Tamriel Wolfsbaine

I agree with @Treamayne that the skill and practice of the awakener is important. Likely the ability to visualize how well you want something to work is a large limiting factor. I think that is a large part of why Vasher has developed and chosen to use so many commands including the idea "as mine". Whether they be additions to his arms or his legs or even his whole body at once... It is far easier to nail down the visualization of something that you already do all the time. Although this idea makes me wonder if someone with TV who binge watches a ton of bruce lee could command a jumpsuit to act and fight like Bruce Lee... Which leads to the potential of giving further super powers to awakened objects as visual effects get better in cosmere wide cinema haha. Mistborn spoiler: I also think that material can only do what material can do. Dont expect a cord with 100lb tensile strength to hurl 200 lb boulders. Thankfully we have cordage that really really stacks in weight. Further, imagine future awakeners who hit the 9th heightening and the damage they could do with a set of extra long doc ock arms made of steel cable. I think the amount of breaths plays the smallest roll in this. The breaths will naturally balance out the materials ability to make your visualization come to life.

Well the specification of 1 breath makes this difficult to say. I don't know that there is any command that allows cloth to do anything with a single breath only. We see Zahel use awakening to fight Kaladin and Kaladin does use Syl to cut the cloths. He says they are still wriggling around on the floor post cut. So certainly not all of the breath is lost. I imagine that you would lose some of the breath with each strike. Similarly to metalminds being able to withstand an amount of hits before being destroyed as well. How much? I don't know that we will ever get the numbers. But Brandon suggests that they are... however, he writes all of the action scenes before calculating the amount of stormlight or breaths or metals that are needed to make them suspenseful.

I didn't think about potentially forging. Can you forge a human who was soulcast into metal to "never have been soulcast" and then turn them lifeless with 1 breath and have it stick the next day? How does forging work in that regard? Would anything that happens while it is in its forged state be lost when it reverts? If you had a broken leg and attempted to forge yourself back before the broken leg and while in that state you tapped a bunch of gold... would your leg be healed when your forging wears off or would you go back to having a broken leg and simply wasted the stored health of a gold mind? So basically the breaths act as the muscle and connective tissue holding the mass together and giving it mobility. As @alder24 has pointed out in the past armor wearing lifeless may be better than the phantoms because they have the muscle mass and connective tissue to power themselves and wear the armor. Bones can't move on their own they need breath to give them mobility. However, I am curious if breath could be infused into the lifeless in a way to keep it retrievable to allow them the strength to move around faster and be stronger in a suit of heavy heavy armor... Perhaps having cloth and or rope... or even leather holding joints of a suit of armor together being awakened to give it strength would do this better... Having breath be retrievable is a big deal when thinking about a pet class archetype.... which I really view the awakener as being. Buffing themselves at a higher cost but able to bring forth a bunch of pets and items that, when used together, would really dominate the action economy of a scene.

Thanks guys. I forgot those WoBs exact phrasing. I guess the best bet is still to just coat the lifeless in wax... have them move around a bit to figure out the joints needed, and then soulcast the wax into near seamless armor.

I want to ask about awakening lifeless that have been soulcast... or creating soulcast lifeless. Does the Awakening have to happen pre or post the soulcaster changing the target into the desired material? If I want to have a big, heavy, hard lifeless made out of Tungsten: would I need to awaken it and then change it to Tungsten and then infuse it with more breath to make it mobile? Or would soulcasting a lifeless into Tungsten kill the lifeless and be a waste of breath? If I soulcast a corpse into Tungsten and then attempt to awaken it... does it act as a corpse or a thing? Would it follow the rules of the 9th heightening being needed to awaken metal or because it is a corpse and you are awakening a lifeless with a 1 breath command does it treat it like a corpse and ignore the fact that it is made of metal now? I think the order in which it happens is going to make a large difference in how possible this is going to be.

So what exactly do you suppose the benefit to a blessing of presence is for the kandra? I always thought it was like some passive benefits of copper and zinc feruchemy (same benefits) but it sounds like their ability to think and move is better than zinc anyways. Of course that is assuming that is the only reason bleeder was functional. I think steels bullet time is more than adequate to function at lower levels. I think that feruchemy does a good job at protecting itself and making itself functional at lower rates. For instance, Bleeder really didn't have to be moving at such a massive pace. To be able to get from one side of a room to another is only a few strides. At a run it could be covered in a couple seconds. If you quadruple your speed you could get multiple shots off while the noise from the first one is still sounding. I am willing to bet that all feruchemical enhancements can pretty well compensate at a tripling and quadrupling of an attribute. We don't see feruchemists choose to just double or triple or quadruple anything really. Its usually massive usages at once leaving a ton of waste. Bleeder could be a blurr in doors at 80mph and be functioning nearly totally normally. When we see feruchemy limiting what the magic can compensate for is when the user is magnifying things far beyond what they are normally. 10s of times stronger or 100s of times heavier... considering Wax can and often does store upwards of 6,000,000 pounds worth of weight (for a second) his tapping to break floors and crush buildings is him weighing 100s if not 1000s of times more than he usually does. I don't know that he could take a step if he wanted to but the protection is still functioning. To make steel scary strong you don't need to be 37x faster than normal. Marasi moving at that rate could have slaughtered every person on that mountain before they could blink. She had a very specific goal... get to Wax and save him. But it only lasted a couple of seconds. Perhaps her need for zinc here is totally warranted but she is also tapping 37x or more of typical speed. At 4 times her normal speed she would be a menace and the spiritual realm would not have had to do nearly as much heavy lifting to keep her functional. I would say steel runners are still really strong at that estimation. Storing 20% for a minute could allow you 10 seconds of double your normal speed likely. Counting diminishing returns I would say even if 10 minutes at 20% storage only bought you 10 seconds at 4x normal speed it is more than enough to kill a room full of bad guys before they really realize you are doing it. Just watch hema fencing at 200% normal speed... you almost can't see the strikes. At 400% normal speed the fencers would be a blur.

I was just thinking about this. If it is not already on the list of things a kandra could do then this is evidence for a new trick. @Trusk'our could a kandra hot wire their neuro pathways to replicate Feruchemical zinc to a point where bleeder is able to act and think while using steel? She clearly thinks fast enough that looking into Wayne's bendalloy bubble she was able to recognize they were sped up roughly the same speed. (Which shows how fast she had to be thinking and moving considering Wayne's bubble has slowed down shockwaves enough for Wax to process an escape route as the explosion is going off in the same room...)

This is what I always loved about his books. The limitations built in endless speculation for my mind to consider random pairings of powers and synergies. Then he wrote SA and I felt the magic of his magic systems being interesting thanks to their limitations drain out of my body. Truly a sad day... but I needed more cosmere. Anyways back to the topic at hand. I agree fully that F steel is balanced. What is not balanced is compounding steel. But compounding anything is not balanced so to nerf F steel to the ground because you need to solve compounding is a really poor approach to finding balance. I stand by the thought that being a speedster is just not practical in most situations in life. You might be the best duelist in the cosmere but it just doesn't really do a ton for you! Super speed without other enhancements is a recipe for disaster. For writing purposes or gameplay purposes a speedster is going to build more enemies than he does friends while using that speed. The nice part is you could lean into the super speed as a reason to not try to improve physical aspects of yourself and just focus solely on the social aspects of life.

I was watching the beginning fight scenes of Jet Li's Fearless and the saber fighter really stood out as a potential example of what parrying with a wrapped arm could do. If you amplify that further through more intricate commands that could definately be a big deal. I am sure you are correct that the command has evolved over time. I like to think that the breaths... become better at doing what you want. It isn't just the awakener and the commands but their connection to the breaths and the combined experience of eachother that allows for really complex commands such as that. Good points. Now I am curious what an awakeners loadout might look like as far as tools for it. Being a large fan of Fandabi Dozi and his channel I have always pictured an awakener with some large greatkilt and wraps around the arms and legs as well as some good old fashion rope(s) and perhaps... if lucky enough an awakened sword and some flasks of ichor alcohol. I think it may also be wise to carry a few ink sticks that can be dissolved in water to re-dye any and all awakened clothing... being able to awaken it in your free time and then dye it again for last minute transfers and re awakening that may be needed during travels.

I think the largest nerf to steel was the amount of compression and loss that happens with it as demonstrated when Marasi has the bands. I think her hand, at least, was moving about Mach 1. The rest of her may not have been and she ended up dumping nearly all of the attribute in a matter of a couple seconds. I do think that bleeders use was still OP. She was so fast people couldn't see her but even moving 4x human max speed would make a person a blurr in a room. And it clearly can be used for a long period of time. Other than to demonstrate what a pain it is to store an attribute, it is super boring to read stories of people storing all the time. Noone rolls the dice with feruchemy while weakened on purpose... maybe there is a time or two where appearing weaker would be better. But for the most part, no matter how much feruchemy is "net neutral", when used on screen it is a massively net positive yield. We don't want to read about the hours and weeks of weakness we don't see... but the seconds of epic page turning dominance is why feruchemy is so great. Super speed is always going to be a pain to balance. The best way to balance super speed is by offering the character challenges that physical combat can't solve. If you go murder hobo in diplomacy it may end with you being the winner right now but in the long run you will end up with armies hating you and sanctions that strangle your ability to live. Bleeder is the only character who could get away with it because she didn't have to be her self when using it. Even though a government might really enjoy using your destructive capabilities I envision that coming with a ton of red tape and so much restriction that it would make living with that power more trouble than I would want.

Thanks for the replies. Ah. So like a single arms worth of a tight gambeson that can double as a reach weapon later on in a grappling match. This actually makes way more sense than what I had initially pictured. I had pictured the cloak more draped over the arm than wrapped tightly. Looking at the effectiveness of a gambeson to stop cuts, and then knowing they could dump breaths into it to make it shard resistant actually helps the visualization way more. Less of a matador getting ready for a bullfight (how I initially pictured it) and more of a dog training sleeve for bite protection and parrying (how I think the visualization makes more sense). The effectiveness of the gambeson through history really makes this style seem way more efficient and effective. What is even more fun about using it as potential armor and parrying tool is that you don't actually have to wrap it yourself. You can simply have the cloak or cloths do the work for you. Now I picture awakeners like a sort of Gaara with ribbons and bands of cloth that are capable of wrapping and warping around themselves to offer protection and attacks when needed.

Kaladin sees Azure fighting with her cloak around her arm. In my mind I always pictured a shield but I am not convinced an awakened cloak could make a decent one... if she were an stoneward I would for sure assume that was it. As an awakener what do you suppose she was actually doing with that? Is it a new command or was it more of a strengthen this.. or even used to grab and parry enemy strikes? I really need to reread that section again.

Do you suppose Vivennas blade has a similar life sense?

I never thought about that quote before but now I am really curious.... Vivenna didn't know nightblood was there but he knew she was... she was close enough he could call to her specifically and I imagine he didn't call out into anyone else in that crowds mind either.

However we also know that lifesense senses people who never had any breath at all due to higher any levels of innate investiture at all basically. Kaladin was mistaken for having a hightening at one point and I personally think that was because as he progresses through oaths there is more innate investiture in himself anyways. This is kind of what I thought. More specifically now I am curious if a lifeless would be sensed by life sense or by the 7th heightening being treated as an object more than a person.

I feel like 7th heightening should be able to sense far more than just awakened objects... but I am trying to figure out what it is doing and what it could sense. If it is sensing the investiture in a non living thing placed there by a living thing... then can't metalminds be detected? Would lifeless count as something that can be felt by someone of the 7th heightening in a manner similar to how life sense works for living folks? Would it sense any highly invested object? Things that have been effected by surges? Aethers? I know the whole "spill light on the floor using surge X Y or Z to create an impossible obstacle." Would the 7th heightening sense that Kaladin just poured stormlight onto his shield? What about infused vs dun gems?

I love Epee! Foil was fun when I dabbled in it but I just found the target area to be too restrictive. After a lot of kali and stick fighting I like having the entire body as a target. Use your longest weapon against your closest target. Lots of wacking hands and shins if you can. Off line attacks and less trying to maim or kill but just destroy their ability to keep fighting. Ironically that is exactly how I enjoy envisioning shardbearer fights... a few slaps against your opponents hands or shins to stop them from advancing. Epee is so annoying to fight against. Although my biggest issue with fencing has always been the suicidal tendencies of some strikes... scoring touches where you get a point because you touched their foot 0.1 seconds faster than they slapped your neck feels wrong haha. So I can feel the irritation against epee haha.

I fenced more saber and epee and it was a blast. I couldn't keep it up outside of school as it is a pricey hobby if you don't have access to the equipment. I bet more HEMA style fencing is even more enjoyable. Its a great way to train footwork. I also really liked that Bruce Lee nodded to fencing for its footwork, distance control and lines of attack.

I would point out 2 things. 1. Shardblades are much lighter than they appear. Usually weighing what a long sword would have weighed. They aren't koloss swords or a buster sword or anything. 2. Most of the shardblade stances and swings have little force behind them because they have magical cutting edges and the force was very rarely needed. Similar to the watermelon in this video I think that the wooden shield encapsulated in the aluminum will hold up rather well. You don't need an inch thick coating even if it breaks under the aluminum coating it will function for a good while longer than a heavier and bulkier half shard. Half shards use investiture to block investiture. Same thing with metalminds... as the investiture gets destroyed by the shardblade the object gets destroyed... Aluminum is different. It doesn't resist with a limited amount of investiture. It turns the shardblade into just a sword. And even wooden shields did a really good job at stopping swords. Put the metal all around it and you get the best of both worlds. I like the idea of using wood because aluminum is just a bit too soft for me to like it as a shield of its own. Coating a harder object and clinging to it like we see with the watermelon would be better than one or the other on its own. Halfshards were an awesome invention in the absence of noone on roshar knowing about aluminum. As aluminum gets popular and more widespread knowledge it will make halfshards obsolete.

Exactly. No magical cutting power but it is still a sword. Aluminum that is flush with a shield and even exists deep down into the grain of the wood would only need to be a few millimeters thick to do the job. The wooden shield would give it support and structure and it would give the resistance to the magical cutting power.

Depends how thick the aluminum is. The magical cutting of a shardblade is 100% nullified by aluminum. So long as the aluminum is thick enough to not be cut through by the blades edge and weight of the swing then it will resist it indefinitely. Hence I vote for a wax coating... or even wax coatings and then soulcast the wax into aluminum. It is flush against the wood and would offer tremendous support. Like spraying that flex seal over an egg... even if the egg inside gets destroyed... so long as that same mass exists inside of the sealed portion it should offer the aluminum around it the bones to stay in shape. You could go straight for a fully aluminum shield but I think a wooden shield with aluminum coating would offer more protection against blunt weapons as well as the shards.

With the exception of lightweavers and else callers. What is better and far easier to produce than a half shard? Take a wooden shield and dip it in wax. The wax will not only coat the entire shield but also bind and hold better into the tiny textured grain of the wood... then soulcast the wax coating into aluminum... While at the tower they could make a legit production line of soulcasters who will never run out of stormlight. You could have the entire army outfitted with them in a week.

I think I always assumed that you were storing the strength itself. Which comes with no size increase. The only real WoB I can find about it says compounding is easier but you can't escape a need for hypertrophy with normal feeuchemical strength tapped at bonkers levels. If you want to toss a big 1400lb armored opponent I think you will be facing an increase in mass no matter your body composition through feruchemy alone, even compounded. The benefit to storing pewter would really shine for that lack of mass gain altogether. Although I don't know how it would happen. There is a difference between storing the strength gained by pewter and the strength of the pewter. I speculate that the magical enhancement to strength from pewter would need to be stored in a separate metalmind just like different senses and connections etc. I do, however, agree with your original premise of this topic. I am sure that if your muscles were trained in a manner to focus on strength gain with minimal hypertrophic effects you would also have less % mass increase with strength gain. We don't really know how strong Sazed was as he was jacked nearly to the point of immobility. But any training to allow your muscles to maximize their efforts would help in this regard. If you want an interesting comparison then you should check out the lb for lb deadlift world record vs the world record for what was simply the heaviest deadlift. Eventually I think mass is a must no matter what. The other thing I find interesting about F pewter is that it is insanely dependent on the frame of the user how much max usage you can get.

Personally, I believe this is the change in muscle that A pewter effects. Hence the ability for it to store better. Although thinking about the difference in storing weight... if Wax weighs 200lbs he can store over 6 million lbs in a day vs a 100lbs storing the same % and having far less potential effect. I wonder if the iron metalminds get filled twice as far or if their storage is based on the % of an attribute stored more than the actual attribute itself? Would A pewter store twice the strength into a metalmind or is there a numerical value there? If you can bench 200lbs and wanted to store half your strength it would just be storing the ability to bench 100lbs. If you burn pewter and can normally bench 400-600lbs with the same physique (an increase of 200-400 additional lbs), and wanted to just store the a pewter strength would it store as you doubling or tripling any lift from there or would it store as you being able to bench another 200-400lbs? I assume a pewter strength has to be stored on a separate metalmind. When tapping it in conjunction with a typical pewtermind how does it work? Say I am tapping 100% additional strength so I can now bench 400 and then I tap my A pewter storage. Am I able to bench 600-800 (the 400 from myself and the pewtermind plus the ability to lift an additional 200-400lbs from stored a pewter) or am I able to bench 800-1200 (the 400 from myself and the pewtermind plus the ability to lift an additional 2-3x from A pewter). This becomes more insane when you actually burn pewter as well. Say flare it for 3x more gain. Is it just an additional 600lbs from that base 200lb bench for a total of 1200-1400lbs? Or is it going to multiply my power by 3 from what it is? Allowing a 2400-3600lbs? Either way I can easily see how a pewter compounder utilizing different muscle types of storage could toss someone in some magical armor weighing 1400lbs.

The only think I really think it lacks is leeching. Depending on who you are fighting in the cosmere as a whole I think that A chromium may be one of, if not the single most, best powers in the possible tool kit. It's about aiding someone to stay dead. But that is so insanely cosmere specific and further specific to only a tiny tiny % of possible opponents. Although it would come with other perks too right? If fortune is more like a precog sort of buff it could be that either set of powers combined with double chromium could be the most busted thing in the cosmere. In the MAG it so happens that chromium simply grants rerolls which is awesome, however you want to flavor it... be it luck or a bonus to just feeling like something should be done this way vs that... it is extremely powerful and could make either choice dangerously effective.