Underwater_Worldhopper

There's a WoB rattling around that says it's purely physical: that's why Rashek snaps back to his actual age, which basically leaves him as a stain on Kredik Shaw's floor. The exact mechanics aren't explained, but it doesn't seem to be doing any actual time fiddling. It just takes your true age (which your spiritweb keeps track of) and then uses that as a snapshot to extrapolate what you would look like later in life. It's not looking into the future and then translating that onto you in the present, it's just temporarily making your body older to store away youthfulness. It's like F-Gold: Your regular health is diverted away into the Goldmind, so your body is put into artificial sickness. As Alder said, it's just a physical change based on you in the moment. If you store age normally, you become an old man. Later on, if your arm gets amputated and then you store youth, you become an old man sans an arm. Just because you eventually become an amputee doesn't mean your older version will reflect that while you grow old before that change occurs. The same applies backward, it uses you in the moment as a base and extrapolates what a younger version of you would look like.

Hmmmm. Let me see if I can make one of each. Aviar: A species of Aviar that, once bonded, lets you detect cognizant and/or Invested entities. This can be countered by Aviar like Kokerlii, who disguise mental activity. Aon: Tuo (there's an easter egg in the name ), darkness. When used on its own, it creates a bubble of impenetrable darkness that cannot be illuminated no matter how bright a light source is shined on/in it. Surge: Electromagnetism, also known as Excitation on Roshar, is the Surge that controls the Electromagnetic force and the Eleventh Surge. A Surgebinder who has access to this Surge can Invest an object with Stormlight to polarize the object to give it an inherent electric charge, called Charging, which can make it either attracted to or repelled by another Charged object, depending on what the Surgebinder Intended. The Surgebinder can also Electrify an object, making it discharge electricity in all directions immediately or make it electrocute the next person that touches it. The third and final ability of a Surgebinder with Excitation is to produce an electric current and transfer it through the air, water, or solid object which can be sent in a specific direction. Aether: Twilight Aether, which can be found as spores on Lumar or can be accessed through the Prime Twilight Aether. Adding water to a Twilight spore will cause it to grow into a purple glass orb the size of your fist, which can form a Luhel bond with the first person that touches it. Once bonded, in exchange for water drained from your body, it can change shape into whatever the bonder wishes. Twilight Glass is nearly as durable as steel but can change shape whenever the bonder wishes (so long as it is in contact), as well as maintain itself through the bond even when not in contact with the bonder. How many spores are hydrated at a single time dictates how big the Glass gets. At any point, the Glass may be Commanded to turn into purple Twilight Vapour, which can be controlled by the bonder through Verbal Commands, then reformed back into solid Glass. Twilight Aetherbound have an eye replaced by one made of Twilight Glass, through which the Prime Twilight Aether can see, although the Aetherbound themself cannot. They can, at will, cause a bud to grow and split from the Glass eye, which can then be grown and manipulated further into different objects. The Twilight Glass eye cannot be Commanded or controlled beyond producing the seeds for growing Glass. Spren: Boltspren, which are the Spren who grant access to Excitation, appear in Shadesmar as indistinct humanoid figures made entirely out of sparks, with large glowing ones for eyes. They appear in the Physical Realm as a line of sparks that are constantly moving and can twist into different Shapes. They cannot become invisible, and cannot fly, but can scale walls and ceilings effortlessly. Metals: Vanadium: Allomancy: External, Enhancement, Pulling. A Vanadium Misting, known colloquially as a Vastburster, can create an Enhancement bubble fifty feet wide and fifty feet tall at its epicenter. Whenever they burn Vanadium, their entire reserve is burned at once, no matter how much they had, as if they had been affected by Duralumin or Nicrosil. The Enhancement bubble formed never changes in shape or size, but how much Vanadium was present when burned determines how long the bubble lasts. When inside a bubble, no Vastburster can burn Vanadium, even if they refill their reserves. Meanwhile, any Allomancer within the bubble will have their Allomancy amplified, as if each burn or flare were assisted by Nicrosil/Duralumin, all while their metal reserves burn at a regular rate. The border of the Enhancement bubble renders all Allomancy going through it inert, which means that Coinshots and Lurchers cannot affect metal outside the bubble while they are inside and vice versa. This applies to Soothing, Rioting, Seeking, Speed and Slowness bubbles, and Electrum. Speed/Slowness bubbles will only affect the area they cover inside the enhancement bubble and not the area outside, Seekers cannot hear pulses from outside, Oracles cannot see Electrum Shadows that exit the Enhancement bubbles, etc. Leaving the Enhancement bubble will have no effect on the person who is leaving. However, if the Vastburster themself leaves, the bubble will burst. Vastbursters also have an innate sense of how much longer a bubble last, as well as how long a bubble made of a reserve currently in their stomach would last. A Vanadium Savant can make Enhancement bubbles last longer on less metal, while also gaining control over how much the powers of Allomancers within the bubble are magnified. They can also force the bubble to burst at any time, regardless of how much time it had left on its own. They cannot, however, isolate individuals within the bubble to benefit from the effect. They also cannot control the shape of the bubble. Wearing a significant amount of Aluminum can negate the effects of the bubble on an individual inside, though the amount required would also hamper any abilities they could try to use. Feruchemy will also be magnified within the bubble. Drawing enough speed from a Steelmind to move at 2x speed inside the bubble will result in moving at 6x speed, all while draining the metalmind as if only enough speed for 2x speed were being drawn. The enhanced Feruchemy cannot be stored in another Metalmind, and thus Compounding cannot be achieved through an Enhancement bubble. Not only Feruchemy, but most, if not all Invested Arts will become amplified and hyperefficient. Forgery, for example, can entertain wildly implausible alternate histories indefinitely within the bubble, even if not on Sel. A Soulbearer Ferring can store the passive boost granted by the bubble, negating its effects, then draw it later to magnify any other abilities that they have. The Soulbearing itself will not be magnified. Feruchemy: Spiritual Vanadium, when used as a Metalmind, stores Intent. While storing, the Ferring, known as a Finesser, is unable to perform any Invested Art or use and employ any Invested device or construct. When tapping, the Finesser is able to perform any Invested Art they have the ability to with a startling degree of innate skill and proficiency, and with specificity beyond any other practitioner. For example, a Finesser that is also a Coinshot can change the point on their body from which metal is pushed, and also control exactly which point of a metal object they wish to Push. Hemalurgy: Spiritual When used as a Hemalurgic Spike, Vanadium steals Intent. How this works is yet to be explored very well, but this is the current understanding of it according to the Arcanists. When spiking Intent out of someone, you steal their knowledge of Investiture, Invested Arts, and Invested devices. This does not work like information being plugged into your brain, but rather as instincts being inserted into your soul. Say you killed and stole the Intent of a certain Crasher Twinborn lawman. Once you receive the spike, you will Instinctively understand how to be a Crasher: Instinctive knowledge of exactly when to store or tap weight, how much and when and where to Push, all instinctively used by you in the moment to achieve your goal. All of this knowledge is inaccessible to you until you are actively using the powers, where this knowledge comes upon you more as if you're following muscle memory from years of built-up habits rather than through the conscious application of external knowledge. This includes things like Invested devices. For example, if you had a Vanadium spike from a Southern Scadrian, even if you had never seen a Medallion before, you would immediately know upon seeing one what it is, what it does, and how to use it (or even make it, if the person you spiked knew how and took an active part in the making of one). A pair of Vanadium spikes, when used on a Mistwraith, is called the Blessing of Instinct. Voluminite (85% Vanadium, 15% Iron): Allomancy: External, Enhancement, Pushing A Voluminite Misting, known colloquially as a Vastvoider, can create a Negation bubble fifty feet wide and fifty feet tall at its epicenter. Whenever they burn Voluminite, their entire reserve is burned at once, no matter how much they had, as if they had been affected by Duralumin or Nicrosil. The Negation bubble formed never changes in shape or size, but how much Voluminite was present when burned determines how long the bubble lasts. When inside a bubble, no Vastvoider can burn Voluminite, even if they refill their reserves. However, if a Vanadium Misting creates an Enhancement bubble, the two will perfectly align with each other and cancel out. Meanwhile, any Allomancer within the bubble will have their Allomancy negated, all while their metal reserves burn at a regular rate. This means that the metal will continue to burn normally, but no effect will be produced. The border of the Negation bubble renders all Allomancy going through it inert, which means that Coinshots and Lurchers cannot affect metal inside the bubble while they are outside. This applies to Soothing, Rioting, Seeking, Speed and Slowness bubbles, and Electrum. Speed/Slowness bubbles will only affect the area they cover outside the Negation bubble and not the area inside, Seekers cannot hear pulses from inside, Oracles cannot see Electrum Shadows that enter the Negation bubbles, etc. Entering or leaving the Negation bubble will wipe the Allomantic reserves of the person. A Metalmind that passes through the border will have its store of attribute erased. If the Vastvoider themself leaves, the bubble will burst. Vastvoiders also have an innate sense of how much longer a bubble last, as well as how long a bubble made of a reserve currently in their stomach would last. A Voluminite Savant can make Negation bubbles last longer on less metal, while also gaining control over how much the powers of Allomancers within the bubble are nullified. They may, for example, only weaken Allomancy, but not completely erase it. They can also force the bubble to burst at any time, regardless of how much time it had left on its own. They cannot, however, isolate individuals within the bubble to be affected. They also cannot control the shape of the bubble. Wearing a significant amount of Aluminum can negate the effects of the bubble on an individual inside, though the amount required would also hamper any abilities they could try to use. Feruchemy will also be negated within the bubble. Drawing enough speed from a Steelmind to move at 2x speed inside the bubble will result in no net gain in speed, while still draining the Steelmind. Not only Feruchemy, but most, if not all Invested Arts will become nullified within the bubble. Forgery, for example, will immediately fail once applied. Surgebinding will not be possible within the bubble, and leaving it will erase Stormlight from both the Radiant and their spheres. a Spren caught in a Negation bubble will be forced back into the Cognitive Realm until the Radiant leaves or the bubble bursts. Hemalurgically acquired powers will not work at all when inside a bubble; A Hemalurgist Coinshot, for example, would be unable to burn Steel at all, whereas a regular Coinshot could still burn Steel, just not gain any effect from it. A Soulbearer Ferring can store the negation caused by the bubble, allowing them to side-step its effects. When tapping, they can force Investiture to leave their body. This can be used to drive off invasive forms of Investiture, like Shades, which are forcibly suppressed in a Negation bubble, When tapping, their withering effect will be reversed and erased from the Soulbearer. Tapping can also negate Hemalurgy, which can be leveraged to avoid being Hemalurgically controlled through many spikes. Feruchemy: Spiritual Voluminite, when used as a Metalmind, stores your Spiritual Ideal. When storing, your ideal becomes far more subject to your Cognitive view of yourself, making it easier for you to manipulate your body through F-Gold or Stormlight, changing your body in what's basically a form of limited Shapeshifting. Alternatively, you could tap your Spiritual Ideal and then heal yourself back to what you truly, actually are. Hemalurgy: Spiritual When used as a spike, Voluminite steals someone's Spiritual Ideal. When the spike is inserted into the recipient, their body changes to become an amalgamation of you and that person, effectively changing your appearance into someone new who resembles you and the person whose Spiritual Ideal you stole. Combined with storing your own Spiritual Ideal, you could change entirely into the person, then switch back to yourself by tapping a lot of your Spiritual Ideal. When a pair of Voluminite spikes are used to bring a mistwraith to sentience, they are called the Blessing of Honesty. This gives the Kandra a true form that is an amalgamation of the two people killed to obtain the spikes. This form is truer than any other shape they can take, similar to how Dragons can shapeshift but have a single, 'true' draconic form. It has no other effects. And there we have it. Thoughts, or maybe suggestions?

We'll assume that it's what I interpreted it to mean (That A-Atium and F-Atium are close enough to regular Metallic Arts to be spiked using H-Cadmium), because that makes the most sense to me. That's possible, but that's straying into very improbable events. How often would the Inquisitors have an Atium Spike available from the offset to give to a new Inquisitor, be on their way to make a new Inquisitor, get in a fight, have the person they're fighting be Mistborn, have the Mistborn attempt to defeat them through Atium, then also have the Inquisitor not have Atium on/in them, decide it's worth using up the incredibly rare spike to win the fight, and have some way of getting enough Atium off the spike to ingest and burn it? Even after his release, they only had single spikes, which shouldn't have opened them up to his control anyway. Still, I get your point. Maybe the sheer amount of spikes present in an Inquisitor was enough to give him partial control, even then. Limited vs Specialized might be playing with semantics at this point, but I don't think you're portraying it right. Pure Atium gives you a perfect view of the SR. Atium-Electrum and regular Electrum work through Spiritual Connections, so compounding those abilities on top of each other through something external like Duralumin or Nicrosil can achieve the same effect, but they aren't the same. It's like hotwiring a car as opposed to starting it with a key. The two achieve the same effect, but through vastly different means, where one was made for the task and the other is just a hack taking advantage of the principles through which the mechanism works. I said it in my last post, and I'll say it again here: You have a point, that could totally be the case. We're given next to nothing about H-Atium, so we just don't know. However, the only thing that does touch upon H-Atium says it needs to be refined, which is the crux of my argument here. Until we're given more to confirm or deny whether the Atium used as spikes is Pure or not, it seems reasonable to me to assume it's the Pure version, as that is what the only clue we have about it says. It's a headcanon as of now, so it's acceptable to think either one is right for the time being.

I don't think the nature of it matters. If part of the Dawnshard was pulled into the PR and condensed, it would probably become a God metal with its own properties. What Alder is asking is whether it's possible to actually achieve the necessary requirements to form a God metal from a Dawnshard, but that's tangential. If it was pulled into the Physical Realm, we can be decently sure it would become a God metal. Can we actually do it? We don't yet know enough to be able to say, which is what Alder is getting at. It's like how we know Harmonium has a Hemalurgic property. It's a God Metal, so it has to have one, regardless of the fact that it would literally be impossible to figure out what it does or actually put it to use. We don't know enough about the Dawnshards to say if it would be possible to do what is required to make it a God Metal, so I'm not even gonna touch any of that. I do have another avenue for us to explore, however. The Aethers are Investiture that is independent of Adonalsium. They, in physical form, do not become metals. The closest thing to them is Roseite, which forms as a crystal, but beyond that, they become vines, air, or even just heat and light. They make it hard to say for certain that Dawnshard Metals would even be metals. The Dawnshards are related to Adonalsium in some form though, so far as we can tell, so it's likely they would become metal. One thing I want to know is, Could a Mistborn burn the Aethers? They're physical Investiture and kind of act like God metals. The Investiture in God metals is the source of the power when burning them, so could you achieve the same effect with Aethers?

Did you not just say that them being based off of regular base metals and Scadrian God metals could make them normal enough? Apologies if I misinterpreted what you meant, but I had said that they'd need Pure Atium spikes for A- and F-Atium, to which you said that their composition could make them normal enough. I assumed you meant that they would be able to be stolen through regular Hemalurgy, so H-Cadium could steal A-Atium because it acts like a temporal metal. Ah, nevermind me, I didn't think it through. You're right, they'd need Atium for A- and F-Atium. I think you could explain it away by just saying if they ever try to burn a spike, it would be one that isn't so unimaginably expensive, like A-Pewter or A-Tin. If you can only get enough F-Gold spikes for a small handful of Inquisitors to be able to have the ability, you wouldn't risk burning that one first just as an experiment, in case something goes horribly wrong. The same goes for Atium spikes. And WoB says that burning a spike for Allomancy would be possible but excruciating, and it would probably knock you out: So that would explain why they never discovered it, again if they even knew that the spikes were different from regular Atium, because they know what Atium does Allomantically, and they know what burning a spike does. I think it's more a plothole than anything else, so some handwaving may be required, but this should suffice. Vin's mother is a good point, but Gemmel and Zane he never really controls very specifically. I always attributed Marsh to the fact that he was near to Ruin's consciousness and that the Well was full and awaiting a Vessel, but in hindsight, it might not affect it that much. Do we know if that factor affects his control? I had meant that under the assumption that they wouldn't need Atium for any of their stolen abilities, but without the advent of Cadmium, they couldn't do that. In that case, Rashek couldn't be there for the creation of every Inquisitor. But as I said earlier, it depends on what the Inquisitors knew. Other than that, they're homicidal and excitable, the prospect of a new member added to their order would probably distract them from experiments. Depends. God metals and their alloys do one specific thing in Allomancy. They also have one specific use in Feruchemy. Extrapolating from that, they should have specific uses in Hemalurgy. The thing is, as you said earlier, metals can take more than one thing, such as ReLuur's spikes, which probably don't hold Physical Feruchemical powers. But since the soul is so complex, metals in Hemalurgy likely have subcategories that they steal from rather than a specific thing, and even those won't be very extensive, probably limited to 2 or 3 attributes. We only know about the singular attributes because the table is specifically about Inquisitors and not Hemalurgy in general. Like my example of H-Iron, it could steal something physical from you, but not something mental, because that's a different metal's subcategory. The only examples we have of something transcending those limits are Atium and Bavadinium, Atium because it's the God metal of Hemalurgy's parent Shard, and Bavadinium because of its Shard's self-empowering Intent. Atium shows you the Past and Future through the Spiritual Realm, but Atium-Electrum becomes specialized in that it lets you read Spiritual Connections going into the future for other people in a more limited way. Malatium does this too, it becomes specialized by letting you read someone else's Spiritual Connections reaching back into the past in a more limited way. One could be anomalous, but two are setting a trend, even if it's not a predictable pattern. It applies to Feruchemy as well, so it should apply to Hemalurgy too. That's why I say it could act in some other capacity, but so far, I dont really have any reason to think it should. It could, but until stronger evidence comes along, I'll assume it doesn't. It's easier to theorize if we assume a reasonable result rather than leaving it open to "it could be anything", because you can't use Anything to justify further extrapolation. Almost no evidence and no evidence at all have a big grey area in between that's fertile ground for speculation. I would like to point out that ReLuur's spikes might be imbued with Physical Feruchemy anyway, as an experiment by the Lord Ruler to see if Feruchemy could be returned to the Mistwraiths. Even if it doesn't grant the powers, there's really no reason to assume that a Blessing made of powers couldn't bring a Mistwraith to sentience, sans an extra boost from the Blessing. That's true, but the table that's specifically designed for creating an Inquisitor, and says that Atium spikes need to be refined. That strongly implies, if not outright confirms, that they would indeed be using Pure Atium spikes. Could be, but again, they specialize in Allomancy and Feruchemy. Lerasium grants all 16 Allomantic abilities, but then alloying it grants a specific one. You can specify even further by using God metals to make a Feruchemist, and likely specialize even that to create specific Ferrings. The God metals do set trends, even if they're not patterns based on the base metals.

Aw, that's nice of you! I'm a bit of a blitz when it comes to spoiler tags Cosmere Mechanics and TLM Spoilers: Also, just something I wanted to clarify because I'm not sure about it: Are the Selish Invested Arts location-dependent because they're drawing the Investiture through Connection to a specific area, and leaving it makes the Connection weak all the way to nonexistent depending on distance (Option 1), or is it because the Dor itself is keyed to the different locations and can only power the Invested Art of their given location, and thus trying to co-opt a different area's Dor will make the Invested Art weak all the way up to dysfunctional, again depending on the distance (Option 2)? This next bit is just examples of what I'm asking in case I'm unclear, so if you understood it the first time you can just skip over this: Footnote: All of this is independent of the need to be born in a specific area to be able to perform the local Invested Art.

We're on the Cosmere discussion forum, does it need to be spoiler tagged? Either way, Could you then make it work with any potent unkeyed Investiture, so long as you create an amplifier Aon based on the local geography?

I'm sure that has some fallacies in it too, but I don't see any, that's actually a very nice way of putting it!

If that's the case, they wouldn't need Atium spikes at all, and the risk of one of the Inquisitors burning it would be basically nonexistent since they'd only ever use it for a small handful of experiments to see what it steals, and then never do it again. I don't think Ruin could influence them beyond just whispering to them since he would still be trapped, but that's a valid argument, makes sense why you would consider Pure Atium a risk now. I imagine that Rashek would either have had the Atium refined separately and then had the Inquisitors just try it out with only the knowledge that it's a regular Atium spike, and they would have no reason to burn it. He could also just personally supervise them, he has to do something to keep himself busy, given that he can't even sleep. Maybe the Inquisitors just never thought to try it. It's unlikely but possible. Evidence seems to suggest that the spikes being used were Pure Atium spikes, and that Atium-Electrum would have a more specific thing that it steals. True, but they don't encroach on each other. I could see H-Iron stealing something like weight or durability, but not mental acuity, because that's Copper's thing. The only time we see the spikes' attributes overlap is with Bavadinium, which can apparently steal anything another spike can steal but also grant it to a Kandra, maybe as a side effect of the fact that it's 'Autonomous', which could make it circumvent certain Spiritual hurdles to give its recipient the power it grants, but Bavadinium is a pure God metal. Atium does something similar, where it can steal any power. So does Lerasium, which steals all possible attributes into a single spike (or possibly it can just steal any attribute but only one at a time). Atium-Electrum is an alloy, so it becomes specialized. It could work differently, but we don't have anything else to go off of, so this is how I believe it works. The "Grants Temporal Allomancy" thing could just be the Inquisitors assuming it would steal the only quadrant unaccounted for, and the Pure Atium spike reflected that Intent.

WASING HEARING THE WHERE WAS GOING, TINNEREYE GOING WAS WHERE THE HEARING WAS -Ketek what wasing the composing by the Hoppe' o' The Water, Toother of the Tinnereye Zealers. L̴̨̮̎Ȯ̶̝͔́,̵̯̼̈́͆ ̴̬̃A̴̙͎̽̑N̵̘̭͒D̷̤̓̐ ̴̧̝̚L̴̝͔̊E̵̮̠͋̐T̶͈̃ ̷̬͗Ȋ̵̙T̶͖̊̕ ̶̡͙̒̋B̶̰̺̊͒Ë̴̦́̎ ̷͙̉̂Ḵ̷͌̇N̵̾ͅO̵̬̹͐Ẁ̵̺̱̈́N̷̮̲͆ ̴̻͂̓T̴̺̙̚͝H̵͓͘A̷̪̟͝T̶͖͐̇ ̶̣̌̕T̸̛̬͆H̸̰̄͐Ë̷͍́ ̶̤̃͜W̷̨̬͊̅Ȯ̶̢̭̕R̵͈͓̈L̵̯͂D̶͉̯̍H̶͎̀̅O̷̗͗P̶̬̋P̷̙̐̇Ẹ̶̈̏R̴̲̯̚'̶̮͆S̶̪̽͘ ̸̥̻͋̇Ļ̷̱̕͝O̴͔̓Y̸͇̕͝Å̴̖̈́L̵̫͋T̴̖͑̓Ẏ̵͚ ̸͖̣̒T̴̯͉̅͂Ȍ̵̢̙͊ ̷̡̛͖̂Ṱ̸̔͝H̶̟͔̄͝Ȅ̷̢͓̀ ̵̞̭̎Ć̶͈̇U̷͉̙͑L̸͚̦͊͑T̵͓̣͌ ̷͍̪͊Ẇ̷̩̽A̷̰̯͑͐S̴͙̩̉ ̴̨̫͋̚N̷̡̞̈́E̶̼̝͛V̶̜̋̇E̷̹̠͊͌Ř̴͖͓ ̵̘̏̇Q̴̼̓Ü̶͉E̸̖̪͒͗S̸̢̽Ṫ̴̠͜I̸̧͉̾̉Ó̵̜̈N̶̺̯̚A̴̜̕B̷͇̺̀̈́Ļ̴̃̍Ê̷̘̈́

I dont think so; Kelsier got his hands on Malatium easily enough, and the Inquisitors would need Pure Atium to get A- and F-Atium, since those aren't any of the normal 16 powers. Why would giving the Inquisitors Pure Atium be a risk? I assume the Inquisitors wouldn't be doing the actual metallurgy themselves, so by the time they would get them, they'd already be spikes. Even if they filed some off and burned it, I doubt it would be very dangerous. It just gives you a vision of the Spiritual Realm. If the problem is that they would figure out the whole Ruin and Preservation thing, I still don't think that would be a problem. Elend knows about Ruin, is being directly fueled by Preservation, and he has a part to play in Preservation's plan. A random Inquisitor burning Pure Atium while Ruin was still Imprisoned and who has nothing to do with either of the Shards or the plan wouldn't parse all that from a glimpse. Besides, the Inquisitors would be loyal to the Lord Ruler, and if they figured out anything new, they would just tell him. If he was that worried about them figuring out what Pure Atium does, he also could have personally overseen the forging of the spikes to ensure that the Inquisitors don't try anything. I think the only Atium spikes they ever used would be Pure Atium spikes, the way Brandon talks about it in the WoB. The H-Atium-Electrum would steal something specific that wasn't Temporal Allomantic powers.

Is it not pure Atium that steals any power and not Atium-Electrum? Edit: I checked the Hemalurgy Table on The Coppermind, and it does indeed specify that the Atium must be refined. WoB So presumably, Pure Atium steals any power, and Atium-Electrum from Era 1 steals something specific.

Ḩ̵̏͋̆̏̈̾̈́͝Ȩ̴̡̧̡̯͖͉͇̹͍̝̙͈̩̘̈̌̒Ř̷͚̙͕̜͑͑̋͑̏̆̈́Ę̴̗͓̹͙̻͇̻̥̣̠̱̱̦̜̈́̎͛̐Ŝ̸̢̺̪̯͚̲̹̜̐̾̀̀̏̽̕ͅỸ̸̨͚̑̀̄̇̈͑̄͛̚͘ NOTHING BUT F-TIN DESERVES APPRECIATION. A THOUSAND MAGNIFIED SENSES, TIN BECOMES YOUR VASSAL. YOURS BECOMES TIN, SENSES MAGINFY THOUSANDS. -Ketek about the application of F-Tin, composed by The Underwater Worldhopper, Truthless of the F-Tin Cult. Never, so long as I have my F-Tin

That's actually a really well-deduced argument. this is why we need you on here, Alder We've been busy >:) SA

SA Spoilers I meant an actual Physical Aspect, that's on me for not making it clear enough. Having just any body isn't enough, I meant your actual actual Physical Aspect, not your Cognitive Aspect given physical form somehow. That's a good point, actually. For now, let's assume that he can hurt but not kill. The point was that practice doesn't make Feruchemy store any more efficiently, as an extra boost of power from Hemalurgy can nearly double Allomantic power yet barely make Feruchemy any better. From there we went onto the differences between how much of Vin's capabilities were raw power vs practiced skill, and from there to Vin vs Wax. That's what I meant, that the difference between Vin and Wax's abilities (and the nature of those abilities as power vs skill) was beside the point. Warbreaker Spoilers Well, Rashek was only a Sliver, which is someone whose soul has been expanded by holding a Shard, so Preservation's Investiture wouldn't have had a considerable effect on him, not to mention he held only a fraction of the power, and even that for only a short time. On the other hand, Kelsier is made of Preservation's Investiture. His propensity for violence or revolution wouldn't really make a difference, so long as he's made of Investiture that is diametrically opposed to any sort of violence. You do make a good point about the fact that he'd be affected by people's perception though. So either being made of Preservation's Investiture doesn't affect him at all (or not significantly enough to stop him), or it does and he just has some way of getting around it. Here's what it says: It's a bit longer than it needs to be, but I thought I'd include as much of the scene as is relevant. It says very clearly that some people have gotten powers through the spikes, but only for a little bit. That seems about right, good work! I'd have assumed all humans could, but you're right. The pulsing of the Well was one of the Rhythms of Scadrial, and we see that Seekers can hear those when normal people can't. But they're Connected to Scadrial, so they might need a Connection to Roshar before they can hear the Rhythms. Oh yeah. It seems reasonable at this point that he is either unaffected by Preservation's Intent, or he can hurt people but not kill them. Taking a while could make sense too, but maybe it's just not enough Investiture for the Intent to take over.

Oh, now that would be a good reveal. How would he get a Spren into a form that he could consume it though? Could a Returned consume a Spren through their bond? If that's the case, I could totally see him bonding one, maybe by trapping it in a Polestone first (using Honor's pure tone, given the reasons above. He'd have figured that out by now) and then consuming it to keep himself alive when his time of the week strikes. The only problem I'm seeing with this theory is that Spren may not count as Stormlight, given that Brandon specifically mentions it by name. Also, for clarification, I meant (and am assuming Quantus also meant) lesser Spren, not True, sapient Spren, although those could work too.

Distance breaks the bond, so for a Knight to leave, breaking the bond would always be necessary anyway. The Knight can leave. Note that I said "That has a physical form". Kelsier is only stapled to a body through Hemalurgy, and while the Heralds have a way of creating or acquiring bodies, that's a hack and isn't a true Connection to the Physical Realm. It's indirect, but you would be Connected to the world that the Shard is Invested in, and on Scadrial you would need to be directly Connected to the Shards. I get what you're saying though. Age and torture to that degree is supernatural, but I see where you're coming from. Psychology is my field of choice, and the scars left after a traumatic event can cause panic attacks, anti-social behavior, extreme stress and anxiety, and a whole host of other effects. It's more often a domino effect than just the consequences of that one event (or multiple if you're talking C-PTSD). The event may cause nightmares or panic attacks, which can in turn cause shock or dissociation, which can lead to anxiety and paranoia, and so on. Just that kind of vicious cycle, for thousands of years, well beyond what the human psyche is equipped for, on top of large populations on Roshar actively boxing them into certain personality traits through perception, as well as Roashar being pretty horrific about mental health seems to me enough to have pushed them into 'supernatural' insanity, but maybe I'm not giving that theory as much weight as it warrant, because it does make a little sense. We don't really see if Kelsier can physically hurt someone after he became a CS through Preservation's Investiture, but it isn't an unreasonable assumption to make. I agree, we're gonna have to just wait. My last post is about as comprehensive a collection as I can come up with the information we have so far. I think it has to be the same at the very least. And we do know what they manage to get the spikes to do, they can grant Metalborn powers for a few seconds. I suppose, but it's unlikely. That they do, but that wasn't what I was discussing.

Im not sure what exactly you're referencing in that WoB, but there are only 2 ways that we know of currently to acquire Feruchemy other than being born with it: One is Hemalurgy, where you kill a Feruchemist and steal one of their abilities. The other is undefined, but there is a way to become a Feruchemist using God metals.

Good point, but I think it would be a bit misleading if that were the case, even if it's technically possible. The Knight can, it's the Spren that cannot, or at least that's how I understand it. If the Knight themselves can't leave, then the bond must be holding them back. Other than Radiants, who have a bond that holds them back (if at all), I can't think of any other Investiture that has a physical form being tied to it's native system. Invested Arts are generally accessed through Connections to the Shard, though how the Connection forms vary from art to art. For Allomancy and Feruchemy, the Connection is inherited, though the Mists Connected people to Preservation at some points. On Sel, it's Connection to a given place that grants you access to its Invested Art. On Nalthis, apparently everyone is Connected to Endowment since all of their Spiritwebs are altered to allow a 'Breath' to detach from the rest of their soul. To access a magic system, you need to be Connected to that Shard. Over time, Connected people will procreate with other Connected people, and the Connections start compounding. The Spiritweb is called a spirit web because it's a 'web' of Connections, after all. Besides, the soul being comprised of a certain Investiture doesn't have an effect on the soul itself, it's ambient. That isn't necessarily them being affected by the Investiture though. Spren are affected by people's perceptions, and if Vasher is right, (and he technically kind of is) then CS are the same thing as Spren, so CS are affected by perception too. As for the Fused and the Heralds, they've died and been reborn over and over and over again for thousands of years, being tortured in between. The theory has merit, but you're vastly underplaying just how much thousands of years of death and rebirth would have caused those self-same effects anyway. Still, takes determination and grit to get to that point. Thanks! Hmmm. Good point. It is different from the rest of the Spiritweb. Hemalurgy causes Identity Contamination, after all. I imagine Identity works a bit like spiritual Antigens, which locks Investiture to certain Identities. As for how stitching someone else's soul onto yours and having it be functional, it isn't very realistic in terms of regular bodily transplants, but we can't expect the soul to be a direct parallel to the physical body. They just work differently. That's a good thing to bring up, I don't believe I've seen anyone else discuss that on the forum so far. So, this is the way I see it. SDNA is what the soul is made up of, the way the individual Connections come together. This includes things like your spiritual ideal and things like that. However, I don't think sDNA is for powers alone. We know that attributes exist in your body that aren't magical in nature that can be spiked out, like strength, cognitive ability, and emotional fortitude. So things like your spiritual ideal and other inherent properties are included within your sDNA. That means not exhibiting, say, Allomancy, doesn't necessarily prove that sDNA isn't the same thing as the Spiritweb. I wouldn't call them the same thing anyway, but they overlap, like the Double Helix shape of DNA, which I pointed out earlier. As for the Allomancy 'gene', I think when you're born it's either active or inactive. If it's active, you have the potential to become an Allomancer, should you Snap. If it's inactive, then that gene is vestigial. It could still be passed down, sure, but it means you yourself can never be an Allomancer. We see in TLM that you can actually excise this 'gene' off a regular Scadrian, and then use it to create Allomantic powers. That's a guess though, I don't think there's much information about how or why Allomancy can be present in your sDNA but not expressed, save for Snapping. Could be, but so far from what we've seen no amount of stored attribute, say health in a Goldmind, is any different from any other health in that Goldmind. It's interchangeable. The only one not like this is F-Tin (L̴̢͙̠̎̏̓͊̚O̴͉̱̖̍̏̈́̊N̷̙̬̯͒G̶̢̬͍̎̅̑̕̕ ̸̫͔̼̘̤̅͋͝L̷̮̚͝Į̵͎͕̜̋ͅV̶̠̖̳̲̫͐̈E̶̗̓̂ ̸̜̙̽̈́̕͜T̵̛̜̳̜̑Ḩ̴̠͔̑̏͘Ę̴̝̖͇̚ ̶͖̳̻̙̂̄̈̆̒F̴̦͉͗̂͠-̴̞̹͎͍̂̏͜͝T̶̛̰̪͑͌͊Ȋ̷͉͉͌͠N̵̹̣͈̱͑ ̶̛͕͎͇̯͎̃̂͌̽C̴̡̮̰̕̚͝Ǘ̸̫͈͍͑̿̀̈́L̷̖͖̽́͒͘Ṯ̸̰̂̈͆̕ ), F-Bendalloy and F-Copper, where there's a difference between stored F-Tin eyesight and stored F-Tin hearing, and F-Bendalloy calories vs F-Bendalloy fluid stores, but that's more because they're multiple powers wrapped into one metal. The only true example in Feruchemy where the attribute being stored is truly discrete is F-Copper, where memories are by nature different from one another. So like I said earlier, I think it's possible, Brandon just either didn't think of it initially and considers it over powered or has planned to do something with that and didn't want to give spoilers. In the end, it doesn't really matter. I could argue for why Wax being an A-Steel Savant would put him on Vin's level in terms of Pushing alone, but we're missing the point. The idea is that Vin's A-Bronze was massively augmented by her Spike, and while part of that could be her skill, I think it would not have been possible for her to do the things she does without it. However, her Steelpushing would be roughly equal to Wax's (although Wax's may be slightly weaker due to both Allomantic degradation and the fact that his status as a full-on Savant was revoked) given that Wax is well on his way to becoming a Savant. The second part of that WoB actually confirms that Vin's powers have been raised to the level of a Bronze Savant, again thanks to the spike. Also, T̶̘̞̖͇̰̦̩̬̯͖̳̑̅̏̾̅͑̂̌͗̿̈́̅̀͝͠Ĥ̷͍̯̜̙̩͔̟̬̥̫̺̙̖̥̠̗̺̙͇͆̅̅͒͋͋̃͐͛̾͐͘͜͝͝ͅË̴̼̘̝͓̮͙͇̖̀̇̇̅͐͂̔͜͝ ̴͙̗̘̻̪̮͔̮͙̜̙͓̺͇͖͎͙̼̼̤̈͐̔͗͛̄̉̓̀̑͝F̶̢̧̗̰̖̱̝̟͔̼̲̺͉̩̠̺̥̳́̆̈́͐̀̂̀̂͑̂̈́̚̕͝͝͠ͅ-̵̡̡̧̛̛̰̱̗͖̩̖̟̻͛͂̑̃̽̎̎̈́̒̋͊̓̈͑̔̍͌̀͛̒͌͛͜͜͝Ț̴̹̲͍̜̮̳̊̃͐͒́ͅĬ̸̲̦͙̞̟̗̦̜̬̣̜̜͈͓̰͉͚͂̆́̍ͅN̶͔̯͓͎͈̱̠̟͖̜̮͂͗̃̑̉̂̒͌͑͒͒̈́̃̄͌͐̃̽͜͠ ̸̻͔̣͈̭̈́̈́̿̃͑͂͒̅̓̋̀̌̑̅͗̄͛̈́̿͆̅͋̈́̀̕͝͝T̸̨̧̎̋̍̈̓̕̕ͅW̶̛̺̠͔̬̲̣̝͙̗͈̮̟̹̫̝̋͗̓͗̂͑̅͒́́̒̍̑̈́̈́́̄̓̐̚͜͠͝I̷̛̙͇̿͒͑̀̃̓̎͂̕̕̚L̵̡̢̧͉̲͚̱͎̘͓͖̺̞̻̞̏́͗̇̀̿̓̉͋̈́̀́̅̋̐͜I̷͉̫̓̽̔̓͊͛́͋̎G̴̨̛̗̳̻̥̬̗̬̦̱͖̀͛̿͐̆͌̏̃͒̀̀̓̓̋̇͂͐̿̏̚͜͠Ḫ̷͔͂͌̂̾̀̀̑͒͊̓̔̈́̑̅̚̕͝T̵̡͖̩̺̱̯̣̗͕͚̫̈́̑́͋̈̈́͌́̀͛̉̃̈́̒̈́̈́͐̿͌̀̅̚͝͠ ̴̛̥͚̙͔͕͊͋͛̃̊̿̇̈̈͐͊́̋̅̕͠ͅC̸̡̨̟̬̗̪̣̹̩̘̗͕͇̩̫̺̙͐̍́̊̄̿͗̓͐̐̄͑̇̽́͌̊͘̚̚͝͠O̸̻̤̩̬̜̣̩̗̦̫̞̅M̶̧̡̡̰̜̻̥̜̭̗͕̲̹̟̭̘̦̓̀̈́̕Ę̶͈͚̳̣̹̠̹̥̖̺̲̲͓̘͖͍̳̲͖͙̻̀̆̀̇̈̋̋̀̀̈́͑̋͒̋́̔̉̾͘͜͠ͅŞ̴̳̱̺̗̟͊͠ WIND WHISPERS, LIGHT BURNS, AGONY AWAITS. BEAR WITNESS, BEARING AWAITING AGONY, BURNING LIGHT, WHISPERING WINDS. -Ketek about a man not ready for the gifts of F-Tin, driven insane by its sheer power, composed by The Underwater Worldhopper, Truthless of the F-Tin Cult.

I suppose the Avatar could hijack the Shard if they were better aligned with it, but I'm assuming here that the Vessel agrees to whatever is going on for this scenario to work. You become Invested just by staying in the same place for long enough, I think, so trapping him in the system basically forced him to Invest it. I agree with what you're saying here. Well, Navani can hear the Tones and Anti-Tones without a problem, so I assume there's at least some that can be perceived by regular people. Worldhoppers have bodies and Connection to the Physical Realm, something which Kelsier has lost. He, like the Fused or the Heralds, is a CS, basically just pure Investiture, which is bound by Connection. You're not just 'on' the planet, I agree that wouldn't do anything. However, if you live there all your life, then have your children there, who live there all their life, then have their own children, rinse and repeat for thousands of years, all while individuals would form Connections to the resident Shard and become Invested by them, then passing those Connections on via sDNA, I think the souls would be affected, gaining a larger and larger portion defined by the resident Shard's Intent. I doubt the Intent would have any effects on the humans themselves though. Nightblood does seem to suggest that this sort of effect won't take over the entire soul though, and that some remnants of other Shards will always remain. Well, the planet you're from (and thereby what Shard your soul would be most affected by) doesn't seem to have any effect on what you're like as a person. In fact, the only time we've ever seen the type of Investiture affect someone's behaviour is through things like Spren, Seons, and other manifestations of Investiture. Not Cognitive Shadows though, which is intriguing, but those are affected by things like perception. That's so cool :0 That's not how I understand it, but you're the one getting a PhD, so I'll take your word for it Just the fact that it takes on solid form not make it matter? Yes, because the fragments of the soul that Hemalurgic spikes tear off grant the stolen power specifically, with no other effects whatsoever other than the natural side-effects of inserting something into your soul and the Identity contamination from the fact that the oul fragment is foreign to your own. the Spiritweb is to sDNA what the double helix is to DNA, simply the structure that contains it. Generally, the Spiritweb and the soul are the same thing, and so is sDNA, although when that's used we usually mean the components of the Spiritweb rather than the Spiritweb as a whole. Because you can get around the need for storing and just use it in the moment. Store strength from one arm and tap it into the other, and now you can double your strength without needing to store it before hand. Get practiced enough at switching which arm is hampered and which one is doubled and you could be really effective in combat. It would also let you compound your abilities way more, because instead of drawing a whole body's worth of attribute, you can tap just enough for your arms or something. If you can get around the need to be entirely weak, Feruchemy becomes way more dangerous. I personally love the idea, but that's just my guess for why Brandon answered it the way he did. There is a difference in power though. Wax was originally meant to be a Savant, and even though he isn't anymore, he'd still be very close to it. Becoming a Savant increases how much Investiture you can access per unit of metal burned. Vin never spent nearly that much time burning steel. And likewise, she doesn't burn Bronze all that often either, at least until book 2, where it's still sporadic outside of her patrolling. That WoB kills the theory, then. It specifically has to be Nicrosil Compounding, else it won't work. Also, DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF THE F-TIN CULT. F-TIN, SENSES HEIGHTENED, TAPPING AND STORING, UNBEATABLE, STORING AND TAPPING, HEIGHTENED SENSES, F-TIN. -Ketek of the Superiority of F-Tin, composed by The Underwater Worldhopper, Truthless of the F-Tin Cult.

That's a fair argument. I hadn't considered the need for conscious support from Ruin, but it makes sense. It could become the new Vessel, if it gained the majority of the Shard's Investiture, but I doubt it would become subsumed into the original Vessel. In that case, I think the Vessel would become an Avatar, still separate from the second entity and still Invested, but less so than the old Avatar/new Vessel. My question was more in terms of what would happen if they were equally or near-equally Invested though. That would be very confusing. Would it even be within the hearing range of a human? I don't know, I'd have thought that having generation after generation being born on a planet Invested by a specific Shard would eventually flush out their system with the Investiture of the Shard as they become increasingly Connected to it and the planet. Connection to a Shard is required for accessing a Magic system, after all. Not to mention that they would be procreating with each other, and just by random chance some people would end up with more Investiture aligned with the resident Shard, which, combined with the influence of the Shard's ambient Investiture being concentrated on that planet, would result in people whose souls are, if not completely made up of the Shard's Investiture, then at least the majority of the soul would be. For worlds with no Shards on them, I they would be made up of all sixteen in random concentrations, like First of the Sun. No? Energy is a quantitative property that can be transferred between matter, and it has different types and can be converted from one to another. It isn't made of particles or anything. Paradoxically though, matter and energy are one and the same, and can be converted from one into the other. Matter is atoms, which are in turn comprised of neutrons and protons, which are in turn made of quarks and fundamental particles, which are excitations (energized concentrations) in the fields that permeate the universe. It's complicated, but basically, in quantum mechanics, particles like Electrons have intrinsic charges, positive or negative, and they exist because they're concentrations in a given field. Think of it as expending energy to turn 0 into 1 and -1, which is matter and antimatter, and when they collide the part of them that has mass and acts like matter annihilates and turns back into pure energy. TL;DR: Matter is energy, and in the Cosmere, Matter is Energy, and both can also be Investiture. And because Energy isn't made of particles, Investiture isn't either, at least when it's not matter. We see some of this matter=Investiture=energy in Harmonium bombs. Harmonium is Investiture turned into matter, which when exposed to Bavadinium under specific circumstances turns part of the Harmonium into pure energy. We can do something like that in real life with Anti-matter, which we could hypothetically use to make a real-world parallel to Harmonium bombs, which would be even more devastating than nuclear bombs. The only problem is getting that much Anti-matter safely in one place long enough to use it as a bomb. Not really, we know specific parts of your sDNA directly code for specific powers. DNA indirectly dictates muscle structure in relation to your bones, which you can in turn used to do everything that comes under 'moving'. Somersaults are just a specific 'type' of movement, which also uses our sense of balance. sDNA, however, has a 1:1 relationship with the powers it grants, which we know because of Hemalurgy. DNA determines the structure of your body, and that determines how you can move, and you can move in a near-infinite amount of different ways. Feruchemy only allows for 16 specific attribute-Investiture conversions (not counting God metals because it's easier to use a small number, but it's the same rule). You can't convert anything else but those 16 specific things. So if you have a single metal and try to store whatever you can, your body only has certain avenues that it can go, so it'll end up trying to store the correct attribute corresponding to the metal. Feruchemy and sDNA aren't separated by either scale or nature. SDNA codes for the exact abilities directly, at least in Feruchemy and Allomancy. Doing a somersault requires precision, practice, and coordination. You can completely understand the theory and physics and biology of what's going on when someone does a somersault but not be able to do it yourself until you've practiced. Not the same for Feruchemy, where once you understand what is going on (in terms of what it means to store and tap) and have that basic Intent, you can then practice the art. F-Tin is like that because of the nature of the senses, in that they work differently from one another. The attribute of eyesight just isn't the same as the attribute of hearing, so the two must be stored separately. Same with F-Bendalloy, caloric energy and fluid intake are inherently different, so they need to be stored separately. And that's not to say that they can't be stored together, they can, and in the same Metalmind too. They just won't act as one store, kind of like how the attributes of two different Feruchemists act when in the same Metalmind. However, your idea of storing from one part of your body and tapping it into another simultaneously has merit. Someone has asked Brandon that before, and while he didn't dismiss it out of hand, he didn't confirm it was possible either, or at least that nobody was going to figure it out anytime soon. I think this is because it's possible, but it gets around the balance restriction on Feruchemy, and that bypasses one of Feruchemy's inherent limitations. Vin is certainly a powerful Allomancer, because she comes from a particularly pure Allomantic line and has been a Mistborn her entire life, subconsciously burning metals like Tin, Pewter, Zinc, and Brass, but for something like piercing Copperclouds and hearing the well that early on she would need the extra strength the earring provides. Her skill augments her ability, but she has to have that extra ability first. As for the Steel bubble, she never really had any pressures on her to experiment with those specific powers to discover something like that, it wouldn't be all that useful to her, she had only a small handful of years to use her powers fully, and with 8 different powers regularly available for her to use, she never paid that strong of attention to Steel alone anyway. Wax, however, was a Misting who needed to squeeze out as much use from his single ability as he could, he had decades of experience as a Coinshot, was far closer to a Steel Savant than Vin ever would have been, and actively would have needed the power to deflect bullets. No problem Shards can corrupt and coopt the Investiture of another Shard though. I only used the Divine Breath as an analog for what the Compounded Breath could become like, no Divine Breath is actually present. I was gunning for something that would end up looking exactly like what you describe 2 to be, a Breath with extra Preservation attached to it. It doesn't really matter if you can't Awaken with it, since my main objective with Compounded Breaths was to acheive Heightenings. So, a Shard could grant you equivalent or greater amounts of Investiture than the physical Investiture you have on hand, but it would vary highly depending on your Connection to the Shard? Hmmm, you make a good point. Ah, alright. makes sense. True, but we're trying to evaluate how well the charge would stick to the metal, and the only thing we have to compare with is Awakening. That's what I was thinking as well. Would a large enough portion of it being affected not have the intended result regardless? Cosmere Spoilers Warbreaker Spoilers Also, ALL HAIL F-TIN, THE GREATEST OF FERUCHEMICAL POWERS. F-TIN IS MAGNIFICENT, MOST AMAZING METAL, RESPLENDENT, METAL, AMAZING, MOST MAGNIFICENT IS F-TIN. -Ketek of the Glory of F-Tin, composed by The Underwater Worldhopper, Truthless of the F-Tin Cult.

Is the amount a Shard can directly provide less than what you get from physical Investiture? You're gonna have to cite a source for that one, I really don't think so. You are right about it being less efficient than regular because of the Hemalurgy (It might even limit the highest Oath you can swear, maybe capping you at about 3 or 4), so they'd use up more Investiture than another Surgebinder of their level to do the same things, but If you could use a Hemalurgically acquired Nahel Bond to get a direct supply of Investiture from Ruin, it would be very useful since you would bypass the need to get and then keep spheres of Light on you. Even if it's less efficient per unit than Light, which I do doubt, you could always just draw more Investiture and try to compromise. That would have a very hard cap on it, though. That's what I was trying to quantify. The WoB you linked had a chart attached to it that does a really good job of it. I agree, to an extent. I think if a sufficiently Invested Avatar fully Invested themselves into Scadrial, it could work. The Avatar would need to hold a significant portion of Autonomy's power though, if that's how it works. SA SA They both deal with putting a piece of someone's soul into an object, so I think it isn't too unreasonable to use one as a model for another. The charge would be bound to the spike quite strongly, but I think that increasing the volume of the Anti-tone past a certain point should get rid of even that. I know only Scadrians were created artificially, but wouldn't the humans on Shardworlds have their souls composed of their resident Shard's Investiture? You don't measure radioactive material in atoms. A single atom is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what you would have had at the start, which would be measured in terms of mass. You're right in that eventually every single atom will decay, but that takes way too long, so we usually just measure it up to a small decimal, then consider everything as completely decayed. The Cosmere has its own version of Newton's laws of physics, and one of them is mass=energy=Investiture. Investiture would be comprised of particles only when physically manifested as matter, so things like God metals, Perpendicularity liquid, or Lights. Otherwise, it probably acts like energy, something like temperature. A Hemalurgic charge would probably decay like something constantly getting colder, but never actually hitting absolute zero. A spike decaying would be like going from 0.1 to 0.01, then 0.001, 0.0001, 0.00001, and so on, always getting smaller but never running out. Cosmere Spoilers: Do we know Autonomy's color?? Some Intent will always be required, I just don't think you need to know the attribute you're storing. Somersaults aren't encoded. There's nothing in your genes that specifically code for the ability to do a somersault. That's more a result of different traits in your body converging to produce a single effect: Fine muscular motor control, plus an innate sense of balance. It's like comparing your body's ability to create protein to being able to cross your eyes. One is a direct result of DNA, whereas the other is just one of many things muscles allow you to do by literally doing their job: allowing you to move. Some people refine that ability enough for things like somersaults, sure, but DNA and performing somersaults are completely disconnected from each other by scale and nature, and the two have no direct causes or consequences relating to one another. It is, once more, a false dichotomy, or at the very least an appeal to the extreme. I do agree that Intent is absolutely required, just nothing so specific as the exact attribute. That's why you can't store while sleeping. As for practice, that doesn't factor into Feruchemy much. Augmenting an Allomantic ability with a spike makes it nearly twice as strong. Vin can pierce Copperclouds, hear the manifestations of Preservation and Ruin, and detect the pulsing of the Well long before any other seeker can. But augmenting Feruchemy with it, and you get barely a bit more of the attribute per unit stored. Same for Feruchemy diluting over time, in Era 2, 3 hundred years after the Catancendre, even though Feruchemy has been broken down into separate abilities, it's still barely less efficient than what someone like Sazed was capable of. Practice won't help you store attributes better. Also, you never answered a question I asked, one that I think is pretty interesting: I'd love to get your opinion on it. Same to you, @alder24

Was

He might have, he might not have. The more vague literary devices don't tend to get much attention outside of poetry.

So, we know what they are as attributes, we just don't know what they do when augmented the way they are in Feruchemy, and Brandon is tight-lipped about it to keep plenty of surprises for Era 3 I think they'll go beyond the scientific method. The scientific method is just how to carry out experiments in a fair and deliberate way, in Era 3 we'll be seeing the magical equivalents of computers, and hopefully even more.