Jn819

Okay, perhaps the idea has more merit than I thought. But I think it would need Stormlight either way, just less maybe.

Yeah it doesn't sound like we really disagree on anything, except I think Renarin might be able to learn normal Lightweaving but just hasn't had the right teacher/found the right focus. We do see some of Shallan's squires struggling with it. I think it's less a binary (altered Truthwatchers can't Lightweave and normal Truthwatchers can't see the future) but more of a strength thing (altered Truthwatchers struggle to produce illusions, normal Truthwatchers struggle to access even the Resonance of showing someone their perfected version). But I'm not confident on that, and he may well be incapable. Of course, I think Renarin's performance against the Thunderclast at the battle of Thaylen City was pretty awesome, but I'm not sure if that's "extraordinary" for a Radiant with Regrowth.

Sorry I'm just catching up! Szeth wondered where "Jasnah, the king's daughter" was after he saw "Dalinar Kholin--the king's own brother--who slumped drunken at a small table." Nah, I find it even easier because there's a search function and the table of contents has hyperlinks. Indoctrinated doesn't have to mean stupid. Not to bring the religious discussion back up, but did you grow up religious and then reject it or were you raised atheist? I grew up with a very devout Catholic father and found Szeth's indoctrination very relatable. I don't remember this and feel like I should. I assume by "tapping healing" it's a Scadrial story. Could you refresh my memory please? Actually, I think Wyndle mentions that he wasn't nearly as mindless as Syl and Pattern were. Something about "The transition to your realm wasn't easy, even with the precautions we took."

29 results for "shade" in RoW, only the one you mentioned means anything but color or shadow. 25 results in OB, none with this meaning. 39 results in WoR, pay dirt at the end of I-2 (Ym the Iriali cobbler Truthwatcher whom Nale kills): Late in Chapter 76: The Hidden Blade: 43 results in WoK, including page 72: Page 164, when Kaladin sees Gaz on his way to the Honor Chasm: Page 267, when Kal and Tien are hunting lurgs and he's ruminating on the hillside broken by a recent highstorm: This makes me wonder if the Radiants who participated in the Recreance left visible cognitive shadows when they died, or if knowledge of Threnody was relatively common before the Recreance and the sudden absence of the Radiants felt much like the jitteriness of walking past shades, or if the legends are more like the real world's stories of shades and ghosts. I'm leaning towards the last as the most likely.

No, Dalinar tried (and failed) to stop thinking about it, but he never believed any excuses. He drank so much because he hated himself because he blamed himself. Moash has convinced himself that it wasn't really his fault. Moash doesn't just have to learn a constructive way of handling his guilt, he has to recognize his guilt in the first place. The good news for him is that based on the end of RoW, if he's separated from Odium's influence that might happen. But I doubt it. Stories need contrast. Everyone on Dalinar's side gets redeemed; Moash needs to provide contrast by never seeking redemption himself.

Okay I guess as long as everyone knows what they stand for CS FE and PC are fine. Maybe Sazed should record that history like he made the Words of Founding. I know, but doesn't Sazed make it clear that as long as the Shards are united in him, the metals will generally be too? If someone managed to split Harmony back into Ruin and Preservation, couldn't Harmonium split back into Atium and Lerasium too? They may not be the shards themselves, but they are the "body" of the shards. Then again, Marsh has kept his hands on some Atium for the last 300 years, so I guess god metals aren't necessarily changed when their associated gods are, it's just that new possibilities arise with new Shards. Ok yeah, I guess based on what we know of the original Shattering of Adonalsium it would probably take Dawnshards. I'm not sure what it would mean if Harmony changed to Discord other than for his self-perception.

One doesn't have to be an artist to appreciate art. IDK, I think there might be some animals who could be soothed. Not ones who simply respond to visual stimuli as part of mating or eating. More like that article I linked about bears, where they just like to sit and look at sunsets and such. It's not part of any mating behavior or eating behavior. They just like the view. Seriously though, there are people who have made music specifically for cats and tamarin monkeys. What if you just have to adapt your allomantic pulses for the species in question?

I'm not saying BAM has already been freed, I'm saying I expect Kalak to convince Shallan and Adolin that it must be done.

Spoiler for OB:

I would say yes to the first based on the friendships thing. I believe at some point Allik explains in more detail that it makes it like you've lived in the country for a while, but he has an accent because he still knows he was born and raised in X place. That means it would let you speak or write in the local language (so long as you're the type to become literate in languages you speak; Lift wouldn't be able to write in any language no matter how much Connection she managed to tap). Given that Navani has trouble hearing the tones of the lights, I imagine a human visitor to Roshar who tapped Connection would be very unlikely to hear the Rhythms. It's possible that a compounder could, though, especially one who specifically reached out and Connected to a Listener, as Dalinar does to the Azish. I'm not sure if that's even possible to manipulate though; the medallions might specifically be made to Connect to a land, not a person. A normal duralumin Ferring probably could, but a medallion user probably not IMO. It seems to work a lot like soul stamps. Also, to clarify in response to "does it change your writing language too?" it does not keep you from speaking/writing in your own language, you just have to have the specific Intent to speak in the language you were raised in. This is confirmed by the last few demo chapters (so chapter 11 and 12 IIRC) of Secret Project Four. A single Malwish visiting the north could use a translation medallion and tell a bunch of other Malwish in the group what the northerners are saying, because they can understand northerner speech while speaking Malwish. What I'm curious about is under which circumstances a Malwish's medallion might allow them to understand High Imperial (Spook's eastern street slang) since it's treated something like Latin; most northerners can't understand it. Would a scholarly Malwish be able to understand it while a barely literate Malwish wouldn't? Edit: Ooh, what about technical languages? Could you store Connection to your field of expertise and then tap it for something else? Like say you're a scholar of chemistry, could you store that and then tap it as scholarship in mechanical engineering? That might make it even more useful in scholarly ways than F-Copper.

Bears seem to have somewhat of a sense of (visual) beauty. I wonder if that's enough. https://earthlymission.com/bears-have-sense-of-beauty-aesthetic-ability-admire-beautiful-vistas/

That's all really cool actually, I'm looking forward to the third era of Mistborn even more now! Side note, I think it would be cool if a Silverlight historian or something (re-)discovered (or brought back) a bunch of history from pre-Rashek times, and the in-universe dates started being given much like The Elder Scrolls. For example, say we learn that Alendi was born in 1E1458 (the 1458th year of the First Era, before Rashek changed the orbits). Vin was born around 2E980-2E990 (before Sazed returned the planet to its original orbit). Waxillium was born 3E299. I think the issues with Sazed and his shadow are building towards another significant shift for the whole planet, so maybe we'll even have 4E after someone else Ascends to Ruin or something (Harmonium suddenly splitting back into Lerasium and Atium would certainly be catastrophic for the southern continent even in Wax and Wayne's time, probably for the northerners too by the time the space age books take place).

Like it does for Inquisitors: you can see even things that don't actually have enough metal to Push on, including people. I think there are some animals (was it insects?) that can see in infrared and/or ultraviolet. That would be cool. Or a cat-eye spike. Dog-nose spike would also be cool (so long as you don't turn into those monsters in Wax and Wayne books). Eagle-eye spike would be very useful too. Also, is it sharks that can sense electricity? Would sonar spikes require recording whatever clicks the animal makes and playing it on repeat? I feel like that shouldn't work, but it would be kinda cool if it did. Especially in conjunction with F-Tin. Spike a Tineye flaring their metal, store senses really fast with a much higher limit when you tap. Of course, with any Hemalurgy, morality comes into question. For humans you could do it like an organ donor thing crossed with euthanasia, but of course animals couldn't give consent. Whether that matters or not is up to your moral code.

Could they? I thought they didn't really change how Feruchemy worked, just let more people access it basically. Doesn't Sazed say (well, think) at some point in the original trilogy that he couldn't fill metalminds while sleeping, except bronzeminds? P.S. Unrelated, but I got Lasik a couple years ago and definitely haven't regretted it, even though with how strong my prescription was it cost over $4k. (My eye doctor said I had 20/400 vision once. Without my glasses, the distance my eyes focused on was about where glasses sit.) Might be good for you too.

That's exactly the thing. Could he hypothetically be redeemed? Yes. Will he ever seek redemption? Almost definitely not.

As others have said (but I'd like to expand on a bit), it's probably relevant that Honor mentioned (in his vision of destroyed Kholinar IIRC) that he is not as good at seeing the future as Cultivation. Progression is the Surge that's probably closest to Cultivation, just as Adhesion is "Honor's truest surge." Odium seems to be better at seeing the future than either of them are. It stands to reason that what was once understood as "Voidbinders are the best prophets that we know of, but others can do it too" simplified to a vague sentiment that prophecy is of Voidbinding. My guess is that if (normal) Truthwatchers do have this ability, it's generally much more limited than Renarin's and limited to intentionally reading the future of someone they can directly touch, kind of like a palm reader in practice but more like burning Atium in its mechanism. It manifests more like the one time when Renarin actually does manage to Lightweave something other than a ball, when he touches Moash and creates an illusion of a perfected version of him.

I had forgotten that gem, that's a very good point. I guess it's still possible that it's referring to a separate push and the war involved a lot of back and forth, but you've convinced me that you're most likely right.

Thank you, I'm pretty new to the site (as you can see). That's what I was trying to get at. I think you have a point, but I'm not sure the insecurity is completely resolved. I think it's a lot like what he said about Kaladin during their first journey in Shadesmar actually: as long as there's a task for him to focus on, it's not an issue. But if he finished his task of helping Maya without becoming (her) Radiant in the process, I think he would largely be right back where he started. On the other hand, I think if helping Maya resulted in him becoming her Knight, he certainly wouldn't be too upset about it, and it might eliminate the last trace of that insecurity. Taravangian will definitely try to exploit that friction (if he knows about it and has the opportunity), yeah.

Thank you for clarifying. I haven't read the whole series in a couple of months, and I had forgotten some of these details. I do think the Sibling was getting paranoid largely because of the talk of imprisoning BAM, but the paranoia had to do with how at least one of the crystals mentioned that the tower was "changing" IIRC. I may have gotten confused on when it began its hibernation scam based on the fact that the Midnight Mother thought the Sibling was hibernating the whole time she was in the tower. I thought she might have heard of it through the grapevine of KR talking to the Parsh (perhaps as captives) prior to imprisonment of BAM. Still though, it's not clear to me how quickly Operation Capture BAM went from planning to execution. I guess centuries is unrealistic, but it certainly could have been more than days. More importantly, I feel like somewhere in a Jasnah/Shallan conversation (or maybe Shallan talking about Jasnah's thoughts to Pattern?) they talk about how Urithiru was already abandoned by the Recreance. I think that's what gave me the impression of years, not days. I guess Jasnah could've been wrong, of course.

The causal link between Recreance and False Desolation is that A: heralds weren't around (or even coherent enough) to guide the Knights B: Honor went raving mad and said they'd destroy the planet. I think Stormfather is who said that each generation of knights learned of humanity's origins individually, which to me means older ones didn't tell younger ones, they found out from Parsh only when at war. There was no significant war between Aharietiam and the False Desolation, so there was no real opportunity for the Recreance until then. "We have multiple events here. 1) the event at the Feverstone keep (happened as fighting with the Singers was still going on, and they were not ripped off their forms yet; 2. The Imprisonement of BAM 3. The Recreance proper." The indication I got was more that the Feverstone soldiers didn't know the Parsh were defeated yet and the Recreance happened within days of BAM getting captured. It is also possible that the strike team who captured BAM didn't succeed until after the Feverstone Recreance, but unlikely to me. Why? Dalinar describes feeling a great scream in the vision and the Blades and Plate fading, which to me indicates the Spren turning to Deadeyes. I think based on a lot of factors but particularly what Kalak said, they wouldn't have become Deadeyes until after BAM's capture "Besides he does clearly say that the enslavement was "absolutly" a factor in the decision, which is a bit of an argument for my case." No, it just means that the strike team who went after BAM (or at least those who decided to send it) did it knowing it would render all Parsh docile, ending their nations and any chance of further war, then provide a lot of free manual labor for rebuilding after the war. "Gavilar, who gets shunned from the oaths precisly because of his lack of moral values." No, the Stormfather was afraid of his plan, and if anything withdrew his bond as Gavilar died. If the morals were the only problem, the bond would have ended the first time Gavilar did anything the SF considered immoral. "I think it is the continous clash of Odium and Honors Surges that was feared by the Radiants, a perpetual Desolation, as envisioned by Gavilar in the prologue of SA 5 in order to train his "Radiants"." Dead on IMO. That's basically what Honor was raving about. After the capture of BAM though, I think it's more that they feared some Knights turning against each other or even to Odium's side without the Parsh to fight against. "If it was just the Surges, how would the enslavement of the Singers factor in the decision for the Recreance, as attested by your WoB?" I suspect it's more that they saw how it was going to play out. They saw that there would be little need for Knights Radiant without the Parsh fighting for Odium. This made it easier for them to abandon their oaths. "Given that each and every one of the KR made this decision does speak to a common, not an individual decision." A distinction without a difference. Yes, they discussed it and made the decision together, but it was unanimous (apart from the Skybreakers). However, actually doing it meant each Knight individually deciding to break their bonds/oaths. I think if even one of the Knights, say, hid and kept their bonds, their Spren would have told the non-bound Spren about how the discussion went. The modern Spren would know that the Deadeyes had chosen the breaking of bonds. "But would the Spren remember their past periods of bondage with their previous KR? Syl hardly remembers anything from her previous knights." Yes, they would have. Remember the Honorspren that Kaladin orders to try bonding with Rlain? He was available because his Knight had died, and it did nothing terrible to his memory. Syl was young and on her first Knight when he died unexpectedly, and it was so traumatic that she basically shut down completely and hibernated for millennia. It's implied that it was more common for Spren to be minimally impacted by the loss of their Knights (well, no more than a human losing their closest companion). Syl was just an extreme case. "Why was there all these millenia no Alethi Higprince or entrepeneur seeking riches beyond Alethkar in say for instance gigantic Chasmfiends, that stumbeled upon the Listeners living just at the border of Alethkar?" A: they were generally more interested in war and known spoils than vague rumors and hints B: the Chasmfiends were probably a rumor below even the level of Sasquatch. Are you willing to wander into the woods in the Pacific Northwest just to maybe find Sasquatch? That's not only on the border but technically within the border. It's the same kind of thing; that border of Alethkar was blurry because no one was really contesting it. It was just a broad area of uncultivated forest. I do think it odd that the locals who knew about Chasmfiends never mentioned the Listeners, but maybe they'd all grown up knowing about the Listeners as people and didn't think of them as anything special (perhaps because they'd never actually gotten close enough to notice their skin was different from a more common tribe) and therefore didn't mention them to outsiders. "Was there no group of slaves or peasents desperate enuogh trying to find same farmable land ?" Not in that area. There were better options closer to established trade routes. "You can travel through the wastelands to the Shattered Plains in wagons btw. as Shallan did." Once the supply chain has been in place for five years of war, yeah. "I think ist safe to assume she has ways of influencing events on Roshar beyond the Nightwatcher." Yes and no. She probably has some power similar to how Preservation could hear people's thoughts and Ruin could give them thoughts, but if she uses it, it will draw Odium's attention. "Perhaps she does have a secret society like Harmony does?" Recruitment would present too much of a risk of loss of secrecy. She's probably hesitant to even show herself to the Nightwatcher's supplicants. Keep in mind, people on Scadrial know about Harmony's secret society even though there is no recruitment because they're the Faceless Immortals. Cultivation doesn't even have any viable immortals to recruit. Probably the closest option is Vasher/Zahel, and he's trying to hide as much as she is (though in more of an "in plain sight" style). He doesn't seem to have any interest in basically any agenda at this point. "Honor was also based on Roshar just as Cultivation and he founded the Heralds and protected the KR to serve his interests." Honor was confronting Odium, not hiding from him. There probably were Dawnsingers in contact with Cultivation before the arrival of Odium and humans, but the Desolations probably wiped them out.

"happened only decades after the Recreance." I think it's not exactly clear. It's more like in the decades after the Recreance. It takes a while to round up all the now basically mindless Parshmen and enslave them. "which ended with expulsion of Radiants from Urithiru and closing Oathgates." I think it's made clear at some point that this occurred centuries before the Recreance, so probably not specifically because of the plan to capture BAM. It probably had more to do with the Sibling losing its rhythm, distrusting humans, and convincing them it was hibernating. "it was said either in WoK or WoR" It was when Shallan was in Sebarial's camp looking for Urithiru, so I'm pretty sure WoR.

As far as point three goes, chances are that there were separate nations of Parsh and humans. There would likely be some Parsh slaves just as there were human ones, but it would not have been easy or desirable to enslave all of them until after they basically lost their minds due to the captivity of BAM. For point four, what I have to say is that Dalinar did not use slaves the way Sadeas did. There were definitely slaves in Dalinar's camp and possibly even his army, he just didn't throw their lives away. Slavery's morality or lack thereof is murkier than you might think (for instance, it's made clear that some people become slaves voluntarily, much like indentured servitude IRL), and clearly what matters is how the knights and spren see morality. (I am against slavery myself, but the obligation to repay debts is a necessity in society and not all that different from this milder form of slavery/indentured servitude.)

That book has now come out and made it clear that Atium will not naturally be generated as long as Harmony exists. Also, the Pits of Hathsin have been visited by Wax with Tensoon (I think late in The Alloy of Law), and I think Tensoon might have confirmed they no longer grow Atium geodes. I do not think Mraize knows a method to create Atium from Harmonium, and even if he did likely couldn't get it to Urithiru. My best guess is that Mraize is the source of the Towerlight used in Navani's experiments since it was just the first payment of many, though how he managed to get it is anyone's guess. The Threnodite chain is also very likely to have come from him, but since Raboniel only mentions getting one, either the Ghostbloods hadn't needed to use the Oathgates again or that was another "gift" like captive Lift was.

I think you're very close, but not dead on. Consider RoW I-5. Lift probably asked to stay her mother's little girl forever (or at least, the conversation was long enough that Cultivation realized that's what she wanted), not understanding that to a mother, her daughter will always be her little girl, no matter how much she grows up. Cultivation Connected her more strongly to her own Cognitive aspect to achieve this, and that's why she's partly in the Cognitive Realm. I'm not sure if this is why she can metabolize food into Lifelight (since "mother's little girl" is alive, lively, and everything that draws Lifespren) or if that is something separate Cultivation did. Whichever it is though, Mraize is convinced it was intentional. RoW chapter 60

Yeah, more likely Odium will try to manipulate the contest such that Dalinar will violate the terms. Or maybe he'll make Dalinar an offer he can't refuse. Obviously Dalinar doesn't feel his own death, but say Odium manages to turn Adolin and/or Renarin and makes one of them his champion. Dalinar might be willing to trade Odium his freedom in exchange for his son's life, though his honor would pressure him not to.