DoctaDajman

But isnt that the point of passive? That it consumes no voidlight? From the coppermind. I definately agree that becoming a radiant would be more powerful. I was just thinking that this free use of the surge would be perfect for going to anywhere else in the cosmere and not needing to worry about carrying anything other than high caloric foods on trips. Would I love access to voidlight or some other way to actively soulcast that which is outside of the body? Sure but even just being able to turn your 3rd 4th and 5th plates at a buffet into aluminum and wipe that stomach clean of all those calories would be pretty dope. This could be extra potent for a compounder of any kind as well. Being able to soulcast food into metal... store a few moments and then burn it and store that into legit metalminds afterwords.

If a mistborn were spiked with the power of one of The Altered One's then I assume they would gain the passive ability. Even if they couldn't soulcast anything that wasn't piercing them or outside of their body this power would be incredible as an allomancer. Imagine being able to eat a bite of food and enjoy the taste only to swallow it and soulcast it into an allomantic metal. Your second plate of food could be strictly to reload a massive amount of allomantic metals and a single chunk of soulcast aluminum could be used to cleanse it at the end of each day before any sort of poisoning could take place. With how expensive bendalloy is shown to be and other hard to aquire metals this could be the winningest winner way of keeping ones self always burning and safe from suffering as a savant who cant get their fix... And if you get stabbed you can instantly turn the weapon into smoke as it first pierces your skin. Harvesting this spike may be difficult though.

Does the cognitive realm then acclimated the traveler through it? Is there a gradual increase in the cognitive vs physical? Honestly if this isn't hit on in some way I will be disappointed. Brandon does amazing world building and magic building. But if investiture and cognitive realm travel make the differences negligible then the fact that they exist at all is a waste of world building efforts. It would be like saying parshendi have carapace in WOBs but never mentioning it in the books as a challenge humans have to overcome.

I would say they would have to adjust to it. A world hopper who gets into Scadrial will probably have a little while feeling like total garbage and have to acclimate. Even with stormlight keeping them alive I think they would still find themselves weaker than the average Scadrian. Stormlight doesnt give strength so much as it heals your body so quickly that it can push itself to 100% capacity where the average person uses like 70% of it thanks to the Body preserving itself. Being able to instantly heal through tears and rips really allows an increase of strength but it isn't more than just perfecting what that person can do if their mind would allow it. But I think it would be a little like the issues I see with people building portals from sea level to the top of everest. They should technically throw massive air emboli.

It would be straight up terrifying if Nightblood learned how to take the investiture hidden inside of himself, or that of the user, and convert it to replicate F steel.

I'm wondering if the breaths would have been as sticky as we see with nightblood and shasharas blade had they been put into something like a steel cable with similar commands to how ropes are used. My guess would be that you would be able to retrieve them just as well. But I think that makes a big difference in whether or not I would choose to awaken cable at all.

Not normally. It requires the 9th heightening which makes it anything but normal. I do think that different metals would probably act in different ways. It takes a lot more breaths to convince any object to work in ways that it can't feasibly work on its own. We know of 2 swords that were awakened and a bunch of rocks. I personally think there is a difference between how each of these works but I have no time to look up WoBs to substantiate it. I really think there is a lot more breaths given to make something do something that is less natural to what its typical use is. Ropes and cloth are made for wrapping stuff up. Adding blood or shaping them to look like a human makes them less costly to awaken for intents that are human like. These are not super sticky and you can recall that breath with ease. Making swords do things makes them more sentient because there is no way to make a sword destroy something on its own... I think this is why you end up with items gaining sentience it is the breaths way of trying to force the item into a state where it can fulfill its command. That said, when you have something that is flexible and meldable similarly to steel cable I think you could easily find yourself with something capable of performing the actions of simpler commands while also being metallic and having all of those benefits. The fact that steel cable can move and act the same as rope makes me think it would be easier for the breaths to get it to do what is needed. Of course the settings we have seen awakeners in so far have been far enough back that steel cable wasnt really a thing. We know that awakening helps with technology a lot more. How its is being used by anyone less than the 9th heightening I find intriguing but I think there are tablets, locks, and computers that are awakened in future cosmere books. The real benefits to steel cable over ropes and straps is that you can move a lot more weight with less bulk I would think. There is an obvious cutoff where the thickness of ropes or cables would make them less capable of the dexterity needed to be awakened to act as extra long arms for lifting things... but until those break points steel is just the winner for its strength in my opinion. I am fascinated in the braiding of rope and steel cables. You untwist the ends and you can simulate fingers and hands which would make it even more breath efficient because it is closer to human. Obviously steel is further than organic items but maybe weaving in some hair or blood and braiding it to resemble the shape of a man (2 legs 2 arms and a head with a thickly braided spinal column connecting them) would help it work more like typical Awakenings.

I always think of the enhancement metals as being single use bursts. But the metalborn doesnt really burn through those metals instantly (aluminum perhaps). So a primer cube with minutes and minutes of burning chromium being tossed probably would continuously leech for that same time right? We didn't see Wax try to drink down more steel but I imagine a primer cube could wipe reserves as often as the enemy tried to breath or ingest more fuel right? What do you suppose happens to the stormlight in a sack full of gems if a leecher were to burn chromium while touching them? Knowing that primer cubes removes the touch requirement.

I guess my meaning was that suppressor fabrials would not do anything against the weapons of Scadrial. I do think that primer cubes are a huge issue for anyone fighting Scadrial to overcome. Roshar is just learning about anti investitue and parts of Scadrial have known about it since aluminum became a thing. Harmonium cubes plus a leecher or aluminum gnat are worth a lot. I think the trick will be programming the cubes to pulse in a way. Every 1 second for 30 seconds wipe everyones investiture. I even believe there is something about how radiants cant summon shardblades when being leeched. If something like that could be rigged to short circuit the shardplate of a radiant it would be all over.

I am unsure how much information the ghostbloods got about suppressor fabrials. I think that is just one more thing that Scadrial has as far as a leg up... intel. A ton of it. If only there was a fabrial to suppress the long ranged weaponry of the metalborn. When you have spearmen with 7ft long pointy sticks running headlong into a camp of rifleman who are capable of ending them from 300+ yards... suppressing the metallic arts isn't going to do a whole lot to help you. A bit like the movie The Last Samuri. Scadrial sets up a few rotary guns and the only hope your army has is the radiants. So really Roshar has a small handful of magically armored personnel to try to take on a planets worth of firepower and magic users. And it is totally possible that Kelsier has gathered the intel needed to know about anti lights.

I agree that the medallions will have limitations. I dont even believe we saw them be used as true metalminds with storing and withdrawing. They seemed to be one way or another usage wise for the most part. The bands of mourning dont seem to have the same limits you are describing. If they can be multiplied via the compounding of all 32 powers they hold then there is little reason why they couldn't be duplicated. While I dont want to see everyone become fullborn its kind of like the cryptonians all coming and fighting against superman right? Just gods fighting it out. I dont share the same worries though. I think the amount of powers allowable js a pretty decent limiting factor. And I think it was hinted at in bands of mourning that beyond 3 in a medallion was asking for trouble. Either way, being a natural born metalborn is awesome and efficiency is a big deal. But the things I am.most excited for on scadrial is magitech becoming more common and the entire population progressing towards living lives blessed by magic even though the bloodline is weaker. But to each their own in terms of what they want to see. I am just a big fan of everyone having access to life altering abilities. It would be storied driven by the combinations possible that are fun and each combo would still offer unique, arguably more so than being limited to naturally born users, possibilities.

I give it to the side with trellium bombs and guns. You really have 2 very different groups of folks. The basic Rosharan soldier stands no chance against the typical Scadrian, but the average magic user from Roshar is far stronger than the average metalborn. And if the ghostbloods ever crack the secret to using stormlight as investiture then whats stopping all metalborn from becoming natural leeches by breathing in stormlight carried by the radiants? Zahel figured it out. And that is exactly why the ghostbloods were there. Stormlight being portable is just as adventageous to anyone who knows how to breath it in as it is to the radiants who may carry it. Aluminum bullets and leeching cubes play a large role here as well. None of that is to mention that Roshar would be stepping onto a planet with 143% the amount of gravity they are used to and 70% the oxygen they are used to breathing. Their bodies would literally revolt against them as they enter the different physical world. Meanwhile if Scadrians showed up on Roshar they would find themselves suddenly stronger than what they have ever needed to be before and they would all be getting the equivalent of 4lpm of supplemental oxygen difference in what they are breathing. Rosharans coming to scadrial turns a well trained soldier into a geriatric COPD patient. Scadrians invading Roshar turn from a well trained soldier into a blood doping Captain America. Plus Scadrial has guns and bombs and leeching. The only edge Roshar has in this conflict is that the Tower exists and an invading force can never truly destroy them (although I think we can see what could happen by simply trapping their magic users and making them obsolete). A unified Scadrial would also mean that Kelsier, who is not a shard, would probably give up the secret to making more.bands of mourning. Then you would end up with blood doping super soldiers who have limited fullborn abilities which ends really bad. However there is always the answer "elsecaller waves hand and soulcasts a block of aluminum over everyone's head" or "bondsmith opens a connection between the army of fullborn and their metalminds draining all investiture instantly". But they still have bombs and guns. Side question: Can a bomb destroy a perpendiculatiry?

Oh absolutely it will have more effective uses than just this. I just liked the demonstration of just how effective 5000 psi being released in a second could be. A backpack of sand and a tube blowing past it would probably make a far more effective weapon than this at more range anyways.

Zephyr is dope. That is all.

I would say a large part of why breaths seem to be so costly to use for awakening is because you are literally making an inanimate object act on its own. That take a bunch of Investiture. We have seen kinetic Investiture do some really wild stuff but making a completely inanimate object behave as if it has intention to do something it was never meant to do takes a lot. Not to mention you are working on that object in a different way. If a windrunner or coinshot wants to shoot an object forward they are using magic directly on the object to make it move. Like throwing it. An awakener can launch a rock with devastating results... in fact they used to be walking talking siege engines with some rope, breath, and boulders. But the way they throw the object is by making another object be so invested that it can precieve its command and the world around it. How does the cloak know where the arrows are? Because it has so much innate investiture it gains invested sight of sorts! Without which it would be unable to fulfill its command. A lashing on a rock doesnt require any of that. Just raw magic. The rope that throws the rock once it is loaded up with breaths is closer to a human than it is the rock itself. That is why Vasher has his list of invested object types. To quantify the scale they exist on. While awakening is unremarkable in terms of raw power as the other invested arts, there is something so beautiful about that final scene where the banners and tapestries come to life at a ranged command and take out an entire squad of people before they can process what is happening. The ground turning white instead of the gray is just the icing on the cake, especially paired with his aura throwing off a prism of colors off of whites specifically. Give that man gold compounding and I dare say you have a contender for top 3 scariest nonshards in the Cosmere easily.

Yeah it is impossible to say who would be there and what power sets they may carry nor how the investiture would work in that case. In the hunger games there is incentive to getting your district to win more often than others. So if it is one person pulled from each planet at random with 2 weeks to prepare as they go I would vote that Nalthis wins the vast majority of these games. The Nalthians would likely treat the chosen individual in a way that they may endow that person with a good store of breaths before they leave. If Nalthis can pull together a 25,000 breath store each year (it could be given back to the leader of the nation or whatever after) then that contestant would be able to arrive and ranged command every other contestant into nonexistance via strangulation before anyone makes it to the cornucopia. But this is strictly how I think a society would handle it. Scadrial could gather a collection of spikes to pass from contestant to contestant as well and almost promise that they arrive with spikes acting as metalminds filled to use as well. But again how do the rules set things up? Nalthians and innate investiture just act differently and its impossible to really make any magic based rules that dont either make or break them in this. And the way heightenings work... a 9th or 10th heightening awakener could be made and trained in a moment of minutes following the announcement of who is chosen. If Scadrial created a full blown inquisitor everytime a person got chosen that would be terrifying as well. I mean steel blitz and pewter strength could make quick work of the awakener. Although your inquisitor would be forced to fight through their clothing trying to tie them up and murder them. Granted... if the awakener can pull off Vashers trick it may give them the moment needed to off even an inquisitor.

If it was structured on a random draw basis, and each planet were its own version of a district, I would say the majority of wins would go to Scadrial just because they are the most likely to be powered even if it is considered a weaker power. Other things to take into consideration would be what planet the fight is on and if the participants are all acclimated to the different gravity and air composition. Rosharans will be at a large disadvantage on any other planet just because they are used to being pampered by low gravity and higher concentration of O2. POV characters would make this different of course. And there is no guidance on investiture usage and fuel opportunities. If they go out naked and have no access to immediate fuel except for their innate investiture you have to tip your hat to Nalthians. They will all have at least 1 breath to go on and they are elevated at a baseline over everyone else in the cosmere without needing external sources of Investiture or metal. In fact... I may have to change my thoughts originally. Nalthis could be a strong running for the most wins on average year after year. You could be gifted other breaths from your community and have a serious advantage right from the start. If the players all started with only the clothes on their back, and weren't Hoid, but had to race for metals or stormlight then the Godking bodies them all as his investiture is innate and he can simply ranged& silently command all clothing to crush the others before they make it to their fuel for kinetic investiture use. In before bondsmith using no investiture to open a perpendicularity and suddenly have infinite investiture. Maybe they wouldnt have time if the crunch was strong enough by a mental command. Fullborn, if a full belly of metal and body packed with metalminds is allowable from the start.

Yeah. I think every system has strength capable powers but not as directly as the metallic arts. Stormlight strength comes from being able to push your muscles to 100% of their ability and beyond, instantly healing any tears you create. Shardplate is from Roshar though and it arguably is the strongest single strength augmenting tool in the cosmere. Of course a pewter compounder who figures out how to store pewter strength would probably rise beyond that. Awakening could probably augment your strength to a degree. Really your awakened objects will be able to lift and move anything that that material could lift and move. There are some straps and ropes with thousands... tens of thousands of pounds worth of tensile strength. A 9th heightening awakener could literally awaken some arms made from 1 inch steel cable and throw around 100,000+ lbs. The real question behind awakening is how does the body brace for this? Perhaps you make some doc ock or iron spider limbs and allow your body to be carried around by these crazy cables that will also brace you up as they lift what needs to be lifted. We know that awakeners were using ropes as siege weapons to sling boulders. That is old rope. How much more could 9th heightening get with steel cable?

It is interesting you mention bone crushing. Besides obvious muscular strength the bone density and all of the connective tissue would become stronger too. This is a big time benefit for when you go elsewhere in the cosmere. Transporting an army to Sel to train and then bringing them to Roshar quickly would be insane. I believe Roshar is said to be 0.7 of earth's gravity. So a bit difference there for sure. Not to mention that Roshars atmosphere is supposedly 30% O2 as opposed to earth's standard 21%. So someone who is built up and lived on Sel for their life is going to get to Roshar and basically be a super soldier even without any powers at all. Some serious John Carter of Mars stuff going on.

But do aetherbouns play by the sane rules? Do aetherbound pull from the Spiritual realm like shardic magics do? Aethers are not tied to the shards and in fact claim to predate Adonalsium. I would argue that the Luhel bond may not have to play by the same rules as traditional shardic magic.

Just because I really cant stop myself... Here is a pair of identical brothers who are full feruchemists. Honestly, in my mind one is a nerd and one is a jock but as feruchemists this could 100% pass as the same person minus the beard. They can store and tap sight for the need or not for glasses. They can store and tap nutrition and strength to augment their actual build. With full access to manipulating identity regardless of if it would work as twins baseline, they could completely share and spread their storage to which ever one needs it. The nerd could absolutely be some extra cool engineer who supplies the other with gadgets and the first hand knowledge of the users manual and blueprints with it. Meanwhile his brother could have shared some experience and knowledge of techniques in the field fighting. Heck take it up one notch and give them both the royal locks too so they can manipulate and grow their hair on a whim. Totally rad. Eating because I am hungry at work and looking forward to tearing off a chunk of bread for lunch.

Legit. Thanks for this. Honestly I think a pair of copper compounding twins would be a really fun thing to talk about from a story telling perspective. They may get hopelessly lost in some serious identity confusion and crisis. But the possibilities for a skill monkey type of build is out of this world. Doubling your time learning any skill would be insane. Far cheaper than time manipulation in the cosmere.

I had an idea for identical twins being born as metalborn. Would the SDNA be identical as well? If one was born a mistborn or feruchemist would they both be born that way? If one was born as a copper compounder would the other be born a copper compounder? Would they be able to tap and store into eachothers metalminds? Honestly twins capable of copper compounding and being able to compound eachothers memories would be pretty bonkers I think. They could each study a seperate subject and become masters of that subject only to hand over some metalmind and gift eachother mastery of those talents and knowledge.

Do Returned need to drink to stay alive? Of not... how would they interact as aetherbound? Would the aether simply drain directly from the Breath they consume each week requiring more than a single weekly breath?

I read the first bits of the aether of night. I was under the impression that...