Adonalsium left the four DS deliberately, to allow mortal beings to experience the power of creation. You know, something like wanting to share that experience with ITs own creations. So, they wouldn't give automatically Ascencion (akin to Divinity) as holding a Shard would. In fact, Nikli is not in the slightest worried about the power that Rysn has now, because he knows she hasn't Ascended just by holding the DS, he thinks she can be killed just as easily as before. Of course, in Roshar there are a lot of religions and so-called gods: Heralds, Spren, Greatshells... So, maybe the true God may be even a Vessel. Well, just thoughts, I like this thread anyway

Not at all. You referenced Steelhunt saying that there is more about surges than what we know so, I, which am an spoiler hunter, got curious and knowingly looked for spoilers. The thing is not about spoilers, I love them and I read every advance BS gives. The thing is that the rules in this topic where set so that people like me, who want to read this material but is most certainly unable to grab a codde, won't get frustrated by being taunted in what is in there but out of reach. I think that's what is contained in your post. Again, I don't blame you, with many people with codes, with (I guess) juicy information in the secret place and so many theories around, it was just a matter of time that I would find out. Maybe I wrote a bit of a sour post because, understand, it is really frustrating to know there's something there you really want to get but can't. I apologize deeply for causing discomfort to you with my words. My honest intention was to warn about a taunting post about Steelhunt. It seems there was a hidden purpose, to vent my spleen (yeah, I read Iron Druid also...), and that was inappropiate. So, sorry. (/bow) EDIT: By the way, that was only the first post mentioning that in the thread, I just stopped there yesterdat. When I resumed it I realized the whole thread is full of tautings on Steelhunt. I think I'll keep away from the forums until I can read the excerpt...

Late. I was checking the forums after some months away and I found about the Steelhunt because someone commented regarding a theory that there is a lot of new information about surges in the Steelhunt excerpt, so I searched the forums and BS page and found about it, to my disappointment. Blissful ignorance, begone. The comment was this. So that you can hide the chunk about Steelhunt. Anyway, tomorrow I'll ask a friend who follows BS in twitter to get a code for me if he can, I'm not a twitter or facebook guy and he doesn't like spoilers (and he didn't even start reading WoK because he knows he can't stand to wait for the next book, you see...) but I hope it'll work somehow. Also, for the rest of us who will probably get no codes, I'm sure BS will release the information later on, once the Steelheart campaign is over, this is just a fun gymkana, not something to disappoints. Of course, he's already disappointing us by not releasing SA books 2 to 10

I see merit in the theory but it needs refining. As Meg says, it's true that the WoB on this is that the Aons are the Splinters. So, according to your theory, the Aons merged with something to become Seons. Maybe the same thing merged with Skai's Splinters to become the Skaze. Someone theorized that these would be the Lost Ones? in the Derethi religion. Regarding the sprens as a relief valve, I understand this as saying that sprens would naturally merge with the Splinters from Honor, thus resulting in Honorspren. Or something like that... If I remember correctly, BS said to the question "did sprens existed before Honor Splintering?" to "there were spren before, but they were different". Matching that to Dalinar's vision where Nohadon says that not all Nahel bonded sprens are as discerning as honorsprens, lead me to think that honorsprens were the only ones with Honor power in them before the Splintering, but that right now the Splintering caused a lot of Splinters to get loose and search for something to merge with. Instead of humans (or maybe, apart from humans) they found a lot of sprens available, so they took them. It's too late and I won't probably reconnect for a couple days, if proper quotes are needed I'll oblige in a couple days, sorry for the laziness...

Can't look for the sources with so little time but I think the first part was answered by BS. When asked about the way Vin felt Hoid as having "metal he shouldn't have", I think, he said that she sensed something weird due to the extra edge granted by her earring and that anyone could recognize the "waves" created by any magic, provided that they could study them (that is, that someone used magic from other shardworld in their range). The second part wasn't asked or answered, IIRiC, so it should be a good question. I would rephrase that. Instead of "gunpowder", use "technology, such us gunpowder, steam, clockwork...".