Mistchemist16

We know koloss have 4 spikes adding strength. Counting for the base humans strength, that’s somewhere less than 5 times base strength, thanks to decay. Barring impact from the size, that’s enough to trade blows with double pewter or slightly above. And I could believe that Hemalurgy makes the build slightly deceptive. I do actually have to give credit where credit is due. We know that several Soothers can take a koloss and thus be equivalent to a Mistborn using duralumin. Elend doesn’t need duralumin, so that puts him as equal to several Soothers. Lerasium > Mistborn + Duralumin = X Soothers/Rioters > 1 Soother/Rioter Which should put him as way more than double, but we also don’t know how much each individual Soother counts for. And keep in mind that Elend might not have affected every soldier at once. He could leave the memory to bolster courage and keep walking. We know for a fact brass lasts longer than 10 minutes because pewter is much shorter and only lasts for that time. But I’d also love a recap of the onscreen numbers, just for confidence sake. I agree that it seems to be mostly power based, since Vin can do it without understanding what she does. At most, she also needed Marsh’s lesson to get just good enough at bronze. But that also makes things more confusing. The WoB implies that Elend didn’t know how but could learn to pierce. Not that he did have the ability and simply never showed it on screen <snip> Questioner So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds? Brandon Sanderson Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) If it is power based, then Elend should also pick it up easily because he is stronger then her. Realistically, I think there are three main explanations 1. Vin benefited from more training in bronze than Elend did. Whatever she taught in bronze was not equal to Marsh’s lessons. 2. Vin’s greater skill makes up the boost. 3. Elend does have the ability and we’ve just never seen it commented on. I assume it’s some version of #2. I don’t buy that lerasium has less raw power than a spiked Allomancer: it doesn’t seem right. But even then, lerasium could be less than x3 Allomantic strength.

That’s plausible, but I’m not entirely sure, due to the Vin/Elend bronze comparison. Vin with a spike should be less than twice as strong as normal bronze, thanks to decay. Yet, she can break copperclouds without any real training, while Elend would have to learn that. I assume Vin taught Elend enough about bronze that he should’ve had roughly that same level of experience. Even if only a session as long as Marsh gave her. So the question is how much Vin’s innate skill with Allomancy adds to what would otherwise be a bit less than x2 bronze. That’s the only way I could explain why she can automatically pierce copperclouds and he can’t. Questioner There is quantitative difference in Allomancy (e.g. Elend is stronger than Vin), there is skill difference (e.g. Breeze is better than Vin with zinc), but is there a qualitative difference too? Brandon Sanderson That’s the scale of what we call savant. Wax can do more with less. It’s not just skill, the burning for long, using for so long, will actually adapt your soul to the power. Questioner So can bronze savants pierce copperclouds? Brandon Sanderson Yes, a bronze savant should be able to pierce copperclouds. It depends on the strengths of the coppercloud and the strength of the savant, but yes. Questioner So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds? Brandon Sanderson Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) Either way, I’m not sure I see the significantly more part. Rashek was certainly strong, but I never got the impression Elend was anywhere close to him. But maybe that’s because Rashek had Savantism and Sliver effects. Or he used the Well to act as if he had consumed more than one lerasium bead. We don’t have enough data to make waterproof conclusions

Per WoB, we know Spook was not made into a lerasium level Mistborn. However, there should still be one area Spook is more powerful in. In both Hemalurgy and Lerasium, we know duplicating a power makes it stronger Shardlet If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite. Firefight Seattle UBooks signing (Jan. 6, 2015) So in theory, Spook should have extra powerful tin. One from his natural Tineye abilites and one from the Mistborn boost. Unless Harmony took away Spook’s original ability completely before making him Mistborn, but that seems unlikely. Not a big game changer. Tin isn’t like brass or bronze, where having a higher power level has an obvious benefit. But it would be a nice fun fact if Spook’s bloodline had a little stronger and longer Allomancy than it would otherwise. Though Era 2 is as low as Allomancy gets, so it maps the same either way. Either way, I think it’s a nice minor detail.

F-Brass. F-Brass stores heat to make you cold and gives you heat when tapped.

I said that Rashek used the Well to get Allomancy. If he counted as one of the nine, that means there were eight original Allomancers who got lerasium: ten beads total. If he didn’t count, there were nine kings and 11 beads. It’s technically possible that he used a lerasium bead to power up, but the Well could’ve done that too. Thus, if he did take an 11th bead, it probably would’ve been a metalmind. But we have no evidence of a foreign metal on his body, so that might just be ten known beads That’s actually a really good point. The question is “How many people Ascended before Rashek did?” One of those could’ve used the Well of Ascension knowledge to mix God Metals and make Feruchemists. But I don’t think you could figure out lerasium without that Shard knowledge, especially if you have to alloy God Metals. Even if you did think to eat it, you’d get Allomancy, which we know isn’t possible

We know two lerasium beads have been used in Era 1 itself. One went to Elend and the other to Hoid. In addition, the epigraph for HoA made reference to the original nine Allomancers having lerasium level power. Rashek makes things more complicated because we don’t know if he counts as one of the nine. If he does, then that’s one less lerasium bead, since he used the Well to become Mistborn I personally suspect Rashek did take a bead for himself. He may have used it to become stronger than a lerasium Mistborn, hence his absurd power level. But the more likely reason he would take one was to use as a metalmind. We don’t know exactly what F-lerasium does but it is a God Metal, so I imagine it’s not useless. That means we can account for a minimum of ten beads and a maximum of twelve. This could’ve been all the beads Leras created because he knew that was needed. But we do still have reason to believe there were 16. SageOfTheWise Is there a reason why Rashek left a nugget of Lerasium at the Well of Ascension? Brandon Sanderson He left several. It was, in his opinion, one of the best kept secrets and best protected locations in his empire. Phantine Were there originally 16 of them? Brandon Sanderson An excellent guess. /r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 11, 2015) Let’s assume there were 16 beads, created by Leras and some found by Rashek. There must be 4-6 beads unaccounted for. Here are the possibilites I can see 1. They were burned up by past Allomancers. Perhaps Rashek had experimented on them or tried Compounding. Perhaps he gave himself an extra power boost, though this is unlikely since the Well could give him basically anything 2. Rashek used them as metalminds. Very unlikely. If there was an unknown metal on his body, someone should’ve noticed. 3. They were used as Hemalurgic spikes, most likely on a Kandra. However, we haven’t heard of any special kandra in the First Generation. If such a Blessing did exist, it should’ve been fairly obvious 4. More worldhoppers took the beads. Secret History suggests most worldhoppers used Ruin’s perpendicularity, so only a select few could’ve taken the beads. If they had Fortune too, then they may not have taken every bead for the same reason that Hoid only took one 5. Rashek hid the beads somewhere else. The most interesting possibility is that he had four beads and put one each in the storage chambers. The problem is that someone should’ve noticed it during or immediately after the Catacendre, especially Harmony. It is also more likely that if such beads did exist, they were alloyed. That way, they would only create a Misting, which doesn’t contradict Era 2 having basically no Mistborn except Spook. 6. Rashek didn’t find all of the beads. Leras was the one who originally placed the beads. So if he put them in seperate places for any reason, Rashek may not have been able to find them all, especially if they were hidden in an area with regular metal Questioner Did the Lord Ruler create the lerasium that he gave to the ten foreign kings? Or where they put there by Leras-- Brandon Sanderson Oh, good question… No one's asked me that before, I don't believe. Did the Lord Ruler create the lerasium that he gave-- No, he found the lerasium. It was existent before his Ascension. Questioner Can I ask if it was placed there intentionally by Leras or did it sort of grow similar to how atium-- Brandon Sanderson The Lord Ruler-- It was not placed for him, he had to-- he had to get it. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) If there were 16 beads at all, then some combo of those six should be true. It is also possible that some or all of them are alloyed with other metals. But those six possibilities are the most plausible explanations for how there could be more lerasium that we haven’t seen yet. Let me know if there are any other possibilities I missed. Thanks for reading!

To be fair, most steel Compounders don’t even need to operate at that level. In WoA, Elend tries fighting a Thug and the speed difference leaves Elend’s movements looking sluggish. Just tap x5 speed and even Thugs have that problem. They also don’t need to literaly dodge bullets every time. They just need to be fast enough to avoid an enemy aiming at them. Of course, that’s not the most fun part of Steel Compounding. I’d love to see bursts of moving faster than they eye can see, like an anime character. I’d love to see bullet dodging and maybe even some Bands level tricks. But realistically, even a Steel Compounder can’t keep crazy speeds forever nor do they particularly need to if they can get something more like a pewter speed advantage. Thankfully, their metal is common and so they can load up even easier than Miles.

You are correct. And to be honest, I had mostly been on the side that Blessing of Potency was just strength similar to pewter. I just wanted to cover my bases in case I misrembered part of that comparison Also, love these examples! I think I have part of a theory for why the Blessing of Potency might affect speed and endurance. Basically, Hemalurgic iron would still function kinda like A-Pewter. You plug the body into a source of extra energy it can use to do more stuff. And the reason that the endurance isn’t equal to even regular pewter burning is because of Hemalurgic decay. In other words, the Blessing of Potency is what a person would get if they had pewter granted by Hemalurgy, like Spook did. 1.75 times average human strength instead of 2. The other thing is that if there is some trickle in strength granting, it might only be to things boosted by muscles being better, like leg movement. So H-Iron doesn’t give you balance, poison resistance, healing, or temperature resistance. Though I’m not sure if that explains TenSoon having more endurance…

I fully agree with the ettmetal point. Whetehr medallions or another device, ettmetal is probably a major component in all Scadrian fabrials. So it really comes down to what Harmony decides. If he thinks it’s a way to help people, then he could make a lot at relatively little cost. But if he’s slipped into Discord, there’s no telling what he’ll do. I also touched on medallion tech because it could give A-Bronze to those who don’t have it. I imagine the inner workings of the fabrial would be different from the medallion, but the principles of those medallions could play a part I do think I misinterpreted bronze a bit simply because it’s a mental metal. Most transmissions would probably still be in Morse code: I doubt you could get bronze pulses that much more specific. You could still write down the Morse code with no possibility of overhead, which is still a bit niche. As for Connection, I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily impossible to use telepathy with Connection. At the very least, we know there’s some sort of mental conversion yo understand language.

I think it would still be more practical to use cellphones Earth style, especially if Allomantic tech costs more to make. But I do thinks there is a legitimate use for those principles. You could make fabrials that send and internet bronze signals. This could be nice for Seekers, who can use it as a telepathic phone. Alternatively, it would be a nice curiosity for the wealthy, since they could afford versions that have unsealed A-Bronze. But the other danger with Seeker phones is that Smokers can storm with it by burning copper. Probably wanna have a mundane phone as a backup. There are probably also ways to hack Connection via F-Duralumin. That would be even more efficient and nice for Duralumin Ferrings for similar reasons as Seekers with bronze phones.

There are a few perks for kandras. They are immortal, can heal wounds (though less for poison/disease), muscle boosts, shape shifting (including to exotic bone arrangements) and don’t need to refuel by getting new metals. All of which can be done by any Kandra. I do believe that the Blessing of Potency only grants the strength boost from pewter, not balance and stuff. But maybe I’m biased because koloss. It does matter because pewter is among the best metals. But if you’re in the Cosmere, you can also be mind controlled by Ruin/Harmony and possibly Mistborn post Catacendre if you don’t have the Blessing of Stability I’ve flip flopped a bit on whether Feruchemist storing utterly sucks, especially in daily life. It was closer than I thought. All of the mental metals are good candidates plus F-Iron doesn’t really have drawbacks for storing. I also like F-Duralumin and F-Chromium. But I don’t really like any of the hybrid metals in Feruchemy. Even F-Gold may be less useful in daily life because you have to be sick and your average wounds/diseases could be fixed easier with A-Pewter. Meanwhile, A-Gold makes a good curiosity if nothing else. It may even be good for self reflection, like Miles does. Ultimately, I went for Mistborn, especially on Scadrial. True, Feruchemists do get plenty of more useful abilities and can put them on higher burn. But they also need to spend hours of feeling sucky and if they misjudge when to use their powers, they don’t get those back for a while. Mistborn have more freedom to spam their powers without really thinking about it. Not free, but far less cost. And A-Pewter is just so good for everything. But it was a difficult choice. I fully respect choosing Feruchemy, since you really can do better than a Mistborn if you have time and are willing to store.

I’ve touched on Era 1 Atium in past would you rathers, but was mainly focused on lerasium them. So here’s an exclusive Atium would you rather In both options, you have a lifetime supply of Era 1 Atium. Lifetime means exactly what it says: as long as you shall live Option 1: You are an Atium Misting with a lifetime supply of Atium Option 2: You are an Atium Compounder, but you can only burn Atium to Compound, not for future sight. Effectively an Atium Ferring who can draw Compounded amounts of youth I also have two versions of the question. One is that you’re living on Scadrial. One is living your life on Earth (w/Atium) And there it is. Future sight vs eternal youth. Which will you pick?

What exactly do you mean by “Allomantic granted attributes”? Are you specifically referring to the temporary boost gained from the relevant powers, like spiking strength from a Pewterarm burning pewter? You could probably do that with a spike, though you may or may not need further hacking. But I believe kandra Blessings are just Hemalurgic spikes of the appropriate types inserted into bind points with proper Intent. The part I think is key to understanding Hemalurgy is that everything stolen is somewhat permanent. Either an Invested Art like Allomancy and Feruchemy or a core attribute. They are all attached to one’s spiritweb. So you might need to rewire Allomantically granted abilites so that they keep refilling when spiked. I reccomend using F-Tin for senses and F-Pewter for strength As for the mental attributes, the closest things we see are the mental Feruchemical metals + electrum. Allomancy doesn’t have them because it has the external emotion affecting metals (zinc, brass) and the internal metals related to sensing Investuture (bronze copper). Stablility and Presence do fit in a more restorative way. They are mental attributes stored by zinc and copper, which are also taken from a person directly. I do adore the groupings of the Allomantic metals, even if there are a few bugs (F-Brass and some Atium stuff)

We haven’t seen an official case of Tin Hemalurgy used for Allomantic sense, so it’s hard to say what applies. I think the subtle difference between Electrum as a gateway to Preservation vs actually burning the substance Atium is made of would cause them to differ in Hemalurgy (assuming chromium does steal Fortune at all). We know the Blessings of Potency grant unlimited pewter strength. If Allomancy creates a conduit to Preservation as long as the metal is burning, I think Hemlaurgy is similar to a degree. However, Hemalurgy usually steals permanent traits. For electrum, I see two outcomes, barring further hacking 1. The spike “codes” the abnormal ability on your spiritweb and you can use it infinitely like the kandra blessings. Which is far from the most broken thing if we’re talking electrum 2. Using the sense burns through the spike’s charge until it runs out, likely for no longer than you could burn the metal Atium is probably a no go for Hemalurgy since you’re not really using that conduit in the same way: you draw power from the substance itself. More importantly, infinite Atium via one spike is definitely not happening. I’d say #2 always applies for Atium, even if #1 works for electrum As for Feruchemy, we know Chromium stores Fortune. So if Fortune does mean Spiritual Realm awareness, then storing and Compounding should work for both types. Hemalurgy may also use Fortune since the systems are related, but they do run by separate mechanics.

When I was thinking about the question, I didn’t want the 16 beads to be the same size as the one lerasium bead because the 16 beads could do the same thing as the one plus more versatility. But one thing you could do is take the lerasium from aluminums bead and use it for something more worthwhile. I didint know the alloy math but I had imagine it as an option for giving other people Allomancy or becoming a weaker overall Mistborn who would be better at the useful powers. But I can see how that could be easily misinterpreted.

If they are the effects of Fortune, you CAN steal them, just not with Tin. You’d need Chromium. It also depends on whether you view Fortune as just a misleading name for one’s awareness of the Spiritual Ream and if electrum just makes you more sensible in that vein. I’d guess it does. But in that case, it means all steelsight and bronze shenanigans use F-Tin and H-Tin, while time shadows use the chromium versions.

Meta aside, is there any reason it would be hard for a Shard to fuel someone? Czanos Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (minus atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts? Brandon Sanderson Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the Metallic Arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) Brandon says that it “required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.” I think it’s something like what happens with Atium. The power will eventually return to the Shard after being used, but they may not get it back for a bit, though Ruin probably would’ve gotten his Atium power back way sooner if Kelsier hadn’t destroyed the Pits. At least, my impression was that Shards could recycle their power near instantly, but it may take more time to recycle if someone else used it.

I mean, Nalthis really awards making mechs since Breaths work by human shape. Use a Breath powered exoskeleton covered in metalminds and perhaps some Roshar fabrials or a Taldain sand blaster. Maybe the real twist is that era 4 is a mech anime. In all seriousness, what are the best attriubtes to tap in a vehicle/mech? Speed is the only one that doesn’t seem worthwhile unless there’s a way to transfer that to the mech. Zinc, bronze and chromium are all good candidates. You could probably use copper for the user’s manual. Bass, cadmium, and bendalloy make nice life support. You can also just go full anime and add electrum determination.

I can think of two other shenanigans to try to tap metalminds bigger than you. 1. Make vehicles from Metallic Arts grade metals and you can travel. You may miss some attributes, such as F-Steel. But gold, zinc, and chromium are all good choices while driving 2. Make a long cable connected to a hunk of metal. You can probably build them from seperate shipments of metal as long as you identify the whole project as working together. The idea is that if you have a metalmind shape like a pole, you could stire from one end and tap from the other. Basically an extension cable for Fullborn. If you want a lower tech level, armor is a good investment. I favor chainmail so you can move around easier, but plate armor would probably store even more.

It’s also worth noting that unsealed metalminds, which use nicrosil principles, can only store 3 powers max. I’ve had my own theories about how the medallions work, but if we assume that a nicrosil mind is similarly limited to three abilites, that could mean 10-11 nicrosil minds. So that would make each individual metalmind 1/31 or 1/32 of the overall Bands. But we do know medallions are more restrictive, so maybe that means they store less powers Calderis Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? Brandon Sanderson Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018) It’s also worth noting that it is possible that some metals are more represented than others. At the very least, it would be kinda weird to spend space to make an equal number or aluminumminds. Like how game devs don’t code texture below the tiles you walk on. Aluminum just isn’t that useful. My theories on the medallions:

Is there evidence or WoB for that? I thought you had to actually use the Well’s power like Rashek did: simply taking it and surrendering it wouldn’t be enough. And all of the know Preservation slivers (Leras, Rashek, Kelsier, Vin), Rashek is the only one who didn’t hold Preservation in any way besides the Well (not counting lerasium) Interesting. That also implies that if you want to get the most power from your Shard is to load up on Blessings of Presence to get more power.

We know Slivers can choose to stay Cognitive Shadows for however long they want instead of going to the Beyond. But would this apply to Vin and Ati after they collided Shards? Before Secret History, I thought that their minds had automatically gone to the Beyond after the collision. But Secret History shows this didn’t happen and based on what we know of Slivers, they should retain their powers post collision This also creates another question. Let’s say no one besides Vin and Ati were around Preservation and Ruin post collision. Could they just run over to their Shards and get back in the driver’s seat? If they did, would they be able to replace their missing bodies? Would they be even weaker than other Shards by being bodiless Vessels? And for that matter, if two Shards are of perfectly equal power, can a Vessel with more mass or whatever equivalent in spirt and mind gain an advantage over the other? Kinda like how two people burning pewter cancel out? I’d think that even if you could convert mass, Shards require more to shift their relative power levels. Like having two lakes and saying that adding a cup of water to one makes it bigger.

Yeah, that makes sense. It also makes Ruin’s earring play even more clever. Even if Vin did lose her earring in unexpected times like that, she could easily give up the Mists once the threat was defeated and put the earring back on, becoming a good little puppet again. A sort of safety net for Ruin. And the fact that the earring is so mundane made it easy to ensure Vin would always put it back on. In fact, the only time the earring itself is openly attacked is when Vin tries to use the Well. In every other case, there’s so much going on that Ruin could make sure she was paying attention to the mysterious Mists or even just ambient stress rather than a simple earring, which she would be inclined to do anyway. Without a reason to suspect it, she would need multiple instances of taking the Mist sans earring to connect the dots, which is effectively impossible.

I also have a question of the sort, since I couldn’t quite figure this out from HoA. The one other time Vin uses the Mists but doesn’t Ascend is in Fadrex City against Marsh. But if I remember correctly, Leras had already died by this point. Kelsier was holding Preservation and waiting for the first chance to give it to Vin. Am I misrembering something about this scene? If not, why didn’t Vin keep the Mists and Ascend like she does in the rematch with Marsh? Was there a reason Kelsier couldn’t give her all of Preservation, even though she could use the Mists?

This is a really great list! There are only two changes I would want to make 1. Clarify that while you could probably use Intention to get Allomantic effects from burning metalminds, Vin burning Sazed’s pewter is not a case of that. She literally couldn’t use that power because she wasn’t a Feruchemist 2. Without duralumin, a Compounder can’t instantly burn away their entire metal like they could tap a metalmind. They would be limited by Allomantic burn rates and perhaps even burn the metal slower than usual since there’s more Investiture. Edit: Just to clarify, I thought that metalminds burned slower because they were harder for leachers to break in. But it seems like they may be different mechanics. Thank you for your insight