DoctaDajman

While a gun has way better range than this... a spren chakram would be pretty dope as well. Basically just launch a sharpened spren frisby at your enemies. You have the benefit of immediately resummining it if you see it is going to miss as well or if you need to stop it from continuing on.

This sounds cool. But we already know the outcomes of any matchup involving a radiant. Plate blocks 100% of attacks and the attack that has to be let through for a good story is instantly healed through. Then we soulcast your head in a block of aluminum.

As I was once again pondering on the preposterousness of someone with Lifts boon and bendalloy feruchemy (with or without compounding) I wondered how much investiture she actually gets from a meal. If I remember correctly it took a single roll to give her enough lifelight to bring that boy back from freshly being killed. I assume that was at the 3rd ideal or so? But how much lifelight do you suppose that 100 calorie or so dinner roll gave her to perform that feat in terms of spheres. If a single bendalloy ring were able to hold days, weeks, or even months of calories how many spheres worth of light do you suppose that could hold for someone with her boon? I welcome any and all spoilers. I haven't read all of SA but please spoil whatever you need to to make your case for a theoretical sphere > calories ratio.

I like this. It would be fascinating to see. What would fuel the surges?

I genuinely think coppeclouds are underrated a bit. Besides hiding investiture use, you're immune to emotional allomancy which is a big deal. I personally think that immunity branches to many other forms of investiture which would all need a spoiler box. From a social setting we see political faces bragging and even running on the fact that they cant be swayed by rioters or soothers. This may branch out and help against duralumin feruchemy though we dont really know. Knowledge is power in the cosmere. Seekers are masters of secrets and I would enjoy being a coppercloud just to make their day a pain in the butt. I think there is some suggestion that the power of a copperclound could be learned or even leak over into a weaker aoe resistance to the emotional allomancy too. Okay here are a few general cosmere spoilers and some theories I have for copper uses. I am sure there are other applications we haven't seen yet. But I think the more invested arts start mixing the more a coppercloud could do beyond just, "you dont know we are mistings huehue".

Honestly. I dont know that a mistborn has a truly effective range outside of 50 yards or so without using rifles as well. If it is mistborn with their powers only vs a squad then 00 buckshot would launch a decent spread of 8-9 aluminum ball bearings each roughly the size of a 9mm round. There is a good reason my 12 gauge loaded with buckshot and slugs is my favorite firearm. So much fun and that buckshot is beyond devastating. If a mistborn were within 50 yards that would be my go to against them. Not saying it would be the perfect answer but if right now I had to go on mistborn defense that is what I would grab.

One of the rabbit holes I had some fun time going down on my mission as well. It is no shock to me that there are 7 stars in the big dipper, that it is on the west side of the Salt Lake City Temple. Lots of symbolism to have there. 7 dispensations and each one revolves around the fact that prophets are on or were on the earth and they each point to Christ. If there were a place in the sky I could point to and speculate on it would be that same star Polaris. It is through that star, as it is through Christ, that we may make it back to the Father. Of course who knows if that is exactly where His throne resides or if it is simply the symbolism with which he taught ancient prophets who didnt have access to screens and spent their nights wondering and pondering the secrets of the universe from a faith filled perspective. Back to splicing SDNA, perhaps stealing an ability strips the SDNA in a different manner. Who knows what will come of the innate investiture that is stolen with Nicrosil. It obviously functions differently than other, older forms of hemalurgy as it doesnt kill the person outright.

Not just soldiers but Koloss. And that is still unarmored. Using pewter as her only true defense which is basically the equivalent to a slightly padded vest at a normal burn rate.

That is a big part of what is missing. Vin never wore armor of any kind. Stone tipped arrow wouldnt do much of anything if she were wearing any kind of armoring. That is the plot armor though. Just like Rashek didnt stop her from tearing off his braces mistborn never protected them selves. Armoring and weapons made for a battle would make a massive difference. I agree that mistborn have far more weaknesses than other arts. That is all built into their revolving around metals. Which is such a well known counter. Like antilight may become in the future.

@Frustration I do agree with a lot of what is said here. I dont consider any of what we saw in Mistborn 1 or really even 2 to be a great showing of a mistborn at war against non metalborn. Mistborn is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, system Brandon ever built. As such it has a massive counter and no healing. But against a squad of non metalborn... and armed for a battle... we never saw one really truly operate that way. 99% of what we see of mistborn in combat is based on them planning for a stealthy mission or being prepared for combat against another mistborn. We never saw one wear armor ever. You get a mistborn armed with a koloss sword like Vin was and give them a decent set of armor and I do believe they will blow through an army of non metalborn pretty dang easily. All of the mistborn we see purposefully ran around underequiped... but true warfare they wouldnt be restricted by any of that. Brandon fueled the story purposefully so that Kelsier and Vin would be up against the most elite non mistborn fighters out there. If anything he handed all of the hazekillers the ultimate plot armor, a magical killer who wasn't a soldier and had no intentions of killing unless they had too. Not to mention. Once someone like Ranette figures out that Wax can burn steel and duralumin I am sure she could whip up an auto feeder style device running with springs and spools of metal wires that insert into piercings to allow automatic cycling of metals for duralumin bursts. Cover that bad boy in aluminum and you suddenly dont even need any vials. Mistborn are so much more powerful than the narrative shows but how long would radiants last if they decided that only a few diamond chips was enough to go into battle with or that using a shardblade and plate was a bad idea because a small part of the population will auto counter them for existing.

So we have physical DNA and spiritual DNA. That SDNA gets grafted into a person's natural SDNA when they get a hemalurgic spike. When reproducing can the SDNA from a spike be passed down to the child? For instance, while Kelsier claims he has no powers at the moment would his SDNA still be wired to him having been a mistborn? If the body he is currently stapled onto were to procreate would the child have the benefits of having a natural born mistborn as part of the paternal SDNA that is passed on? What about a Returned divine gift. If it was stolen and stapled onto someone could the children of that person be born with the Royal Locks or more?

Random question and looking for spoilers. Does El soulcast? His own carapace into aluminum? Haven't read RoW or WaT but wish you would spoil this for me. It could be years before I get around to those books.

How nice. Jason Bourne with pewter allomancy would be terrifying.

Certainly not the only way. The stronger allomancer is more efficient at pulling power from the metal... or using the metal to pull power from the spiritual realm. But the Steel feruchemy interaction works the same regardless. More metal consumed by the allomantic metabolism = more power. Steel speeds up that allomantic metabolism. Whether Elend burns metal any faster than Vin does (WoB aside) is irrelevant when we are talking about Steel speeding up the metabolism. I know that the steel and pewter synergy has been pointed out a few times. My curiosity and the reason for this thread is how storing speed could potentially slow down a duralumin burn to a point where the allomancer can cut it off and spare the other metal. Even if they can't cut it off to spare the other metal and igniting duralumin forces an endless stream of chain reaction that reaction is supercharged pewter beyond what tapping steel would give and it is plausible the pewter benefits could offset the world wrenching slowdown of storing speed. This is mostly useful when bracing for impact as a hit is incoming. Or multiple hits are incoming. The strength is simply a number we can see and quantify.

Here you are friend.

I have to disagree with that. Metal usage = power. Pewter is the fastest burning non enhancement metal outside of atium. That is because it is doing the most for you. A lerasium mistborn burns more metal and gets more use from those metals in the same timespan as a regular mistborn. If you flare and use more metal you get more power from it. The enhancement metals work on this principle as a baseline as well. While not cannon Brandon says in the Mistborn Adventure Game that a steel runner can generate a lot more kinetic energy when speedily smacking someone but that their body is not enhanced to endure it. So you hypersonic slap a fool and you break your hand, regardless of if you perceive that that smack should break your hand or not. Another interesting wob is here. There is a mental component to each metal as well. Which hints that the more metal you burn the more that component helps you get the most from it. I think this interaction is just as broken as it should be. The physical burn is doubled in its rate so the power should come out in the same way. Even if strength were locked by perception what about all of the non perception based boosts? The denser tissues? The better balance the faster reaction time and speed? The metal is not a part of the user. It doesnt share an identity like feruchemy metalminds. It is affected by the users metabolism which is sped up by steel feruchemy. More metal burned = more power. The most powerful tricks of mistborn are in how well they can control these things. F steel just makes that infinitely easier to fine tune. Add in duralumin and you get stupid results. Duralumin breaks the game. This combo makes it break the game in less instantaneous ways.... which sort of breaks the game even more.

Here you go sir. This already makes A-pewter and F-steel my favorite twinborn combo (sorry F-iron). But if you added a spike to give A-duralumin this would be absolutely insane.

So steel feruchemy can boost allomantic gain based on how much speed the user is tapping. Comparisons with pewter specifically; Pewter with no altered speed gives 2x strength and 3x when flaring. If you double your physical speed then the physiological process of burning the metal happens twice as fast and nets you twice the results, so 4x strength and 6x while flaring. Triple speed would triple it and things get even more exciting 6x strength and 9x while flaring. But what if you wanted to work it the other way around? Could you slow down your burn to half time and only gain 1.5x strength? Cut it by 3/4 and just get 1.25x normal strength for a far more prolonged period of time? Yes this seems useless... except for duralumin. I anticipate that a duralumin burst doesn't truly happen instantly and instead takes place over a second or two. I view it as a continuous endless cycle of burning until the metal is gone. I guess my only evidence for this thought is that I feel like Vin's headbutt wouldn't work if Duralumin truly made the entire pewter store burn instantly. There is still some travel time between her head breaking the face, skull and brains of the man holding onto her. Now fiddling with time and slowing everything down by speeding up could likely help a user better time their duralumin uses but what about drawing it out? If you had 5 minutes of pewter in your system and every second of use nets you 2x strength for that second then duralumin lasting 2 seconds would give you like 300x your normal strength in that span of time. But what if you could slow down the duralumin burn by storing 75% of your physical speed? Could you stretch that duralumin spike over 8 seconds? Each second would give you like 75x your normal strength still yet. And this supercharged duralumin pewter may even make up for the fact that you are storing 3/4 of your normal speed. Perhaps making it a functional use. I would never suggest that pewter provides enough speed to offset F-steel storage at that kind of rate, but we aren't talking about normal amounts of pewter. We are talking about condensing 300 seconds of normal pewter usage into 8 seconds of duralumin. That is still 75x the normal amount of pewter a person would use each second. And this is only for 5 minutes of pewter. A misting or mistborn could easily eat hour's worth. Side question. Can a duralumin burn run out before the other metal does if the ratios are off?

Was Wax specifically targeting lerasium? Is that a well known metal? Do Scadrians know it makes mistborn if burned? Honestly I thought I remembered the targeted metal being atium.

Could a lifeless be commanded to utilize an iron medallion? And would the metalmind storage work by storing a % of the weight or an actual number? If Wax stores 30% of his weight or roughly 50-60 lbs all the time which is being stored the weight itself or the % of the attribute? 30% of something that weighs 1000x as much as him is still only 30% but does it require a metalmind 1000x larger or is feruchemy strictly a % based game?

This was totally a character I have envisioned many a times. A courier lurcher who delivers directly to a window. They rock those sick free Skates and skate along the sides of building pulling against the building and forward at the same time. The Skates dont have to be attached because they are pulling on those as well. Now I also think Marsh gave us some good evidence that enough training could allow a Lurcher or coinshot to choose where they generate lines from. Unless his holding out his hands when crushing the gun was just for show.

This is a big chunk of what I was curious about. If plate gives 10-20x strength and pewter gives 2-3x it is easy to say pewter will always under perform plate and the plate will be doing the heavy lifting. But if duralumin condenses an hours worth of pewter down into just a couple of seconds we are talking magnitudes more strength from that of the shardplate alone. Would the plate then be additive to the pewter? Do you think the surge of investiture could interact with the plate in other ways? I assume that punching a wall with plate will damage the wall and leave the plate safe. But if someone duralumin burned pewter and took that same swing with plate on, could that extra strength and speed build up enough energy to destroy the plate of a gauntlet? I feel that no matter what scenario plate and pewter cant play synergistically in a mutually beneficial way when it comes to strength or durability. Either the plate takes over for the pewter or the pewter is too much for the plate for a duralumin fueled burst. Yes the speed and balance of pewter would probably cross over and give extra benefits but from a pure strength and durability look at things I feel like one overshadows the other until it briefly, explosively does not.

I always envisioned shardplate as overwriting any existing strength buffs because it encased the user in a way that any motion from the user would be maximized by the plate. However I have also heard that plate actually shares stormlight with the wearer to create the effects. What are peoples thoughts on pewter and shardplate then? Would a pewter misting be able to operate plate at all while burning pewter or would there be an interference between the plate sharing stormlight and the burning pewter? Would the pewter add faster movements and reaction time as we see it already do in an additive fashion even if the strength buffs are overshadowed and negated by the plate? I guess my final question is about duralumin. Do you think that duralumin pushed pewter may add any benefit to a used of shardplate?

So I first have to shoutout to @Koloss17 because of OG tin life mafia stuff. Compounding is for feruchemically stored attributes getting boosted with preservations investiture via allomantically burning a metalmind that has shared identity to the allomancer. Tin can absolutely store senses granted through other investiture sources. Lifesense can be stored, bronze sense, even seeing the Spiritual realm through some temporal metals like gold and electrum, and yes even the enhanced proprioception from pewter (although pewter is already enhancing proprioception which you already have so you could technically store that without a need for pewter and get pewter like results for that sense of balance and grace alone). If feruchemy is net neutral, a tin feruchemist who is also a seeker could burn their bronze and store that sense into a tin mind. Say 1 hours worth of bronze. Because they are now able to withdraw it in portions like any other feruchemy attribute they could compact that into 30 minutes for twice as strong of seeking. I suspect that would allow a normal bronze allomancer to be able to pierce copperclouds for that time (or further compact it if needed to be 4x normal bronze for 15 minutes). Now, say they are a tin compounder with a spike giving them bronze allomancy... or they steal a minutes worth of seeking stored into an unkeyed metalmind and store it into their own metalmind keying it to themselves... then that 1 minute burns down and turns into 10 which burns down and turns into 100 which burns down and turns into 1000 etc... until they run out of tin or have their metalmind too full. Tin metalminds only hold 1 sense each. So a labeling system would be super important but I believe that a tin compounder who gets ahold of even 1 minute of any of the magical senses could store it and compound it. It is the most basic of hacks and I dont really see anything to say no its not possible. A tin compounder could, with the right access to an unkeyed metalmind with the proper sense stored in it, run around with lifesense, bronze sense, massive proprioception, vision that pierces materials, the ability to see the spiritual projections of themselves or others, and likely the ability to hear rhythms. Will they have the metal capacity to use all of these? Perhaps not. We know that atium also makes it so that the user can utilize that info dump they are taking in. Storing atium shadows would leave you with all of the information days or months or years in the future, but the mind enhancing benefits to use that information would be gone and lost in past when you burned the metal and end up as a net waste. Likewise, higher proprioception may not be as beneficial to a non pewterarm without the strength and fast twitch muscle speed that comes with burning pewter. Imagine being Peter Parker and having the spider sense but none of the strength and speed boosts to utilize it. I dont see bronze as being an issue. I guess there is a way to be a bronze savant level seeker without every owning the ability to burn bronze. That is pretty dope.

This is a bit of a bummer too. Assassination and self defense is still a far cry from warrior. Vin in the fights against koloss armies shows us that the mistborn on a battle field where metal exists can be terrifyingly effective. Sadly, by the time we see the next mistborn on paper everyone will have access to aluminum bullets and guns that will offer direct counters. I just think mistborn is such a hard magic system and has such a glaring weakness with aluminum or a lack of metal being around that anyone can create the scenario where they cant thrive. Although a mistborn could potentially just burn the aluminum bullet the second it breaks skin since aluminum burns instantly. And if they use an auto feeding, spring assisted, metal loading device to constantly replenish their metal reserves then burning an aluminum bullet wouldnt necessarily leave them drained of metals either. Not to mention the potential of multiple duralumin uses before a spool of metal empties either. Not that anyone should count that as a normal Mistborn. Just something I think would make a lot of sense to create a terrifying opponent in a mistborn. Keep them spooky!