lacrossedeamon

15 hours ago, Starwatcher said:

Definitely would need more Keepers to weigh in before doing something this big. Also, if we were to do this, we'd probably want to find a more efficient approach than manually editing over a thousand pages.

Guess that means my work is done here for now

On 4/29/2024 at 4:39 PM, Starwatcher said:

To be honest, the metals having pages is also a bit of an outlier, mostly driven by the fact that they're relevant (and have patterns) across multiple magic systems (compare to the Surges, which don't have individual articles because it all just goes on the Surgebinding page)

Still think humans are relevant enough to warrant a page but maybe it's good to hold off until like the Dragonsteel books

On 4/29/2024 at 4:39 PM, Starwatcher said:

Hmm... as things become more interconnected, I could maybe see some utility in having a category for all humans in the cosmere. Just categorizing things by planet is going to start running into some trouble and potentially restructuring categories is something that's been on our radar.

So is that a go for it on the category page at least?

On 4/29/2024 at 4:12 PM, Starwatcher said:

I believe Lumaran, Taldaini, and Komashi are not canon, but I don't recall any discussions about them (Komashi is particularly weird, because usually that would be the category just for locations on the planet). To be honest, I think there's a larger underlying issue here about how our templates start breaking down when we don't have canon demonyms; one idea I've been considering is having them produce category names like "People of Canticle" instead, at least when the demonym is unknown.

Yeah we have similar issues on another wiki i work on regarding category pages for ethnicity vs nationality vs residency vs nation states that no longer exist. But if there is a overhaul in the wings then I'll hold off from doing anything.

How about a compromise for now and just a humans category page to at least fall under sapient beings and potentially under applicable [planet] lifeforms as well

So the demonyms for planets (surprised sci-fi hasn't come up with a specific word for this) being used as category pages are Rosharan, Lumaran, Taldaini, Selish, Nalthian, Scadrian, Komashi, Threnodite, and Yolish. Have all of these been used in canon as actual demonyms? If so then it makes sense until we get its usage in the narrative. If not then we should vote on how to form the demonym for Canticle.

That's a very different design philosophy than I am used to but the wiki I am most active on, Assassin's Creed, is a very different franchise from the cosmere. While understandable I would still argue that humans should have a page in a similar way that iron has a page.

Sounds good

Proposal to make a separate page for people on Canticle. The first thing to address is do we have a canonical demonym. I would assume it's Canticlite but I'm not sure we ever see it in the source material. Second is would we treat it like Rosharans who do not fall under Ashynites (which currently also doesn't have its own page) or would it be a subcategory on the Threnodite page.

Well we have pages for the other sapients in the series and some of them we have less information than humans so to me it felt like a glaring absence.

This should be a thing right?

14 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I like these posts more than a poll because you can legitimately figure out why others think they way they do. A poll encourages click and go, while this encourages discourse, and even thread takeover (like that one about nukes in which order is second best). I prettymuch ignore polls because they only convey oppinion.

I would be hard pressed to call anything these style posts encourages discourse. More like people (including myself) shouting at into the void with very little factual basis.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

You forgot that Scadrial's day is 24h in 365 day year (Earth-like), Roshar's is 20h in 500 day year. We don't know how Rashek's actions changed Scadrial's day and year, but it didn't affect the character's age and Scadrial's calendar because Rashek kept an old one. So Kaladin's 2 Rosharian years, are 2.28 Scadrial's years.

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king of nowhere (paraphrased)

The lord ruler moved Scadrial closer to the sun, and orbital dynamics dictate that so its time of revolution would also become shorter. how did that impact the ages of the characters, and how did it impact the 1024 years of refilling of the well?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that Arcanum unbounded will contain all the calendars and that peter made actual orbital calculations. Brandon also confirmed that the characters ages were really earth ages, and that the lord ruler kept the old calendar in the final empire, even though it did not fit with the length of the year. That sounded very strange to me, but then I remembered that we already have the Islamic calendar who doesn't follow the year, so a calendar not coinciding with the year is something never seen before. he also confirmed that modern Scadrial has an earth-like year duration, which we already knew. he said that people only started asking that in the last year and he was surprised it took that long to ask about that.

Lucca Comics and Games Festival (Oct. 28, 2016)

But this whole "age" argument has no point nor any sense. It's an argument just to disagree.

TBF when I said "less time" I actually meant less POV word count (Kaladin is about 100K more than Vin) and then had to scramble to just the exact wording. But your second point is spot on. That's all any of these posts are.

10 minutes ago, therunner said:

May I ask, what is the purpose of this? It really does not seem like you are really discussing anything with honest intent.

I used a meme from cremposting which led to this current tangent. My intent should be obvious. I find these threads to be inherently without integrity to begin with. If you wanna know how the fandom sides on a topic do it as a poll. Any else is a flimsy excuse to argue for ego points.

But anyways.

21 minutes ago, therunner said:

Cultivation only affect people who make deals with her (Taravangian, Dalinar, Lift) no one else (Preservation and Ruin could learn a thing or two about consent from her ) so Kaladin could not have been selected by her.

I actually accounted for that in my statement by saying that she would have to engineer such a meeting in order to bless Kaladin. That is something I fully believe she could do with her seemingly greater grasp of future sight but didn't.

They would both agree this fight is stupid and ally with each other instead.

18 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And ignore that Vin only did that because she was selected to, not based on any of her own merit.

Only if we also ignore that Cultivation passed up on not engineering a way to select Kaladin.

19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Otherwise you would have to say that Taravangian would make a better Mistborn than her.

Well it took him like 7 years but yeah he would probably be pretty good.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

If you want to start that early, I can take Vin from the fist chapter of FE, which puts it closer to 3 years.

So Vin kills a shard within 3 years and Kaladin is within the third year already. Hopefully he gets his kill before the time skip then.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

KoW finishes up before the second year does.

And Preservation's mind was not working at the time, so it very well have just been her winning the shardaic lottery.

Not including Prelude, Prologue, Flashbacks WoK starts in 1172 with Syl beginning to bond even before that and we are now in 1175.

14 hours ago, therunner said:

Now now, Kaladin does not have advantage of being focal point of millenia long plan orchestrated by a Shard, unlike the Mistborn in question
Or having the luxury of being trained in his powers by someone else

And also, his series arc is not yet over, so let us not get ahead of ourselves.

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

Yes, let's assume it was skill that allowed in to do that, and not Preservation chosing her.

Let's also ignore that it took Vin over two years in books to do that, and Kaladin has only been doing this for one.

One could argue if Kaladin were better his arc would be done in less time like Vin's. And that Preservation chose her because of latent skill. You don't pick a chump to be your champion.

13 hours ago, alder24 said:

Please always provide sources for claims like this. I can't find anything:

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shinarit?

There is that scene where Kaladin takes a sharp turn at high speeds and he almost blacks out. That is normal for jet pilots, since they experience high G forces when their airplane tries to accelerate them by their backs and bottoms.

But Lashing doesn't work that way, it generates fake gravity. Accelerating your whole body shouldn't cause you anything, you can't even feel it.

Is this something that is an admitted physics hiccup or I misunderstood this kind of Investiture usage?

Brandon Sanderson

This one is actually in the process of flux, as I do more research on the effects of acceleration (including interviews with fighter pilots, which has been fun.) Basically, I realized I needed to beef up my understanding of all this, and then make some decisions on exactly how this all works, because I've been relying on instinct too much in some of these sequences.

So...that's a RAFO, I'm afraid. More because I'm still tweaking some of the little details of how I want this all to work. (In ways that become increasingly relevant as I look forward toward things like Windrunners in space.)

There are a ton of details to consider, even if I eventually hand-wave some of it with the magic. (For example, the heart pumping blood in a high-g environment. How does that interact, if at all, with stormlight? And the direct oxygenation of the brain implied by not needing to breathe while holding stormlight...)

We have several very large math-ish projects going on behind the scenes.

Phoenixdown

I think it depends on if lashing independently impacts each atom within your body simultaneously, or if it is only a subset.

Brandon Sanderson

There's one important fact you're not considering, but which is vital: reader expectation.

One of the questions I have to ask myself is this: What will the reader expect to happen? How will they expect to feel? Granted, none of us have ever flown like this before--but we generally imagine similar things, similar feelings.

As a writer, one thing I need to balance is when I go against reader expectations and when I don't. Going against the expectations can be interesting, but often takes a large burden of words and explanation to keep reminding them something is not how they'd imagine it to be.

For example, it took a relatively large amount of reader attention (and explanation) to keep reminding people in Mistborn that plants weren't green and the sky wasn't blue. In many ways, making something new (like a chull) is easier on readers than making something familiar into something strange (like the horses in Dragonsteel, which were smaller than Earth horses--and kept causing confusion problems in my alpha readers.)

As annoying as this example can me, this is why Lucas had sound, fire, gravity, etc in space. Starships banking in formation felt real to the viewers, even if it didn't make sense in context. I hope to not go that far, but these questions are something in my mind.

I try to be careful not to remove the sensations of magic, in order to keep the movements of characters grounded. Windrunning has left me having to decide how far I want to go with things like this, in order to preserve the visceral feelings for the reader.

General Reddit 2018 (June 6, 2018)

 

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

It says the narative reason is that the reader expects it, nothing about Kaladin's preception.

This was the WOB I was thinking of. I mandelaed a in universe reason I guess.

17 minutes ago, therunner said:

and yet the virgin Windrunner beats the Chad Mistborn

Goes to show virgin power is real

If Kaladin was as effective as a Mistborn he would would have taken up Honor and killed Odium by now.

The discussion is now over. (Although this is technically Kaladin v Vin)

6 minutes ago, Elder said:

That’s a fair point, and I would argue that Hallandren’s more expressive culture suits Autonomy’s Intent regarding creativity moreso than Idrian culture does.  There’s just really no particular figure for autonomy to be in there.

We haven't really seen much of Nalthian religions outside of Idris, Halladren, and a bit of Pahn Kahl. It's possible her seed/Avatar is connected to a different culture/country.

3 minutes ago, drunkenbotanist said:

Who prosecutes war crimes in the cosmere 

Clearly no one.

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Are you sure?

I'd have to wonder where he learned about g forces in that case.

Isn't that what the WOB states? The narrative reasoning g-force was there because the audience would expect it and it was in universe reasoning was because Kaladin expected it?

I don't think he knows about g-force per se but he would understand the basics what a change in acceleration would feel like I assume.

6 hours ago, Elder said:

Along these lines, I kinda wonder if Autonomy didn’t also start a seed religion with Austre on Nalthis.  Doesn’t entirely match to profile, and I doubt Nalthis is a high priority for Autonomy right now.

Well there is the comparisons in the fandom with the MoRaG and Lifeless

On 2/22/2023 at 11:59 AM, cometaryorbit said:

3. OK, here I strongly disagree. Iron/Steel has the disadvantage of needing anchors, but Windrunners *do* feel g-forces (yeah, by RL physics they shouldn't, but they do).

And Mistborn Wax has pewter Allomancy, so he can take a lot of g-force. Also, Steelpushes/Ironpulls tend to be short-burst (unlike Lashings) and the human body can take a lot more g-force in short bursts than over time. So I think he's actually likely to be less troubled by g-forces than a Windrunner.

(Now, Kaladin won't crush himself because of Stormlight healing, but that doesn't mean he can function well enough to fight under high g-forces. Stormlight oxygenates him without need to breathe, but that won't give him the strength to move his limbs at high g. He'd have to constantly cancel Lashings and re-Lash to move at really high accelerations and still fight. I think there's a reason we don't generally see x10 or x20 Lashings used to fly.)

On 2/22/2023 at 3:34 PM, therunner said:

I know Windrunners feel g-forces, even though they reaaally should not, however Mistborn/Mistings should definately experience them (their powers generate regular forces).

Technically Kaladin only feels g-force because he thinks he should like cognitive Kelsier with pain. So it should be possible to change that with better training and understanding.