Tamriel Wolfsbaine

This is how I had always viewed it. I saw another post where someone said something along the lines of "plate doesn't give +20 to strength it just sets strength to 20." I agreed with that thought though 20 is a lowball answer. I really like this point. Pewter may not add more speed with plate than without it. But the benefit to pewter in plate is that the user would never feel fatigue so long as they have pewter to spare. The strength benefits of pewter likely not shine through plate (perhaps with duralumin it could) As for F pewter I sort of think the plate would limit it as well since it would be harder to swell up and gain the bulk.

Do any other enhancements help shardplate? Or does Shardplate operate at its own peak always only? I see shardplate being over half a ton as a really neat thing but I don't know if that would limit its capabilities? The power in the shardplate is what allows it to do what it does right? Without the leggings you couldn't move just wearing the upperhalf most likely. So I wonder where plate negates other abilities and where it doesn't. Arm wrestling plate only vs a pewterarm in plate vs brute ferring in plate? When Dalinar is racing in Way of Kings... if one of the plate wearing contestants were also a pewter arm or steel runner would they have an advantage? Could a plate wearing iron ferrings tap a few thousand pounds and the plate be enough to support the weight and allow them to move and fight as usual? I imagine dead plate would cut off all lines and thus steel and iron allomancy would be useless in it. It likely would also block the emotional metals as it protects the user so long as they have the helm on. Would you still be able to see atium shadows from inside of plate?

I like that you point out that Ham was front lines against Koloss armies. One hit and you are dead regardless of if it is a shardblade or a koloss blade. I know that shardbearers may be quicker and even stronger than Koloss but a 12 foot koloss swinging a koloss blade is probably at an even better reach advantage than a shardbearer as well. And Ham had to dance between those reach advantages while facing 1 hit kills without flying or atium or even some 6th sense telling him what was coming. I think this is a fair estimation of what it means to say that pewter has enhanced reactionspeed as well. Take that and pair it with any kind of 6th sense and it would be off the charts. I think that Kaladin in the area at the 2nd oath and Kaladin vs a shardbearer years earlier before Syl even proved to be more than a pesky windspren are two very different people with very different skill sets. If Kal was able to do it before he knew about syl and any access to stormlight I think an enhanced Ham would do fine. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one I think. Kaladin may have been using stormlight in tiny amounts at that time but I don't think he was dancing around that blade effortlessly.

I sort of cheated. Had a friend tell me about the Metallic Arts and read the mistborn trilogy that week back in 2011. Then a few years later after getting my whole family to read it, I heard about how he was doing some cameos from book to book hidden in them... Then I cheated. Googled the word worldhopper found the name Hoid and discovered the 17th shard and coppermind. It drove me to read Warbreaker which is my favorite now, and then dabble into Stormlight. I am a sucker for the worldhoppers and if it wasn't for their appearances on Roshar (mainly Vasher) I probably wouldn't keep reading that series. So long story short. I cheated and the only way I can say I stumbled upon it organically is that one of my pals who reads them mentioned a character who is "collecting stories from each world". So that was my big hint. It wasn't super difficult to figure out past that.

Body- Tensoon Skillset- Vasher Powerset- Vin at the end of HoA just before Ascension. Item- a soulcaster with garnet, amethyst, and emerald or heliodor (depending which is best for food production) to create a boatload of silver projectiles and provisions. I really wanted to take a Kandra with feruchemy as well but the feruchemists we have seen on screen know nothing of the best metals. A feruchemist with all 16 is probably the best survival build out there. Not sure if kandra are allowed as they technically are a powerset but I would make the same argument for a Returned which is used. I also made an assumption that I will have access to stormlight often enough for the soulcaster to work as no stormlight also kills the radiants minus bondsmith with the ability to open perpendicularities. Question about shades... as I have never read the book. Do you think bronze would hear them? Would copper help to hide oneself from them? Vin with a soulcaster and a silver koloss blade and silver coins/ ball bearings could probably last a while there i think... I honestly don't know though.

Awesome. Thanks for these.

Ah. So can you take a soulcaster base and have a boatload of gems and swap them out to use whatever essence you want? Or does each soulcaster limit you to the essence it was made for only and you are limited to using those associated gems only but can change them out for more of the same. Limiting you to the soulcaster you have but allowing wealth to determine the amount of use?

Using the fabrial soulcasters costs stormlight. Do we know how much they can soulcast with one of them? Does the soulcaster only get the stormlight that the 3 main gems it holds gives? Or can you fuel a soulcasting fabrial with other gems? Basically is a broke joke with a soulcaster and no extra spheres able to soulcast the same volume as someone with a soulcaster who has access to a wealth of infused spheres? If you can use other spheres to soulcast with the soulcaster then does that make single essence soulcasters the lesser of the possibilities? Or does the advantage of a soulcaster with 3 of the same gems come from being able to soulcast 3x as much per highstorm? Which is more valuable a soulcaster with more of one gem or 3 seperate gems?

Your case for Wax and Wayne jump is interesting but I think Iron screws with it a lot more. Momentum is conserved thus tapping a massive weight and duralumin pushing would build a TON of momentum... then shedding that weight would actually cause you to accelerate as well while flying. If I remember correctly the support beams bent in as well. Any crumple in the structure being pushed off means there was even more initial energy that was lost in that push as well. The only reason I want to blame Iron for the feat instead of duralumin steel is because it seems more consistent with what we have seen outside of Vin running on the mists and ascending. The conservation of momentum seems more viable as in theory every time you half the weight you double the speed. We know Wax can store millions of pounds worth of his own weight to use. In fact if Wax is 180lbs and stores 33% of that all the time then he is storing 59lbs all the time. Lets round it out to 60lbs. If Wax stores 60lbs per second for 18 hours a day he stores 3,888,000 lbs for use later. Tapping that much... if you have the anchors to make a push and get airborne (which duralumin with steel could do) you would take off with so much momentum and it would carry you further than a high velocity alone. That thought is just to say that I don't think Wax's jump accurately shows what could happen to a bullet. Wax can hack and gain speed after the push is over with thanks to his iron feruchemy. The bullet can't. And there is only so much of a push that you can do on a bullet before it is beyond your ability to push it more. Where Wax could still be manipulating his jump well outside of steel pushing range.

Do we have anything to substantiate atium? I believe he likely had some stormlight in his system without realizing it. I don't think I remember anything stating atium like future sight. Stormlight perfects you. Pewter enhances you. I will concede with nothing to block the blade a single block or parry action would be death to a pewterarm. But Ham vs Kal when beating the shardbearer goes to Ham anytime.

That sounds pretty legit as well a few spores carried into them that way. I wonder how big spores actually are? Other aether related thoughts. Would midnight essence be able to be turned into a swarm of insects? I feel like the midnight essence creations have some ability to act on their own but would a swarm of midnight aether bugs released from an aetherbound be able to be directed and controlled to any workable extent?

I get that. It still stands that metalborn are not flamboyant in their mere existance. Shardplate and shardblades stand out immediately. Shardblades scream danger no matter what. Shardplate screams tank no matter what. Allomancers and metalborn whisper of ordinary and mundane. To supposed that a shardbearer would know of their opponents abilities because the opponent knows how dangerous the shardbearer is just seems disingenuous. We all know that the shardbearer is a dangerous individual. Like armies unto themselves. Why should we assume they can look upon and unarmored individual and place netting to stop bugs in their visor thanks to knowing the opponent. They may be apprehensive seeing someone stepping up to fight them without shards of their own. But there is nothing about awakeners (minus an aura that nearly noone notices on Zahel for 4 books) or metalborn that would give away the fact that they may be dangerous. A shardbearer is a walking talking warning sign of caution and danger.

I don't think it takes a bunch of knowledge and understanding of a shardbearers powers to understand that you can't just stab them and bash them to death. An allomancer will know something is wrong immediately when a big armored and massive blade wielding opponent shows up but the blue lines don't. There doesn't need to be the word shard in front only plate to know that you should only target the open spots. Only Hollywood thinks someone in full plate can be treated like someone not in full plate. To assume that if someone knows they can't stab through or break plate due to more knowledge and not the fact that the shardbeaer is wearing armor is silly. To compare it to the shardbearer knowing that an awakener will choose to use a swarm of insects is kind of laughable. Anyone who sees someone in full plate armor, magical or not, is going to know that they can't win this fight traditionally. If you are an awakener you treat that fight differently whether you know about shards or not. A person in full plate can't just look at an awakener and know what they have. Assuming they know the oppositions strengths weaknesses and tactics when you are comparing a 100% visible and 100% relatable tank of the times to someone who has no armor and may or may not even carry a weapon is silly. The shardbearer screams danger and hard to kill from all angles. Awakeners and mistborn are sleeper builds with very little to give away what they can and cannot do. Its totally apples to oranges thinking they should be on the same level of knowledge ahead of time.

Yeah I was assuming being one of his personal Kandra you wouldn't be bound to the contract. He would use you in a unique way and you would have no rules other than to fulfill the mission. I don't know what that would be. I like the variety in options. I am a believer in the blessing of presence no matter the mission. If I have other spikes available to me I figure there are other options for boosting strength. Allomantic pewter would be a hard one to pass up for conflict resolution as well as Feruchemical bendalloy. Honestly I feel like those 2 would make an already difficult beast to kill nearly impossible. Bendalloy gets to double dip and act similar to gold for kandra. You lose a limb? Just tap a bunch of food and grow it back before your enemies eyes... but what about bones... I think the 3rd spike would have to be something that can grow or act in for bones. I honestly don't know if atium can steal anything that would work for that but if aetherbinding could be stolen any of the more solid aethers would be perfect for building a skeleton on the go. Especially with bendalloy. If I couldn't steal anything to make bones I might have to go with a divine breath and replace bendalloy for either F duralumin or A copper depending on which one can best be used to cover and hide the biochromatic aura. 5th heightening passive effects are just so good and all of that investiture would make you highly resistant to invested attacks. Edit: and naturally I would want an aluminum truebody. I think truebody option would be open for this character. Don't limit yourself to just a truebody but nothing beats a harder aluminum alloy that can stop shardsblades...

I still think the lifeless insects are viable. If an awakener were to show up equipped for a fight they could unleash the insects. If you had a hundred flying ants attacking eyes and ears solely then you would take care of the honor guard as well as the shardbearer. Walk in as they work themselves into a frenzy, which they will. And then clean up with an awakened rope dart or meteor hammer. The helmet will come off once those ants make it into eyes and ear canals and then the ropes can easily pick the shardbearer apart. Honestly I love this idea of Awakening insects so much @alder24. I have now envisioned a new character collecting powers and items. An emotional allomancer with a small swarm of soulcast and then awakened flying ants. I really don't even care if they can inject venom after being soulcast or if it takes extra breath to make the wings work after being soulcast. I don't think it is a huge leap to say a winged ant can fly with extra breath after being turned to metal, stone or diamond if a man soulcast to stone can get working joints and operate as an indestructible lifeless. Side question on the swarm. Does anyone think that midnight essence aetherbound could control a swarm of midnight essence to a similar effect? Bonus to that is the spy aspects of making a midnight essence insect and flying into rooms and listening / viewing what is in them via the connection to the essence. Another one that would do great would be a mistborn. Drop down into the group and shove them all away. Even if they drop their weapons and come at you afterwords they will all die to the mistborn quickly. Getting the shardbearer dead is the hard part of that set up.... although I think a mistborn can do plenty. A full feruchemist could clear the area with ease thanks to steel. A steel compounder would have everyone dead and a knife in the eye slit before the shardbearer realizes they should defend themselves. As strong as shardbearers are compared to normal soldiers, when facing prepared invested entities they are still pretty low on the totem pole. And most invested individuals beyond some of the mundane misting and ferrings are going to make short work of a squad. The least amount of investiture needed to secure a set of shards I would guess is a steel ferring with a ton of storage... and I mean a ton. If there were a rating I would say this is either equal to or better than an atium misting with a bead or two for the fight. Ramping it up past that you have a host of twinborn combos that could... really anything that includes F steel. The amount of breaths you would have to spend for 100 flying ants to become your swarm plus a cloak to protect you and a few ropes to attack I would say is more attainable than being born a mistborn or feruchemist... but it is still costly costly. But someone past the 3rd heightening I bet could do it with the swarm idea.

Also, and this may be less of a point. Can we really say how much weight a massive beast is when we know they are bound to a spren to make them lighter? Rosharans haven't even convinced a chasm fiend onto a scale to weigh it and get measurements. They only have dead weight to consider. Not saying it wasn't impressive to catch it. Also not saying that Dalinar may have pulled on a one time feat being close to oaths the same way Kal did when killing a shardbearer.

Rashek is making a new kandra to send out into the cosmere... you. He has all 4 blessings to choose from as well as bonus atium spikes collected from across the cosmere. What blessing would you hope he creates you with and which power fueled spikes would you choose as a bonus? You can have a maximum of 4 spikes before Ruin is knocking at the door of your mind threatening to take full control. Blessings only count as 1 spike for that. What would you choose? All powers that are harvestable via atium are available and each spike contains only 1 bonus power.

It is a unique synergy for sure. Jumping from one shadow to the next to avoid dying is probably a great idea to avoid dying. It doesn't change the fact that all of your shadows will continue to multiply and move around as you make decisions. But if there are 20 safe shadows to step into at any time then you should be able to think through it just fine. And you would probably be able to juggle that with taking note of where your enemy is as well. It would be as confusing and discombobulated as fighting atium vs atium except you would not need to guess if you survive. Although... like a road trip every choice you make will narrow down the outcome more and more. When running through a minefield you may not realize your safe shadow has suddenly become the one that took the last step. There could be a safe shadow that suddenly erupts into no safe shadows. A gamble still the same.

Without digging up some old threads there were some WoBs sighted by others suggesting that you can't punch harder with iron. I personally think that there has to be some bonus but we haven't seen it used optimally. A big part of it is that as you tap weight you may gain the strength to not get crushed by it but you don't gain the strength to move the same. You get more sluggish and slow. In combination this could potentially do more as you would maintain higher speeds and higher weight combined. But we have these. Feruchemy breaks a ton of rules. And it is kind of very inconsistent on the page. Iron especially is impossible to find out. He says the math is out there but we won't see it for a very very long time.

That is the purpose of the atium vs atium showdown. Once two people can see the future their decision making process changes which changes the future for the other one. Electrum works on this same idea. As soon as you see your own future, the atium user suddenly sees a flood of shadows as well. With that understanding, looking at another person's future via atium only shows you 1 outcome because they can't see the future at all. Seeing your own future shows you all of the potential futures. I don't know if determination or zinc would help more to narrow it down to the fewest shadows. I imagine that zinc may cause more shadows to appear as you make decisions faster but you will keep up with it to a great extent. The real goal here would be attempting to sift through the beneficial futures vs the non beneficial ones. All that said, I have never really subscribed to the Feruchemical zinc Allomantic electrum bandwagon for this reason. I feel like the more you think and process your future the more likely you are to flood your brain and vision with more shadows. In fact we see Vin defeat atium, not by over thinking it, but by under thinking it. Waiting and refusing to allow her mind to make a decision until the last second allows her to get an edge. The entire purpose of zinc is to think faster to get an edge, which is contrary to the best example of using wits to beat future sight we have. I think zinc would pair far better with pewter and steel for any combat applications. F steel beats atium when tapped seriously on its own anyways. Doesn't matter if you can see the future when your opponent can temporarily break the sound barrier.

A case where tapping pain via F tin might prove useful to remind the savant they are still mortal. I love the pewter steel combo. (Especially on a kandra platform!) I mostly mentioned the combo as an alternative to the full feruchemist using steel and iron. I have seen a lot of cased made saying you can't hit harder with any kind of feruchemy other than pewter which breaks my heart. As much as it is one of my favorite systems I think you can tell that it was one of Brandon's early systems just because he has had to play some damage control on the outrageous potential of some of those physical metals. I will never understand how someone weighing 2000 lbs can sit on you and recieve all of the benefits of being 2000lbs but they can't hit harder with a punch. Same with steel. The MAG has a Brandon's thought stating that hitting someone with a bar at high speed would likely break your hands as you hold it... but then other wobs suggest that the gained kinetic energy would be way too minimal to really matter. I feel like he wants Feruchemy to be steel for faster movement but not if you have a weapon, iron for bonus to pushes and pulls and just to be massive unless it will benefit your throwing hands in which case the spiritual realm eats it up. Yet... I feel like maybe there are a lot of uses that typical users don't see. Perhaps the reason we don't see anyone punch or hit harder on screen is because they haven't had specific intent to do so? This is a good question. I would draw the line at this idea... what are you trying to effect? Wax can't push on plate but he could slap a coin against plate, tap thousands of pounds pushing on that coin, flatten it against the plate and the shardbearer would tumble through the air. You can't lash plate itself but you can hit it with a rock that has been lashed. So you couldn't make the plate slick directly but slicking up the floor should work really well at making an impossible zone for plate.

I feel like the only downside to it is that savantism would be that much closer and pewterarms just happen to die younger than other savants haha.

I am always a huge fan of that imagery. There have been a lot of theories explaining that something in the realmatics with feruchemy would shed the kinetic energy gains from increased weight and speed though. Honestly why I am more a fan of F steel with A pewter as the A pewter kinetic energy gains from boosted speed and strength are what it exists for and F steel would allow you to maximize the gains by compressing them into shorter time (metal burns faster when tapping steel and more metal tapped means more power gained). The additional benefits of an A pewter F steel combo are that you also get the durability boost from pewter and would be far less likely to break anything leading to a need of gold healing anyways.

Considering plate weighs like 1200lbs or whatever I agree. A single broken leg would do far more in a fight that you expect to last a while than cracking the breastplate. Give a pewterarm a dead blade and I would bet on them in more arena fights than I would be against them for sure.

Thanks for this. I need the help because I have wasted hours upon hours reading and searching. This will save me so much time.