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Is this in the readings? I don't remember it, if you could quote a transcription I'd be thankful. I also think that the "unite them" means everyone, not the Alethi, but remember this is (at least) a 10 books series, divided in 2 series of 5, so BS is doing a slow build and is hinting things very slightly. Problem is, the darker he goes, the sharper we get, we are digging too much maybe in so few words. In short, we have too few information on it, unite... the Alethi? all sentient beings on Roshar? all the humans in the cosmere? :S

Yes, BS confirmed we haven't seen any Splinter on Scadrial, that's why I wondered what makes a Returned or a Seon (the only two confirmed Splinters) different from the mists or the pools. It seems that, rather than being Splinters of a Shard, they are manifestations of the aspects of a Shard (physical, cognitive, spiritual). I haven't got time to dig in and be accurate but, out of memory, I think the pool is Ruin's Cognitive aspect, and the mist is what remains of Preservation Cognitive, which Leras used to imprison Ruin's power.

I think the thing with the stick is the physical part of the magic, you need to place the forms and you need to do it physically, with any tool you can. Also, you need to connect physically, either directly or through a tool. Elantrians just have the glowing fingers as an extra tool for drawing. The same with having to touch the Aons to undo them, it's not enough to will it, you have to touch. Apart, I think you're right, with enough raw power you can overcame the physical part, but we don't know how much power you would need to do that... About having a crazy elantrian dispell Elantris... I suppose this is a matter of Investiture, you must be able to handle the Dor placed in the Aon to unravel it. You try to dispell Elantris, you probably get burnt out before you took away 0,1% of the power invested in the Aon. Same with the rest of Aons, there can be lesser Aons which anyone can dispell, and some so powerful that nobody can. I see it as the Ashe plates for light. You can draw an Ashe Aon in the air and invest it with the Dor but they made Ashe plates so that any Elantrian could invest or dispell them, without the need to draw them. Maybe they could power any correctly drawed Aon, even if it wasn't drawed by themselves. Or even if it was drawn by a non elantrian, although I see reasons that only Aons drawed by elantrians could be powered.

I haven't noticed, thank you for sharing. I've studied it a bit and the upper right one seems to me more like the sword is passing "through" the body of the levitating guy (monk?). Also, the one in the upper left would be (to me) more consisten with a Shardblade. We were discussing in another thread about the possibility of someone investing themselves (as with stormlight) so that a Shardblade couldn't cut them. You may be strong enough (with stormlight or a surge) to hold a sword swing like that but, unless you harden you skin, you'd be cut anyway. With a Shardblade, it doesn't need to be true if you have invested your hands with enough energy to make them impenetrable to a shardblade. OR... these two are surges we haven't seen yet, which is probably the most likely (well, apart from the levitation, that's for sure). they refer to different surges :upper right refers to the lashings we saw in the book, but the others don't, maybe the lower ones refer to lashings we haven't seen yet. What about the other two drawings? They're not obvious surges but see... Upper drawings: unarmed against armed. Lower drawings: armed combat, left blade vs blade and right blade vs spear. Maybe it refers to lighteyes / darkeyes, you know that lighteyes are the only ones allowed to use blades. Darkeyes use spears (or, of course, unarmed combat). I remember Dalinar saying that there are parts of the philosophic writings he follows (I don't if TWoK or another writings) were it's stated that darkeyes are better than lighteyes. I've always wondered why, since I read it. Not much speculation in my post, just ramblings...

Mmmmm. Lightflame wrote the OP, so this thread is automatically suspicious, but it may be serious so... Reading at this, I thought... HERALDS! I can't access my WoK ebook right now, could someone quote exactly? That's when it describes Damnation, hooks in the flesh, pain, but then, after some time, Heralds are again full in shape. So, I see here something of a parallelism, maybe it's too thin, but it's here. We still don't know the purpose of the Oathpact, so maybe it really wasn't intended as a defense against Voidbringers, but as an experiment or even a way to have the Ten Heralds to fight endlessly? Words on a page? So, it's confirmed, BS is Adonalsium! Well, now seriously, maybe in Yolen there was some magic that could turn the writing into flesh, and the original Hoid was one such magic user? So maybe this Hoid is not a real man, but a construct.

I think that's a question for the next assault on BS. I'm mostly sure he won't answer straight, of course

I just reread Elantris a month ago or so. I don't have the book so I can't quote but they learn in the library (or maybe from Galladon, I don't remember) that Elantrians can use any material to draw an Aon for AonDor. Thay can use their light fingers, they can use a stick, they can draw them on stone or with ink, it explicitly says they can draw them in dust and, after the Aon is erased from the dust, or the dust cleaned, the Aon will still be there, invisible, and working. And, of course, any non elantrian can draw aons, and they won't trigger any effect. Remember Raoden knew their aons, he had to write them a lot of times before being taken by the Shaod and nothing had ever happened. That means (I think), you have to be an elantrian to draw Aons for AonDor (meaning, you are connected to the Dor and AonDor by becoming an elantrian) and the physical manifestation of Aons is relevant only in the moment of the drawing, which is the moment they get the power. Once the Dor has powered the Aon, the physical manifestation is irrelevant, you can destroy an Aon carved in stone and it will keep working. But also, any elantrian can nullify a working Aon by touching it (and willing, I suppose), even if it's invisible now. So, clearly, the connection is spiritual, you need to be connected to get Aons to work, and you connect at the moment of the Shaod.

I think Sazed says that a Shard's body is the same as its power is because all the aspects of a Shard can be used as energy, maybe even transformed into another aspect to empower it. For example, Preservation used its Cognitive aspect (mind) to jail Ruin's Spiritual (not sure this is the correct one) aspect, cutting him from part of its power. Probably it used that also to create the loop which makes Ruin's body (I read it as its physical aspect) to be leaked into Atium, even after it is burnt (thus, returning it to the Spiritual Realm). Probably that's one reason TLR didn't want to finish with Atium economy but empower it, because he wanted Atium running, being constantly harvested and burnt, that's why they burn the Atium reserves in the end, so that Ruin can't get it. mmm, I guess a spoiler tag is not necessary at this time because the thread is full of them but this gets me to thinking... isn't there a spoiler box anywhere? I don't see a spoiler button as I had in other forums.

Good point, the spren being sentient might mean that its Shard is whole, and the sprens which seem erratic may be from the Splintered one. I think it fits.

Well, BS stated that Kaladin is on the way to be a Windrunner. If I recall it correctly, Windrunners are Protectors and Leaders. Kaladin needs people to protect and lead, and he got all that in Bridge 4, so it's clear that, at least, they helped in his KR initiation. Probably some of the people in Bridge 4 will become KR also, but I think there's more to this than simple following of a good leader's actions, it demands real devotion to the ideals. A boy could be awed by something his leader does and is incredible, but it takes another step to do it alone, when your leader is not there watching you, guiding. I think we will see some of them go into the path of the KR by committing to the ideals when they are alone and hopeless, when they know they aren't returning to Kaladin or their comrades and tell them "I did the right thing, like Kaladin showed us", but committing because it's just the right thing to do.

Well, it's not explicity said, as far as I know or was able to find out. But we have a couple quotes from BS (is it just me, or the Q&A with BS look like a fortress siege?). http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#59 http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=680#11 In another Q&A, he confirms that the Edgli flowers are related to Endowment, so that's probably the physical presence he is referring to. Just for info. So, it seems very likely that Endowment is alive and full (not forcefully splintered), so it's easy to believe that s/he self-splinters to endow the Divine Breath on people. Maybe s/he just splinters and send the splinter on itself to look for someone but, at least, Endowment is clearly watching his/her Returned, going to the extreme of talking to one of them (I would say that's Divine Intervention). Maybe s/he talks to them in other occasions, for example sending the visions, which we now know are true, based on what Lightsong saw about the war. So my guess is yes, Endowment oversees the process. If not, at least s/he oversees the Returned once they are set. EDIT: flowers were Edgli flowers.

Well, this is what this whole thread is about. A Divine Breath is the same as a normal Breath, it acts the same, only that is has a lot more power. Also, we don't know the process of transformation into a Returned, maybe the DB "looks for" someone suitable or whatever, we just know that they are Splinters and in some ways behave like normal Breath (being transfered, feeding a Returned). Same with Seons and Aons inside them. The Aons inside Seons have the same form as normal Aons and, according to the quote above where BS tells how the deleted scene was going to be (Ien healing Dilaf, and Ien is the Aon used for healing), it seems that they behave like normal Aons. So, maybe, why not?, sprens are Stormlight with intent. I think it could be. I think it could not be that, of course, but, why not?

I don't see it as a transformation but as a requisite, just as anyone not from Scadrial can't burn metals because it's not in their spiritweb, and people not from Nalthis can't Awaken, even if they are given Breath. (If someone needs quotes, I'll provide, but I think it's been repeated a lot of times recently). I was posting against what you said but while writing I think you may be right, this theory postulates that Splinters assume a form similar to the one of the magic system component (aons, breath), so if sprens are made out of Stormlight, it could be, yes.

I don't say they are, I say that they "bond" (they are hold) by humans. Returned are the bond of a Splinter (Divine Breath) and a human. So maybe Seons are the same, the bond of a Splinter and a human, just with Returned it's so easy to accept that because they look like humans do, and Seons look more like spirits or fabrications.

Since I saw that comment about shardblades and hemalurgy, I was convinced that shardblades linked to the person's spiritweb. But I also think that sprens do the same thing. Problem is, we don't know how "magic items" are in the Spirit. Do they have spiritwebs? If so, then maybe they create a bond between the person's spiritweb and the spiritweb of the object or spirit or whatever. If they don't have a spiritweb on their own, then I bet they "attach" to the person's spiritweb. So, maybe both shardblades and spren have spiritwebs, or none have or one has and the other one not. I hope it was confusing enough

On Nº 5, having the Splinters being Spirit alone, I strongly disagree with that. I think they have all 3 aspects, Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual. Let's see some examples of parts of a Shard. First, the confirmed: We know that Atium is Ruin's body (not Ati's body, but Ruin's). http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=949#4 Also, we know that the mists and the pools on Scadrial are not Splinters because, as we see in the quotes above, BS said we haven't met any in Scadrial. Second, unconfirmed, but I think it is commonly believed that the Dor is the power of a Shard (some think Devotion, others think both Devotion and Dominion). Although the Dor could be a Splinter, or be composed of them, I don't think it's something we have seen any reason to believe in. I think we have strong evidence that the Dor is the spiritual part of a Shard (its power). So, we have seen examples of the Physical aspect of a shard, the Cognitive aspect and the Spiritual aspect (probably), and none of them are Splinters (most probably). I think Splinters have the three aspects. They have power (Spirit), they have intent (Cognitive) and they manifest physically (Physical). Another thing is that the body, mind and soul of a Shard most probably dwell in the Spiritual Realm. In the quote above, BS said that the body of Ruin is leaking from the Spiritual. Also, when Ati and Leras died, both of them had bodies which suddenly appear. I think this strongly suggests that both the body of the Shard and the body of the Holder are "stored" in the Spiritual Realm, maybe not because it must be so (TLR and Vin both held the power but didn't go to the Spiritual Realm) but because that's better that way, the same as Sazed has done (I think). In short, I strongly believe that Splinters have the 3 aspects of a Shard, thus being a Shard's shard, but a complete one. On their power, probably it is different, major Splinters having more power and minor Splinters having less power, I don't think there's a standard Splinter measure. Hope it's clear and all quotes and links work. EDIT: I realized, they have power and also they can bond spiritually with humans (probably linking to their spiritweb). And, even if I disagree, +1 for the summarizing, by the way.

Just as Divine Breath is the Splinter, and the Returned is not the Splinter. Could it be that Seons are made of Splinters joining to human souls (or maybe animals...), just like Returned are made of Splinters joining human beings? We know Returned can change their physical form (and that Breath favores mimicking the human body, why Seons wouldn't fit the form (favoring Aons), even if they were human? So, going back to the topic in the OP, I agree that maybe there is something in the worlds that make the Splinters shape like the components of the magic do (Breath, Aons), although I'm not sure which kind of component this is. What are Aons and Breath to the magic systems? I'd focus on this tow because they are confirmed Splinters, we haven't seen any Splinter on Scadrial and we're not sure about sprens in WoK (although I agree that probably Honorspren are Honor Splinters).

There's something on it. Splinters are not just raw spiritual power. Maybe Splinters are made of the three aspects of a Shard, just in a tiny measurement? But we can't be sure, because if a Shard has a Cognitive Aspect, then what happens to the mind of the Holder? And if it has a Physical Aspect, what happens to the body of th Holder? Anyway, I think you're right, a Splinter must have some raw power and a part of the intent of the Shard, but it seems that they have not memories or thoughts of their own, so maybe they do have a Cognitive Aspect, and that's what holds the intent of the Shard. Only through linking with a sentient (animals or humans) they gain access to thoughts and sensations. Unlinking with people seems to unbond them of memory and thought and then they regain the memories by linking to another people (maybe through their spiritweb?). It makes me think of Divine Breath. It is a confirmed Splinter but it not only doesn't gain access to memories, but it makes the person bonded to them lose theirs. Like it has reglued together the spirit and mind of the person with the body, but the glue hasn't stuck too well. I've been about to erase this post a couple times but, as this is a highly conjectural thread, I'll leave it, maybe someone will brainstorm something useful on this thoughts...

I even started thinking some time ago that uniting Devotion and Dominion could lead to something like Love Shard, due to the component of Devotion and Dominion that Love has (we have selfless love but also selfish love), so I completely agree that it could be possible. Also, I think Love is a big theme in Elantris. I just reread it looking for cosmere references and noticed it, there is love for the family, love in couples, Hrathen is in love with Sarene, Dilaf fell in love with a woman, that love turning to hatred to Elantris because they couldn't save her... Apart from that, I've always thought, as you, that Korath and Dereth parted because they focused in every Shard. I even suspect that Hoid may have been Deseg... So, total agreement.

Maybe Rosh is not wording correctly? I don't remember exactly how it works, but I think you need focus, energy and something else. Maybe you refer to the energy? Because I believe Splinters are mainly raw energy (and possibly intent), so maybe the form that takes the energy that fuels the world magic is the form that the Splinters take into each world. By the way, perhaps we saw no Splinters on Scadrial but, remember, we have seen Atium (which is Ruin's Body) and the Pool (IIRC, Ruin's Energy, meaning Spirit). BS said we have seen no Splinters on Scadrial but we have seen chunks of a Shard body, Atium and Lerasium, what is the difference? Why they're not Splinters? I think it's an interesting question.

I meant that, by saying that sprens and seons / skaze are alike, he implicity confirmed that sprens are splinters (or, at least, one of their components is a splinter) because he just confirmed to Viper that aons in the seons are splinters. Hope it's clear now, I don't know why my wife always says she doesn't understand me. I also think the link is spiritual, I think that by linking to the spiritweb of one person, the splinter (seon, spren, mists...) gets access to the cognitive, which is an aspect it hadn't previously got, being purely spirit, maybe among other things. I can't find the quote but I remember BS saying that the bond improved the individual both ways, in the case of Kaladin - Syl, it gives Kaladin access to the powers and Syl gains memory and reasoning. May I ask for help with this quote?

Well, on Viper's thread New Hampshire Signing, BS acknowledges that aons inside the seons are Splinters (I suppose something similar happens with Skaze). In Nepene's post I quoted before, BS says "One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function." I read this as "sprens and Seons / Skaze are akin". So I hypothesize (is that even a word? :S ) that sprens are Splinters. As quoted just above, some sprens were on Roshar before Honor being splintered, some changed because of that and some new existed after it. I read this as: some spren are not from Honor (thus, they were not changed by Honor's splintering), Honor's spren were changed and more sprens were created after the splintering (because, we know a Shard can Splinter itself but, obviously, when it's splintered by Odium, more Splinters are created then). That's why I think spren are splinters, and I didn't say Honor's splinters, because I'm on the thought that sprens are from different Shards. On a side note, the relation sprens - seons / skaze (all start with s, as splinter does...) made me think that seons are conscious and smart but, when their masters are taken by the Shaod, they go wild, as if they lose their connection to the Cognitive Realm. This seems true also for sprens, they are conscious when they link with people and lose the Cognitive as they lose the link. Hope everything works, I had to edit the first post six times until I got it to quote the tex I wanted to and close the quote so I could write after it, and I hope the link is OK, Was it this hard before the update or is it just that I'm old and grumpy? Also, isn't there a preview post? Man, I need a course on modern forum posting...

Hi, first time poster, but I was an old fellow in TWG and I've been lurking since the creation of the 17th shard. I must be wrong because there are so many people here who will jump to any tiny bit of info found and chew it to the end but, based on the Q&A below... Quote Hasn't BS all but confirmed that spren are Splinters? Maybe he already did but, last time I checked, it was theory.

Hi all. I'm an old fellow from TWG forum and long time lurker in here. See you around.