DoctaDajman

There is a WoB that says you cant summon a blade while a leecher is touching you. That probably works with armor too. However copper doesnt impact other people outside of it. Even at its best use it protects only the user from specific invested attacks. It may stop people from hearing pulses but I dont think it is going to stop shard summoning at all as the only thing I have seen on that was in regards to Chromium use not copper. I believe coppercloud could make spren act strange to an extent but once the spren are present enough to be forming shards I dont think it would have much effect. I would place the burden of proof for it happening on the other side for that though. Edit: This does not even say that the shardbearer would desummon the shard if a leecher grabed them. Investiture resists investiture I dont even think a leecher could stop the unoathed from swapping weapon forms so long as the shardplate was between the leecher and the unoathed. I imagine the plate would be able to tamponade fairly well small cuts. Even if you lost a leg or an arm I think the armor would be able compensate. Not necessarily healing you but compression and prosthetic all in one. I just dont know that a mistborn is getting through the plate at all. Duralumin steel is your only bet and long term I think it opens the mistborn up to much to use it. Especially if the unoathed can swap shardblade into a shield... or even use the flat of the blade to block it. I am super curious to know if we have seen a shardblade, dead or alive, die away or disappear following any sort of attack, especially kinetic. Its really just that these shards are alive and able to self regenerate... the mistborn is cooked 9/10 times. The lucky eyeslit shot is its only real chance. This is another part of why they lose 9/10. This arena is absolutely set in the unoathed's favor. I dont think they need it because I think even in a city block the mistborn will lose due to running out of resources. Once upon a time the argument was that you crack the plate and then hide until it leaks all of the stormlight. Or you crack it and leech it quickly. But it isnt happening against living plate connected directly to the Spiritual Realm. The mistborn has to break and shatter enough of the plate in a single attack to cripple it. I dont see it happening even if a building fell on top of the unoathed. Eventually the mistborn in an arena will run out of metals. Then they are a sitting duck. The best they can do is hide. Put this in another scenario and it could be different. It is odd to limit a mistborn to 16 metals, some of which were not available until guns were, but no access to atium or guns. Give the mistborn a fire arm and atium and suddenly you can swap that to 9/10 for the mistborn as they would know where there eyeslit was going to be all the time. But in this arena, any arena without firearms and atium I think the living shards with connection to the spirit realm win the vast majority of the time.

If you had an unkeyed and unsealed metalmind could you teach a spren to use it?

I have long thought about the ability to carve out the perfect hobbit hole if I had shards. Not just dug out but carved beautifully and the shardplate could be used to hoist all of that material up and out of the hill I am carving into. As a long time reader of Redwall books I imagine Salamandastron, a city carved entirely into a mountain. With the new state of affairs on Roshar and all of the new flood risks, could shardbearers be put to use in engineering? My initial thought is that they are all too full of themselves to go out and use their shards on things so mundane as carving out cities into cliffsides or mountain ranges. I imagine they could channel spillways through there and send the endless rain through them to keep the insides of homes dry. A little testing and they may quickly be able to discover plumbing as well. Not sure what direction they will go to adapt to the equivalent to the ashmounts on scadrial. This never ending rain will change Roshar as much as we saw each time a mortal held those powers on Scadrial. I just think shards could make rebuilding so much quicker if those who hold shards use them.

With the plate being directly connected to the Spiritual realm how quickly does it heal compared to living radiant plate?

I don't think it was shown from what I have heard. Just a thing I am assuming would be the case for a living blade. The spren now has choice and agency again and will be able to change that... At least how I read the weapons scenes it seems the spren has more control over what they become than the radiant. Syl seemed to enjoy changing weapon shapes in the fight over the shattered planes between Kal and Szeth. For that reason alone I make the assumption that it is probable that they will be able to at some future point. Although I should at least listen to the chapters where these scenes pop up. But I feel like changing shapes was more the sprens choice than the radiants and through the bond they simply learned what eachother wanted. Perhaps some spren prefer to appear and be used in specific ways compared to others? That is also why I assume the windspren from plate would still have extra mobility on their own as they are more alive now and capable of agency and action.

I used to be 100% mistborn in these situations. But shards block the lines for steel and iron. A mistborn cant pull anything into the unoathed because they will never be able to access lines that belong to objects behind the unoathed. If the unoathed can face the mistborn and track it then they can use a shardshield and I honestly dont even think duralumin enhanced cannonball shots are going to crack a sliver of honor. I believe the Unoathed also can hear the living plate and blade/ shield / whatever speaking to them... so it is unlikely the mistborn is going to get some angel that the unoathed is unprepared for because they are literally surrounded and protected by spren capable of communicating the mistborns position to the man inside the suit. If a building toppled onto the shardbearer there isnt a huge worry. It may be time consuming, but their kit is built for magically cutting through the debris and moving it. Shardplate strength is easily 3x what even flared pewter is. Again, I love the mistborn and I am always rooting for them in these situations but we arent talking about dead shards here. The mistborn is fighting an army of lesser spren whose only job is protecting the unoathed and they are fighting the unoathed themselves plus a greater spren who is indestructible within the physical realm and capable of severing souls with a touch. Mistborn vs full shardbearer is a lot different topic. One that the mistborn stands a far greater chance at winning. But unoathed arent wearing dead plate and using deadeye blades. These spren are once again cooperative and living that they use. Totally different ballgame and I fear for my mistborn friends. I feel this. I think Wax is built well to survive for a while against the unoathed (we keep saying shardbearer but again these arent your typical shardbearers. They have living plate and blade which is, honestly epic). Iron feruchemy synergy with steel is great. Good enough to take out Adolin with living plate and blade? I doubt it. Shardshield likely wont break even to wax. I am happy to see Adolin get a bit of love in all of this and an upgrade. Dude hasnt leveled up in 5 books really so it was dang time.

If the terms of the fight at that the mistborn has no atium and no firearms they get bodied. My purpose of the post was to inquire whether anything can hurt a shardblade the way a duralumin push may crack plate. Yes duralumin fueled pewter would probably make a fine attack but it is only one time use and if the shardbearer gets a single hit off on a blade the fight is over. Note that when Kaladin kicked the plate his legs snapped and required healing. I am a big fan of duralumin fueled pewter and have made a few posts of the absurdity of it. Personally I think it may even be enough to stop the damage from a terminal velocity fall. I have a ton of faith in it. But in order for the mistborn to get that kind of attack off they would have to be in range and safely so. I think if the shardbearer grew a shield against it the attack would do absolutely nothing to the Shard shield. Or they can grow a blade and use it. We often limit shardblades to big bulky weapons. If a shardbearer can move a 6 foot long fantasy sized weapon as fast as they do imagine one turning their shardblade into a more reasonably sized saber or small sword. You dont need mass against the mistborn. A super thin blade moving at a shardplate enhanced speed of a fencer would need only the flick of a wrist to take out the mistborn. The unoathed does not have to fight using shardblade stances that limited deadeyes. Instant resummoning of the blade is also an issue. Even duralumin I dont think will allow for pushing or pulling plate. It is just so invested and more so now.

I do assume a duralumin shot would crack the lesser spren that make up plate but what about a shard-shield made from the radiant spren in place of the shardblade. I dont know that even duralumin steel pushes would be able to generate the force necessary to crack or shatter a shardblade. The unoathed could literally just sit around with a shield absorbing the strikes from the mistborn. I dont see how turtle strat doesnt win this one. The plate and blade are both now living. So long as the unoathed is patient the mistborn cant win. Heck they could even lay down, shape the shardblade into a towershield big enough to cover them nearly entirely and wait for the mistborn to give up and walk away. I guess the terms of the fight are that both want the other dead. But the mistborns only real weapon against them in the fight is mitigated entirely by the blade being used instead as a shield. I dont see the living blade / shield having any of the limitations and tendency to break that I see with the plate. I have often thought that plate cracks and crumbles as individual spren making it up have their will broken from direct shots. I just dont think that we will see any of that from a greater radiant type spren blade. No way a duralumin push will be worse than clashing with Nightblood. The napping could be a bad idea for other reasons. What would a stomach full of chromium and duralumin do if a mistborn burnt it while touching the spren blade or shield?

When I experience the best of anything I try to make sure its not the best forever. Might as well add better on top of it from there. Do you suppose that every spren type making plate retains an amount of their powers somehow? And could they make that passive for the user inside? Like could being surrounded by windspren who all have the ability to fly turn flying into a now passive ability that doesnt need stormlight? Could Kaladin's windspren carry him around like a heavenly one replicating lashing to some unknown limit for free?

This is super helpful. So do you think windspren making liveplate can likely negate their massive weight and become neutrally bouyant? If windspren were convinced that the best way to protect someone that the radiant wanted protected was to infact go on the offensive do you think they could pummel some badguys and become flying non-sharp shards? Even without the ability to sever souls, shardplate is heavy. I dont know how many spren make up plate but divided by roughly 1300 and with an ability to fly even 100fps you could have some terrifying offensive ability there. As for the unoathed shardbearer... if their plate were made of windspren, and there was no oath binding those spren to the ideals of protection could the spren be convinced to work in this manner? I'm glad you are back. I have missed seeing you in the vs threads. As someone without enough time to read all of the books, and really no desire for the stormlight storyline, the unoathed vs has my mind racing and excited for cosmere magic again. 2 years is a long time to be gone. Would they happen to have been the best 2 years? Just curious. Welcome back either way!

When it is taken off does it leave the physical realm? Or can it move on its own within the physical realm? Or are the spren just right in the cognitive realm always attached to the place of the radiant / user?

Is living shardplate summonable? Deadplate must be donned and doffed in a slow process that involves lifting massive weights piece by peice to put it on... I guess if you get the legs on first for a good base and then the arms you could use the strength from those to hoist up the chest piece and helmet last... but how does living plate do it? Do the spren move to the radiant / user when needed? If they can be commanded to protect someone else by chance... could plate spren also be sent out into space as flying heavily invested massively dense and heavy projectiles? I know it is likely a really odd way of using plate but a spinning, flying, no go zone of shardplate pieces could be a super effective weapon. For people who cant hold ground it is possible a ranged bludgeoning shardplate vambrace or gauntlet spinning around would be far more deadly than even Vin's belt buckle attack. But I haven't read far enough to have any ideas of how plate spren exist in the physical realm or how they are treated in terms of donning and doffing. I assume they have some semblance of mobility as the eye slat can be slammed shut. If they could be commanded to fly or move through the physical realm, could they also do so while transparent as we see some radiants protected by plate that doesnt appear to the naked eye.

Please spoil away for me here. What are the unoathed shards capable of doing? Can the plate pop into existsnce when needed? Or be invisible like other living plate? Can it provide protection while not being a 1300 lb block of living spren wearing down the halls of a home? Can the blade change forms and does it summon instantly?

Genuinely. This is why I am a sucker for spoilers. The beautiful part of Scadrials eras so far is that I have 2 jumping off points where I liked the ending and dont have to read further. The show Chuck is the perfect example... I binged seasons 1-4. I had to read spoilers as I was going. Once I got to the end of season 4 I heard what happened in season 5 as the series finalized and despised it so much... season 4 was where that series ended in my mind. The nerd got happily married to the girl he had a crush on for the last 4 seasons. Why waste my time to watch another 10 hours if the ending is going to break my heart? That is how I feel about Stormlight. The healing I knew was an issue in book 2 and then 3 it became inexcusable for me. I know this thread is about the people on Roshar but I feel like it is all of that system for me. I have cherry picked the parts with Vasher and read them for the awakening. I have no need to read RoW or WaT. I can live with the ending of Oathbringer and call it a good spot to be done with that series. Brandon may be the creator of the Cosmere but my brain and fantasy world can leave the future up to possibility that I enjoy. I will say that, from this discussion, Brandon has done an excellent job of turning Roshar into the epic fantasy that he wanted. It seems it is becoming a magic heavy game of thrones where he writes about the good the bad and the ugly. Not my personal cup of tea. Adolin killing Sadeas was a sad moment for me. Watching him deal with it felt legit. Maybe its because he isnt a magical demigod, but that story always felt pretty legit to me. But the other characters have gotten a bit too extreme for my liking. I like the pacing of scadrial books. I like that they are written from one sides point of view. I like a good guy and a bad guy. Miles, Marsh, Bleeder... when Brandon wrote their POV chapters and sections it was always giving so much more insight into the magic which I really liked. I dont have a desire to get inside of the bad guys head. Let them be the bad guys and let me enjoy their power without making them a focal point. Although I completely respect that everyone has their own preferences for fantasy... let them read and enjoy who and what they will... the stormlight just doesnt do it for me. I like the magic... if it wasn't for shards and Awakening I wouldnt read any of Stormlight. I much prefer reading about characters found on Scadrial and Nalthis. Stormlight is just a Venture down an avenue and style of writing fantasy I dont jive with. Thanks for that.

I think on his most brilliant day, Taravangian was probably smarter in a general term. Rashek was said to have a perfect memory too. Probably from copper and compounding in a way, but still that would imply he had as much book knowledge as one could ever ask for. And he probably remembers pretty well the time he held the power of a shard too. What we see of Rashek is him after 1000 years of watching anyone he had ever gotten close to die. That man likely learned more and wanted to forget more than is even fathomable to us mere mortals. I have a friend who is turning 90 soon and she cannot forget a number she sees or hears. Perfect memory for birthdates, phone numbers, and even license plates. Literally, she couldn't tell you the model of car or color of car you drive but she will never forget the license plate you had 5 years ago. She told us recently that she doesnt want to remember any more numbers. They are stuck in her head and she doesnt want to remember any more. Now take that and think about a lifetime 11x that. Even with copper being able to be used as a mind dump, Rashek is then left with massive gaps of time which would destroy your psych too. I dont think Rashek wanted to live. He probably did see that Vin was about to him and he just didnt care anymore. Not because he was a moron but because he was exhausted. He wasn't meant to be immortal. This is sort of a theme, Hoid and arguably Vasher are the only ones in the cosmere who have surpassed the 1000 year mark without dipping into depression from what I have seen. By any measurable sense I think Rashek takes the W on this poll. Not because he is particularly brilliant or had moments like the diagram but because he just has 10 lifetimes worth of remembering everything. How bored he got at the end doesnt even matter. He didnt have to advance medicine. He didnt have to develop advanced weaponry. He didnt want to... it would all be used by ruin to destroy the world eventually if he had. Rashek was smart enough to purposefully keep his planet in a 1000 year dark age to keep them all alive. Sadly the dude just didnt want to live any more. But his powerset absolutely lends itself to allowing him to be incredibly sharp. Taravangian was warped and trapped in his smartness. Probably the more brilliant of the 2 for a day but does that brilliance mean anything if you have to get a team together and study your new language for decades before becoming a god and understanding finally? Total hogwash.

Yeah it is an annoying rule to edit if it is any length of time between. I want people to see new thoughts!

Simple question. How would you build a water bender esq character in the cosmere. I wish so badly that there was a water aether or something very similar. I fear it would be unlikely because if you could make water wouldnt that cause an infinite loop which is impossible? If an aetherbound existed in a place where their aether already existed naturally would they be able to control it even if they didnt create it?

I was thinking of inquisitors sight and how epic it would be to lightweave a thick mist of darkness around an arena stealing vision from enemies. Perhaps lightweaving a globe of darkness around a specific persons head could work as well but I am unsure if it is possible. I mean Shallan did lightweave disguises for other people if I am not mistaken. If that was from a distance and those disguises stuck why would that never be used offensively to destroy vision? A truthwatcher would make for a fun themed character too. Maybe instead of a dark cube just lightweave a bright box of light to oversaturate the world of the opponent.

I always wanted to play Breeze. Ham would be fun too but I like the way Breeze talks more. Im getting old enough I could also enjoy the gruff role of Clubs.

I'm gonna vote softer. I feel the intent worries and argument but I just want to toss out there that the thing that makes it feel the most soft to me is the healing aspect. Seeing a Returned get their throat slit was an intense moment highlighting the dangers of existance. Watching Vin get battered and slashed up every book barely escaping througg means other than healing made me really appreciate the system and its limits. Even Miles made the healing look awesome as it was his only power. The Stormlight Archives butchered it for me. Took all of the magic of the books away. I dont buy the mental illness selling point and dangers. Adolin is the GOAT in that series becuase he is the only POV character working without stormlight to insta heal him from one shot kills. I really dont care what anti investiture systems have been introduced. All of the rules of a system matter very little when those rules arent tied to palpable danger. But who am I to critique it. I cant bring myself to read RoW or WaT because of how much I loath the passive healing of stormlight. All of the rules, intent, connection, get lost in the lack of danger for me. I dig the Raysium dagger though. Although after hearing how the heralds conduct themselves in battle I struggle to believe Moash could stab Jezrien outside of the herald being suicidal and not wanting to live anyways. But that is my same argument for how Vin beat TLR. In the end, I think those immortal beings welcome death.

If a soulcaster could soulcast blood within themselves could they then soulcast their bones into aluminum without impacting themselves too badly? The bones are really important when it comes to making blood but if you can soulcast good clean blood already then why worry about it. Having some shardproof skeleton would pretty awesome benefit.

Song of Prayer is interesting. A mistborn has access to seeking which can hear and feel different tones right? Perhaps that song is something that one may pick up on in a plausible way if they were in a position to aquicire the spike anyways.

Good points there. Probably a matter of being at a specific threshold of investiture. Thanks for the spoilers. I love them to be honest. I wonder if you can hack that highly invested state one way then you could perhaps hack it a different way. Much like how holding breath or holding stormlight make you more passively invested for those moments. Stormlight being kinetic, as well as voidlight, and breaths being innate. They all share a theme of making one more invested. There is another kinetic investiture that could be hacked. When an allomancer is burning metal actively they are opening that line of power from the Spiritual Realm. Even if it came down to using x amount and a mistborn needed to be burning multiple metals at once to be considered invested enough that could probably hack the system enough as well. While not a truly passive and free form of the ability, if they could become invested enough to soulcast what is in their body then the hack would still work to an extent. Probably easier to just do the mechanical implant of metals but one of the things I liked about this the most was the idea of taking something as mundane as an extra helping of food and turning it into a far more expensive amount of precious metal to be burnt later. If you could active the ability to use the hack by burning cheap metals and then turn a chunk of bread you just consumed into bendalloy, electrum, duralumin, chromium etc.... then I would still find the hack worth while. I wonder if stealing connection from the Fused would allow the hemalurgist to be able to connect to Odium and get voidlight. Even after it becomes warlight, are the Fused still using it and powering their abilities?

Now I am curious as to how cannon the new RPGs are. Like Brandon was okay with people putting together rules for their adjacent universes and the MAG but the MAG was never carried over into the coppermind. I feel like this one has a lot more backing from him and all of the Fused are granted a passive use of their surge that they have mastered. I will preface it all as this... in the spirit of interpreting game rules this seems a potent combo. I am curious about this some more... I haven't brought myself to power through RoW or WaT but feel free to drop spoilers. Is the lack of voidlight because there were anti tones going on? I have no idea if they just ran out or were in areas where they couldn't access it because of some null magic field esq things. Cannon it seems right to not give anything truly for free. Would other lights or breaths be able to be hacked to fuel this? Could a swig of purified dor at the beginning of the day provide enough baseline investiture to use a free use of a surge that a person had access too. Free isnt free if there is a cost. It would be like saying that a pewter arm got to be 1.5x as strong as everyone else for free so long as they had pewter in their gut just floating there. Which seems inconsistent and odd.

Definately that reference was from the world guide. Good to know about the voidlight. Bit of a bummer. Since lights can be used as fuel for other powers would this at least be more efficient for allomancy than simply using light to fuel it even?