Trusk'our

Revisiting this topic, I have new evidence that suggests that my original proposal is incorrect. We know that it is possible to generate a Resonance by using a more external source of Investiture, such as the Bands of Mourning. This makes me waver on my original stance, since it relies more on the powers being plugged into your Spiritweb more and more via Connections formed over time, which in turn has them act more like an attribute on top of being a power. Instead, seeing that external, removable sources can produce a Resonance, I now think that Resonances most likely are slight changes to one's Connection and possibly Investiture. This would in some ways be comparable to Savantism, but more like bodybuilding or training that boosts and tweaks you (your Spiritweb) over time, while Savantism is more forceful and damaging, like how steroids can greatly improve performance, but cause collateral damage screw up your natural functions. Hemalurgy might specifically be opposed to Resonances since it counts as a form of constructive interference, while Savantism is acceptable because it's more a more extreme, hostile takeover of the Spiritweb, a more destructive change. So, that changes a number of things, especially about the possibility of utilizing F-duralumin to affect Resonances, but perhaps if this idea holds true, other interesting abilities might prove possible. For example, if one were to use a medallion to use two or three powers, perhaps you'd develop a new Resonance through that method. Any other insights?

Yup, that about sums it up. Though, if you can create a Mistborn out of raw Dor and the right program, I see little to prevent Breath (which can re-key itself on demand) from doing so via spikes.

If I'm understanding your idea correctly, I think I agreed: the bindpoints on a person's body are "filter" that the physical realm imposes on the Spiritweb, just like how the brain is a physical realm filter for the cognitive aspect (and thus why covering your head with aluminum is enough to block Emotional Allomancy). This is why location is so important to Hemalurgy. It's just a way the physical realm interacts with the spiritual. I would add that I think the damage caused to a spike's recipient isn't entirely the result of extra or misaligned Spiritweb fragments. Hemalurgy needs a way to enter the soul, to bridge the gap between the spike's Spiritweb and the recipient's. The spike breaks open a crack to let its Investiture in, which I think cannot truly be stopped as long as the spike is in place, no matter how finely cut the Spiritweb was. I certainly think this bridge can be reduced with more precision and better Intent, and the excess cracks potentially plugged with extra Investiture through certain means, but for the spike to function it fundamentally requires a crack.

Lerasium functions by editing your Spiritweb, grafting on extra Connections and Investiture. In its base form, it Invests you with Preservation's power, making you an Allomancer. This is a side-effect apparently, and while a pre-existing Allomancer burning it would have their base Allomancy added onto, they would also see some other result. Burning pieces of Lerasium alloyed differently to grant different powers won't remove the previous powers. i.e. you can become an Allomancer capable of burning two, three, four, or any number of metals you choose so long as you burn the right Lerasium alloys. It's an add on, not an overwrite, in some ways comparable to Hemalurgic spikes. For what it's worth, I think Allomancy essentially functions by having a portion of Preservation's Investiture within the Allomancer bond the Shard of Preservation by Snapping. This bond is the Connection that Lerasium forges, and with the additional Innate Investiture present in the Spiritweb, programmed with Allomancy's Intent, the Allomancer can trade metals for kinetic Investiture like a strange form of the Luhel bond. Feruchemists aren't seen Snapping, probably because they don't need a bond to an external source of Investiture. They just use their own soul, mind, and body. I suspect the reason some of the Set's experimental spikes were able to function, albeit erratically, was because they did, technically, have some programmed function. What kind of Allomancer you'll be is part of what your born, with, not what you get after Snapping, so that should still be susceptible to spiking. The lack of sufficient bonding from Snapping, Identity contamination separating the charges, and various powers stolen with incorrect metals probably prevented this from working well though. Identity decay or repeated Intent from the spike bearers may have allowed a few functional powers to eventually emerge, but having so many separate powers in one vessel with no coordination probably led to them being drowned out eventually, like how Resonances dissappear with too many sources, or medallions being unable bear more than a few powers at once. This is all speculation though, so please don't take it as being set in steel. That's a fair takeaway. I think it's still fairly plausible, as we know Breath is more malleable than most manifestations of Investiture. Mostly you just need a way to shape it right, to program it, I think. And what better way to do that than Commanding it to replicate the narrowly defined functions of a pre-existing slice of Spiritweb contained within a spike? What's more, the spike does have some semblance of life already. It contains a functional piece of Spiritweb, a piece of life if you will, which gives the Breath a pattern to follow. It's still metal, which makes the process much harder, and it's Investiture would resist Awakening, but Hemalurgic spikes aren’t terribly Invested to begin with, at least not in most circumstances. The benefits, if they do indeed boost Allomancy, would probably be worth the cost, at least as I see it.

My thinking is more along the lines of using Breath to Awaken a Hemalurgic spike. Give the Breath the Command to boost the other Investiture's abilities. Given that Vivenna can stuff around 600 Breaths in a shawl, charging a single Inquisitor-sized spike with a few hundred BEUs should be within the realm of plausibility. If a Lerasium Mistborn's entire repertoire of powers is indeed lesser than the First Heightening, gaining Lord Ruler levels of Allomancy or beyond should be easy compared to the power it would yeild. Even just one spike with one power would be extremely impressive if this were possible, I would think. Which is a big part of why I suspect Metalborn powers must require a larger level of Investiture to function: it's just too easy to supercharge otherwise. This is just my current reasoning on the matter, so perhaps this will be proven incorrect as we get more books.

Gonna be honest, I don't really hate his character. I did right after Elhokar died, but that faded rather quickly. Moash is mostly a forgettable side character for me, unfortunately. That said, I do much prefer the idea of redemption for anybody, even very despicable people (one of my personal favorite fantasies is where the big bad evil guy has a change of heart and uses their powers for good), but I accept that it requires action on the part of the transgressor for true, sustainable change. Sad as it is, that's less likely to occur than we usually want, in reality. So, I'm in the field of wanting a redemption arc, but so long as it's written well I'd be fine with him staying set in his ways and facing all the consequences of his actions (though the tone of the Stormlight Archive makes me highly doubt the latter).

Because it while it is temporary, it takes about 300 years for the geodes to reform and produce Atium again after being destroyed. Plus, I don't know how likely it is that Atium pre-formed would still be there. Prisoners trying to collect it would pull it out of the geodes for survival, so very little (if any) would be left behind after the crystals broke.

I'm wondering, I want to get the Stormlight RPG Handbook and World Guide, and later all three Mistborn RPG books. Would it be more cost-effective to wait for the to come out and buy individually, or should I still sign up?

I wonder if the Command wasn't the issue so much as an imprecise Intent. Commands are merely there to focus the Intent so the Investiture can more precisely carry it out. Intent in this case would entail Vasher having lots more experience, being able to more accurately outline his desires for Nightblood in his own head before even considering Awakening the blade. That's my current concensus, at least.

Hmm, consuming Investiture from living beings makes the most sense because Nightblood is directed by its weilder, but as for being hungry for random floating Investiture like Stormlight, it could just be for fuel. Szeth was able to weild Nightblood safely with infused spheres on his person even before becoming a Skybreaker (or at least being Invested as one), so I suspect this feeding is just as a mechanism to power the sword's attack on living things (we even see in Warbreaker that when Vasher drops Nightblood the blade can no longer cause great damage to its environment. It requires a source of Investiture to power its greatest destructive feats, whether that be from ambient Investiture or its weilder's soul). Just some thoughts, at least.

My current two clips is that Nightblood's consumption of Investiture is merely a method of destroying. He obliterates what something was before, turning it into something new. In this case using it to amplify his own Command, to destroy more as it grows in power. This could also be compared to Hemalurgic spikes and their consumption of Investiture. Taking someone else's Investiture, destroying them in a fashion to repurpose their abilities. Ruin does have at least some ties to Nightblood (especially given the color of Nightblood's Investiture and Command), so the similarities between it and Hemalurgy may not be too far fetched, where Nightblood's abilities perhaps grew from a similar starting point as Hemalurgy itself.

I would add that Cryptics have, if not access to Rhythms, a strong association with them, and that it is confirmed that the Rhythms are a result of a type of Connection to a SR phenomenon. It could be that you can't have physical and cognitive Rhythms, as they're more of a SR thing. Cognitive Intent and physical vibrations may help Connect to them, but I suspect that’s a subtle distinction. Good thoughts overall.

Interesting. Personally, I loved his character. One of my favorites, honestly. But of course this is also coming from one of the few people who dislikes Jasnah, so maybe take my opinion with a pinch of copper

I meant more along the lines of him lying about it to them like with the Ghostbloods. Then he could fake his way to religious status amongst them if needed (especially if he could someday regain his powers as he wishes). Possibly. The cubes in TLM couldn't hold a charge for super long though (maybe a day or so if I recall), so I'm a bit skeptical. We don't know exactly how rare they are, so maybe they do just have a Coinshot or Lurcher on each larger vessel. Perhaps since Allomancers are only needed to kickstart the initial process so the Harmonium can pick it up they can be at ports for airships. Sort of like a car battery that dies whenever turned off and needs to be jumpstarted manually.

That and probably Kelsier's influence. Convincing a continent of people to revere Metalborn is extremely convenient when you're Mistborn, yes? It's also possible that their concept of divinity in Metalborn stems from Kelsier informing them of Preservation putting more of himself in such individuals. As such, they carry pieces of divinity within.

True, that's likely the case. Otherwise, you'd probably have people who already discovered Hemalurgic Fabrials already. Perhaps an Awakened device could utilize Hemalurgic spikes, swapping them out as needed. Or, maybe you slap a power onto a pre-existing lesser Spren in Shadesmar, capture it in a gemstone, then make a Fabrial that harnesses its new power.

Or maybe use a Hemalurgic spike in place of the Spren. Then you could harness the Hemalurgic power, but without injuring your own Spiritweb.

You make a good argument for Alendi. And you're right, there's lots of wiggle room there. What about the southern continent of Scadrial though? They've developed airships that rely on Steelpushing to run their propulsion, and Allik immediately knows how to use a primer cube to harness Wax's Allomancy in BoM. I strongly believe this points to Allomancy existing amongst the southern Scadrians (and their airships' Allomancy not solely being a result of the Excisors or medallion tech, but actual Allomancers priming the Harmonium), who as far as we know have no Lerasium genes. There could have been other shenanigans going on (the Mists could have boosted them offscreen), but until further evidence is available I believe the evidence suggests Allomancy can naturally occur from just being Scadrian. It's just, very, very unlikely (and weak) without artificial aid.

All Scadrians have some small potential to Snap and manifest Allomancy (except perhaps for Feruchemists without Lerasium or Lerasium ancestry, as the two Metallic Arts genes split and further weaken each other). It's just very rare in its natural form, so it was likely overlooked in the Final Empire. Alendi was a Seeker before Lerasium was discovered, and the southern Scadrians do have Allomancy despite having no Lerasium genes, though it's a very rare, weak version. My thinking is that Lerasium's effects on Allomancy is comparable to how Ruin pushed on the fabric of Scadrial pre Catacendre, bolstering Hemalurgy, just using a more indirect route.

(We're beginning to move toward Cosmere-wide stuff, but I'll try to refrain from spoilers) If I understand you correctly, this seems to be the case from what I know, yes. Being born on a Shardworld will always grant you an extra level of Innate Investiture associated with that Shard, though extra steps usually need to be taken to cultivate, access, or enhance that power, like Snapping in Allomancy. The steps necessary to do so correspond to the Intent of the Shard in question. However, Lerasium boosted Allomancy is more of an artificial effort directly made by the Vessel of Preservation, so it's a bit weird- Allomancers born with its power have spiritual DNA that draws more Investiture from Preservation, though this goes against the level of natural Connection granted by simply being born on a Shardworld (which may be part of why this Investiture advantage weakens over generations). As a tangent, natural Allomancy is much weaker, but I think if a population of humans were to move to Scadrial and live through a few generations they'd start seeing a development of weak Allomancy, even though it's considered purely genetic (I reason this because a significant portion of spiritual DNA's roll is played by Connection, so even if not created by Preservation or descendant of one, simply being associated with Preservation by being born on Scadrial may suffice like with any other Shardworld).

Glad I could be useful. I think it's most likely that this extra Investiture available in naturally occurring Allomancy, Feruchemy, and even Hemalurgy does come from the Shards Ruin and Preservation, but not from power directly available to the Vessels. We know the Shard has virtually limitless power, but Vessels have a finite mind, and thus finite access. There are even cases where Vessels can find Investiture associated with their Intent on other worlds and upon discovery tweak it to their liking. General Cosmere spoilers: This would also explain why naturally occurring Allomancy didn't seem to continue to unbalance the two Shards in Era 1 (at least this is how I see it). Otherwise, the more Scadrians born or Allomancers burning metals should have continued to weaken Preservation as a larger portion of that Shard was locked up in their Spiritwebs or temporarily expended like Ruin's lost Investiture in Atium.

Fair point. Counterpoint: lots of very competent and trigger-happy bodyguards. But in all seriousness, I don't know if that would be a significant issue. Sure, their Breath makes them a target, but having bodyguards would act as an equal deterrent.

There were no WoBs I could find on this specific subject, but if an Invested person were to collect Breath, would they potentially begin to manifest a new Resonance? For example, let's say some Scadrian Metalborn mercenaries Worldhop over to Nalthis and use their powers to become a successful troop. They excel, particularly with no competing Metalborn, and get quite wealthy. They proceed to hoard Breath. There's definitely some reasoning for it going either way, but I personally think it's possible for the mercenaries to start manifesting new Resonances. Biochromatic Breaths are considered closer to raw Investiture than things like Allomantic or Feruchemical powers (as Breath is specifically proposed to be a target for H-nicrosil). However, using Breath for Awakening requires it to become kinetic and take a more focused function, which I think might make it closer to a power in terms of Resonance production. Maybe using certain Commands could change the type of Resonance. Self-Awakening might also affect Resonance potential, depending on its versatility. It could also be that just having the Breath is enough, and holding it while using another power will Connect the two sources over time, generating a Resonance. All in all, I'm quite curious to hear what others think of this.

Metals don't have to be in the stomach to be burnable, just be in the body.