therunner

Few issues with that reasoning: 1) Warform Parshendi are about twice as strong as human, so the kinetic energy would be at least twice that, i.e. ~3000 Joules. 2) It barely cracked the plate. The plate puffed a bit, and healed basically immediately. Twice the kinetic energy would mean the speed if the 1.5 inch iron sphere would have to be 518 fps or 157 m/s. Mistborn don't move anywhere near that speed, best feat is Vin and she moved at barely ~60 km/h (or 16.7 m/s), using horseshoe trick. Even their instantaneous speed immediately after pushing off of something won't go over 30 m/s, since to rise ~50 feet takes them at least a second. So yeah, Mistborn won't be able to fling anything that large with that speed. Maybe with duralumin? Object must be at least certain size to be pushed, metal dust is too small for example. But above the lower threshold you can push anything. But Mistborn has certain force they can exert, which determines the acceleration of the object as a = F/m. What force Mistborn exerts is a bit odd, as it sometimes behaves like if they were literally pushing their body against it (so bracing helps) but sometimes more like if it is some fixed force. In addition, the amount of force they can exert depends on the 'strength' of the line Connecting them to the metal (fainter line, weaker Connection, weaker push), and larger objects have larger/stronger lines. So e.g. pushing on car, or metallic construction of skyscraper, Coinshot can exert greater force than when pushing a coin or small metal ball. But the force does not grow linearly with mass, so the acceleration of larger objects is smaller than that of small objects. But either way, heavier objects will be accelerated less. So coins move about as fast as Mistborn can fling anything, and they certainly move slower than 100 m/s. I would say same speed from both, but if it encountered resistance the heavier Mistborn would have advantage (it would be easier for the projectile to push through, if Mistborn was still pushing on it). Only if he can leverage the weight, so it primarily helps when pushing through opposing force or if he is above the object he is pushing on. Yes, they are faaar above anything we have ever seen from Mistborn. Maybe with Duralumin they could achieve those speeds, but it would still barely crack a plate. I'll copy my analysis of the Kaladin situation from above, because it shows just how much Plate can take: So several sections of Plate crack (4 I think), not even fully break, when full grown man crashes into it moving at least 23m/s, having kinetic energy of 23800 Joules, which is ~7x times larger than the kinetic energy of the stones Parshendi were slinging (taking into account that they are twice as strong as human, without that assumption it would be 14x larger). To achieve this kinetic energy, the 1.5 inch steel sphere would have to move at 414 m/s or faster than speed of sound. That is waaay beyond even Duralumin enhanced Steelpush. As a result, Mistborn basically has no chance of doing meaningful damage to plate, not without some other tools at their disposal., steelpushes are simply not strong enough.

Steelpush strength depends on size of metal as well. Pushing of a coin gets you barely 30 feet in the air (Luthadel walls), and the acceleration is ~3-4 g's at most. Steelpush applies force, force accelerates bullet. It does not matter if the bullet is moving at some speed already, it will get accelerated anyway. And Wax can put literal tons of weight behind his pushes, letting him basically literally push his bullets through target (like he did with nails in that building in AoL). Regular Coinshot won't be able to do that. Ehm, coin at those speeds would definitely go through soft tissue. A penny (1.5 gram) can break skin at ~200 mph. Coins in Mistborn are heavier than that, so speeds to break skin can be lower.

MAG is not exactly canon, and those speeds don't make much sense, since wooden shields are sufficient to block coins pushed by Mistborn. Guns are more powerful than that. Not to mention that achievable speed from steelpush depends on mass of pushed object, since steelpush imparts force. Heavier object won't be moving at those speeds. Wax with Vindication could crack plate in 2-3 shots. Other than that Plate resists bullets well per WoB @Treamayne EDIT: we can actually estimate how many times Kaladin lashed himself from the fact that his kick flung Shardbearer and sent him sprawling. Full Plate weighs around ~620 kg (per books Plate weights 100 stoneweights, in 1 stone is 6.25 kg). Let's say Kaladin (and Relis) weights 15 stone. Then Kaladin must have had a momentum of at least 350 kg*m/s (I think speed of 0.5m/s is good baseline for being flung and sent sprawling., if conservative), which means his speed would have to have been 23 m/s. (assuming it is perfectly inelastic colision). To get to that speed over the trajectory of 1 meter, the acceleration (uniform) must have been ~260m/s^2. That is around 370 Lashings. The fact that some of the energy was lost in collision (to break plate, and Kaladin's legs) means he the velocity of Kaladin would have been even greater. At any rate, Kaladin had to have applied at least dozens if not low hundreds of Lashings to achieve the effect of his kicking flinging a Shardbearer. Equations used: Momentum conservation m_1 v_1 = m_2 v_2 v = a*t d = 1/2 a*t^2

I say yes. They are metal, and not Invested nor aluminum, they should be pushable/pullable like any other metal. Why would they have their own lines? The lines are spiritual Connection created by burning metal, not magnetic forces. Iron magnets could be burned, it is still just pure Iron. If they are feruchemically viable metals/alloys yes. Being magnetized should not affect it.

Indeed, the interactions will be interesting to see. And will settle a lot of discussions I think it is, Yumi spoilers: So I think Awakening will be general term for creation of Invested Item that possess measure of self-awareness/artifical spiritweb. By that reckoning, fabrial creation would technically be Awakening, though it is slightly outside of the terminology as the spiritweb is not artificial in this case. Yeah, but you cannot give Breath to inanimate object, only store Breath. Giving changes 'Identity key' of the Breath but storing does not. Even Awakening does not change the Identity key of Breath, not unless you create sentient entity (like Lifeless). Yeah, that is the part I have primary problem with. Even if Breath can copy what is in Spike (which I doubt), it cannot add to the power, since the Identity is different. At best you would have spike that contains two independent attributes/powers, even if those are technically the same. How that would work I have no idea. But it is possible that would not be possible, since spikes can become full. And if the spike is full, than no more Investiture can fitted in, or at least no more Hemalurgic investiture can be fitted in. Yep, that would be most likely necessary workaround at minimum.

Well yeah, Ninth heightening is something that what one, two person achieved (discounting God Kings who inherit the same pile), so it is far outside of realm of regular occurrences. And so far we have never seen anyone even try to Awaken something Invested, so the difficulty can be larger than it might seem. True, if Awakened = Invested + has spiritweb to do stuff on its own, then the only Invested non Awakened items are Hemalurgic spikes, Metalminds, gems with Stormlight, and some stuff from Nalthis. Fabrials, Shardblades/Plates, Medallions, Honorblades would all count as Awakened. Though now that I think about it, there is additional obstacle to Breath augmenting spike, the Investiture in spike has different Identity so that would probably prohibit the different Identity of Breaths to take advatange of it.

That probably would not work, broadly speaking any Invested Item is basically Awakened item. Per WoBs Awakening Spikes would be really hard Investiture resists Investiture and all that.

They might try to unkey it, though not sure how successful they would be. Stormlight/Voidlight so far remained unkeyed only in vacuum. Only Dor was unkeyed under regular physical conditions, and that comes from unique circumstances (Shard no longer being in SR). Not to mention Sibling could plausibly shut that down before they had time to draw the Aon (and they would have to obtain Dor for that Aon in the first place).

I don't think holding Breaths would boost your other Invested Arts. One, there is no evidence of that in Hoid. Two, the WoB says that savants are more Connected to the Shard, that is the primary reason for increased efficiency. Holding Investiture won't Connect you closer to another Shard. I don't think so. Purified Investiture can be used as fuel by anyone, but Breaths are keyed Investiture. If it was as easy as Commanding Breaths, than Ghostbloods would not need Purified Dor. And nature of Endowments Investiture is that you give it away to use it. So that alone probably prohibits just burning through it. Yes, I would say they are unique to Shard. So far this interaction is literally just a facet of Endowment Invested Art (Awakening). No other Art has such expression. Oaths don't make Allomancers better at Allomancy, why would Heightening? Not exactly. Twinsoul is using Unkeyed Investiture, which technically belongs to no Shard. Vasher, we don't know how he does what he does, but he is specifically not using it to fuel another system. He does not know how to awaken Stormlight, he just eats it, like Nightblood does. I would say so yes. Misting can understand all they want about Allomancy, but without closer Connection to Preservation/Harmony, they won't be any more powerful. That would probably require Unkeyeing Breaths first, and then it's just like using Purified Dor. Why would it? Breaths don't grant greater understanding on conscious level, and only grant instinct when it comes to Awakening. Since they are part of Endowments Invested Art. Instinctive burning is not something Allomancers reach eventually, they can do it even before they realize they have power. And Instinctive burning can also be triggered by simple survival instinct, like with Pewter. Awakening is much more complex than Allomancy. You need proper Command and Intent any time you use Breaths. Allomancer just burns metal and stuff happens. Awakening (Nalthian) existed ever since Endowment settled on Nalthis. When people first learned about it is open question, but it seems to be relatively recent. As far as we know, it is not possible. In theory any Shard could manually fuel any other Invested Art as long as it does not go against their Intent. But mortal cannot just take e.g. Mists and use it to fuel Surgebinding, nor can Radiant take in Stormlight and use it to fuel Allomancy (as far as we know). You need purified Investiture for such uses. Even Aetherbound used purified Investiture, and not one keyed to a Shard. There are clearly some possibilities of crossover that are more feasible than others. Ruin can fuel Allomancy for example (either manually or Hemalurgically). Surges can use Voidlight, if the Radiant has bond with Voidspren. But in both of those cases wielder needs Connection to both Shards involved, and the Shards involved are settled in the same system, possibly meaning that their Invested Arts are intertwined on some level. Again, why would it unlock any insight to other Invested Art? Breaths, Heightening both are just a part of Awakening, particular Invested Art. So of course Heightening can do things within that Invested Art. You can think of it like Oaths in Surgebinding. Oaths have no effect on Invested Arts other than Surgebinding, why should Heightening have on other Invested Arts? Dawnshard is not just a bunch of Investiture worth several thousand Breaths, they are much more than that.

Read the SA5 chapter readings, specifically Kaladin one (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/503-fanx-2022/#e15780) And since it is unreleased work, I think keeping it as spoiler is valid

SotD 2 spoilers

Highly unlikely. We have seen (or heard about) such spikes in TLM, and they are barely able to grant powers for short amount of time. So at best, they would just function as a spike with power stolen from a Misting. To push on metal in someone else you need to be TLR level Mistborn, and he was even beyond Lerasium Mistborns, so you would need a lot to get on that level.

There was Intent, it was Ruin's Intent in that case (there are WoBs). Eh, I would not say 'turned into bullet', it was just pre-existing spike used as a bullet. Those are possible to be created yes. I think so, yes. Really with any hemalurgically viable metal. But hitting the bindpoint is extremely difficult. The only examples of successful spiking that was not done on immobilized victim was done when Ruin was actively manipulating Intent and driving the events. There are hints that even Inquisitors when spiking victims use Atium to ensure they hit what they need. Think of it like this, there are ~300 bindpoints on human body. Bindpoints themselves are tiny, small enough that at least 32 fit just on the heart (since that is where powers are typically stolen from). Surface area of heart can be approximated as ~80 cm^2, so single bind point is bounded by 2.5 cm^2 area, that is square with side 1.5 cm in length. Olympic shooting with hand gun from 10 meters, the innermost ring worth 10 points, is larger than that (~3.8 cm^2) by nearly 50%. And even hitting this target is difficult for the very best shooters, in optimal conditions (i.e. stationary target, not in the middle of fight). And again, that is just the square somewhere within bind point should fit, bind points themselves are smaller than that. For not even that high-pressure situations, NYPD has the best hit rate when discharging weapon, and it is only about 30%. And that is hit rate, just hitting the target anywhere on the body. Hitting milimeter sized target is well, impossible to do reliably. For sniper rifles, accuracy is typically referred in MOA (minute of angle), so you can estimate spread (specifically 5 bullets hit circle of given radius). The very best sniper rifles have MOA around 0.5, which translates to spread of ~5 cm from 800 meters, or ~6 mm from 100 meters. Benchrest rifles mounted on specially prepared tables, and calibrated for conditions, can be about twice as good, so the spread would be ~2.5 cm to ~3mm, which is still not good enough. So the very mechanism of sniper rifles is not precise enough to reliably hit target smaller than ~0.5 cm across from 100 meters. TLDR: It is impossible to hit a bindpoint on purpose when shooting, even if the conditions are perfect. Humans are not accurate enough, and the very mechanism of a gun is also not reliable enough. So it is not reliable tactic, unless you can tap massive amount of Fortune, or see future (and have enhanced reflexes) via Atium.

I don't think it was Set's plan. They had a breeding program (Community) so they would have enough subjects for experiments (and as donors), that is why they were kidnapping people from Spook's bloodline. If spiked people could pass on powers, there would no need to kidnap people from Allomantic bloodlines for breeding program, they could just kidnap random people, spike them, and use them. It is possible they were experimenting in that direction, but as far as we know, nothing about passing on powers is ever said, and the kidnapping program and Community make less sense.

Just my 2 cents. 1) In or near functional Elantris, Elantrians are basically unbeatable. Their power is amplified beyond its natural maximum by Elantris itself, so they can do insane things. The healing is quite possibly also put into overdrive by Elantris. And they have all the Investiture they could want. 2) In or near functional Urithiru/Sibling, Radiants are basically unbeatable. SA5 spoilers So I would think battle outside of these two places is the one most interesting. There Elantrians couldn't just autoheal decapitation (as Raoden's hands example shows), and their powers would be at their 'natural' strength, not amplified by Elantris. In that situation, while Elantrian can do anything Radiant can do, they probably don't have all such Aonic programs pre-prepared, and they would not be as skilled as Radiant. Elantrians are generalists, with few specializations, so Radiant will be superior in their specialization (if more limited). E.g. Windrunner will fly better than Elantrian, Elsecaller will be more skilled in Soulcasting etc. Best bet is to close the distance and use Shardblade. However, teleportation makes it difficult, so covering up approach, or somehow preventing Elantrian from teleporting would be crucial. Out of the box strategy: Radiant uses surges to damage topography near Elantris, rendering Elantrians (at least those on Sel, possibly all in Physical Realm) Hoed.

I think it is the final hypothesis. Spikes staple foreign spiritweb onto recipients spiritweb, but just like organ grafts don't change DNA, I don't think spikes change sDNA to any large degree. There must be some sDNA change, considering the WoBs about Inquisitors procreating, but it clearly isn't too large. So Koloss having a child won't pass anything in spikes to their children, so they simply cannot be born full-blown Koloss. Sazed then most likely tweaked their sDNA (and DNA too) so that some of those traits sourced from spikes now are part of their sDNA, and hence can be passed along. But to become full Koloss, they still require spikes.

That would be plausible I think, though could possibly result in weaker spikes (e.g. if you spike just muscle group you would get proportionally less strength than from spiking entire human). How it would work for e.g. senses that rely both on the sensory apparatus and on brain to process is an interesting question. Though there is also the issue of physical deformation, which would probably be far worse than if you are spiking entire living organism (provided that those deformations are truly unavoidable).

Though that was only after Sazed altered Koloss to be a breeding race, it is possible that nature of Koloss blooded has nothing to do with Hemalurgy, and is only result of Sazed's alterations.

While I think it would be possible, there would be very little of any attribute to steal something from cell culture. There would be basically nothing from Cognitive quadrant, next to nothing from Spiritual (I doubt that cell culture Identity/Connection/Investiture/destiny would be in any way useful or relevant). Physical quadrant would also give you nothing, not much physical strength in cell culture and no senses to speak of. And of course spikes that steal Invested powers would do nothing at all. So possible yes, useful no. Now that would be more interesting. You could probably use it to create more careful Hemalurgic constructs, since you would be starting with basically blank slate onto which you are spiking. But you would be limited by amount of spikes, and also by the size of spikes you can fit in. And general issue of course is that you would probably have no idea where any bind points of the cell culture are, so unless you can figure that out, it will be just trial and error, which as seen from TLR, without Shardic knowledge its basically impossible to create new Hemalurgic constructs.

Hmm, interesting idea, creative and plausible. I personally thought of spiking in the way that the spiritual aspect of the spike literally tears a way piece of spiritweb in SR (made possible through Ruin's Investiture involved). In that way it would not turn kinetic but be literally torn of piece of soul that itself never changed, just its Connection to spiritweb was changed.

It is a possibility, though we also know that Hemalurgy can rearrange physiology to keep them alive. But yeah, it is possible. Fair enough It was interesting discussion, and it will be great once we know more (probably Era 3). It is possible, though to me it sounds more like Sazed liking the effect to something reader would be familiar with. But since we don't know how Blessings are made, it is possible they steal something a bit different than just raw attribute.

Technically she did at the same time as making the bond. The thing that convinced Sibling to bond was 1) Using anti-Tone of Voidlight to alleviate their 'pain' somewhat. 2) Singing Pure Tone of Honor, and starting to harmonize with Sibling. Ah, so you should just give up if enemy has advantage. And no, if enemy has more knowledge you try to get that knowledge. You try to remove the edge. She was slowing her down at the very beginning for several days. Then she was doing her best to hide her research. So Navani does not do that, does not learn how to harmonize Light, as a result cannot help Sibling restore their Connection, and Tower falls. Great, as a result of Navani's actions Coalition lost the war. I am glad you were not in that position. And sure Navani can try to refuse. Then Raboniel either finds someone else to try it with, or more likely, threatens the scientists or Radiants until Navani complies. Navani is prisoner, don't forget that. Ah, free will of prisoner when faced with someone who repeatedly threatened her subordinates and people in her charge. Raboniel read the notes, if there are speculations on making anti-Light, Navani has very little maneuvering room to mislead her. Navani in that very sequence says to Raboniel that she cannot trust her. Raboniel has shown herself to be willing to use violence to achieve her goals. What do you think will happen once Navani refuses, and won't budge? Raboniel will kill her subordinates, first one, then more. Then she can move to start killing Radiants. She never 'jumps at first opportunity', she is simply very aware of her position (prisoner) with no actual power to say no. Not at all. Anti-Light was her primary interest, but she was clearly interest in science of fabrials in general and in Light science as well. It's what she says, and what she thinks throughout the entire book. You mean like she was informing Kaladin? And using the fact she was working with Raboniel to supply Kaladin with crucial equipment without which Kaladin could do exactly nothing? She gave him the glove and the gems with voidspren that can work in Tower. She cannot get that without working with Raboniel. And Kaladin can do neither of the things you propose. It is kinda important that they cannot get message out (so no Chiri Chiri) and that Kaladin barely is able to fight. Can they? Suppresor is not add-on but original part of Sibling. Something could be probably replicated but it would not be as strong. It is explicitly mentioned that the metal and crystals are physical body, so you suggest that Radiants cripple Sibling. And the protection it provides is not 'meager', in case you forget, once Sibling awakens all Fused are powerless (Deepest One get stuck in stone), Odium's influence on Moash is completely negated (so it is enough to block effects of Shard at least to some extent) and in the past was enough to repel Unmade. 'Meager' sure. And pray how is Navani supposed to know that Kaladin will try to kill himself, and Dalinar will Connect him with the soul of his dead brother to help him overcome his trauma so he can swear the Ideal? Seriously mate, this is incredibly weak argument. Kaladin has Adhesion and Reverse Lashing, both weaker than usual. Those are the powers both Navani and Kaladin operate with. Not dream of 4th Oath Kaladin. Not like single Fused broke the formation completly. And not like Raboniel can turn weapons to dust as they touch her. You mean someone who knows that Chiri-Chiri is not in the Tower? And someone who has no way of communicating with the outside world? Nor way to get someone inside the Tower? Unless Navani spontaneously develops Elsecalling, she has no way to get Chiri-Chiri. At least think your arguments through. But can somehow affect the stone as well, otherwise it would not form halls, rooms, moveable doors, etc. Stab them, then pressure differential. Glass daggers for example. Try realigning Stormlight into anti-Voidlight? If in vacuum the Investiture is truly Rhytm-less it should work. So what is the guarantee that the Fused are actually insane, and not Raboniel 'insane'? No, anti-light is objectively more useful than Nightblood, because unlike Nightblood it can be replicated. So there are fewer Radiants then Fused, not spren like you said. because your original point was this : Not Radiants, spren. She knew the plate creates anti-Tone when the user has Intent. You yourself quoted the fact that she was a bit surprised at the fact Raboniel could simply use it. The paragraphs you quoted So no, she did not know that plate creates anti-Tone on its own. She did not know that. She could have assumed it, but there is a bit of a difference between merging and aligning two lights, and blanking one and turning it into its direct opposite. Yeah that is true and completly besides the point. You said she did not even try to hide her research, but she did. Handing over the notes after she knows they will be discovered anyway does not change that. How would that delay umaking of Sibling? Do you think Raboniel would be searching for those notes herself? Her minions search, Raboniel can do whatever, like Unmake Sibling if the node is found (Navani does not know that Raboniel already found it and is waiting to use that knowledge). Don't give them the knowledge they will be looking for? Knowledge Raboniel suspects she posses, and can start using violence to get out of Navani? Don't forget that Raboniel already threatened Navani's scientist, and the Radians. If Navani stops cooperating, Raboniel will start calling in those bargaining chips. I never said it was random, just that she was using it to mask her true research, which she did as the quotes show. And that loss was compensate by gaining the exact same knowledge, by saving the Tower and by awakening Sibling. So again, how is she supposed to hide knowledge of anti-Tone, when she does not know that Fused guards heard her do something new and unnatural? Raboniel knew about something happening, and would not leave the room until she learned what it was. Navani had no way of concealing the knowledge of anti-Tone, because of the effect it has on Fused, effect she did not know about because to her it sounds exactly the same. OK, so she failed in two things. Not bad. And what was she supposed to do regarding the nodes? She knows Fused are searching for them, and there is far more of them. The only fool proof method of protecting the nodes is to get to them first. Both her failures came about because she did not just sit and wait, in situation where sitting and waiting can lose them war. So earlier you critice Navani for trusting Raboniel that she wants to kill Odium, and now you criticize her for figuring it out? And she did something, she was hiding her reaserch from the Fused. As stated multiple times. She was only discovered because of effect no one knew about until it happened.

That is in Kandra, not in humans. Again, Kandra are different species, they are mistwraithes granted sentience. They have different bind points, they react differently to being damage of soul. They are not comparable to humans. Koloss have 4 spikes, and coincidentally they grow to such maximal size that the strength would be about 4x of adult human. It is odd if it is just a coincidence. So far we have seen only 3 examples of humans being spiked with attribute, Koloss and the two kinds of Chimeras. All resulted in great physical deformation. Per WoB that deformation always happens. We don't know that the enhancements is purely magical (like A-Pewter) or more along the lines of Feruchemy (which does cause physical change, at minimum in F-Pewter). Since attributes that can be stolen are from the spiritweb, it is natural to assume that they are the very same attributes Feruchemists stores. And since we see that tapping an attribute results in physical changes, it is natural to assume that adding more of the attribute to the soul with another method will also result in physical changes.

No, they clearly respect her as a scientist. They don't ask her to manage, they ask her for advice on scientific topics. And yeah, when she knows about someone else she points them that way, as any reasonable person would. Does not change the fact that they ask her opinion, specifically. And Navani did not know that until Raboniel played the note, hence Navani could not have known that the plate can create anti-Tone. Edit: And so she had no reason to think the plate itself is dangerous in any way, shape or form. She clearly wanted to test it, she simply did not have the time. And I don't understand how you can't comprehend the simple fact that when notes are explicitly called 'hidden' that means they were hidden. She gave them to her only when they would be found anyway. To say she simply handed over the notes is gross oversimplification. Giving them to Raboniel or not would not have made any difference at that point, only in that Raboniel would have trusted her a bit less. So I simply don't see how handing over the notes is a mistake in any way, because not handing them over leads to the same outcome, only few hours later at best, which ultimately is no difference at all. Not exactly true, it was linked also to changing the Rhythm in general and Navani intentionally lied that she was also experimenting with dampening vibrations. RoW 97: So Navani was using it to also mask her true research. Expected better than what? The only failure she had was loosing control of the how to make anti-Light. But her side still has it, her side managed to defend the Tower, her side managed to bring back Sibling all thanks to Navani. Edit: And I will note that her research into anti-Light was crucial in enabling the victory at the end. It pushed away a bit of Voidlight in Sibling, and it stoped Moash for a moment, who would have otherwise killed Navani before she could bond Sibling. So without her research into anti-Light, Coalition would have lost the Tower. That alone means it was not a mistake. The fact that Fused have access to that knowledge now is regrettable, but it was next to impossible to avoid, considering perceptual and knowledge disparity. If she did not lose the research, she would have perfectly navigated the invasion. And I am certain some people would (rightfully) call her 'Mary Sue'. It is unrealistic to expect everything to go her way, when she is in inherently disadvantageous position. Fair enough. It was kinda fun for me as well, though I admit some lines of reasoning are simply baffling to me.

Ok. No. This is factually not true. If it is, please quote it. Raboniel said that the anti-Light could provide power over gods, which also means over Cultivation, remnants of Honor (since she knows that it is still somewhat active through Dalinar). She never says that she wants power over Odium specifically. The lie was about making enough light, not about the fact that anti-Light can be dangerous, nor about misleading Navani about the goal. As your own quote says. Navani's entire plan is to discover it in secret, the reason it failed is that anti-Tone sounds different to Fused than to humans, something she could not know. Navani saw that she actually has advantage over Raboniel, since she possibly has evidence anti-Light actually can exist, and wanted to exploit that advantage. I can see the argument that she should have waited. Of course she does not know if there will be after, nor if she will even be succesful. You seem to assume that Navani knows she will succeeded, when in-fact she still doubs herself at that point. She does not know she will be successful, so she can experiment freely. Like hiding her research notes (which she did), masking her research by pretending to do other things (which she did), or like hiding her actual research among failures (which she did)? What else she should have done? But what reason she has to burn notes? Seriously, it is just research on anti-Tones at that point, and some speculation, nothing else. So from her perspective it is something that might lead to anti-Light, and the only effect is that it pushes away Voidlight a bit. That is not dangerous discovery at all. Cutting the plate would do exactly nothing to it, it would be trivial to replicate even with the cut. If she could easily recreate it, so could anyone else, especially Fused since the plate makes the exact same physical Tone as the Pure Tone of Odium, it is the Intent when using the plate that renders it anti-Tone. There is no anti-Tone plate, only Tone plate and Intent when using it. So the plate is just plate that makes Pure Tone of Odium, without Intent it is not dangerous, nor difficult to recreate. Again, she does not know she will succeed. The notes were hidden! How can she hide notes from Raboniel, when they are already hidden, the last sentence makes zero sense. And yeah, she could waste a few hours, and the end result would be the same, except Raboniel would trust her less. So, she did the right choice. She did many things to prevent the discovery of her research, I literally listed them for you. Let me list it again She pretended to do other research at the time (thermal effect on Tones). She did not leave the plate with the Tone in the open, she hid it under several different ones. She was hiding the notes from Raboniel (of course as prisoner there are limits to that). The primary reason she was found out was that anti-Tone sounds different to Fused, something she had no way of knowing. Without that, she would continue her research with Fused none the wiser. Yes. Not oversight, failing. She was trying to keep it hidden, she failed, because of effects outside of her knowledge and control (anti-Tone effect on Fused). Many characters in SA fail, like Dalinar with uniting, Kaladin with protecting people, etc. It has nothing to do with lack of experience, very few scientist, especially in pre 20th century era did anything like risk assessment. A lot still don't. Do you blame Einstein for not properly assessing risks and publishing theory that leads to atomic bomb? Do you blame the people who did publish article on chain reaction that they did not consider the risk of setting fire to the atmosphere? If not, then you don't have grounds to blame Navani because they did the same exact thing. Yes, she had no way of having it, no reason to criticize her for that. If anything, that is reason for less criticism since that is what science is researching something you don't have knowledge of. As was Raboniel played by Navani, since Warlight discovery allowed Navani to purge the Tower. If motivation is cause for critcism that is a bit ridiculous. And its not like wanting to prove yourself is bad on its own. Her plan was improvised on the spot. She did not give them that knowledge purposefully, she just tried to leverage the situation to some advantage. Slowing down unmaking is higher priority than continuing research into anti-Light won't you agree? Citation needed that it would take Fused months or years. Fused could simply pay Ghostbloods to obtain the information, they have already initiated contact with them, and Fused can provide Mraize with items he is interested in. And since Coalition is no longer friendly to Ghostbloods, it is actually in their interest to start contact with Fused. That is criticism of writing, not Navani. You mean they change their mind after Navani starts singing Rhythm of the Tower? One that Sibling did not hear since Honor was killed? Loss of which crippled them? That is quite a bit of reason to change their mind. Huh? Working with someone who knows more than you in hopes of stealing that knowledge makes it worse? How? Yes Raboniel does have more knowledge. She teaches Navani a lot. Try re-reading those chapters. No, neither of these happen in the book. Try again. What actually happens is that Navani first makes Warlight with Raboniel, she could not make it on her own. Later she is forced into making anti-Light by Raboniel, she does not hand it over. And you blindly trust Raboniel on that? Don't you criticize Navani for taking Raboniel at her word? So which is it, Raboniel is trustworthy or not? Not true, Raboniel was partially interest in fabrials, even if it was not her main goal. She notes multiple times that modern fabrials are very impressive. Yes it is her motivation, Navani literally says so. Neither of which Navani can achieve, since She cannot go into the pillar room, no human can. So she has no way of breaking the garnets. She has no way of contacting outside of world, much less getting Chiri-Chiri. So they are not easier methods, because they are outright impossible in Navani's position. And if they break the garnets, they will guarantee that Tower will no longer have protection against Odium's forces. It would be smart to try to break them once it is clear they cannot win, but to try earlier is stupid considering the risks and benefits. How is Kaladin to get into the most guarded room in the entire Tower when he has next to no abilities? He is nearly killed in most of his confrontations, and this would be far worse. And he cannot get Chiri Chiri, he has no idea where it is. And yeah, stone cannot stop Shardblade. But godspren in physical form could, which is what Sibling is. Or they could Invest the stone. You need Raysium if you don't have pressure differential. If you do have, Investiture will flow naturally. Or you can have small device that will play Tone of Odium, forcing anti-Voidlight out of the gemstone. There are ways, and they don't rely on extremely rare metal that Odium explicitly does not like to give out. Dead Fused is better than insane Fused. Raboniel was insane for a time and got better, so insanity is not guarantee that Fused is off the board for good. There is only one Nightblood and can be wielded only by Radiant and only for short time. Anti-Light can be wielded by anyone, without any risk to them. Citation needed. Except of course for the fact that per the narrative Navani actually is that smart. Her scientist go to her for advice when stuck. Her engineers go to her for ideas on how to improve desings. So they clearly value her input, and think she is capable of insights they are not. Except of course that he is not correct on that point at all. Hell, Gavilar is wrong on every single character description he makes in prologues! And he is wrong in most of his assumptions too. He is wrong about who sent Szeth and why. He is wrong about Eshonai and her reason for being there, or that Listeners trust them. He is wrong in his assessment of Dalinar. He is wrong about Jasnah and her capabilities. He is wrong about Navani (as stated above). He completely misunderstands Oathpact, and reasoning behind Radiant Oaths. He considers Heralds his peers and does not recongnize them when they stand in front of him even when they talk about Oathpact, binding of BAM! If anyone is dumb its Gavilar. He is vain, over-ambitious man with delusions of grandeur, outright godcomplex, who thinks the worst of everyone around him, and uses that to think better of himself.