Atlas333

While we've still got a decent ways out I've very interested to see what Isaac does with Scadrial. My goal is to do two things: 1. Compile everything we know about the book so far and 2. Theorize what we might get to see. Get ready for a lot of WoBs; I've bolded the relevant parts to hopefully make this massive post easier to navigate. Here's what we know: 1. The book will be set on Scadrial around era 2 featuring a character named Nicelle Sauvage (Aka Nicki Savage). She is a leecher and a noblewoman who has had contact with both Naz and Allomancer Jak. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nicelle_Sauvage 2. The blurb could be summarized as "A woman with a strange magical power journey to an island to find a mythical book that might raise the dead." This book has several interesting implications. It could be connected to threnody, hemalurgy or potentially even awakening (although I think hemalurgy is the most likely which I'll get into later) 3. The book was originally called boatload of mummies and was inspired by a lego set Isaac had as a kid where he used his surplus of mummy figures to crew a ship. This could be an event that happens in the book or just a point of inspiration. 4. The book will unsurprisingly feature mummies, but where are these mummies coming from? I doubt they're from the basin so maybe southern scadrial? 5. The plot can be described as beginning like king kong (just getting on a boat, no giant monkey most likely), continuing like death on the nile and finally is comparable to the mummy while also being like raiders of the lost ark. Interestingly he also cites Venom as a "healthy dose". Makes me wonder if Nicki will be teaming up with some kind of cognitive entity, potentially unwillingly. 6. The title might be changed to "The Book of Nails" implying hemalurgy will be a big focus. Interestingly, he says this could also be a series title if there is enough interest which implies the sequels would also be about this book and potentially hemalurgy. 7. Naz could potentially be a major side character. It's been hinted at that we may get more on their relationship and how it's evolved. 8. The first draft is currently at 118K words and sound like its in the revision stage as of December 2023. I don't know anything about how long it takes to produce a book so I can't even guess when we might get it but I would love to hear other people's predictions. I'm sure there are things I missed so let me know what you think.

Silver could potentially help, although I imagine it's more complicated than just ingesting silver. Maybe there's a way to ingest a small amount of silver to add a few years to your lifespan?

I could honestly see this one happening. Guide form: Granted by bonding a guidance spren. These parshendi have an extremely precise knowledge of where they are at all times and an incredible sense of direction (seems kind of weak for a regal form but that's kind of all guidance spren do). Whither form: Granted by bonding a shade from threnody. Like shades these parshendi would have mostly white carapace that turns black when enraged (not sure how much the three rules would apply, definitely killing, maybe starting a fire, and probably not moving quickly) although they are much more in control they can lose that control if not careful. Additionally, they would be able to wither people much like a shade but not through touch; instead they can breath out voidlight in a form that whithers whoever touches it.

That actually makes a decent amount of sense. I was just curious if we had anything official, but this seems a good enough answer for now. Thank you

Do we know why the southern scadrians wear masks? Is it mostly a culture thing? Or is there another reason? I'm curious because why would an entire culture to suddenly start wearing masks. Was it a thing before the Ice Death? Or did the Sovereign start it? Or does it benefit them some other way? I haven't been able to find anything concrete but also don't have time reread the books. Anyone know?

Both sound cool, although I think option 2 is more consistent with what we’ve seen of the transformation, not even Odium can force an unwilling singer to become a fused (although there could be potential applications with hemalurgy I guess). And I’m assuming this would be a form granted by captivity spren? I definitely think the more “negative” can be more of a challenge but this is a cool idea (although I don’t imagine the spren would be able to leave. Forms of power work a lot like fabrials which trap spren).

Cool idea, and could be a parallel to how the pursuer's teleportations can be tracked before they reappear. I don't think Brandon would include a common power like teleportation without giving it some unique rules. I've always wondered if there was a way for else caller to phase through walls or something similar. The thought comes from a Jasnah pov chapter after she escapes from the ship. Here, "one foot in" seems to be a different ability from seeing into the cognitive realm. It could potentially be like how spren are kind of ephemeral and can only slightly affect the physical realm but in reverse. Unfortunately, Jashah seems to rely more on soulcasting than she does elsecalling, so we don't have more information to go on.

Personally, I find the parshendi's forms of power incredibly fascinating. I don't want to spend too long getting into it but it sounds like there are most likely dozens of forms (maybe even hundreds), most we haven't seen. Also, new forms can arise from "new spren" meaning there isn't a predetermined number of forms. Or, even more interestingly, different forms of investiture can grant forms This isn't even mentioning void spren and corrupted spren. To me that means its virtually impossible to categorize every parshendi form. Instead, I wanted to see what other people could come up with and even suggest their own. Simply grab a spren we haven't seen a form for yet or a magic system and ask yourself how that might create a new form. I'll post a few examples one a "form of power" granted by outside investiture and another common form granted by a spren. Commander form: This form is granted when a parshendi receives enough breaths to achieve the first heightening. Beyond getting those benefits I would think they would get small benefits of the next two heightenings (not quite perfect pitch or color perception but better than your average person) as well as take on the appearance of the "ideal parshendi" like the returned but to a lesser extent. In addition, they would probably be slightly better at envisioning their commands. Finally, these parshendi would be more giving and kind, it's endowment's investiture after all. Feast form: This form is granted when a parshendi bonds an ale sprend. The benefits of this form is generally greater constitution in terms of what these parshendi can eat and drink. Additionally, this form makes parshendi more emotional and has a stronger "gut feeling" while also having a larger gut and more fat than typical forms. Have fun!

I'm not sure if this has been previously discussed but this line from oathbringer between Gavilar and Eshonai always intrigued me. It's heavily implied that he's talking about reclaiming the powers of the knight radiants but he uses a different term for the parshmen - vibrant - but they sound equal in terms of power. What were these "vibrant forms?" (For lack of a better term). This could be referring to regal forms or the fused but I don't think that's it; I don't think we've heard vibrant used to describe either. This is my theory: vibrant forms are what happens when a parshmen bonds a true spren in a highstorm (ie taking the spren into their gemheart). Presumably this would give unique forms (such as a "lightweaver form") that grants access to the same surges but wouldn't have oaths and therefore be slightly weaker. This could be how the dawnsingers had access to cohesion. Perhaps this is why the spren left the parshmen for the humans. Vibrant forms were stagnant and didn't allow the spren to experience the world (they would be trapped in a gem heart after all). But this isn't really the focus of this theory. Cons to this theory: Venli Venli is clearly bonded to a true spren but is probably not in a vibrant form. There are two potential explanations. 1. Venli's gemheart is occupied by a voidspren which determines her form (envoy form). 2. She's bonded to a Timbre through the nahel bond, not the biological bond that grants parshendi forms. Pros to this theory: Beyond the quote from gavilar we have this WoB. While this could be interpreted a few ways to me it sounds like a parshendi can bond a true spren in a high storm although it would have to be consensual. However, this bond could also be taken to mean a radiant bond but I personally doubt it. Thoughts?

I love the thought experiment, but personally, I think it's more interesting to think of godspeed in terms of things that are incredibly important to a planet's culture. After all, a spren is heavily influenced by perception. If something is considered powerful than it's spren will be. For example, as it was talked about before, I think that Scadrial's god spren would be the mist (maybe the "mist maiden" because it was described as appearing like Vin at times to wax). While this would be connected to Preservation it is primarily a manifestation of the planet's perception of the mists. Similarly, the sun on Canticle would definitely have a spren. Beyond that, I don't know if there are any other major things that could spawn a spren. Elantris itself is a good pick and maybe a giant desert spren for Taldain? Maybe each sea on Lumar would have a spren? (maybe not a "godspren though).

What I mean by the title is that I'm starting to think that the disease-based magic on Ashyn is a combination of Odium and Cultivation's magic systems. While we don't know a lot about Ashyn to say anything definitively about the planet, here are the facts as I see them: 1. Odium was connected to the Ashynites and came with them to Roshar, 2. Cultivation has some kind of connection to the Ashynite magic system. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15171 3. Cultivation has been shown to work with Odium in recent events (i.e., the end of Rhythm of War). So essentially, this would mean that the disease magic is a combination of Cultivation and Odium much like the Radiant Oaths are a combination of Cultivation and Honor. To me, this makes a lot of sense because I couldn't wrap my head around how one planet was connected to two shards unless they were in on it together (I suppose there is a chance that Cultivation's original magic was on Ashyn, and then Odium could have invaded potentially?? I'm not a fan of this as much because the destruction of the planet was of their own doing and not that of an invading force). Additionally, it kind of fits with how the two shards would influence access to their magic. Diseases are something that can get worse (i.e., cultivate), but at the same time, they seem to be negatively influenced; what I mean is that I don't think cultivation's normal magic system would be so destructive which points to Odium's influence. The application of this theory is twofold. 1. It helps us potentially understand more of the system's magic system and how the shards interact with each other. 2. Points to the conflict between the shards being more nuanced than Odium v Cultivation and Honor. Thoughts?

Shoot, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that. While I agree they probably aren't servants of Odium there could still be something said that the only radiants we see working with the Ghostbloods are Skybreakers rather than Windrunners. But as to why it's nearly impossible to say at this point. I think it's probably just convenience as you pointed out and most orders could stick to Roshar. Still excited to see what this all means.

I've noticed a trend that post-Stormlight 5, we only really see Skybreakers and none of the other orders. Light spoilers for the unpublished Sixth of Dusk sequel and the Lost Metal At first, I thought this was favoritism by Brandon. Or it could just be that for a quick cameo, Skybreakers are an easy order to make it clear to the reader what type of radiant they are. But then I got thinking. An era of radiants where only Skybreakers kept their oaths. Sounds a lot like the Recreance, doesn't it? To me, this means that Odium wins in Stormlight 5 (not exactly a new idea), but then most of the other orders abandon their oaths rather than serve Odium or perhaps go into hiding or something similar. However, Skybreakers are more concerned with obeying authority than what is right or wrong. So, once again, they are the only order that keeps their oaths and continues to serve Odium and become the dominant order of Radiants. While I think this theory is fairly solid, we only have a few examples, so it could just be a coincidence. Additionally, Hoid is shown to still have his oaths, and he doesn't serve Odium. He's a weird case, though, so I'm not accounting for him in this theory. Anyway, what do you guys think?

A- Nicrosil/F-Duralumin (Allomancy- boost other's metals/Feruchemy- store and tap connections) These two powers actually go decently well together. Both of these abilities are heavily reliant on others. Nicrosil makes you an asset to any team of allomancers and duralumin can help you strengthen your connection to those allomancers. While this probably doesn't have any crazy applications, it would useful when it came to settling disagreements between different members. This character could also be an effective "face" for this team handling the negotiating and other social obstacles they might encounter. I do want to briefly mention I have wondered if you could tap enough connection to bypass the physical contact requirement from nicrosil to use it from a distance. I think it should work; assuming that touching the allomancer is establishing a physical connection, who's to say a spiritual connection wouldn't work? However, we don't have any idea how much connection you would need to tap. For all we know, it might take a compounder to make this work. For that reason, that potential interaction isn't taken into account for my rating. Resonance: Still not confident enough to say, but if I had to guess, maybe their nicrosil would be more effective on people they have stronger connections to? Rating: 7 Not bad, in my opinion. Even if the powers don't interact in any spectacular ways, these twinborn have quite a few ways to assist a team of allomancers. Name: Team player is safe, but I prefer Mediator (for settling disputes in the team) or, more likely, Coordinator because I could see this kind of twinborn being a leader but not the kind to be on the front lines.

Hey, I hope it's all right that I post this here. I've worked on quite a bit of homebrew. I don't claim to be an expert on game design, but my goal was to better represent some aspects of the books than some of the current rules do. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YZwPBLoUU4IjxDY0Duq7C0rMcIvUs0tE/edit Here's a quick overview of what's available. Rebalancing power levels (some of the less useful metals can be chosen at character creation without changing a character's power level) Rules for Southern Scadrian characters Additional networks Metal reworks (to make some more like how they are in the books) New abilities and stunts for a few metals Exclusive abilities for twinborn with complimentary powers Reworked savantism (the goal is to make it both powerful and costly) If anyone has thoughts, I would be more than happy to hear them.

I'm sure other people have their own methods for keeping track of what combos have been done already, but I just couldn't keep it all straight, so I went ahead and made this handy table. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_Xbhypr0ihq1A3rLzmvr0wcHL-TKnm81m6LIyK9lMqQ/edit#gid=0 It's color-coded to show which ones have been done already. I'll admit I took a few creative liberties with the names as I felt some fit better than others. Hopefully, this makes it easier for others to contribute to this thread without worrying about repeating previous combinations. I'll try and update it as new combos are posted.

The short answer is that yes, forging can create any change in your spirit web. However, stuff like that is going to take a lot of investiture. I would say that breaths and surgebinding would be the easiest to replicate, considering those are things that aren't tied to your connection to the planet while allomancy and feruchemy would be significantly more difficult because you'd have to rewrite your past to being born on Scadrial. The breaths thing is a bit more difficult. It works for hemalurgy so I would say it might work for breaths, but again, needs a ton of investiture.

While you're right that the nicrosil doesn't run out, the other attribute will. From what we've seen, it looks like a medallion only gives the ability to tap or store, not both. This means that once you've tapped all your heat, you can't refill it. I could see this easily being solved by selling filled metal minds for certain attributes that can be "refilled" into medallions (which I think sounds perfect for a setting that's more futuristic). Definitely agree, for some groups of people hemalurgy will always be preferred to medallions.

I think this idea is incredibly interesting and definitely plausible. The difficulty is finding uses for it. I don't see identity being a particularly useful attribute to spike unless you're trying to impersonate them maybe. Still, the side effects would probably be even worse than a normal spike, so probably not worth it. For Nicrosil, I don't think it works that way. Granted, this is talking about medallions, but I still think it applies. It sounds like once you store investiture, you lose it permanently until you tap it, just like with memories. That means nicrosil alone isn't enough to increase your powers. Because of that it's difficult to see how tapping nicrosil would change anything unless we're talking about medallions or something like that. Connection could be useful if you wanted to spike out a specific connection like a connection to the land to immediately learn a new language. This is the one that I see being the easiest and most valuable to use. Destiny is also interesting, but I agree it's tricky to predict. Unfortunately, there isn't much to say about this one. Still, very interesting theory. I'm excited to see where it goes.

I just want to start by saying that this is an incredibly impressive theory, so much so that I can't wrap my head around all the details, so I'm just going to stick to what I do understand. My main suggestion is about Preservation's placement on the chart. I think your reasoning is very solid about it being in the temporal section, but something doesn't seem right to me that it isn't "exists, then exists." Additionally, there's this quote in Secret History when Sazed takes up the shards that could be seen as evidence that Preservation and Ruin aren't a push-pull pair. Also, I've always thought that invention and ruin were opposites (create and destroy). I don't have much evidence for this, though. So, if I had to suggest changes, it would be to swap preservation with x and then swap x with invention if that makes sense. The only problem is that this probably messes up more than it "fixes." For example, this would mean that preservation is now the opposite of valor. Although x could be seen as a form of change, so I do think that fits. Still, great theory overall.

I actually really like this idea and think it could be possible. I'm just not sure if a gold shadow would "possess" an identity-less person. (In fact, storing identity while burning gold would probably do weird things to your gold shadow or probably just make it vanish/fade) A while back, I made a similar theory to achieve similar results with a slightly different method. You can read it here if you like (although this thread is a much better exploration of the ideas, there's really no reason to). https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/139216-soul-stamping-via-the-metallic-arts/#comment-1540086 I'll just summarize the important bits. To start, I was assuming that when you burn gold, you have access to your gold shadow's identity (this is because when you see a gold shadow, you have access to their thoughts and point of view, so for all intents and purposes, you are your gold shadow, in my opinion.) Then, while burning gold, you store your gold shadow's identity in an aluminum mind. Then, when you need that identity's skills (like with the door example from earlier), you tap that identity, and it temporarily overwrites your identity like a soul stamp. (Although now, after reading this thread, I agree you'd probably have to store your original identity to make this work). So, in short, I agree, but I think that you might have to do weird identity things via feruchemy and that gold allomancy wouldn't achieve the desired outcome even if you stored your identity while burning gold. I think the biggest question for this theoretical soulstamping, is there any way to change what gold shadow you see? I'm in the camp that you always see the one gold shadow that's most opposed to your current life because that's what we see in the books. The only way to change this gold shadow is through significant life decisions. This severely limits the usefulness of this ability as you're essentially limited to one essence mark. But could there be methods to get around this limitation?

Yeah, exactly. I don't mean to say it was a mistake or anything. It was a very complicated situation, and we don't know all of the details yet. I just meant to say they were the cause of the build-up.

I was rereading Words of Radiance and found an interesting quote when Eshonai attempted to convince the Parshendi to take up Stormform. This stood out to me because it sounds exactly like how the Dor was described when Raoden drew his first Aons, which means a similar thing was happening to Odium. His power was essentially trapped like the Dor is. This means that the Everstorm is a natural consequence of having thousands of years with no desolation. It also explains why Odium didn't create the Everstorm during any earlier desolation and how the singers were able to do such an incredible feat despite just recently obtaining Stormform. This also means, if you wanted to point fingers, that the heralds are technically the ones to blame because their attempts to end the desolations technically worked for a time, but that doesn't seem particularly insightful. As for how this theory could be applied to future events, I think it means that there is no future where you can neutralize Odium. Even trapping him on Braize just builds up his power. That means the solution is to either incapacitate him (such as shattering him) or integrate him (such as absorbing his shard or maybe allowing the Everstorm to continue rather than ending it). So, what do you guys think? Was the Everstorm a consequence of Odium's power building up, or is creating something like the Everstorm within the scope of a shard's ability to create?

A soulcaster savant pays a visit to the Nightwatcher.

I think it's an interesting theory, and I want it to be true. I think they could technically hold more spikes, or maybe more accurately, they can hold the same number but not suffer as many side effects (didn't Harmony place a hard limit of 4 spikes max per person? I feel like I read that at some point). As for drawing on Ruin, we don't really know what that would look like. The mists are obviously of preservation, but we don't really have a ruin counterpart to compare to. Also, because allomancy is of preservation, all allomancers draw on preservation's power no matter what. So, in short, hemalurgy tolerance is the most likely but we don't have much evidence either way.