AquaRegia

My guess is that @trav is referring to Lezian the Pursuer Defeated One vs. Kaladin. "Glowing mental patient" LOL it's funny because it's true

My feeling (not an expert) is that Kelsier is completely disinterested - and perhaps even psychologically incapable - of worshiping another being as a god. He saw how The Lord Ruler used religious belief to control people's behavior, and decided to make use of it for his own "better" reasons... but he's not religious in any normal sense of the word. He was bored and annoyed by Sazed's persistent attempts to find a religion for him to follow. He's Ascended himself, so he's not impressed by Shard-level power. He's met Leras and Ati personally and immediately sees them for what they are - flawed people with stupid amounts of power, unworthy of worship. He certainly is neither a Survivorist nor a Pathian; I don't think he's capable of religious belief. He does want to do good, but not from any religious motivation. Trying to classify his promise as either "profane or religious" seems awfully black and white to me. He saw Leras as an ally, a crew member, not a deity. Can't he just promise to do his best as part of his own personal ethics? I do think it makes sense that his interest in shaping Survivorism could stem in part from his desire to be a force for good in the Cosmere... but it's his own personal view of what "good" means, not anyone else's.

@Bejardin1250 beat me to it - THE LOPEN, hands down. Hilarious, always having fun, always looking at the bright side of every situation, nothing ever gets him down, and he finds a way to get along with everyone. I'd spend every day with the Lopen! Lift is awesome, I love her... but she would not be as impressed with me. She'd just steal my lunch and find someone more interesting to hang around with. My second choice would be Axies the Collector. He doesn't take life too seriously... and I bet he knows some really cool Roshar history and trivia.

I had no idea this was even a question people were still working through. Brandon has made it abundantly clear, ever since the very first mention of the Sibling, that they have no gender. (The Stormfather, to Dalinar: "you have hurt them enough.") If both the author and the character have an obvious preference, does it make sense for readers to decide otherwise? I agree it's a bummer that English lacks a clear set of genderless pronouns. I think "them" / "they" / "their" (singular) is the least problematic option; referring to people as "it" leaves a bad taste IMO. As Sir Terry Pratchett observed, evil stems from treating people as objects. I feel it likely that this will become the accepted solution going forward - I have several nonbinary friends who prefer "they" to "he or "she". But as a grammar pedant, I certainly do understand the pain of the singular "they"!

Just wait until Gavilar shows up in book 5... he was definitely onto something new. Kholin : Stormlight :: Skywalker : Star Wars LOL

I'm very slightly grumpy about EVERYONE becoming Radiant. When there were literally only three or four people on the entire planet we knew were Radiants, it was special and superhero-y. It was IMPORTANT. But now that we're well down the road of every major and minor character (except Adolin, of course) bonding a spren, it's been... cheapened somehow. Like Syndrome said - "when everyone is super, no one will be."

I find the evolution of the relationship between Wax and Steris over the three novels to be amazingly touching, beautiful and completely realistic. It's absolutely possible, if you remain open to learning more about someone (and yourself), to come to love and appreciate them in entirely new ways. I've had similar experiences in my relationships, and it's one of the many reasons I adore reading these books. I'm also reminded of the scene on the train to New Seran, when Wax finds that Steris is reading an instruction manual about *ahem* "the birds and the bees". Both hilarious and precious. Given the French language inspiration for character and place names in MB, I guess a soft "C" (followed by "E") unfortunately makes more sense.

We have no way of knowing Gavilar wasn't Invested when he died... and plenty of clues that he might have been, multiple different ways. The Stormfather is definitely one good possibility. Chumming about with Heralds is another. How does he know about Shadesmar? About Thaidakar and Worldhopping? How did he get Anti-Voidlight spheres? He tells Navani EXPLICITLY that he's doing things she can't even imagine, and that he's seeking immortality. If you read that other topic I posted a link to, it's discussed pretty thoroughly, so I won't rehash all the details here. I accept the possibility that this idea may be wrong. But I do NOT think there is any evidence disproving it at this point, and there's LOTS of evidence to support it. I'm betting one RoW meal that Gavilar comes back in book 5.

Did you really just say "no foreshadowing"? Oh, I see, the Star Wars example had none, agreed. Brandon has given us TONS of foreshadowing regarding Gavilar. Given his large role in both Dalinar's and Eshonai/Venli's flashbacks, not to mention every single novel's prologue, I feel we know him plenty well enough for him to be a potent, satisfying threat in book 5. While it's possible Gavilar is a back half character... I think it unlikely. He's been set up as the perfect opponent for Dalinar and Navani (just imagine the emotional baggage!), and I think both of their arcs will be completed in the front five. Odium choosing Gavilar as his Champion in the contest is the high-percentage bet, in my mind.

Interesting, I always head-pronounced Cett as a hard C, like "Kett". If it's a soft C - "Sett" - that WOULD really confuse listeners with regard to The Set. The party scene in BoM where Steris drinks ipecac (which of course she always carries, just in case of poisoning) and projectile vomits everywhere. It will always make me laugh out loud, even the 7000th time I read it. MeLaan is also awesome.

If not, planetary systems and galaxies would be problematic indeed. I used to hear this question a lot when I taught high school, and I honestly don't understand where it comes from. Why do so many people think gravity is somehow caused by AIR? Of course, there are still people who honestly think the earth is flat, so...

I agree with @rosharian_cat - the result of the Contest will likely be death for Dalinar (hopefully a clean and honorable one), ugly for the coalition, and messy for everyone, singers included. If everything settles down to peace and prosperity, what conflict will be left to write five more books about? This is NOT a HoA-AoL situation. Brandon knows, as well as anyone on this spinning ball, that valor, heroism, courage, sacrifice - all these ideals we revere - can only happen in the midst of strife and suffering. Bet your brightest sphere there will be suffering galore... enough to fuel five more books. My guess is that Gavinor will be an important character in the back five, NOT in the Contest of Champions. The obvious choice for Odium's Champion is GAVILAR. If Gavilar does NOT return to play a vital part in the next book, I will eat my copy of Rhythm of War. And it's a hardcover.

I think it does a great disservice to Hoid (and, by extension, to Brandon) to assume Hoid had no objective. It would be completely out of character for Hoid to take such a risk for no good reason. @Leuthie is correct - Hoid tells us exactly what he's doing in his "performance" for Design: the subtle art of misdirection. He definitely wants Odium's FULL attention on him at this particular moment, which is carefully planned to allow someone else to do something without Odium noticing. Could be Design; could be Jasnah; could be Dalinar. There might even be more than one such secret mission. But I'm confident that we will eventually see a very satisfying reason for Hoid to risk his precious metaphorical hide trading pointless insults with Odium there. I'm also confident that once he realizes the significance of the loss of his perfect pitch and infers the removal of some Breaths, Hoid will be able to deduce much of what happened, including the events he no longer directly remembers. He will know, at the very least, that Odium is somehow different than he was. Thus this meeting will serve two important narrative purposes going forward.

Keep in mind that the Recreance was ~2000 years ago. For ~2500 years before that, humans had full-time access to human Radiants, with no Odium or Fused on Roshar. And for thousands of years before THAT, the Oathpact was in effect, with the Heralds themselves leading the forces of Honor during Desolations. It was BEFORE ALL OF THAT (~8000 ya? 10,000? We don't know) that humans and Odium came to Roshar. There is just SO MUCH history here about which we know nothing except the most vague of outlines.

I completely agree with the consensus here that Venli is a very interesting and realistic character. She is often frustrating and even painful to read... but her motivations, struggles and thoughts are unquestionably authentic and believable. I'd like to have a conversation about this: If Brandon DID say that, well, I hesitate to say "he's wrong", but I need to be shown how he's right. For one thing, the term "singer culture" means about as much as the term "human culture". There isn't just one; this is an entire race of people, and they've had different cultures in different places at different times. Here's what I feel like I personally know, after 4500+ pages, about "singer culture": Recreance (2000 years ago) - present, most singers were "parshmen". Trapped in slaveform, they had no culture of their own, only whatever human culture they were enslaved in. The listeners eked out a bare survival in and around the shattered plains, spending most of those years trapped in dullform or workform. We know they passed down songs to record what they knew, and lived in a loose association of tribal "family" groups. We had some views, through Eshonai and Venli, of the very end of this period, but we also know things were changing quite rapidly at the end. Aharietiam (4500 ya) - Recreance, I know almost nothing. For 2500 years, singers and humans coexisted somehow, with Radiants but no Desolations. What did singer culture look like? I sure don't feel like Brandon has "revealed most of it". Pre-Aharietiam, I assume the singers were more or less united under the banner of Odium and led by the Fused during Desolations, and we see in RoW some glimpses of what the Fused consider "singer culture"... but that accounts for only a few years here and there out of many thousands. What did singer life look like between Desolations? I assert that there is an AWFUL LOT we don't know.

It's an interesting question, which reminds me of all the "patterns in the Shattered Plains", "what could have caused this", and cymatics foreshadowing from the Way of Kings. It sure seems like Brandon was laying the groundwork for SOMETHING... and knowing him, it will be more epic than even we can guess.

I'm really happy to hear that it was still an engaging - and even surprising - experience. Having had big reveals in OTHER media spoiled for me (e.g., The Mandalorian; thanks a lot, Facebook), nothing would make me sad like knowing a first-time reader missed out on a satisfying Sanderson revelation. The way he builds layers of mystery within other layers is just so terrific, I want EVERYONE to have that same full enjoyment. It's great to hear that even "out of order", the wonder and excitement is still there. Thanks for sharing!

Bah! Airsick lowlander. Not how this thing is done. Most importantly, what was it like to read Era 1, already knowing how lots of things would end up? Seems AWFULLY spoilery.

@Bejardin1250 nailed it. Before the climax of Oathbringer, Odium had set Dalinar up to become his champion, and both Dalinar and Renarin realized it. But the intervention of Cultivation - pruning his painful memories, and allowing them to return gradually - prevented that outcome. I think the Adolin quote is just a toss-in mention of Rosharan astrology.

I'm so jealous that I can never again read Alloy of Law for the first time LOL There are so many juicy surprises in there... please keep us updated!

The Coppermind SA page says 455,891. You are quite welcome.

Aha - I just read this. During the Last Desolation (~4500 y ago), the Last Legion became the listeners with a rejection of Odium, the Fused, and Forms of Power; this was naturally seen by all other singers as a betrayal. They CHOSE to remain in dullform, in an attempt to hide from their "terrible gods". After a few generations of dullform, there would be no listeners left who knew of the other forms...except through the songs passed down from parent to child. This, then, begins the long sleep. During the False Desolation (~2000 y ago), BAM "managed to Connect with the vast majority of singers -- all except those who would become the listeners." Then BAM is imprisoned, and all the singers Connected to her become locked into slaveform. This EXCLUDES the listeners, who were explicitly NOT Connected to BAM. Over thousands of years, the listeners had eventually learned how to regain workform and others, gradually ending the long sleep.

Just reread RoW ch. 48, in which Eshonai refers to "things that the listeners had forgotten during the long sleep, the time they'd spent wearing dullform, memorizing songs by sheer force of will." I'm sure this isn't the first mention of the listeners' time without forms... but it didn't match my previous impressions of the history of the listeners vs. the singers as a whole. What else do we know about this? Why and how did this one group of singers regain the ability, seemingly lost to others, to take different forms? What does the timeline look like? With only paper copies of the novels, it would be a PhD project to find and compare all the other references, so I invoke the power of the 17th Shard to do it for me!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That made my day. I might start referring to people I disdain as "serpentard". I forgot to mention the most amazing example of fiction translation I have personally read: the works of Polish SF author Stanislaw Lem. Absurd, heartfelt, layered, hilarious, science-loving, and surreal, i highly recommend him to anybody who finds that description intriguing. In one short story from the collection The Cyberiad, a character invents an Electronic Bard, ostensibly capable of creating the perfect poem for any subject. His friend challenges the robot with an increasingly ridiculous series of topics and constraints, one of which is "...a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter 's'!" Which the Bard (and Lem, in Polish) promptly delivers. Then some poor translator had to do it AGAIN, in English. Amazing.

Welcome! Have you read all of Sanderson's work? If not, what have you still to look forward to? If so, which are your favorites?